Questionable BST practice?

[Brennanf]

So I was working a deal to buy a set of irons last night through our PM system.   Seller listed the price OBO so I offered less than asking.   Seller countered between asking and my offer(pretty standard in most everything I have ever purchased).  I promptly accepted his offer and asked for PayPal info.   The next PM was him saying he received a "full price" offer and he sold them to the other buyer.  When I responded back saying I was upset,  buyer was surprised.   Told him I would have payed full.  He asked why I didn't offer that to start,  and I had to say we already agreed on less so why would I do that.  I was miffed.

 

Seller then gave me a lecture on how he was following common,  quality practice on WRX because he had the phrase "full price offers take precedence" in his add.  I then asked what is the statute of limitations in that statement?  Can you rescind a deal up until shipping?   To me,  you agree to a deal then you honor it.   If you wanted more money,  be upfront with the buyer and ask for it.   Is this practice pervasive here? Anyone else find this reprehensible?   *Rant off*

[KC13]

"Statute of limitations", LOL.... depends on the choice of law 😑

 

To the extent money was not received on sellers end, I would of taken the full price offer to.  I think to often here people immediately offer below asking price to try and score a deal.  IMO, the prices here are more than fair 99% of the time.  Maybe next time offer what was asked within the listing and you would of had the irons headed your way.  Apologies if this comes off wrong, but you sound "upset" because you were being cheap on an item it sounds like you really wanted.

 

Verdict: OP, you're clearly on WRX for equipment purposes and I gather because we are a bunch of club junkies with exclusive gear.  You'll have plenty of opportunities to buy more gear in the future but I side with Seller.  Best to you.  

 

- KC 

[gibbiesmalls]

I'm with the buyer on this one.  An agreement is an agreement.  If the seller had agreed to sell it at a certain price point, that's the second he should have stopped trying to sell the item for more. That's how I've handled it in the past if I sell something, agree to an offer, and receive full asking price offer immediately after - I don't back out of my agreement because someone else offered full asking. The only exception would have been had the buyer delayed in making payment. Even then, I would have sent the buyer a message indicating if payment wasn't received in X time, I'd be going with the full asking price.

 

When I've made offers in the past I've had sellers tell me "I'm gonna give it a few hours to see if I get full asking... I'll get back to you" or "No thanks, I'm firm on price". That's the proper thing to do if you're looking for asking price - rescinding on a "verbal" agreement/deal already reached is bush league.

 

Though I think the buyer is in the right, I don't think I'd be miffed enough to make this post however. Statute of limitations or not. lol

 

 

[Abh159]

I'm sort of in the middle on this one.

 

I mean on one hand, the item was listed as OBO and the OP clearly did not make the best offer. To that end I think the OP is overreacting a bit. If he really wanted the item he should have made a full price offer instead of trying to get it at a discount. 

 

On the other hand the seller agreed to a price and then backed out after (fortunately before any payment was made). It's definitely a shady business practice, but this is just an internet forum after and people can generally conduct their "business" however the he** they want.

 

Either way, I don't think this situation warrants a post on the matter or any negative feedback for either party. Also, I'm not too sure what all this "statute of limitations" and "precedence" nonsense it about...

 

 

[Greenie]

So if I understand this right you were discussing a price ,agreed on price and when you wanted to pay he let you know he sold it at full price. If the payment wasn't sent or accepted then I don't see a problem with what he did especially since he mentioned full price takes precedence. If he received your payment then they are in the wrong. At what point is it a done deal? When the seller has your payment IMO.

 

I always say money talks. If it is something I really want and I am willing to pay asking price I pay it. Any offer amount less than asking you always risk someone coming along and buying it out from under you. 

 

Their statement "full price offers take precedence" would have told me not to fool around with offers if I really wanted it and was willing to pay full price in the first place. 

 

 

[VNutz]

No paypal information given, no money changed hands, no negotiations are final until that happens. On ebay you can negotiate with multiple buyers at the same time, no different here. I've learned in my time here as a buyer that if you really want something the best way to guarantee that is to pay the asking price and not to haggle just to save a few bucks.

[Brennanf]

Would have paid the asking price if seller didn't offer less.   At that point,  I was ready to pay as I thought deal was done. 

 

Honestly,  not even worried about the clubs.   I am still taken aback by the number of people that see nothing wrong with agreeing to a deal then backing out. I was raised your word is is your word.   Maybe I'm too old to internet. Lol

Edited July 2, 2021 by Brennanf

[KC13]

15 minutes ago, Brennanf said:

Honestly,  not even worried about the clubs.   I am still taken aback by the number of people that see nothing wrong with agreeing to a deal then backing out. I was raised your word is is your word.   Maybe I'm too old to internet. Lol

Selling golf equipment to some random buyer on a golf forum who is looking for a discount is not a measure of a mans word.  Apples to oranges.   

 

- KC 

[Brennanf]

2 minutes ago, KC13 said:

Selling golf equipment to some random buyer on a golf forum who is looking for a discount is not a measure of a mans word.  Apples to oranges.   

 

- KC 

Character is what you do when people aren't watching. 

[onetime19]

I've sold many items that I made a deal with someone, then another buyer comes in after with full price. If I have already made a deal with someone on price, then it's my loss and I stand by my word. Going back after an agreement is made and selling to someone else, is crap.

[RainShadow]

OP,  if the seller had agreed to offer and then sold to someone else after that, the seller is ethically in the wrong, IMO. 

There are quite a few S*^theads on this forum, and it's gotten worse over the years. Especially on the BST,  quite a few of them rarely post in any other part of the forums and pay a fee to access BST.

[KC13]

9 minutes ago, Brennanf said:

Character is what you do when people aren't watching. 

Nice John Wooden quote but again, this is about set of irons you tried to get for a lesser price.  No payment was sent/received.  Seller received a full asking price and was honest with you.  You're upset cause you lost the purchase and now looking to take some moral high ground against someone you don't even know.  Maybe vetting a mans "character" in the future would be more fruitful otherwise, your in for a lifetime of disappointment.  Let it go.  

 

- KC  

[Cellis]

I have gone through the same situation as a seller though. Accepted lower and almost immediately after received a full offer. I went ahead and sold the lower accepted price, just because of my own personal reasons, but I understand the other side as well. Maybe since my price difference was only $30.... but still, a deal is a deal.

[Brennanf]

5 minutes ago, KC13 said:

Nice John Wooden quote but again, this is about set of irons you tried to get for a lesser price.  No payment was sent/received.  Seller received a full asking price and was honest with you.  You're upset cause you lost the purchase and now looking to take some moral high ground against someone you don't even know.  Maybe vetting a mans "character" in the future would be more fruitful otherwise, your in for a lifetime of disappointment.  Let it go.  

 

- KC  

Not sure how this situation describes honesty.   An honest seller honors their offers and completes their deals,  on both ends.   End of story IMO.  Thanks for the life advice though.   Much appreciated. 

[sethdavidsdad]

For me it kind of depends on the timing of things. If I'm talking back and forth with a potential buyer and no payment has been received then I'm always open to full price offers. After all, you are asking for a price less than listed. I have been on both sides of this in the past. If I'm not willing to pay full price I have to accept that someone else may come along and offer that price in the middle of me haggling. 

Now if a price has been agreed and payment has been sent then the offer should stand on both sides of the situation. For me if you accept a price, buyer should immediately send payment. I have had buyers not send payment for up to 24 hours later. Although I have always honored it I believe you leave yourself open to deals being canceled.   

[dcfball88]

I had a guy the other day come back and ask for more money after I paid- said he got a better offer. Gave me the opportunity to beat it and I did, which I appreciated. And mind you this was after I had already offered him 8% ABOVE asking price and on a combo deal.

 

the price increases took the purchase from a good deal to just an average “what you would expect to pay” type of situation. But it was ok. I couldn’t blame the seller for collecting all offers and deciding on a deal that worked for him. 

[Brennanf]

3 minutes ago, dcfball88 said:

I had a guy the other day come back and ask for more money after I paid- said he got a better offer.

To me,  this is bad form on the seller.  Deal was done.  Pretty lousy to go looking for more after the fact.   Win some,  lose some. But play by the rules of the game.

[Brennanf]

9 minutes ago, sethdavidsdad said:

I have to accept that someone else may come along and offer that price in the middle of me haggling

Agreed.   However,  when the seller makes a counter offer that is not conditional,  he should honor it or at a bare minimum,  give the buyer a chance to match. Have to agree timing is everything. 

[dcfball88]

1 minute ago, Brennanf said:

To me,  this is bad form on the seller.  Deal was done.  Pretty lousy to go looking for more after the fact.   Win some,  lose some. But play by the rules of the game.

It was interesting- stuff like that usually makes me angry. I had to decouple what had happened and how I felt, with my desire to buy the clubs at that price. Right in the moment too since the deal was happening quickly. Not usually my strong suit- I’m an emotional guy more likely to cut off my nose to spite my face. But I was able to compartmentalize and decide I still wanted the clubs for the new price.

[hppyjohn]

 

7 minutes ago, dcfball88 said:

I had a guy the other day come back and ask for more money after I paid- said he got a better offer. Gave me the opportunity to beat it and I did, which I appreciated. And mind you this was after I had already offered him 8% ABOVE asking price and on a combo deal.

 

the price increases took the purchase from a good deal to just an average “what you would expect to pay” type of situation. But it was ok. I couldn’t blame the seller for collecting all offers and deciding on a deal that worked for him. 

 

Dang dude, I know you're a real good guy since I've transacted with you before....

 

My $.02 , I certainly wouldn't appreciate someone who agreed on a deal, you sent payment, they reneged and came back asking you for more.  Especially since you already paid 8% ABOVE asking for a combo deal (99.9999999% of sellers would cut you a discount since they save on shipping).  Sometimes the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

 

These are used golf clubs, not the crazy California real estate market where asking price is just a minimum starting point for negotiation (I live in SoCal, this is 100% real).  PM me with the seller's name so I can add him to the block list.

 

Take care man, have a Happy 4th of July weekend!

[Brennanf]

13 minutes ago, dcfball88 said:

I couldn’t blame the seller for collecting all offers and deciding on a deal that worked for him.

I disagree.   If you want to collect offers,  go ahead and do that without committing to any deal with anyone.  No issues with playing the field as long as everyone understands.  Once you sign it,  you own it. 

[Dpavs]

Let's reverse this for a moment. The seller and the buyer agreed to a price. Before sending the money, the buyer changed his mind and decided not to buy the item. Does anyone really think that the buyer is not entitled to do so?

Edited July 2, 2021 by Dpavs

[Brennanf]

Just now, Dpavs said:

Let's reverse this for a moment. The seller and the buyer agreed to a price. Before sending the money, the buyer changed his mind? Does anyone really think that the buyer is not entitled to do so?

I think the buyer should go through.   You agreed to it.   Don't negotiate if you don't plan to pay.   Matter of fact,  I've been in that situation and finished the deal.   I was able to unload the goods later, but wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I welched on the agreement. 

[jholz]

IMHO the only thing the seller did wrong here was their failure to offer the OP a chance to match the price. That would have been a fair and equitable way to manage the situation.

 

To just go ahead and sell the item out from under the guy is not kosher. 

[Dpavs]

6 minutes ago, Brennanf said:

I think the buyer should go through.   You agreed to it.   Don't negotiate if you don't plan to pay.   Matter of fact,  I've been in that situation and finished the deal.   I was able to unload the goods later, but wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I welched on the agreement. 

 

But then I didn't ask about how anyone might personally feel obligated out of their own sense of what was fair. What I asked was does anyone feel that the buyer is not entitled to back out until payment is actually made. One is based on a sense of fair play while the other is based on the right to do or not do something regardless of the reason behind the decision. There is a big difference between these two, isn't there?

Edited July 2, 2021 by Dpavs

[Brennanf]

14 minutes ago, dcfball88 said:

It was interesting- stuff like that usually makes me angry. I had to decouple what had happened and how I felt, with my desire to buy the clubs at that price. Right in the moment too since the deal was happening quickly. Not usually my strong suit- I’m an emotional guy more likely to cut off my nose to spite my face. But I was able to compartmentalize and decide I still wanted the clubs for the new price.

That's a good way to look at it.   I'm very level headed when it comes to business decisions,  which this is at some level.   If I had stood on my original offer,  I would have no problem with someone offering more and buying the item.   I was bugged by the fact that I accepted the sellers terms and he sold to someone else without offering me a chance to buy.  I was further put off by his argument that his disclaimer in his add supercedes his agreement to sell.   

[dcfball88]

12 minutes ago, Brennanf said:

I disagree.   If you want to collect offers,  go ahead and do that without committing to any deal with anyone.  No issues with playing the field as long as everyone understands.  Once you sign it,  you own it. 

If I’m understanding correctly, the listing in question for you said full price offers take precedent? So he did say that. I know he then agreed to a deal, so that part stinks. Could have told you let me see if I get a full-price offer first. At the end of the day we’re just amateur golfers selling golf equipment to each other, kind of a casual endeavor. I’m not advocating for seller, btw. I think he should have given you the opportunity to match it. But I’m sure there are also some people out there who appreciate a guy who comes in with his best offer right up front, no games. Sorry that happened to you. Weird that you didn’t get a chance to match.

[Brennanf]

5 minutes ago, Dpavs said:

 

But then I didn't ask about how anyone might personally feel obligated out of their own sense of what was fair. What I asked was does anyone feel that the buyer is not entitled to back out until payment is actually made. One is based on a sense of fair play while the other is based on the right to do or not do something regardless of the reason behind the decision. There is a big difference between these two, isn't there?

I see your point.   This is the reason for "right to rescind " legislation in many states.   It's the thrust behind the customer is always right mentality.   Because this forum is largely regulated by morality rather than law,  I would have to stand on my previous comments. 

[Brennanf]

1 minute ago, dcfball88 said:

If I’m understanding correctly, the listing in question for you said full price offers take precedent? So he did say that. I know he then agreed to a deal, so that part stinks. Could have told you let me see if I get a full-price offer first. At the end of the day we’re just amateur golfers selling golf equipment to each other, kind of a casual endeavor. I’m not advocating for seller, btw. I think he should have given you the opportunity to match it. But I’m sure there are also some people out there who appreciate a guy who comes in with his best offer right up front, no games. Sorry that happened to you. Weird that you didn’t get a chance to match.

Agreed on much here.   I'm a pretty no nonsense guy.  If I make an offer,  I'm gonna follow through.   If I tell you I'm out,  then I'm out.    I buy and sell a bunch and always felt that the people in the WRX BST were stand-up people.   This actually has nothing to do with the clubs I couldn't purchase.   I'm more reevaluating my own convictions that I thought were in the majority but maybe I was wrong.  

[jj9000]

In the BST, first to send PayPal gets the item.

 

Always.

 

Nothing else matters.

 

You snoozed...you lost...learn from it and move on.

Edited July 2, 2021 by jj9000