Is it acceptable to play slow if you are scratch?

[Greenie]

I was playing my round yesterday. We teed off on one and there was a group behind us ready to tee off. They teed off right after us when we were out of range. The first hole is a par4,the second a par3, and the third is a par4. When were done teeing off on three they were getting to the second tee box. I mentioned how would you like to be stuck behind that group? I don't know what was ahead but we hit the wall on four and it was extremely slow the rest of the day. This allowed the group behind to stay in view of me most of the day.

 

I like to see good golf shots and like to watch good players. I had plenty of time to watch the group behind us and I soon noticed they were decent sticks. One player really stuck out not only because I thought he was good but because of his routine. It went like this. He would take 5 swings one handed behind his ball. He would stand behind his ball and visualize the shot opening and closing his eyes.  He would pick up his club several times behind the ball to get his aiming point. He would take around five practice swings then address the ball. Every shot was spot on. On the green he would move around the green scoping all the breaks. I seen him make a lot of good putts. From what I saw no doubt he was in the low 70's.

 

I'm a mid 80's player. I don't do much of any of that. I stand behind my ball and pick my aimimg point, address the ball, and hit the the ball. Sometimes I'll take one or two practice swings if my back is stiffening up from waiting. On the green I mark the ball if it is in somebodys way or I see dirt on it. Most of the time I walk up behind my ball bend down and get a read from behind and putt. The most time I spend is chipping. I'll take practice swings as needed until I feel the swing matches the distance I want to chip the ball.

 

I mentioned to the guy that rode with me to the course on the way home that that guy was really good but I could never play with a guy like that. It would drive me crazy waiting on him do to his routine. My friend said maybe he played good because he had a good routine and if I had a better routine I would play better too. 

 

I come accross posts on slow play all the time. It's not unusual to see posts about some guy plumb bobbing all over the green only to leave it 5ft short. Some guy in the fairway doing all of the above mentioned only to duff their ball down the fairway. It drives people crazy as it does me.

 

So my question is. Are these methods of routine acceptable when you are good?  And why does it appear not to proper when you are not as good and are trying to get a better rountine and play better?

 

 I'm not saying I want to mimick the guy I mention but I always thought I may play better if I had a better routine especially reading the green from every angle which I simply don't do.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Greenie

[Naptime]

Can't think of why they would get a pass on being inconsiderate.

[MtlJeff]

I shot 71 today in 3:10 as a foursome

 

Being slow is never acceptable!

[ThinkingPlus]

No it is never acceptable to be slow.  However, "slow" means different things to different people.  There are some who view anything over 3 hours as slow for 18 holes.  For some it is 3.5 hours.  Others it is 4 hours or more.  I find rabbits to be just as inconsiderate as the turtles.  Playing bad golf quickly has no merit the same as playing good golf slowly.

 

Additionally, better players do have the luxury of taking a little more time per shot because they usually make fewer strokes and have fewer search/penalty situations.  Abusing that luxury is poor etiquette.

[Greenie]

25 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

I shot 71 today in 3:10 as a foursome

 

Being slow is never acceptable!

Good round.. I know you are a good player and I enjoy  your posts.

 

Darn you I never thought I'd be a Ping man but I had to buy the G410 irons since you posted so much about them. LOL

 

I like to play fast and I always shoot better when I am able to do that. I shot a 79 earlier this week when our foursome played in 3:20. Sat it was 4:45 and it was ugly for me. My worst round in yrs. I can't seem to play well when I am waiting. 

 

I'm the one in our group that keeps us moving. My friends say if I took my time maybe I would play better. I seem to play better when I move at a faster pace. 

 

Seeing someone playing that well got me thinking maybe I rush a bit and I'm not as focussed but being like that isn't me and I think I'm more focussed when I am not waiting.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Greenie

[bcski]

A "good" player (everyone's definition of good is different") should be as fast as anyone else on the course.

[Soloman1]

Being the best player in a group can also be a pain.

You're waiting on everyone else to play their second shots after you tee off, sometimes they have to hit twice before it's your turn (ugh).

Then you have to wait for everyone to chip or get out of a bunker once or twice onto the green.

Then you generally have to wait for most people to putt because you're the closest to the hole.

Then the group behind you sees you as always being the last to putt, so they assume that you're the person holding up the group.

So the best player always has the pressure to hurry up, because they're the last to play.

 

It's hard to play ready golf when you're 30 yards in front of people. Especially if you're in shape, the founder and CEO and you hit every fairway with a 2-iron...

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Soloman1

[Phabs]

I shot under par yesterday and finished in 3:45 as a 4 some, on a public course…walking.  No it’s not acceptable to be slow and use your handicap as a crutch for your stupid slow play.   Problem isn’t usually the lower handicap guy playing slow, it’s usually the 35 handicapper with the white belt and matching outfit that wants to look like he’s a stick but he’s a chump.  Reads putts from both sides because he saw it on tv, range finds every shot from 300 in and constantly hits two tee balls per hole due the first one always being out in the junk. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Phabs

[Shilgy]

The player in the op seems to have drawn the ire of a few posts. And the alleged number of practice swings certainly did sound excessive.  What we don’t know was what happened before that. Did he dawdle when it was his turn to play? Did he have his yardage and club ready when it was his turn or did he wait to do that until everyone else had hit. There are  a lot of things that contribute to slow play and the immediate routine is one of the least time consuming but will usually draw the most complaints.

[Greenie]

2 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

The player in the op seems to have drawn the ire of a few posts. And the alleged number of practice swings certainly did sound excessive.  What we don’t know was what happened before that. Did he dawdle when it was his turn to play? Did he have his yardage and club ready when it was his turn or did he wait to do that until everyone else had hit. There are  a lot of things that contribute to slow play and the immediate routine is one of the least time consuming but will usually draw the most complaints.

He had his club and was ready to hit. When it was his turn to hit he then went through his routine as mentioned above. When it was his turn to putt he paced the green from different angles and putted.

[caniac6]

most good players I play with are fast. I get my yardage, and hit it. I'm 66, and walk, so I don't have time and energy to waste on practice swings.

[MtlJeff]

1 hour ago, ThinkingPlus said:

No it is never acceptable to be slow.  However, "slow" means different things to different people.  There are some who view anything over 3 hours as slow for 18 holes.  For some it is 3.5 hours.  Others it is 4 hours or more.  I find rabbits to be just as inconsiderate as the turtles.  Playing bad golf quickly has no merit the same as playing good golf slowly.

 

Additionally, better players do have the luxury of taking a little more time per shot because they usually make fewer strokes and have fewer search/penalty situations.  Abusing that luxury is poor etiquette.

 

Slow to me just means slower than what the course posts as an acceptable time. Usually at private clubs it's around 4 hours. Public I usually see 4:15 or 4:30

 

Our club recently did a Stableford tournament of the A players and there was a rule than any group finishing in over 4:15 would have points removed from their score. To my knowledge no groups were penalized. And this was foursomes in a tournament putting everything out. (At least until double bogey)

 

I think playing in 3:30 is reasonable but I don't force that on people. If the club says 4 than 4 is fine

 

[Soloman1]

If there's anything I've learned being reincarnated a few times is that the best answer to almost everything is "it depends."

[Shilgy]

41 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Slow to me just means slower than what the course posts as an acceptable time. Usually at private clubs it's around 4 hours. Public I usually see 4:15 or 4:30

 

Our club recently did a Stableford tournament of the A players and there was a rule than any group finishing in over 4:15 would have points removed from their score. To my knowledge no groups were penalized. And this was foursomes in a tournament putting everything out. (At least until double bogey)

 

I think playing in 3:30 is reasonable but I don't force that on people. If the club says 4 than 4 is fine

 

My private course uses the 4 hours you mentioned…..but it is a maximum time, not a target or acceptable time.  Admittedly hat is something that some members need to be reminded of…..often!

[tatertot]

No.

 

Except ... no.

 

[ezpz]

No it's never acceptable and even less so when it is because of a player who has internalized some kind of crazy routine (more forgivable if it's incidental on a course with high rough and wayward driving or something). These kinds of players are pretty annoying because you try to figure out why there are so slow but it's their entire game that is slow. My worst experience was caddying a local pro event, these guys put together a 5 hour round with noone in front of them just by being "meticulous", long routines, swing drills, walking off pitches from 40 yds out etc. Can't imgine it's helping them either....

[cadoipi]

"Is it acceptable to play slow if you are scratch?" -No!

 

However it sounds like the group behind you was playing at a pace that "matched the speed of traffic" on the course.  Perhaps this guy often plays the course at similar times and knows it will be impossible to play in less than 4.5 hours given the situation on the course.  With this information he has a choice, either play fast just so he can hurry up and wait before every tee/approach shot or play slow enough that he is never waiting (but without delaying the the group behind him since there is no where for them to go). 

 

Perhaps his elaborate pre-shot routine is special to situations like this where the course is backed up and he purposely does it so he does not have to wait a few minutes before each tee/approach shot.  I see no problem with this as long as he is playing at "the speed of traffic on the course"

[SUPERG]

More than likely if the guy cut his routine in half he’d score the same. Probably just anxious and nervy when he has to perform a task. I’ve got a guy in my group like me who’s in the 70s and we play rather quickly, other guy in the group takes forever and shoots 70s, the last one takes forever and never breaks 90 go figure. 

[Greenie]

4 minutes ago, cadoipi said:

"Is it acceptable to play slow if you are scratch?" -No!

 

However it sounds like the group behind you was playing at a pace that "matched the speed of traffic" on the course.  Perhaps this guy often plays the course at similar times and knows it will be impossible to play in less than 4.5 hours given the situation on the course.  With this information he has a choice, either play fast just so he can hurry up and wait before every tee/approach shot or play slow enough that he is never waiting (but without delaying the the group behind him since there is no where for them to go). 

 

Perhaps his elaborate pre-shot routine is special to situations like this where the course is backed up and he purposely does it so he does not have to wait a few minutes before each tee/approach shot.  I see no problem with this as long as he is playing at "the speed of traffic on the course"

Well I thought about that myself. 

 

When we teed off we didn't know that was to be the case about it being slow. We were pulling away from 3 tee box and there just getting to the second tee box. I thought they must have had problems on the first hole. So right out the gate the were behind before the course slowed down on 4. As slow as it was they never got closer than a half a hole out of place. The were usually a hole behind. I get it. I would like to fall back too when it is  slow. I'd rather be waiting to tee off on a hole and be able to play the hole without waiting.. I never thought that was right even though I would like to put some distance between us and the log jam to be able to do that.

 

So if everyone did the same thing wouldn't that back up the course even more?

[Greenie]

5 minutes ago, SUPERG said:

More than likely if the guy cut his routine in half he’d score the same. Probably just anxious and nervy when he has to perform a task. I’ve got a guy in my group like me who’s in the 70s and we play rather quickly, other guy in the group takes forever and shoots 70s, the last one takes forever and never breaks 90 go figure. 

They were a threesome. The other two guys were decent to. The other two rode together and teed off first on every hole. Then it was this guy. His routine was a bit much to watch but hey I'm an 80's player so who am I to say anything. One of the other guys holed out on a par5 from 180 with an iron. If was fun to watch. I saw the other two guys hit some bad shots though. But this guy with his routine never missed a shot that I saw.

[cadoipi]

18 minutes ago, Greenie said:

When we teed off we didn't know that was to be the case about it being slow. We were pulling away from 3 tee box and there just getting to the second tee box. I thought they must have had problems on the first hole. So right out the gate the were behind before the course slowed down on 4.

 

That is why I said perhaps they knew it would slow down (not uncommon in the middle of the day on a Saturday).

I view it like a traffic jam, where on average every car is taking 5 hours to travel a 100 mile segment of road (and you cannot pass other cars).  If the car in front of you goes "slow" at 20mph for the entire 5 hours or spends 2 hours going fast at 50mph and 3 hours standing still (alternating between 10 mins of moving and 15 mins of standing still), you are still going to get through the traffic jam in the same period of time.

 

If a group is playing at a constant rate (mins/hole) and continues to catch up (within half a hole) to the group in front of them, then they are not playing slow given the conditions on the course.

Edited June 27, 2021 by cadoipi

[Greenie]

9 minutes ago, cadoipi said:

 

That is why I said perhaps they knew it would slow down (not uncommon in the middle of the day on a Saturday).

I view it like a traffic jam, where on average every car is taking 5 hours to travel a 100 mile segment of road (and you cannot pass other cars).  If the car in front of you goes "slow" at 20mph for the entire 5 hours or spends 2 hours going fast at 50mph and 3 hours standing still (alternating between 10 mins of moving and 15 mins of standing still), you are still going to get through the traffic jam in the same period of time.

 

If a group is playing at a constant rate (mins/hole) and continues to catch up (within half a hole) to the group in front of them, then they are not playing slow given the conditions on the course.

Interesting how you replied. I always thought if you are a hole, usually a hole and 1/2 behind for them and there is a gap you are not keeping pace. Even though you know if you caught up you can't go anywhere.

[Shilgy]

Ya know….on second thought…..I’m trying to figure out how the OP saw so many of this guys shots if that group was behind by “half a hole to a full hole the entire round”  without being slow himself!  😎

[cadoipi]

3 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Ya know….on second thought…..I’m trying to figure out how the OP saw so many of this guys shots if that group was behind by “half a hole to a full hole the entire round”  without being slow himself!  😎

 

It sounds like OP was waiting to tee off on each hole...  So between waiting and walking off the tee box they got to see lots of approach shots and drives from the previous hole.

Edited June 27, 2021 by cadoipi

[MtlJeff]

4 hours ago, Greenie said:

Good round.. I know you are a good player and I enjoy  your posts.

 

Darn you I never thought I'd be a Ping man but I had to buy the G410 irons since you posted so much about them. LOL

 

I like to play fast and I always shoot better when I am able to do that. I shot a 79 earlier this week when our foursome played in 3:20. Sat it was 4:45 and it was ugly for me. My worst round in yrs. I can't seem to play well when I am waiting. 

 

I'm the one in our group that keeps us moving. My friends say if I took my time maybe I would play better. I seem to play better when I move at a faster pace. 

 

Seeing someone playing that well got me thinking maybe I rush a bit and I'm not as focussed but being like that isn't me and I think I'm more focussed when I am not waiting.

 

I hope you're liking those G410s!!!!

 

You might not want to check my signature LOL --I'm using almost a full Cobra bag now. However i still get the urge to pull out the G series backup bag quite often

[Shilgy]

9 minutes ago, cadoipi said:

 

It sounds like OP was waiting to tee off on each hole...  So between waiting and walking off the tee box they got to see lots of approach shots and drives from the previous hole.

It was sarcasm.  😉

[Z1ggy16]

Off the Tee or fairway lie, IMO a practice swing is just barely above useless. Maybe if you're really trying to feel a particular shot that you don't do often (say you're really trying to hit a low fade, and you normally hit high draws) then sure, 1-2 practice swings might help.

 

From the rough, especially around the green.. I think it's fair that you should take 3, 4 maybe even 5 brushes through the grass to get a feel for how fast you need to swing to get the ball to where you want.

 

On the putting green, I think you can do your "pre read" coming up to the green and while others go if you aren't away. Getting your initial read plus standing behind your ball/flag can be done all while others go. This shouldn't take more than 60 seconds TOTAL, and if you're away first, you probably should go behind the flag or next to it first, before you get to your ball so you aren't talking all over.

 

Pro's can take 5-6 hours to play because they are playing for millions. Just because you go out and shoot a 73 doesn't mean you can slow everybody down. 5 practice swings, a bunch of waggles... crap, you've got the talent, just get your target, get in and go.

[Greenie]

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I hope you're liking those G410s!!!!

 

You might not want to check my signature LOL --I'm using almost a full Cobra bag now. However i still get the urge to pull out the G series backup bag quite often

Haha Yes I know.

I was nothing but a Cobra guy from my early 90's until I came on here in 2009. You guys temp people. I soon bought TEE fairways and then about the time Puma bought Cobra out I switched to Mizuno irons. Ricky orange wasn't my thing. I have always played a Cobra driver until this yr. and still carry older Cobra hybrids. 

 

I still play my Cobra S2's from time to time the last clubs I believe made under the old co.

 

I'm glad you went mostly Cobra. LOL. 

 

 

[Greenie]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

Ya know….on second thought…..I’m trying to figure out how the OP saw so many of this guys shots if that group was behind by “half a hole to a full hole the entire round”  without being slow himself!  😎

Haha good one. This course is layed out that you can see other holes, sometimes 2 holes around you. At one spot you can see three other holes. I spent my time watching good players playing while I waited on the group ahead.  Sometimes I rode to a spot under a shade tree while waiting just so I could see them hit. Yes I am the course stalker.

[MPAndreassi]

I see a lot of long worded answers that I didn’t read. 
 

My answer is no.