Playing partners constantly wanting yardage

[jordan2240]

I would just give them the yardage from my ball, and they can then estimate how far they are from me.  Exception would be if I was passing by their ball on the way to mine, in which case I'd be happy to shoot a yardage for them.

[Hawkeye77]

4 hours ago, Jwin323 said:

I think you and I might be in agreement on this topic. The point I was making is that it’s not a black and white written rule like if you were to move your ball or improve your lie. It’s a subjective decision made by a committee. The ruling would be dependent upon the makeup of the committee. I know the OP was specifically talking about junior tournament play. Others mentioned instances in their weekly play which would not be under the authority of a committee thus no possible rule breach. Best just to get your own yardage.

I'm just defending my daughter in a completely made up hypothetical! 😀

[cval]

On 6/24/2021 at 1:14 PM, Swashbuckler said:

Strange question, but I have a kid who plays tourney golf. He uses a rangefinder which is legal. He’s a sweet kid, barely a teen.
 

The issue is, as soon as everyone in the group see he has a rangefinder, they literally bug him nonstop for yardages… literally every one of their shots! He’s kind, and doesn’t want to be rude but he’s getting frustrated to the point it’s hurting his focus and concentration and feels like the groups caddy. I’ve told him, shoot all the par 3 tee boxes and tell the group but other than that, they need to get their own yardages, so you can focus on your own game. He’s actually not even using it lately in tournament because he doesn’t want to bugged every shot which is counter productive in my opinion. Any advice to give the kid without being rude to his partners on tournament days? Thanks 

 

In a  competition I would not give yardages.  Your regular weekend group of course I will give yardages. ie I would not go to other side of the fairway though. 

[2bGood]

 

 

20 hours ago, Jwin323 said:

The batteries in my laser are low. My bad.

 

Yes you can make up a lie to excuse the behaviour. You can also lie about other infractions in golf. The rules expect honesty and I find it interesting how fast a dishonest golfer is identified and pushed to the margins of golf society . 

 

 

20 hours ago, Jwin323 said:

No written rule against it. Subjective ruling by a committee.  Outside of tournament play where no committee governs, it is not a breach, which means it’s a matter of opinion of the committee. Lying, yes I would agree. Cheating, not at all. Like was mentioned before, batteries acting up, had it set to meters not yards, I’m dyslexic. Could be several reasons. Only a moron would keep asking for distance after a couple bad ones.

With that view there is also no rule against hitting another player with your driver. R1.2 covers both situations though

11 hours ago, Jwin323 said:

I think you and I might be in agreement on this topic. The point I was making is that it’s not a black and white written rule like if you were to move your ball or improve your lie. It’s a subjective decision made by a committee. The ruling would be dependent upon the makeup of the committee. I know the OP was specifically talking about junior tournament play. Others mentioned instances in their weekly play which would not be under the authority of a committee thus no possible rule breach. Best just to get your own yardage.

Weekly play is actual often still under the authority of a committee as the rules state that a group of golfers can form and function as their own committee. In our weekly skins game I can guarantee the 'committee' would DQ a guy who pulled that move.

 

6 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

I'm just defending my daughter in a completely made up hypothetical! 😀

In the Hypothetical you gave, your daughter was perfect. As you did note that she would let them know it was in meters and then let them do the math.

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by 2bGood

[jlbos83]

I haven't read it all.  But I think the answer is, if you have shot a yardage, "it's X yards from here."  If you have not, and are not planning to, "I didn't shoot it."  No extra shots, no wandering around, hopefully less getting out of his game, especially once they figure out the answer.  And it does not seem rude, at least to me.

[sui generis]

I'll admit to getting a chuckle out of the imaginary conversation.

 

Him, "Hey, whatcha got?'

Me, "133 meters."

Him, "What do I do with that?"

Me, "Adjust by 10%.

Him, "Which way up or down?"

Me, "I don't remember."

[2bGood]

36 minutes ago, Jwin323 said:

Clearly you have a hard on for me.

Not you specifically but I can't stand people that break the rules (even R1.2) and then make it worse by lying about it to cover it up. 

 

The vast majority of golf events I have played in or been a committee member for - in the big picture are pretty meaningless. I am always embarrassed for people that will exchange their credibility for a better finish in an event or maybe even worse, do it when they are playing with their friend for a beer. 

[me05501]

I like letting kids figure this stuff out for themselves, but I have a boy that age and know confidence isn't always easy for them. 
 

In his shoes, I’d probably be glad to share any distances I was already shooting for myself,  but I wouldn’t walk around shooting everyone else’s approach shots for them. I agree that would be caddying basically, and there’s no reason for your kid to have that responsibility. Plus it might hand some opponents a mental edge if they feel like they can partially blame your kid for their own poor shots. 
 

I think part of our job as fathers is to help our kids learn to use their own judgement and agency, while coaching them to think through their decisions and consider the pros and cons of making choices. This is a good spot for some of that. 

Edited June 26, 2021 by me05501

[Greenie]

On 6/24/2021 at 6:18 PM, tatertot said:

That is against the rules ... I know that much. You could argue to the officials you didn't know, but it goes against everything golf is about.

So what is the rule if you give someone a wrong yardage by mistake?

 

I use a Voice Buddy2. My friends bugs me for yardages all the time. On one occassion it had picked up another green close by. It will do that sometimes. When he asked for his yardage I walked over to him and hit the button. I actually didn't say anything. The voice does say the hole and then gives the yardage to the green. Neither of us picked up it was on the wrong hole. The distance ended up being longer than what he had and he flew the green. Of course he blames it all on me for giving him an incorrect yardage.

[Greenie]

Double post.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Greenie

[sui generis]

4 minutes ago, Greenie said:

So what is the rule if you give someone a wrong yardage by mistake?

 

Read this, and decide for yourself:

 

1.2 Standards of Player Conduct
      a. Conduct Expected of All Players

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=1&subrulenum=2

[Jwin323]

1 hour ago, 2bGood said:

Not you specifically but I can't stand people that break the rules (even R1.2) and then make it worse by lying about it to cover it up. 

 

The vast majority of golf events I have played in or been a committee member for - in the big picture are pretty meaningless. I am always embarrassed for people that will exchange their credibility for a better finish in an event or maybe even worse, do it when they are playing with their friend for a beer. 

My point is, if’s important enough then make it a rule. Write it down, be specific. Don’t leave it up to a committee’s judgement.. I agree it’s a bad thing to do. I disagree it’s cheating. Improving your lie is cheating. This is being done not to gain an advantage but to discourage annoying behavior.

 

Allow me a hypothetical. Say I am shooting a target and you ask the yardage. I respond in earnest with the yardage. Unknown to you, I shot the front of the green, but the flagstick, which you assumed I shot is in the back. You club off this information and come up way short. Now you are angry with me. I’d hate to think you’d take that to the committee and accuse me of cheating. Am I under any obligation to explicitly tell you what my target was? Would you be upset if I told you to get your own yardage when you asked? You see all the gray area here? The committee would have to establish intent, which is all but impossible. If the rule makers think this is such a heinous act then they should specifically make it a rule.  To have it in the same broad category as club throwing or profanity is ridiculous if’s that important. Easy fix—- make a rule you can’t ask for yardage.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Jwin323
S

[tatertot]

1 hour ago, Greenie said:

So what is the rule if you give someone a wrong yardage by mistake?

 

I use a Voice Buddy2. My friends bugs me for yardages all the time. On one occassion it had picked up another green close by. It will do that sometimes. When he asked for his yardage I walked over to him and hit the button. I actually didn't say anything. The voice does say the hole and then gives the yardage to the green. Neither of us picked up it was on the wrong hole. The distance ended up being longer than what he had and he flew the green. Of course he blames it all on me for giving him an incorrect yardage.

Stuff happens ... about 5 years ago, a few months after a buddy first got his rangefinder, he suddenly lost a club of distance throughout his bag. He couldn't figure it out. After about 3 weeks, we took a look at his yards/meters indicator ... he had somehow switched over to meters without knowing it.

[cadoipi]

1 hour ago, Jwin323 said:

My point is, if’s important enough then make it a rule. Write it down, be specific. Don’t leave it up to a committee’s judgement.. I agree it’s a bad thing to do. I disagree it’s cheating. Improving your lie is cheating. This is being done not to gain an advantage but to discourage annoying behavior.

 

Allow me a hypothetical. Say I am shooting a target and you ask the yardage. I respond in earnest with the yardage. Unknown to you, I shot the front of the green, but the flagstick, which you assumed I shot is in the back. You club off this information and come up way short. Now you are angry with me. I’d hate to think you’d take that to the committee and accuse me of cheating. Am I under any obligation to explicitly tell you what my target was? Would you be upset if I told you to get your own yardage when you asked? You see all the gray area here? The committee would have to establish intent, which is all but impossible. If the rule makers think this is such a heinous act then they should specifically make it a rule.  To have it in the same broad category as club throwing or profanity is ridiculous if’s that important. Easy fix—- make a rule you can’t ask for yardage.

 

I think the disconnect is others are imagining a situation where in the first instance that Player 2 asks Player 1 for yardage from P2's ball to the pin (in the middle of the round), P1 responses matter of factly with an inaccurate (but plausible) yardage causing P2 to hit their ball into a hazard.  Of course if would be hard/impossible for P2 to prove to the committee that P1 lied without P2 having access to their own range finder, but nevertheless this type of behavior certainly goes against the spirit of the rules, should be discouraged, and frankly is not worth the hit to P1's reputation.

Conversely, I think you are imagining a situation where P2 asks P1 for the yardage to the pin from P2's ball.  P1 politely says something to the effect of "I am not your caddy".  P2 then persists in asking and P1 says they will be happy to share the yardage they shot for their own ball after P1 makes their own stroke.  P1 keeps up their offer and responds truthfully when asked about all yardage they shot for their own ball.   Despite this P2 continues to ask P1 to shoot the yardage for P2's ball and P1 informs P2 that continuing to ask will be seen an a violation of rule 1.2.a since P2 is "distracting the play of" P1.  Nevertheless P2 keeps asking and at this point P1 give P2 inaccurate (but plausible) yardage from P2's ball to the pin.  If at this point P2 complains to the rule committee that P1 gave inaccurate yardage, I hope we are all in agreement that the committee should laugh in P2's face and tell them to get lost.

Edited June 26, 2021 by cadoipi

[rogolf]

P2 has a right to ask, and P1 has the right to disregard the request and just walk away.  It might be a quiet round after that, and maybe that is the way it should be.

Folks are folks.

 

[2bGood]

14 hours ago, Jwin323 said:

My point is, if’s important enough then make it a rule. Write it down, be specific. Don’t leave it up to a committee’s judgement.. I agree it’s a bad thing to do. I disagree it’s cheating. Improving your lie is cheating. This is being done not to gain an advantage but to discourage annoying behavior.

 

Allow me a hypothetical. Say I am shooting a target and you ask the yardage. I respond in earnest with the yardage. Unknown to you, I shot the front of the green, but the flagstick, which you assumed I shot is in the back. You club off this information and come up way short. Now you are angry with me. I’d hate to think you’d take that to the committee and accuse me of cheating. Am I under any obligation to explicitly tell you what my target was? Would you be upset if I told you to get your own yardage when you asked? You see all the gray area here? The committee would have to establish intent, which is all but impossible. If the rule makers think this is such a heinous act then they should specifically make it a rule.  To have it in the same broad category as club throwing or profanity is ridiculous if’s that important. Easy fix—- make a rule you can’t ask for yardage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Every rule needs to be explicitly written? In this case the rule is:

-being honest in all aspects of play  and goes on to further say in the interpretations:

The phrase “serious misconduct” is intended to cover player misconduct that is so far removed from the expected norm in golf that the most severe sanction of removing a player from the competition is justified. This includes dishonesty...

 

For me this is specific enough and so important that is part of rule #1. You can choose to not give someone information (except in specific cases in Match Play). But deliberately giving wrong Information is not being honest in all aspect of play and a clear breach of the rules.

 

This is being done not to gain an advantage?

Do you really think deliberately lying about a yardage does not give you an advantage over the other player? 

 

I see you moved you position from deliberately given false information to accidentally doing so with the new scenario you added. It is fine to accidentally give wrong information in this case. The rules forbid lying. 

 

And yes the committee would have to establish intent to their satisfaction. Intent is part of several parts of the ROG's and rules rely on golfers acting with honour and integrity. It is not all but impossible to establish intent if you are dealing with an honest golfer. If you choose to lie about your intent you are most defiantly breaking the rules. I do concede a committee can not always prove a golfer is cheating if they choose to lie. Your point seems to be "if you can't prove it, it is okay". That may be how the rules work in other sports where the athletes job is to try to 'get away' with as much as the officials will let them, but in golf we are supposed to call our own strikes and balls. 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by 2bGood

[Augster]

On 6/24/2021 at 10:24 PM, Jwin323 said:

No written rule against it. Subjective ruling by a committee.  Outside of tournament play where no committee governs, it is not a breach, which means it’s a matter of opinion of the committee. Lying, yes I would agree. Cheating, not at all. Like was mentioned before, batteries acting up, had it set to meters not yards, I’m dyslexic. Could be several reasons. Only a moron would keep asking for distance after a couple bad ones.

Ugh. But YOU know you lied about the yardage, right? Shouldn’t even go to a committee. You should WD. 
 

It’s a game of honesty and integrity. I’d say lying about yardages isn’t honest and lacks integrity. 
 

So give the bad yardage then immediately WD. 

[Hardluckster]

In tournament play, I’ll give you the yardage from my ball position any time that you ask. 
 

In casual rounds with friends and all riding in carts, I’ll gladly shoot yardages for anyone who doesn’t have a device. I find that it usually speeds up play even though I’m driving to their shots before/after hitting my own. It’s all friendly play even though there’s a small amount of coin on the line. 

[golfortennis]

2 hours ago, Hardluckster said:

In tournament play, I’ll give you the yardage from my ball position any time that you ask. 
 

In casual rounds with friends and all riding in carts, I’ll gladly shoot yardages for anyone who doesn’t have a device. I find that it usually speeds up play even though I’m driving to their shots before/after hitting my own. It’s all friendly play even though there’s a small amount of coin on the line. 

 

This.  I'lll give a yardage from my spot.  But I'm not walking to your ball.  In competition, that is.

[Carl Spackler3]

I lie to a large degree, they stop asking by the 3rd green

[wkndhckr]

Estimate from the last use. If it's your buds, shoot it for them.

[Imp]

When I was young, I was a smarmy basterd. My answer then would be "time for you to get a rangefinder", and that's it.  Much like asking dad what time it was "time for you to find a clock".  "Still time for you to get a range finder." 

 

Barring that, it would be a discussion with the team (I assume this is team based jr golf?) Coaches need to have a discussion with the team/kids, about pacing off the distance markers and using a card and "constantly asking your FC isn't a good practice". Coming from the "it's an art" angle. Heck, if I were the OPs dad, I'd have them play without one for a bit. Learn how to pace it all off instead of having an immediate answer. Also prevents others from asking them. Better yet "having a range finder is a tool, but also an unnecessary one, in fact, it's a privelidge. If you don't want to give distances, then don't carry one."

To all those saying "it's X from here" is still being asked for distance and is a distraction. Also, the "hang back/give them space" suggestions promote slow play and avoids ready golf.... the opposite of "go to your ball and be ready to hit when your turn." 

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Imp

[Swashbuckler]

On 6/24/2021 at 7:21 PM, CaseyC said:

 

You are completely missing the point.  It is junior golf!   Lighten up.  

Just say, I slap it around, I don’t get it. Lol

[bcski]

On 6/25/2021 at 8:01 PM, Jwin323 said:

My point is, if’s important enough then make it a rule. Write it down, be specific. Don’t leave it up to a committee’s judgement.. I agree it’s a bad thing to do. I disagree it’s cheating. Improving your lie is cheating. This is being done not to gain an advantage but to discourage annoying behavior.

 

Allow me a hypothetical. Say I am shooting a target and you ask the yardage. I respond in earnest with the yardage. Unknown to you, I shot the front of the green, but the flagstick, which you assumed I shot is in the back. You club off this information and come up way short. Now you are angry with me. I’d hate to think you’d take that to the committee and accuse me of cheating. Am I under any obligation to explicitly tell you what my target was? Would you be upset if I told you to get your own yardage when you asked? You see all the gray area here? The committee would have to establish intent, which is all but impossible. If the rule makers think this is such a heinous act then they should specifically make it a rule.  To have it in the same broad category as club throwing or profanity is ridiculous if’s that important. Easy fix—- make a rule you can’t ask for yardage.

 

 

 

 

 

Jwin, you have run into one of the multi-accouters here who will gang up on you with his 3 accounts.  Just ignore the comments and keep posting without engaging...

 

Have a great day

[Imp]

12 hours ago, Par Be A Joke said:

Jwin, you have run into one of the multi-accouters here who will gang up on you with his 3 accounts.  Just ignore the comments and keep posting without engaging...

 

Have a great day

? They should be banned if that's the case.

[bcski]

deleted  

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by bcski

[Jwin323]

16 hours ago, Par Be A Joke said:

Jwin, you have run into one of the multi-accouters here who will gang up on you with his 3 accounts.  Just ignore the comments and keep posting without engaging...

 

Have a great day

Thanks for the intel.

[Aaronwilson_95]

Have your kid learn meters. Give the kids metric numbers and see why they are they can’t hit the green

[4x4GGG]

I wear a watch. I have no issue calling out what it says when asked, but won't take more than 3 additional steps to spot it. 

[charli]

Interesting, I’d give whoever is close to me a yardage. Other than that kick rocks. Par 3s sure. Zero issue with that.