Could you become a scratch golfer using only the practice range?

[getitdaily]

21 minutes ago, DShepley said:

100% agree. I've been there, got to a plus for a short while in my late 20s. Those scenarios also help you hold onto the mindset that you should be better when you find yourself mid-40s with kids and only play a couple times per week. You know, you feel like you have zero game but still manage to keep the index sub 5.  My whole point is that the scoring barriers are real and no amount of range practice makes them go away. It's similar for all the barriers, 100, 90, 80, 70 but....it's progressively harder to do because the lower you go, the fewer mistakes you can make.

Yep. I remember the barrier to break par and then 70. You get really comfortable shooting 73-75 and you basically mentally sabotage rounds because "I'm supposed to shoot 73-75". It's very similar to breaking the x0 barriers. But par and 70 are much harder. 

 

Then you start breaking par and 70 and then the mental barrier is expecting it and trying too hard. 

[isaacbm]

I didn’t read the whole thread. I have run into a few Korean and Japanese players who were never on a golf course even one time for multiple years of hitting balls. As soon as they moved to North America and started golfing they were scratch within a couple of months. Many players in places like Japan only have access to driving ranges. 
some of these people have the most unbelievably beautiful golf swings but they still have to learn to play.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

20 hours ago, DShepley said:

I don't agree.  Even the pros find themselves confronted with mental barriers in given situations like for instance trying to close out a win for the first time.  They are the VERY BEST players in the world, like 10 strokes on average per round better than probably the best country club player any of us know and they feel it.  So to think that an amateur who has a goal to get to scratch isn't going to feel pressure when they are near it seems a silly thought to me.

 

Not a very good comparison.

 

Pros are competing for as little as a single stroke per round.

 

Scratch can make mistakes. Typically, par 5 are relatively easy birdie opportunities. Short par 4 are also opportunities to birdie. That’s roughly 6 opportunities to shoot lower.

 

I do agree shooting 7 over for me is quite relaxed, while attempting to shooting even would be a bit more “pressure”, but the shot I make doesn’t change. It’s the same stroke and same feeling without any more or less pressure.

[DShepley]

3 hours ago, Lincoln_Arcadia said:

 

Not a very good comparison.

 

Pros are competing for as little as a single stroke per round.

 

Scratch can make mistakes. Typically, par 5 are relatively easy birdie opportunities. Short par 4 are also opportunities to birdie. That’s roughly 6 opportunities to shoot lower.

 

I do agree shooting 7 over for me is quite relaxed, while attempting to shooting even would be a bit more “pressure”, but the shot I make doesn’t change. It’s the same stroke and same feeling without any more or less pressure.

I don't agree.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

42 minutes ago, DShepley said:

I don't agree.

Right, so not everyone is the same. We’re all different. What works or doesn’t work for one person doesn’t reflect upon others.

[RichieHunt]

As a scratch golfer, I could not get to scratch if I basically only practiced.  And I would not be able to maintain my scratch handicap if all I did was practice.

 

Playing golf provides many things to me that help my game.  For starters, it gives me a feel of the course I'm playing.  As a golf statistician who has done a lot  of research, worked, with Tour pros, etc. I use Google Earth and data to help provide strategy before rounds.  But there are too many times where a golfer actually needs to get on the course and to see how the hole plays.  For instance, the 9th hole at my course everything appears that you have more room to the left even with OB to the left coming into play even when looking on Google Earth.  But in reality you have a less room left and more room right than you think you have because the fairway slopes steeply uphill and to the left.  One can hit a pretty decent shot that starts a little bit to the left and end up either OB or in jail.

 

There's other little things as well such as if you go over the green by a little, you're better off learning to chip with a hybrid or fairway wood.  The greens slope so dramatically from front to back that chipping with a SW is a no-go and the rough is too thick for a putter.  It took me a couple of months of play to figure out that chipping with a hybrid/3-wood was the best play.

 

But there are other factors as well.  For me, if I haven't played in a while, even if I've practice a lot...my equilibrium feels really off when I get on the course.  And I can easily get too caught up in 'playing golf swing instead of playing golf.'  

 

The driving range really doesn't provide us with downhill lies nor the importance of gauging the wind or how to keep your emotions in check after hitting a bad shot vs. not getting too far ahead of yourself after hitting several great shots in a row.

 

For me, I think I'm at my best when for every 2 hours of practice I play 9 holes of golf.  That's at my very absolute best and just not feasible for me these days.   But if I had all of the time and money in the world, that's what I would try to do.

 

 

 

RH

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

 

14 minutes ago, RichieHunt said:

For me, I think I'm at my best when for every 2 hours of practice I play 9 holes of golf.  That's at my very absolute best and just not feasible for me these days.   But if I had all of the time and money in the world, that's what I would try to do.

 

RH

This seems reasonable to me. Play executive or par 3 in addition to practise?

 

[BigManSlim]

On 6/24/2021 at 4:14 PM, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

This is an exaggeration but there is some truth, but I would also add that a 3 is a lot different than a scratch. 

Completely agree they are different. Drastically. But there is an aura or whatever about scratch players as if they are some incredible golfers doing otherwordly things and they aren't. 

[BombinJim]

Perhaps - If ball striking is the only reason you are a 3 and not a scratch (e.g. SG off-the-tee and approach are terrible and around the greens and putting are better than scratch). But you’d need to practice on more than golf matts to be successful.

[Precis1on]

For myself personally, it's an absolute no. The more I play, the lower my handicap drops. I came off of Monte's Chicago seminar a month ago, spent probably way too much time at the range and was struggling to bring it all to the course. I spent this weekend playing three rounds, and progressively played better each round. 

 

I would say the major things from a shot by shot basis that change vs the range: Alignment, Conditions, Lie. All of that falls under course management generally, but how a person reacts and executes against those determines how low they can go. 

 

Getting to scratch is not a linear path for everyone. For the most part, it's playing REALLY BORING golf. Someone who strikes it as well as a scratch on the range can probably get down to scratch on the course within a month or two if they understand how to manage the course. I would argue that I'm at best a modest ballstriker at -4, play inside 175 like a scratch, and short game/putting a +4. Even though I could probably gain some striking improvement spending time on the range, I still make the most advancement on my handicap by playing and making smart choices on the bolded above. 

[nitram]

You may become a plus ball striker but there's more to scratch golf than ball striking.

[NoTalentLefty]

If you have talent possible. But even if a person dedicated himself to both doesn’t mean that person will ever get to scratch , talent which I believe falls into the hand eye coordination category specificity . Some people just  peak at some point before scratch.

[DLiver]

I'll let you know 😂. I'm currently a 2.2 index working to get to back to scratch (from 18 years ago). This involves a TON of range time as I am in the middle of a pretty large swing makeover. I think you need to know how to practice to get better. The swing is coming along, but is still very much a work in progress. My putting is getting really really good after a couple months of hard work doing drills. Short game is getting good as well, but this is one area that I think playing helps a ton. FWIW, I think if you learn how to score, that skill stays with you forever. Since I started this process several months ago, I've basically cut my index in half.

 

Anyway, maybe this will work, maybe it won't. 🤪

[Markrobert1980]

Id say that the pressure of having a card in hand could get to some. Its ok hitting some bad putts or chips on the practice area as you can just repeat the process till its right.

But duffing a chip on the course is a different mind game.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

5 hours ago, DLiver said:

I'll let you know 😂. I'm currently a 2.2 index working to get to back to scratch (from 18 years ago). This involves a TON of range time as I am in the middle of a pretty large swing makeover. I think you need to know how to practice to get better. The swing is coming along, but is still very much a work in progress. My putting is getting really really good after a couple months of hard work doing drills. Short game is getting good as well, but this is one area that I think playing helps a ton. FWIW, I think if you learn how to score, that skill stays with you forever. Since I started this process several months ago, I've basically cut my index in half.

 

Anyway, maybe this will work, maybe it won't. 🤪

Mostly agree.
 

It worked for Ben Hogan, but he practised  on course in addition to hitting balls on the range.

 

Ball striking is a good percentage of scoring low. Far more than some seem to feel.

 

I agree that we can’t learn everything on a range, but it seems like most struggle with irons including myself. My dispersion is 30 yards from 150 yards with most falling within 20. It seems like if I could drop that to 20 total and 10 more than 60% of the time, i could drop up to 3-4 putts or more per round?

 

That skill improvement can be achieved mostly on a driving range.

 

If we attempt to improve iron accuracy on the course, we would need to play 4 rounds per day instead of hitting 60 balls per day?

 

Irons differentiate players better than me from players like myself or worse.

[Precis1on]

If you've gotten to scratch before, I would wager that getting back there / improving on the range, the probability is much higher. 

 

If someone's never been scratch, unless they're just super smart and ridiculously athletic with game sense and intuition, I think it would take some time to translate a scratch swing to the course. The thread isn't really clear with like "how much time" or is the expectation that you would immediately be able to go from 9 months on the range and immediately be scratch on the course. 

[DShepley]

18 hours ago, DLiver said:

I'll let you know 😂. I'm currently a 2.2 index working to get to back to scratch (from 18 years ago). This involves a TON of range time as I am in the middle of a pretty large swing makeover. I think you need to know how to practice to get better. The swing is coming along, but is still very much a work in progress. My putting is getting really really good after a couple months of hard work doing drills. Short game is getting good as well, but this is one area that I think playing helps a ton. FWIW, I think if you learn how to score, that skill stays with you forever. Since I started this process several months ago, I've basically cut my index in half.

 

Anyway, maybe this will work, maybe it won't. 🤪

I think getting back to scratch would be easier than starting at say a 3 index never having been a scratch.  I say this because I am in the same boat as you, there are situations on the course that you are able to handle better having played off of scratch since you have some experience to help carry you through them.  Once you've been a scratch and your handicap rises for whatever reason, you always tend to expect to be better, (because you have been).

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

On 6/23/2021 at 2:18 PM, RCGA said:

Let's say you have a decent single digit handicapper who wants to become a scratch golfer. 

 

But because of life situations (new born, work, etc.), they no longer have time to play rounds of golf, but can practice 3-4 times per week for an hour each. The practice facility has everything you'd need (grass range, unlimited balls, bunker, putting green, chipping area, etc.). 

 

Could you become a scratch golfer using only the practice range? 

 

Obviously you'd need to play several rounds to establish a handicap. So if it is possible, how much time do you think it would take before you're ready? 6 months? 1 year? Longer?

 

Similarly, could you become a scratch golfer on a real course using only an indoor simulator for practice and simulated rounds?

 

12 hours ago, Precis1on said:

If you've gotten to scratch before, I would wager that getting back there / improving on the range, the probability is much higher. 

 

If someone's never been scratch, unless they're just super smart and ridiculously athletic with game sense and intuition, I think it would take some time to translate a scratch swing to the course. The thread isn't really clear with like "how much time" or is the expectation that you would immediately be able to go from 9 months on the range and immediately be scratch on the course. 

Yes, the time frame is requested and not stated, and the restriction is 4 hours per week in one hour sessions.

Ball striking is certainly something I would not be practising on the course.

 

Given he might consider a simulator as well, it seems possible to learn to strike the ball well.

 

Chipping and putting skills can be had pretty quickly and possibly within those several rounds to establish handicap?

 

Should be possible if you strike the ball well?

[DLiver]

7 hours ago, DShepley said:

I think getting back to scratch would be easier than starting at say a 3 index never having been a scratch.  I say this because I am in the same boat as you, there are situations on the course that you are able to handle better having played off of scratch since you have some experience to help carry you through them.  Once you've been a scratch and your handicap rises for whatever reason, you always tend to expect to be better, (because you have been).

I should note that for every hour I am on the range, I prolly spend 1.5 hours putting and chipping (much of the time doing putting drills and working on specific types of chips). As an old guy, I prolly should hit more drivers. I do some speed work, but only hit driver on the range once out of every 5 or 6 sessions. I agree that having been scratch before helps, because I feel like I know what I need to work on, and also how to practice.

[Saltydawg15]

You’re not going to be scratch practicing for one hour. Before I was injured I practiced anywhere between 2-4 hrs at a time, probably 2/3 of that time is short game within 100 yards.

 

 

[milesgiles]

On 6/23/2021 at 10:18 PM, RCGA said:

Let's say you have a decent single digit handicapper who wants to become a scratch golfer. 

 

But because of life situations (new born, work, etc.), they no longer have time to play rounds of golf, but can practice 3-4 times per week for an hour each. The practice facility has everything you'd need (grass range, unlimited balls, bunker, putting green, chipping area, etc.). 

 

Could you become a scratch golfer using only the practice range? 

 

Obviously you'd need to play several rounds to establish a handicap. So if it is possible, how much time do you think it would take before you're ready? 6 months? 1 year? Longer?

 

Similarly, could you become a scratch golfer on a real course using only an indoor simulator for practice and simulated rounds?

 

i do practise that sort of amount and its not enough to get to scratch imo..

 

I do think id get there just on a range and practise green if Iwas doing more like 6-8 hours focused practise a week, at least half on short game.

 

My proviso is that the range is grass. Mats are simply for working on mechanics, they are too forgiving to tell you where you are. No chance if you only practise indoors.

 

I dont forget how to score. Been at my course for years, I know how to play it 

[nikegal]

No

[Railroading13]

If you believe in yourself it’s possible. The key would be practicing in the same way a round would go. Never hit same club twice. Hit a lot putts and go through your pre shot routine. I would think it would be harder to achieve but it’s possible IMO

[Trouble_shooter]

It can be done, practice is essential to improvement. When I broke 90 and went down to the low 80’s I was going to the range 3 times a week. I’d hit a bucket, but the majority of my practice was always short game and wedges. Just repetitively swinging a wedge a million times much slower than I swing an iron really helped me hit my irons and make solid contact. And I’d finish every practice with a game I played where I’d pitch it from everywhere on the green and putt it from wherever it lies. But I haven’t played in 4 years after a back injury, so nowadays I’d be 3 fairways over in a pond lol

[RCGA]

Update: I spent 3 months on the range and practice facility after being away from the game for several years (was a 2-4hcp). To be honest, I needed the reps just to get my swing & feel back. I've played 4 rounds in the past few weeks and here are a couple observations

• Inside 100y is much better than it ever was. Distance control, chips, putting; all noticeably better. I'd venture to say I'm saving ~3 stokes a round just from this. I never practiced putting on an actual green, but instead bought two 11' indoor putting greens to make a 22' green. I roll about 100-200 putts a day, every day. 
• Irons are hit or miss. It was hard to get a good idea on shot dispersion and distance with range balls. I'm hitting a block cut and it's hard to commit to aiming essentially at the left bunker. I'm also having trouble getting a feel for the wind. I was a strong iron player, but I'd say about 2-3 shots worse here.  
• Off the tee is a mess. It's hard to get comfortable hitting driver when there's hazards left and right. The swing is good, but not fully committed/experienced hitting new woods on an actual course is hard. Loosing another 2-3 shots here. 
• Strokes gained thinking is saving me about 1-2 shots a round. I'm not mad about missing a 10ft putt. I'm not trying to go after sucker pins. I'm just trying to hit the green and if I hit it close and make the putt, great. If not, just two putt and move on.  

With some changes to my bag and another 15-20 rounds I can probably get down to a 1-2hcp. I feel like a lot of the mistakes I'm making are just from not being comfortable hitting actual shots on an actual golf course. 

 

 

[DaveLeeNC]

I have not read all the posts in this thread. But IMHO there are probably a lot of golfers who could get to scratch with much or any course time. But I suspect that there are VERY few who could get close to their 'best possible game' without a goodly amount of play on the course. 

 

dave

[proninja]

On 6/23/2021 at 2:18 PM, RCGA said:

Let's say you have a decent single digit handicapper who wants to become a scratch golfer. 

 

But because of life situations (new born, work, etc.), they no longer have time to play rounds of golf, but can practice 3-4 times per week for an hour each. The practice facility has everything you'd need (grass range, unlimited balls, bunker, putting green, chipping area, etc.). 

 

Could you become a scratch golfer using only the practice range? 

 

Obviously you'd need to play several rounds to establish a handicap. So if it is possible, how much time do you think it would take before you're ready? 6 months? 1 year? Longer?

 

Similarly, could you become a scratch golfer on a real course using only an indoor simulator for practice and simulated rounds?

 

I think so. Starting as a single digit means you already have an idea of how to get around a course. I might be the test case for this over the next year. I was at scratch 20 years ago, have played minimally since then, and got re-obsessed a month ago. I don't have time to play much at all with a 4/6 year old at home, work, and other life responsibilities, but I just got a simulator, and have done a ton of work using video over the last month.

If you want to get really good you have to play. But having a repeatable swing is kind of a prerequisite and scratch isn't that good. Plus you can get in a lot more swings/chips/putts per hour on the practice range, and more reps = more value imo. 

Sidenote: it's amazing how much more info on the golf swing is out there than 20 years ago. 

 

 

[ZA206]

I had a buddy that used to play with some. He was a mid 90’s type of guy. He “joined” the local TopGolf because he loved it and said he was going to use that for most of his practice.

 

That guy can’t break 110 now. His swing is trash.

 

I think you can become scratch by playing a ton and never practicing, but I think it’s impossible the other way around!

[Myherobobhope]

On 7/4/2021 at 3:11 PM, DLiver said:

I'll let you know 😂. I'm currently a 2.2 index working to get to back to scratch (from 18 years ago). This involves a TON of range time as I am in the middle of a pretty large swing makeover. I think you need to know how to practice to get better. The swing is coming along, but is still very much a work in progress. My putting is getting really really good after a couple months of hard work doing drills. Short game is getting good as well, but this is one area that I think playing helps a ton. FWIW, I think if you learn how to score, that skill stays with you forever. Since I started this process several months ago, I've basically cut my index in half.

 

Anyway, maybe this will work, maybe it won't. 🤪

I think a better question is: if you only had time to practice, what would you do to improve… @DLiver has some good drills going… 

 

I think the biggest challenge with golf practice is our tendency to just hit golf balls and not really think about what we are trying to do…

 

I’m a single digit (6) handicap trying to get to scratch…my route involves more than just playing a ton of rounds… but those rounds give me actionable information on what I need to improve…

 

different parts of the practice area help me do different things… I can work on path and contact in the simulator… do differential training on the range and ladder drills on the short game area… 

 

im still working on building better practice habits. There is also a ton you can do away from the course to improve… toss in some strategy stuff and you will improve…

 

if I had to pick which golfer was going to lower their handicap more and one spent 4 hours a week playing golf and one spent 4 doing dedicated practice on the range (with a cohesive plan), I’d pick the one who was practicing.