Improving Launch Conditions (lower spin)

[MatthewJPJohnson]

I have been working on my driver CHS but also monitoring my launch conditions in an attempt to gain carry distance off the tee.

I'm probably due for a new driver but going to work on my body and CHS a bit more first. 

 

Here's my highest ball speed hit from a driver session today:

Launch Monitor: short indoor on Mevo+

Ball: ProV1 with metallic dot.

Driver: Titleist 915D3 9.5* head on D1 setting

Shaft: Aldila 60-3.6S 95MSI  at 43.5"

 

Launch Conditions:

Carry: 268.1

CHS: 110.8

BS: 161.3

Launch(V): 15.7

Spin: 2734

Smash: 1.46

Height: 138.9'

Flight: 7.59s

AoA: 0.3

Spin Loft: 18.7

Launch(H): 1.0L

Spin Axis: 5.8L

Roll: 5.5

Total: 273.5

Lateral(yds): 11.2 L

 

Plugging all this into the Flightscope Trajectory optimizer confirmed the numbers.

Then I played around with a few variations but the one that blew me away was lowering the spin to 1800 the Carry would be 275.1 with total 302.4

 

Is 1800 spin achievable consistently at my swing speed and launch angle?

Is equipment change a requirement or is there anything in the delivery that I can look at as well?

(I've tested ProV1x and Kirkland balls and they spin more. I have TP5 and TP5x on order)

 

Thanks in advance!

[MatthewJPJohnson]

Which shafts can help lower spin (and possibly lower launch as well if that is desirable)?

[j.b.newton]

im no expert but a 15.7 launch with 1800 spin is not optimal at all..... 

[MatthewJPJohnson]

It's just playing with an algorithm but...

 

 

Here's what the Trackman carry optimizer numbers look like but I cannot reproduce with the flight scope optimizer

 

 

 

Anyway... is launch angle primarily determined by the loft / characteristic of the head? Or does shaft effect that a lot too?

 

If i wanted a lower spinning, lower launching shaft what options would I look toward? I'm averaging about 106 CHS, would I need to average 110 to look at X flex also?

Edited June 25, 2021 by MatthewJPJohnson

[BSTRONG1313]

The easiest way to lower spin is to lower the loft of your driver. You can also manipulate your delivered loft by shutting down the clubface at delivery but I'm not sure that would help you play better golf. Striking the ball above the center line will also generally take your spin down. Either way, the number to pay attention to is your spin loft number. As that lowers, your spin will drop and your smash factor will increase. 

 

I have not personally seen a shaft do a lot to reduce spin except with helping your strike. A golf ball will move it maybe 200 rpm at most. 

 

Delivered loft is king when it comes to spin.

Edited June 26, 2021 by BSTRONG1313

[MatthewJPJohnson]

Had to brush up on spin loft a bit...

 

AoA: 0.3

Spin Loft: 18.7

 

Does this mean that the Dynamic Loft was 18.4 on a 8.75 lofted club (9.5 loft with D1 setting (-.75*).

In other words, I was delivering the club with almost 10 degrees of loft MORE than the club's native loft?

 

If so, it seems like I have a lot to gain via technique... I know that the shaft characteristics can contribute but that seems like a lot of extra delivered loft.

Edited June 26, 2021 by MatthewJPJohnson

[BSTRONG1313]

18 hours ago, MatthewJPJohnson said:

Had to brush up on spin loft a bit...

 

AoA: 0.3

Spin Loft: 18.7

 

Does this mean that the Dynamic Loft was 18.4 on a 8.75 lofted club (9.5 loft with D1 setting (-.75*).

In other words, I was delivering the club with almost 10 degrees of loft MORE than the club's native loft?

 

If so, it seems like I have a lot to gain via technique... I know that the shaft characteristics can contribute but that seems like a lot of extra delivered loft.

Yep, your looking at that right. Ideally, the spin loft would be somewhere around 2-3 higher than the loft of your driver. So if your Mevo+ is accurate with those measurements (I've never used one but I assume it is) then you are adding a lot of loft at impact. 

 

Michael Breed has some videos on the internet on bowing your wrist like Dustin Johnson. This helps me to lower my dynamic loft and my spin. Maybe it will work for you? 

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/michael-breeds-top-tip-backswing

 

If you have a decent golf shop near you, you can go and mess around with different heads and shafts and see if that will help too. It never hurts to try and see what works for you. 

[MatthewJPJohnson]

This conversation got me thinking about looking at spin loft to beyond just driver.

 

Here are some interesting observations:

 

5 iron through PW my delivered loft is consistently lower than the spec loft of the club.

(I play a mixed set of 714 AP2 and 714 CB and currently have 4-7 in AP2s in the bag; have duplicates of 5,6,7 but recently switched to AP2 to try to create more gapping between clubs as the AP2 are a degree stronger on 6 and 7.)

 

Examples:

7 iron

Spin Loft: 36.4*

AoA: -5.4*

Delivered Loft (calculated): 31*

Spec Loft: 34*

Delofted by 3*

 

PW

Spin Loft: 47.2*

AoA: -5.9*

Delivered Loft (calculated): 41.3*

Spec Loft: 47*

Delofted by 5.7*

 

Here's where it gets interesting... I've been struggling to hit my 4 iron consistently (i play a 3 hybrid 21*)

 

4 iron

Spin Loft: 29*

AoA: -5.2

Delivered Loft (calculated): 23.8*

Spec Loft: 24

Loft added: .2*

 

In my practice session today I'll see if I can reduce my AoA slightly while getting a slightly negative delivered loft.

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by MatthewJPJohnson

[teedub21]

It seems an AoA of only .3 on driver is not optimal. Need to hit more up on the ball. Try to get that AoA on the driver more in the + area. 

[MatthewJPJohnson]

On 6/28/2021 at 7:24 PM, teedub21 said:

It seems an AoA of only .3 on driver is not optimal. Need to hit more up on the ball. Try to get that AoA on the driver more in the + area. 

 

Are you saying that specific to my conditions or in general?

My dispersion is not very good, and when I try to work on +5 AoA it gets worse. My miss is a closed clubface.

My current goal is to be slightly positive (0.5 - +2) while controlling the clubface better.

 

Other suggestions are welcome.

[Rbsiedsc]

On 6/30/2021 at 7:49 AM, MatthewJPJohnson said:

 

Are you saying that specific to my conditions or in general?

My dispersion is not very good, and when I try to work on +5 AoA it gets worse. My miss is a closed clubface.

My current goal is to be slightly positive (0.5 - +2) while controlling the clubface better.

 

Other suggestions are welcome.

Most pros are -1 AOA. Yes higher AOA will help launch but unless you are hitting it in good zones you’ll be more erratic. Just FYI. Tour pros have an average left right dispersion of 65 yards with a driver. What is erratic to you? Your dispersion may already be in line with your ability 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Rbsiedsc

[MatthewJPJohnson]

29 minutes ago, Rbsiedsc said:

Most pros are -1 AOA. Yes higher AOA will help launch but unless you are hitting it in good zones you’ll be more erratic. Just FYI. Tour pros have an average left right dispersion of 65 yards with a driver. What is erratic to you? Your dispersion may already be in line with your ability 

Here's a session from today (indoors on Mevo+ short indoor settings) showing carry distance, no deleted shots.

This was probably one of my best sessions in recent memory in terms of club face control.

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by MatthewJPJohnson

[Rbsiedsc]

8 hours ago, MatthewJPJohnson said:

Here's a session from today (indoors on Mevo+ short indoor settings) showing carry distance, no deleted shots.

This was probably one of my best sessions in recent memory in terms of club face control.

 

Your left right dispersion is great. For optimal distance, your spin numbers are too high and you are losing out. What loft are you playing and how is your face contact? You can keep the same AOA and be fine if you hit just high and toeside of center. Get some foot spray and see where you are hitting it. You want spin between 2500-2900 hundred depending on your launch conditions, maybe even 100 ram lower. I'd kill for this dispersion. You are like me if speed and on great drives I can get 270 carry at 44,5" driver playing length. I am also a terrible driver and things are work in progress for me. Good luck. 

[MatthewJPJohnson]

7 hours ago, Rbsiedsc said:

Your left right dispersion is great. For optimal distance, your spin numbers are too high and you are losing out. What loft are you playing and how is your face contact? You can keep the same AOA and be fine if you hit just high and toeside of center. Get some foot spray and see where you are hitting it. You want spin between 2500-2900 hundred depending on your launch conditions, maybe even 100 ram lower. I'd kill for this dispersion. You are like me if speed and on great drives I can get 270 carry at 44,5" driver playing length. I am also a terrible driver and things are work in progress for me. Good luck. 

Driver: Titleist 915D3 9.5* head on D1 setting (which I believe means 8.75 loft)

Shaft: Aldila 60-3.6S 95MSI  at 43.5"

Ball: TP5x on that last session

 

I have the foot spray and use it occasionally. My strikes are typically center to toe side and usually at or above midline.

 

Over the last month i've been very unstructured in my speed training but am considering starting another thread where I outline my process / progress.

Or maybe I just do it here since this is my thread. I did get fitted on Trackman for this driver setup back in 2015 when my clubhead speed was just under 100 mph.

I told myself I'd do a new fitting and get a new driver once I got my average speed up to 110 mph.

 

[MatthewJPJohnson]

Going to use today's session as a baseline as I start a 4 week cycle to increase club head / ball speed.

 

After a short warm up, this was 20 balls, no deletes, swinging for max speed.

Very little rest between shots. Short Indoor Mevo+, TP5x with metallic dots

 

 

Spin Loft, Vertical Launch, Spin, and Height all seem to be higher than optimal but the focus was swinging as hard / fast as possible.

 

 

I have the Green, Blue, Red set of SuperSpeed but am planning to use the Rypstick protocols.

[MatthewJPJohnson]

Monday: Used SuperSpeed clubs for Level 1 Rypstick protocol

Ave of Final 3: 115

Green Club Max: 119

Blue Club Max: 108

Red Club Max: 105

Club Head Speed tracked with this: 

 

Tuesday: Level 1 Rypstick protocol

Ave of Final 3: 117

Green Club Max: 117

Blue Club Max: 112

Red Club Max: 107

 

After a short rest (< 5 minutes) I proceeded to do a Driver Session on FS Golf with Mevo+ short indoor, no deletes, minimal rest between shots.

I don't think I've done them back to back like this and could tell I didn't have the same snap or control as other sessions, but continued just to get the reps in.

I left the Swing Speed Radar sitting there while I hit balls to compare clubhead speeds registered by the two devices. The Mevo+ was consistently 3-5 mph slower than what the Swing Speed Radar showed. I'm not going to change how I record my results because i'm more concerned with precision than accuracy.

 

 

There's that left (closed face) bias coming back again.. and two really poor strikes. Also on ball 12 I cracked the cover of one of the 3 TP5x balls being used. (note the lower smash factor) These are 2021 TP5x balls and I believe this is due to the Metallic dot needing to be pointing toward the screen. This means essentially the same spot on the ball gets hit over and over.

 

After the first one or two that cracked I double checked to make sure the ball wasn't hitting the drywall wall behind the screen and it isn't. It's the 4th ball I've cracked in roughly 2 months, so apparently durability in one specific spot from repetitive hits wasn't a priority in the quality control. 🙂

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by MatthewJPJohnson

[MatthewJPJohnson]

Final speed session of the week.

 

I took some video of my swing and didn't like what I saw in transition.

Watched this Clay Ballard video and did some drills with 7 iron and driver.

 

Then this final 10 ball session.

 

 

 

 

CHS speed numbers are going up. Still too high on launch, spin, spin loft.

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by MatthewJPJohnson