Reading Greens

[leezer99]

Every putt is straight if you hit it hard enough. Reading greens is not the issue, speed is the issue. 

[heavy_hitter]

52 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

Every putt is straight if you hit it hard enough. Reading greens is not the issue, speed is the issue. 

Agree.  If you don't hit the correct speed it doesn't matter how you read it.  In the majority of Juniors it is 100% a speed issue, not a green reading issue.  What is always common in good putter is that their speed is phenomenal.  Stroke/Technique is also important in speed control.  If they aren't hitting the center of the face they will miss a lot of putts.  There are so many factors and generally green reading is the last thing to look at in terms of putting.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

Agree.  If you don't hit the correct speed it doesn't matter how you read it.  In the majority of Juniors it is 100% a speed issue, not a green reading issue.  What is always common in good putter is that their speed is phenomenal.  Stroke/Technique is also important in speed control.  If they aren't hitting the center of the face they will miss a lot of putts.  There are so many factors and generally green reading is the last thing to look at in terms of putting.

agree 100% to many parents will saw off a Scotty for their 8 yo.  The sweet spot on a that blade is about the size of  a dime.  Alot more should find a putter with a higher MOI.

[tiger1873]

Another thing to keep in mind is what kind of greens are you putting on.   You can be the best green reader in the world and have the correct speed but the greens are in poor shape and do not roll true you will not make a lot putts.

 

A lot junior tournaments are on what I call sub standard greens. You could take the best putters on the PGA put them on the same courses and conditions that juniors play and they will not make a lot putt's they normally would make on tour.  If the greens do not roll true you are screwed.

 

Most juniors I see just lag putt everything and hope luck happens once in a while.  That's why you see kids who score great at dump course all of sudden get very high scores when they play real greens at an AJGA event. The same thing happens to kids who play nice courses go a local tournament that has bad greens which makes their scores go way up because they can't make a 6 ft putt.

Edited July 1, 2021 by tiger1873

[heavy_hitter]

5 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

Another thing to keep in mind is what kind of greens are you putting on.   You can be the best green reader in the world and have the correct speed but the greens are in poor shape and do not roll true you will not make a lot putts.

 

A lot junior tournaments are on what I call sub standard greens. You could take the best putters on the PGA put them on the same courses and conditions that juniors play and they will not make a lot putt's they normally would make on tour.  If the greens do not roll true you are screwed.

 

Most juniors I see just lag putt everything and hope luck happens once in a while.  That's why you see kids who score great at dump course all of sudden get very high scores when they play real greens at an AJGA event. The same thing happens to kids who play nice courses go a local tournament that has bad greens which makes their scores go way up because they can't make a 6 ft putt.

AJGA plays a lot of crap holes.  I don't agree with this argument at all.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

5 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

Another thing to keep in mind is what kind of greens are you putting on.   You can be the best green reader in the world and have the correct speed but the greens are in poor shape and do not roll true you will not make a lot putts.

 

A lot junior tournaments are on what I call sub standard greens. You could take the best putters on the PGA put them on the same courses and conditions that juniors play and they will not make a lot putt's they normally would make on tour.  If the greens do not roll true you are screwed.

 

Most juniors I see just lag putt everything and hope luck happens once in a while.  That's why you see kids who score great at dump course all of sudden get very high scores when they play real greens at an AJGA event. The same thing happens to kids who play nice courses go a local tournament that has bad greens which makes their scores go way up because they can't make a 6 ft putt.

Excuse #1 :  I would have shot 68, but the greens sucked. 

 

So is excuse 2 I am used to putting on crappy greens?  These greens are in to good of shape.

[Fairway14]

On 6/23/2021 at 12:38 PM, RmoorePE said:

Youngest daughter continues to work on her golf game. Her ball striking everything from Driver through putter has gotten much better over the past year. Seems to be really enjoying it, and is having minor success (no medals yet but placing 2nd through 4th) in the few easy tournaments she has played.

 

Tried her first WGJA event last weekend and it is becoming apparent that her green reading needs a lot of help.

 

I suggest encouraging her to use her approach to the green to become aware of its general slope (s). For example, while walking to the green she can see its high point,  the prevailing tilt and slope of the entire green etc... This "big picture"  is helpful to reading any length putt.

[kekoa]

On 6/24/2021 at 6:22 AM, heavy_hitter said:

 

Personally, I think there are parts of Aim Point that are important.  Learning to use your feet being the most important.  I don't buy into Aim Point as a hole.  Aim Point really slows down rounds and can't stand when my kid is partnered with someone using it.  The funny part is, I have never seen a great putter use the full routine.

Yup, the best is when a kid using aimpoint tramples all over their own line as well as their playing partners trying to feel the slope of the green. 

[heavy_hitter]

19 minutes ago, kekoa said:

Yup, the best is when a kid using aimpoint tramples all over their own line as well as their playing partners trying to feel the slope of the green. 

Oh yeah...  I was going to mention that as well.  It is brutal.

[tiger1873]

2 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

Excuse #1 :  I would have shot 68, but the greens sucked. 

 

So is excuse 2 I am used to putting on crappy greens?  These greens are in to good of shape.

some golf courses have greens that are unplayable and tours still play them. 
 

Can you play it sure of course you can but your not going to making as many putts no matter how much you practice.

 

pga tournaments are on greens that usually very good and they do not play courses like below.

 

if you are playing and see a practice greens like this tournament don’t expect much.

Edited July 1, 2021 by tiger1873

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

On 7/1/2021 at 4:10 PM, tiger1873 said:

some golf courses have greens that are unplayable and tours still play them. 
 

Can you play it sure of course you can but your not going to making as many putts no matter how much you practice.

 

pga tournaments are on greens that usually very good and they do not play courses like below.

 

if you are playing and see a practice greens like this tournament don’t expect much.

Just saying some kids play and score.  Others wait for Mom and Dad to bail them out with excuses.

[RmoorePE]

So we went out with a digital level and tried to do some Aim Point type training. Nothing regimented or by the book. I just thought my daughter could try using her feet a little bit to help with reads and that the confidence in the shape of the putt, would help the speed and stroke as well. (Last tournament on the front she hit 8/9 greens and had 5!! three putts.

 

She is a mathematical/system type of kid and the light bulb came on almost instantly. She loved it.

 

At first we just had her stand on different lines and guess the slope, then check it with the level. She had fun doing this, and got pretty good at it quickly. Then we played around the course and I set up 2 or 3 balls on every green and had her read, putt and then we would check her read after the putt using the level. We played 5 holes after that just for fun and her lag putting was great and she made a beautiful 20' uphill birdie and stated that her feet read it different than her eyes.

 

She starts a 2 day tournament today and she is going to use the system (until she gets nervous and rushes), I will follow up with results.

 

 

[Bizzle80]

On 7/1/2021 at 5:17 AM, tiger1873 said:

Another thing to keep in mind is what kind of greens are you putting on.   You can be the best green reader in the world and have the correct speed but the greens are in poor shape and do not roll true you will not make a lot putts.

 

A lot junior tournaments are on what I call sub standard greens. You could take the best putters on the PGA put them on the same courses and conditions that juniors play and they will not make a lot putt's they normally would make on tour.  If the greens do not roll true you are screwed.

 

Most juniors I see just lag putt everything and hope luck happens once in a while.  That's why you see kids who score great at dump course all of sudden get very high scores when they play real greens at an AJGA event. The same thing happens to kids who play nice courses go a local tournament that has bad greens which makes their scores go way up because they can't make a 6 ft putt.

 

 

This! My daughter just started USK tournaments which she's loved but has been three jacking putts something terrible. Our home club - pretty much only place she's played - has lighting fast greens and she almost never 3 putts them. Trying to adjust to slow muni courses that host the USK events has been brutal for her. She is great at picking lines and reading breaks but leaving 15' putts halfway... We have started practicing putting at a local muni just so she can get used to playing diff speeds. 

 

I am a big fan of lining up your ball - she does this on her own now and picks great lines...now its all about getting the right speed for her. To me for Juniors (younger ones at least) it seems to be all about speed and 3 putt avoidance by hitting better lags.