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If the driver parameters are the same, does the head matter that much?


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Take a hypothetical scenario where you get fitted for a driver. If you took the same exact shaft and a head that was the same loft and similar characteristics (such as playing slightly open vs closed, high vs less high MOI), would it play pretty much the same as the setup you got fitted for?

 

I've been told at big box stores that even small changes (like changing head manufacturers) will "ruin" your optimally fitted driver, but can it really be that different if you control for the above variables? 

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It’s not going to ruin it but cogs are in different spots and moi will vary head to head 

 

if you had heads with the exact same characteristics like cog, loft, face angle and etc then it should be similar. Feel may still be different as the materials or tech can be different even if result from a data or spec perspective is similar 

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The design of the head matters. If you're going to bother with a fitting, then stick with what you were fitted to.

 

Sure you might at random find a similar head that works the same but you could have bought at random without doing the fitting. 

 

I know generally what works for me. But of all the drivers that are more or less like the kind that works, I'd say half of them work OK while a few work really well and a few don't work well at all. They're not all the same by any means.

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If all the parameters are the same then yes, performance should be the same, BUT you need to actually account for what all those parameters are:

- CG location (accounting for both vertical and horizontal)
- Actual measured loft (not what is stamped)
- Measured lie angle (not what is listed as "stock")
- Face angle (not assuming that all drivers are "square")
- Weight

- CT/COR

Even tour issue heads with spec stickers won't have all this information as measured CG is something only published by third party companies and is one of the most consequential parameters. This is also not accounting for the subjective parameters like sound/feel and aesthetics and how those can influence how we swing the club. "Changing head manufacturers" therefore is not a small change, but one of the biggest you can make since loft, lie, and face angle are all subject to manufacturing tolerances. 

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5 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

If all the parameters are the same then yes, performance should be the same, BUT you need to actually account for what all those parameters are:

- CG location (accounting for both vertical and horizontal)
- Actual measured loft (not what is stamped)
- Measured lie angle (not what is listed as "stock")
- Face angle (not assuming that all drivers are "square")
- Weight

- CT/COR

Even tour issue heads with spec stickers won't have all this information as measured CG is something only published by third party companies and is one of the most consequential parameters. This is also not accounting for the subjective parameters like sound/feel and aesthetics and how those can influence how we swing the club. "Changing head manufacturers" therefore is not a small change, but one of the biggest you can make since loft, lie, and face angle are all subject to manufacturing tolerances. 

Very true.  This is why guys on tour usually know their specs but yet, go through a ton of heads and only pick out the few that give them the best dispersion and distance for driver.  I've had tour issue heads in the past when I could afford to just spend whatever.  I'm perfectly fine with retail heads as long as it's pretty close to what I know what works for me.  Getting fitted for driver is a must for me. 

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Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Very true.  This is why guys on tour usually know their specs but yet, go through a ton of heads and only pick out the few that give them the best dispersion and distance for driver.  I've had tour issue heads in the past when I could afford to just spend whatever.  I'm perfectly fine with retail heads as long as it's pretty close to what I know what works for me.  Getting fitted for driver is a must for me. 


I got bit by the tour issue bug with woods a bit as well for similar reasons. This is much less important with adjustable clubs however, which have a lot more wiggle room, but there are still some specs i'd really prefer to see whenever possible. 2.5*-3* open is what looks "square" to me most of the time, so that needs to factor in to stock face angle and its relationship to loft etc etc. 

Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 9* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Stealth+ 16.5* Ventus Black 8x // Taylormade SIM Ti V2 16.5* Ventus TR Blue 7X
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 18* Graphite Design AD-IZ 95X
Callaway X-Forged Single Diamond 22* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X 
Bridgestone 
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Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

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26 minutes ago, Valtiel said:


I got bit by the tour issue bug with woods a bit as well for similar reasons. This is much less important with adjustable clubs however, which have a lot more wiggle room, but there are still some specs i'd really prefer to see whenever possible. 2.5*-3* open is what looks "square" to me most of the time, so that needs to factor in to stock face angle and its relationship to loft etc etc. 

Yeah, I can't play any thing that sits square or closed.  I prefer 2 to 3* open. 

Callaway AI Smoke Paradym 💎💎💎9* - Tour AD VF-7TX

TM SIM ti 15* - Diamana GT 80TX

TM Tour Issue Rescue 11 TP Deep Face Proto 16* - Ventus Black HB 9TX

New Level NLU-01 21* - KBS Hybrid Proto 105X

New Level 623-M 5-PW - MMT 125TX

Miura Tour 54* HB - KBS 610 125 S+, New Level SPN forged M-grind 58* - KBS Tour 130X

Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, sadclevelandsports said:

I've been told at big box stores that even small changes (like changing head manufacturers) will (might) "ruin" your optimally fitted driver,

 

If you want better info, quit going to big box stores... go to golf specialty retailers like Golf Galaxy and PGA Superstore.

 

7 hours ago, sadclevelandsports said:

...can it really be that different if you control for the above variables? 

 

That's why we have launch monitors. A side-by-side test is the best way to tell.

 

Back in 2017, I did the Callaway Epic Challenge. First I hit five shots with my Calla XR16 Tour driver - loft 10.5* - with its Fuji Motore Speeder 665 R-flex shaft. Then the rep put my Speeder shaft into a new version Epic driver - loft 10.5* - for five shots. The Epic gave me +3 yards average distance, but the trajectory was a bit lower than I liked.

 

I decided not to spend $500 to maybe gain 3 yards.

What's In The Bag (As of April 2023, post-MAX change + new putter)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5° (base loft); weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°... MD4: 54°, 58° ||  PutterΨSeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT, 33" shaft

Ball: 1. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

    * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind replaced MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

     Ψ  Backups:

  • Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip |
  • Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. weight removed) |
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Thats why i keep the Ping Rapture v1 10.5 around..thats my baseline Driver,the G5 was the other one..had 3 or 4 of each..the Razr Fit was good too..the 917 is the current Titleist😃   lands in the fairway and at 4 years old has depreciated to be great value.Recent driver prices..i dont get it....

2020 18 July mid winterNZ
Ping Rapture 2006 10.5
Nike VrS 3wood
Callaway Razr Edge5 wood

MP100=33 9876 5/mp63
54     RTX2
60     RTX2
ProPlatinum NewportTwo
2002 325gram +8.NewGrip
Dont hesitate to buy one!






 

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