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Taking Lessons and Not Improving?


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28 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

The best instructors teach address fundamentals (grip-posture-alignment). From there a player's naturally effective swing will emerge.

 

There is no "fundamental" or universal grip, posture or alignment. That's old thinking.

 

That's from the days when instructors said things like, "Don't hold it too tight or too loose. Hold it juuuust right."

 

What the hell does that mean?

 

Or, "Not too bent over and not too upright. Get in the juuuuust right posture."

 

People are different. The best instructors find out the grip, posture and alignment that suits a person's natural tendancies and build upon that. They can make them twice the player in half the time.

 

What, you think everyone should have the same grip?

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On 7/2/2021 at 4:13 AM, bcski said:

Well you need the right instructor that will work with what you bring to the table.  Here is an old stat:

 

It takes 100,000 CORRECT movements to ingrain a new muscle memory...  This is why change is hard in all sports.

 

Plus the practice should be getting done in small drills for a couple hours a day to really ingrain the movements...

 

 

holy bro science figure..

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On 7/2/2021 at 5:05 AM, Soloman1 said:

Some people will never be good golfers. Why do they think that they should be?

 

Do they think that if they take up the guitar they're going to be as good as Eric Clapton?

 

Clapton wouldnt be any good if he held the guitar upside down.

 

imo your swing technique has to be half reasonable before you can decide if you are any good or not. The vast majority never get close.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

 

What, you think everyone should have the same grip?

 Like most things, there is an easy way to do it and a hard way. Learning and using fundamentally sound grip technique makes the game much, much, much easier. Certainly there have been Tour players with bad grips, but they readily admit that they're doing it the hard way.

 

Here is Jack Nicklaus talking about his address technique fundamentals, including the grip:

 

 

 

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On 7/1/2021 at 11:34 PM, leekgolf said:

My friend had been going for lessons for several years to a franchised golf instruction operation. He took a few of us there a few years ago to play a virtual round on their really cool simulator and invited me another time to watch one of his lessons. He really seemed to like the lessons. I think he took them roughly once per week for several years.

 

 

 

 

Said it before but it makes no sense to have a lesson every week. Whatever was taught in the first lesson (hopefully grip and stance at least) your friend should have gone away and practised JUST that for weeks and months, maybe with one checkup, before finally going back to work on the next element of his swing..

 

You arent going to make a asignificant change in a week, I dont care if you practise full time. It takes time and focused effort.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Paddy_2_Iron said:

 

It's all you can really teach the student, especially older ones.   I still think genetics plays a huge role in this.  I play with some former college and hockey players and these guys have insane club face control.  

 

Competent instructors understand that address technique fundamentals (grip-posture-alignment) actually determine all the swing's positions-tempo-rhythm. The legendary teacher Tommy Armour declared he wanted 6 months to teach a student the grip. Nicklaus instructor Jack Grout refused to work with a student who would not use the grip he taught. Grout did not want to waste his time or the student's time. 

All the positions people talk of about the swing .....such as plane, pivot, weight transfer, lag, turn, speed, timing, balance are directly related to address technique. Grip-posture-alignment work together to produce a consistently effective and repeatable golf swing. When a top player suffers from a less than good ball striking day he double checks his grip-posture-alignment, knowing one of those three address fundamentals is the root cause. This was true 100 years ago and is true today.

What's changed is that the advent of video and other technology has given charlatan instructors the tools to sell gullible customers band aids and snake oil.

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I laugh when I hear that there is anything natural about throwing a ball. One of the funniest things I ever saw was a work fun event where we had our entire Paris office over here in the US and we spent an afternoon playing softball. Most of these people had never really thrown a ball in any sort of athletic endeavor. They could hit the ball (sorta), they could run (if you told them where to run), but throwing was a complete disaster. Some balls went sideways, some straight into the ground, a few went backwards. One guy in the outfield did what came naturally when the ball came to him - he kicked it (pretty skillfully, I'd say).

 

Yeah, yeah - our ancestors threw rocks and spears to put food in their mouths. But they had to learn how to do so. It's not like passing gas - it doesn't just come naturally.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Fairway14 said:

Competent instructors understand that address technique fundamentals

 

The guy who just won the USGA Senior Open has won over $70 million in career earnings and who has the lowest single round score on record for the PGA Tour overlaps two fingers of his right hand over his left and stands way too close to the ball. Those "fundamentals" teachers would be pooping in their pants.

 

Hey, call me a radical, but the optimum 3 dimensional geometry of the club head at impact is the fundamental of success in golf. How you get there is a different recipe for different people.

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25 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

 

The guy who just won the USGA Senior Open has won over $70 million in career earnings and who has the lowest single round score on record for the PGA Tour overlaps two fingers of his right hand over his left and stands way too close to the ball. Those "fundamentals" teachers would be pooping in their pants.

 

Hey, call me a radical, but the optimum 3 dimensional geometry of the club head at impact is the fundamental of success in golf. How you get there is a different recipe for different people.

 

As previously written in this thread, there is an easy way to do things and a hard way. Furyk, Couples, Trevino and several other Tour players had great success using unorthodox address technique.  But why copy bad grips or postures or alignment that  worked well for a hundred players rather than  fundamentally sound grip-posture-alignment that  worked great  for tens of thousands of players ? Again, there is an easy way to do things and a hard way.

Charlatan golf instructors are well known for telling students " your grip is fine, look at Azinger, he had a strong grip too and he did fine". Or, "don't let anybody tell you your swing tempo is too fast, Nick Price won lots of money with a fast tempo". The instructors out their faking it tell naive students what they want to hear and take their money. The competent instructors know the easiest path to an effective repeating swing is sound address technique fundamentals, so that is what they teach. If that's "uncomfortable" for the student, or not what the student wants to hear, too bad. Remember, the student is not the teacher.

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Srixon H65  19* 3 hybrid and 22* 4 hybrid

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Well, about 40 years ago I got frustrated with my game as an 18 handicap and took a series of lessons.  I improved about 8 strokes on my handicap in a short time and then stayed stayed mostly in the 10 to 12 range up until I retired a year ago and improved a couple of strokes.  I have taken some lessons since the first set including a year and a half of steady lessons a few years ago.  I can say that I learned some things from the lessons but never really improved from taking them.   

 

LOL about the only thing left in my swing from the original series of lessons is my grip.  I was taught at that time to setup with a lot of bend from the hips "feeling like I had a bucket of water on my back".  I was young but my back would be killing me after a lesson!  

 

My main recommendation as far as lessons go is to get them early!  I tell this to beginners all the time and they almost always say that they are going to figure it out on their own and then take some lessons later.  Argh!  People are stupid.  Luckily it is only a golf swing that does not really matter much in the grand scheme of things.

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3 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

But why copy bad grips or postures or alignment that  worked well for a hundred players rather than  fundamentally sound grip-posture-alignment that  worked great  for tens of thousands of players ?

 

You left out the millions and millions and millions of golfers with "fundamentally sound" grips, posture and alignment who couldn't break 90 if their life depended on it . . .

 

<insert evil laugh> Hahaha

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2 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

You left out the millions and millions and millions of golfers with "fundamentally sound" grips, posture and alignment who couldn't break 90 if their life depended on it . . .

 

 I've never seen one.

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On 7/1/2021 at 6:34 PM, leekgolf said:

," I went to that instructor regularly for three years and I realized I'm not getting any better. I practice what I've been taught and my handicap hasn't changed the entire time I've taken these lessons."

I can't speak to your friend's specific situation.  I'll agree with others that getting better can mean any manner of things, and that swing changes or even improved ball striking might not necessarily lead to a lower handicap.

 

When I started lessons, I told my instructor that I wanted to eliminate tops and chunks from the fairway.  After a couple months, I'd more or less achieved that goal.  Now I'm focused on getting more consistent carry numbers from my irons.  My point is that as you improve, your metrics for success change, and it's hard to really track overall improvement.  If your sole aim is to lower your handicap, then that's great as it provides a very specific metric and can be tracked over time.  But if so, I don't think golftec or the like is ideal.  In my experience, they focus more on swing and ball striking, and less about short game, putting, or course management (the kinds of things that can really help you lower your scores).

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A poor ball striker becoming a good ball striker is rare. It takes passion and time  If someone wants it bad enough, they will find a way. The reality is that most don’t have enough of either. There is a myth perpetuated by some that you need to find one teacher and stay married to their every word for eternity. I have taken lessons from several teachers and have learned valuable things from each one but ultimately there wasn’t a single one that had all of the answers for me. They were sources of information and ideas that helped me educate myself about the swing which enabled me to work through things so that I could own my swing and not have to depend on someone else to save me when things go south. I don’t claim to have all the answers, and am always eager to learn more. 

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What would an example of a "random practice" routine be for a new golfer?

 

Maybe 10 swings working on the takeaway, 10 swings on rotation, 10 on shallowing, etc, etc? Maybe with different clubs?  Would that be an example of random practice?

 

As opposed to 50 swings with the same club working on the same thing.

 

Thanks

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30 minutes ago, Newbie15 said:

What would an example of a "random practice" routine be for a new golfer?

 

Maybe 10 swings working on the takeaway, 10 swings on rotation, 10 on shallowing, etc, etc? Maybe with different clubs?  Would that be an example of random practice?

 

As opposed to 50 swings with the same club working on the same thing.

 

Thanks

Hitting the same club to different targets that are various distances and doing this with different clubs throughout a range sesh. Definitely don't think working on different swing mechanics/feels at different times w/ different clubs throughout a range sesh would be beneficial. 

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The majority of people who "take lessons" only take full swing lessons even though full swings account for less than half of the strokes you take in a round. 

 

If they mixed in short game and on-course lessons they'd probably see their scores drop faster. 

 

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I think one of the biggest problems is golfers try to address everything, every club.  Like others have mentioned there is not one perfect way to go about it.

13 hours ago, CCTxGolf said:

Sounds like as much as he plays and practices he has simply just hit his ceiling. Can’t get any better.

 

there’s a big difference between trying go from a +1 to a +3 and a 15 to a 7.
 

Once you get as good as you can get it’s a lot harder to get fractionally better

 

This is the facts of life.  EVERY golfer has a ceiling, for some it might be 25 handicap, others it might be 15.  Who knows.  I spent hours upon hours practicing and got a little better, the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.  I live in the 80's - 90s that's who I am.  I am okay with that, and since acceptance the game has become a whole lot more fun.  

 

The funny thing is I rarely get blown away by random match ups.  Most golfers in reality aren't that good.

Edited by Paddy_2_Iron
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Wooh boy this was a fun one to read through. I'm a crappy 13 hcp so take everything I say with that knowledge.

 

I believe everyone has a fundamental swing DNA the same way pitchers throw differently and basketball players shoot differently. To stray too far from this DNA creates those situations where the player is a miserable wreck after lessons and their handicap explodes.

 

There are certainly examples of full overhauls that work, but they take a level of dedication/time that most reasonable people don't have. In most instances, if you did not learn a particular swing theory/model as a child, you will engrain your own DNA into your swing. 


A good coach will have a basic approach they take to the swing that can be molded to the individual they are working with. There is not perfect way or "easier" way to do something. There are flaws and advantages to every approach, and you need to find the one that works within your particular biomechanics. 


To chase a perfect swing is to chase a ghost. To assume there is a "right" way to swing is a bad way to approach golf. (Your paradigm is going to collapse like a castle of sand when someone with a "wrong" swing wallops you) 

 

We hear a lot about "match ups" from great coaches. I think that's the wave of the future. There is not a singular approach, but there are perimeters to the swing. Exist within those perimeters and you just need to find the particular match ups that work to deliver the club on the right path, at the right angle. 

 

Or you can keep believing that once you have a perfect swing you'll play perfect golf. 

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42 minutes ago, me05501 said:

The majority of people who "take lessons" only take full swing lessons even though full swings account for less than half of the strokes you take in a round. 

 

If they mixed in short game and on-course lessons they'd probably see their scores drop faster. 

 

 

Playing a lot is critical too.  You find out what works and what doesn't under pressure.  You might be able to flop in the 60 all day on the range or chipping green but get into a game time situation you crap the bed.  

 

That one component has really help me a lot. I am not a talented golfer, but I  play a lot.  I designed shots for my game in certain situations that helps me score.  The only way I figured that out is playing.

Edited by Paddy_2_Iron
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I think there's also a mental switch that at some point has to get flipped in the right direction. 

 

In the beginning it's about managing expectations and a lot of beginners do slightly better when they don't expect anything. But eventually you have to adjust your expectations toward better outcomes. 

 

The guys I know who have played for years and years and never really improved are the ones who don't set expectations for themselves. They're HOPING things turn out okay but not EXPECTING that outcome. It's a negative mindset. They're always playing defensively, and whenever something bad happens it reinforces their negative expectations. 

 

Better players I know expect better results. They don't stand on the tee thinking "I hope I don't ____________." They're crafting a strategy for getting the ball in the hole with as few strokes as possible. 

 

I've recently witnessed my friend's teenage son go through this exact transformation. Over the last month or two he has gone from consistent 90's golf to low 80's and a few high 70's. He doesn't really know yet what's going on, but his dad and I can see that his expectations have adjusted to what he's able to do. 

Edited by me05501
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14 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

As previously written in this thread, there is an easy way to do things and a hard way. Furyk, Couples, Trevino and several other Tour players had great success using unorthodox address technique.  But why copy bad grips or postures or alignment that  worked well for a hundred players rather than  fundamentally sound grip-posture-alignment that  worked great  for tens of thousands of players ? Again, there is an easy way to do things and a hard way.

Charlatan golf instructors are well known for telling students " your grip is fine, look at Azinger, he had a strong grip too and he did fine". Or, "don't let anybody tell you your swing tempo is too fast, Nick Price won lots of money with a fast tempo". The instructors out their faking it tell naive students what they want to hear and take their money. The competent instructors know the easiest path to an effective repeating swing is sound address technique fundamentals, so that is what they teach. If that's "uncomfortable" for the student, or not what the student wants to hear, too bad. Remember, the student is not the teacher.

 

This, I think it depends on the teacher. I went for 2 years to a coach that was fascinated with Trackman and data. We spent half the lesson just recording shots and looking at TM data. He would send me a TM file after the lesson. It was overwhelming and overkill. "You're 3 degrees down"...okay, what do I do with that? I now understand many of the LM numbers better than I ever did, but I didn't really improve my game or scores much. I was (and still am) playing 3 18 hole rounds per week, and hitting the range for 1-2 hours 4-5 days per week. NOW, I am working with an older coach. I talked to a lot of the better scratch/+ handicaps that I play with, and they all gave this guys name...like it was uniform. He was a college golf teammate at SMU with Payne Stewart and is well thought of around here. He broke down my setup and changed/tweaked a few things. My ball striking improved almost instantly. My handicap is dropping, and I am playing much better. He told me over 90% of amateur golfers issues relate to setup, takeaway, posture, and grip. I don't know if he's right..I just know in 3 months he's helped me 1000% more than the guy I worked with for 2 years. 

 

M

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6 minutes ago, physasst said:

 

This, I think it depends on the teacher. I went for 2 years to a coach that was fascinated with Trackman and data. We spent half the lesson just recording shots and looking at TM data. He would send me a TM file after the lesson. It was overwhelming and overkill. "You're 3 degrees down"...okay, what do I do with that? I now understand many of the LM numbers better than I ever did, but I didn't really improve my game or scores much. I was (and still am) playing 3 18 hole rounds per week, and hitting the range for 1-2 hours 4-5 days per week. NOW, I am working with an older coach. I talked to a lot of the better scratch/+ handicaps that I play with, and they all gave this guys name...like it was uniform. He was a college golf teammate at SMU with Payne Stewart and is well thought of around here. He broke down my setup and changed/tweaked a few things. My ball striking improved almost instantly. My handicap is dropping, and I am playing much better. He told me over 90% of amateur golfers issues relate to setup, takeaway, posture, and grip. I don't know if he's right..I just know in 3 months he's helped me 1000% more than the guy I worked with for 2 years. 

 

M

 

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8 minutes ago, physasst said:

 

This, I think it depends on the teacher. I went for 2 years to a coach that was fascinated with Trackman and data. We spent half the lesson just recording shots and looking at TM data. He would send me a TM file after the lesson. It was overwhelming and overkill. "You're 3 degrees down"...okay, what do I do with that? I now understand many of the LM numbers better than I ever did, but I didn't really improve my game or scores much. I was (and still am) playing 3 18 hole rounds per week, and hitting the range for 1-2 hours 4-5 days per week. NOW, I am working with an older coach. I talked to a lot of the better scratch/+ handicaps that I play with, and they all gave this guys name...like it was uniform. He was a college golf teammate at SMU with Payne Stewart and is well thought of around here. He broke down my setup and changed/tweaked a few things. My ball striking improved almost instantly. My handicap is dropping, and I am playing much better. He told me over 90% of amateur golfers issues relate to setup, takeaway, posture, and grip. I don't know if he's right..I just know in 3 months he's helped me 1000% more than the guy I worked with for 2 years. 

 

M

 

I can believe that. I had a great session yesterday on hitting driver and we used zero technology. 

 

Eventually we will have an entire generation of teaching pros who have only ever learned to give Trackman lessons. I'm glad there are still some great teachers around who know how to use it but don't rely on it entirely. 

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24 minutes ago, me05501 said:

I think there's also a mental switch that at some point has to get flipped in the right direction. 

 

In the beginning it's about managing expectations and a lot of beginners do slightly better when they don't expect anything. But eventually you have to adjust your expectations toward better outcomes. 

 

The guys I know who have played for years and years and never really improved are the ones who don't set expectations for themselves. They're HOPING things turn out okay but not EXPECTING that outcome. It's a negative mindset. They're always playing defensively, and whenever something bad happens it reinforces their negative expectations. 

 

Better players I know expect better results. They don't stand on the tee thinking "I hope I don't ____________." They're crafting a strategy for getting the ball in the hole with as few strokes as possible. 

 

I've recently witnessed my friend's teenage son go through this exact transformation. Over the last month or two he has gone from consistent 90's golf to low 80's and a few high 70's. He doesn't really know yet what's going on, but his dad and I can see that his expectations have adjusted to what he's able to do. 

That is an interesting take on expectations.  My experience with expectations is a little different.  In the past I would often shoot a low score or have a good range session and then expect to go low the next time out.  While playing this expectation of hitting good shots would cause me to put a lot of pressure on myself and then get angry when I did not hit good shots.  LOL I see this happening all the time with average golfers.  The expect to play better then they are and then get mad when they play at their level.

 

I learned this expectations lesson a long time ago but I still get caught up in it once in a while and then I need to remind myself to be humble and accept that I am not hitting it real well on a particular day.  When I can do that and simply look forward to hitting the next shot or playing the next hole forgetting about the previous holes I usually can get back on track to some extent.

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Irons: 6 through wedge PXG 0311 with Steelfiber i110cw shaft
Wedge: 50 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 S Grind
Wedge: 56 deg 10 deg bounce Jaws S Grind
Wedge: 62 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 C Grind (bent to 62 degrees from 60 degrees)
Wedges with steelfiber i110 shafts.
Putter: Strokelab EXO 7; 39.25 inches; 77 degree lie angle; Takimac arthritic grip

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6 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

That is an interesting take on expectations.  My experience with expectations is a little different.  In the past I would often shoot a low score or have a good range session and then expect to go low the next time out.  While playing this expectation of hitting good shots would cause me to put a lot of pressure on myself and then get angry when I did not hit good shots.  LOL I see this happening all the time with average golfers.  The expect to play better then they are and then get mad when they play at their level.

 

I learned this expectations lesson a long time ago but I still get caught up in it once in a while and then I need to remind myself to be humble and accept that I am not hitting it real well on a particular day.  When I can do that and simply look forward to hitting the next shot or playing the next hole forgetting about the previous holes I usually can get back on track to some extent.

 

The Golf Gods are always on the lookout for those of us who think we've figured it out, no doubt! But then expecting failure invites it.

 

It's a balance. 

 

I've had a few rounds lately in the upper 80's and was disappointed in that outcome, but it was only a year ago when I would have felt like that was a pretty good day for me. My expectations are higher now but not unreasonably so. When I shoot 88 now I tell myself "that's not my game, I can do better."

 

I like that mindset. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by me05501

Callaway Big Bertha 21 9* w/ HZRDUS Yellow 6.0

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Srixon Z785 AW

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Cleveland Huntington Beach #11S

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    • 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
      2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Tuesday #1
      2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Tuesday #2
       
       
      Adam Scott - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Justin Rose - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Collin Morikawa - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Jason Day - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Justin Thomas - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Erik Van Rooyen - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Matt Jones - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Cam Smith - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Byeong Hun An - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Min Kyu - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Joohyung Kim - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Jordan Spieth - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Lucas Glover - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Keegan Bradley - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
       
       
       
      Gary Woodland's new Cameron putter - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Kevin Na's new Odyssey/Toulon putter - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Jucie wedges & Proto irons - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
       
       
       
       
      • 6 replies
    • 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open WITB Photos- Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here...
       
      Links:
       
      Harry Higgs - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Ian Poulter - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Harry Higgs - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Matt NeSmith - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Doug Ghim - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      New Cameron Las Vegas covers - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      New Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX shafts - 2021 Shriners Hospitals doe Children Open
       
       

       
        • Like
      • 14 replies
    • 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship - Discussion and Links
      2021 Sanderson Farms Championship - Monday
      2021 Sanderson Farms Championship - Tuesday #1
      2021 Sanderson Farms Championship - Tuesday #2
      2021 Sanderson Farms Championship - Tuesday #3
       
      2021 Sanderson Farms Championship - Tuesday #4
       
      WITBs
      Aaron Rai - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Brian Stuard - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Eugenio Chacarra - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Davis Riley - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Brice Garnett - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Curtis Thompson - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Richy Werenski - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Andy Ogletree - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Will Zalatoris - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Stephan Jaeger - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Kevin Chappell - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Jonas Blixt - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Kevin Streelman - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Sam Burns - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Matthew Wolff - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Jimmy Walker - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Gary Woodland - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Davis Thompson - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Sam Saunders - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship  
      Special Galleries
       
      Odyssey putters - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship  
      Cameron putters - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship  
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      • 5 replies
    • 2021 Fortinet Championship - Discussion and Links
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #1
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #2
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #3
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #4
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #5
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #6
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #7
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #8
       
       
      New Ping putter - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      New Bettinardi putters & Cover - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Ping Putters - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Odyssey putters - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Cameron putter and new ball marker - 2021 Fortinet Championship
       
       
      Sneds - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Peter Uihlein - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Charles Howell, III - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Scott Piercy - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Brandan Steele - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Mito Pereira - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Kevin Tway - WITB -2021 Fortinet Championship
      Joseph Bramlett - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
       
       
       
      • 19 replies
    • 2021 Tour Championship - Discussion and Comments
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      Odyssey putters - 2021 Tour Championship
      LA Golf putter shafts - 2021 Tour Championship
       
       
       
      • 25 replies

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