Any loopholes to the inability to post solo rounds?

[Augster]

Donny, you’re out of your element. 
 

Also,

 

 

 

[UKGolfer86]

Erm, i got lost aout halfway through page 3, but one suggestion i have for you.  If you want to get a handicap for competition purposes at your club, you should be able to play in competitions without a handicap, you just cannot win.  Once you have played 3 rounds, you will have a handicap and will likely have met some fellow golfers that you can play with in casual rounds.

 

If your club doesnt allow non-handicap players in a tournament, then maybe just rock up to the course on Sunday morning and ask singles if they would mind if you joined them?

[RCGA]

Can I post a round for handicap purposes if it included gimmes? Willingly or otherwise? 

[Superbrit]

Handicaps are there so golfers can compete with each other on a level playing field in competition, so it would make sense your handicap has been acquired in competitive golf, sorry but solo rounds shouldn't be included in that, its just not the same (my many years of playing with people all over world in St Andrews will attest to that)

 

If you just want a handicap to measure your golfing ability then just use the many apps out there, the only issue is when certain golf clubs/courses require a HC, maybe the WHS could have included this when it was created, maybe a comp HC, and a "solo" HC

[North Butte]

I hate to point out the elephant in the room but...

 

There's nothing stop anyone from signing up for GHIN and posting any numbers they like. Solo rounds, made-up scores, sandbagging, there's tons of that stuff in there already. 

 

I can't understand why you guys feel the need to get validation in a forum like this for your fake handicap. The system for posting is wide open (which I think is a travesty BTW) but then again so is golf, right? There's an honor system in golf or else the whole game would be unworkable, same for the handicap system.

 

Following the handicap system rules, even though GHIN will accept any number you make up, is no different than following the rules of golf even though the guy you're playing with is 100 yards away and can't see what you're doing.  

 

Just don't expect a lot of agreement from people with legitimate handicaps when you try to 'splain to them why all your rounds are solo but that ought to count anyway. 

 

[RCGA]

11 minutes ago, Superbrit said:

Handicaps are there so golfers can compete with each other on a level playing field in competition, so it would make sense your handicap has been acquired in competitive golf, sorry but solo rounds shouldn't be included in that, its just not the same (my many years of playing with people all over world in St Andrews will attest to that)

 

*sigh*

 

What's the difference between playing solo vs. getting paired up with 3 randoms who aren't playing by the rules, don't care what you shoot and don't even know what a handicap is? 

 

If it's to have someone attest your score, I don't buy that argument for one second. Most playing partners aren't paying close enough attention (apart from your regular foursome). And I couldn't remember anyone's round other than to verify they didn't shoot 59 or 175.  

 

It just seems like a rule written by the retired muckety mucks at private elite clubs and is out of touch with how many regular people play golf.

 

[Superbrit]

5 minutes ago, RCGA said:

 

*sigh*

 

What's the difference between playing solo vs. getting paired up with 3 randoms who aren't playing by the rules, don't care what you shoot and don't even know what a handicap is? 

 

If it's to have someone attest your score, I don't buy that argument for one second. Most playing partners aren't paying close enough attention (apart from your regular foursome). And I couldn't remember anyone's round other than to verify they didn't shoot 59 or 175.  

 

It just seems like a rule written by the retired muckety mucks at private elite clubs and is out of touch with how many regular people play golf.

 

How is the above competition golf? thats certainly not like the competition golf i play in

 

Many regular players don't play competition golf so what does it matter, if you want to play competition golf then have proper competition scores, its not difficult

 

[North Butte]

27 minutes ago, RCGA said:

 

*sigh*

 

What's the difference between playing solo vs. getting paired up with 3 randoms who aren't playing by the rules, don't care what you shoot and don't even know what a handicap is? 

 

If it's to have someone attest your score, I don't buy that argument for one second. Most playing partners aren't paying close enough attention (apart from your regular foursome). And I couldn't remember anyone's round other than to verify they didn't shoot 59 or 175.  

 

It just seems like a rule written by the retired muckety mucks at private elite clubs and is out of touch with how many regular people play golf.

 

What’s the difference between dropping away from a spot marked GIR versus dropping away from a clump of weeds? If you wish to play by the rules, one has a penalty stroke and the other doesn’t. 
 

You don’t have to agree with every distinction in the rules of golf. Or in the handicap system. You can ignore the ones you don’t like. Just man up and acknowledge that you are playing by your own rules. 
 

So by all means post your solo rounds. And when somebody asks if you have a handicap, simply say I don’t have an real one but I’m a 12 based on my own rules. 
 

Or, to repeat again, you can use any of the many, many, many apps out there which will calculate one for you anyway you like.

If you detest so many things about the USGA and the way their handicap system is run, why are you so desperate to pretend you have a USGA handicap?

[RCGA]

Bob has a day job and young family and has been playing golf at a public course for a few years. He joins a private club so he can play more, get a handicap and enter competitions. 

 

For the most part, Bob can only play after 6pm. At that time, the course is basically empty and anyone teeing off is playing solo by preference. To Bob's surprise, none of his solo rounds can count toward his handicap and he wonders "what's the point?".

 

He manages to get away from the wife and kids to play 3 rounds over a long weekend with others in order to obtain an index. He's was paired with golfers who were more interested in finishing the round quickly and doesn't play his best. Some in the group even have the audacity to assume his lag putts to 8" are gimmes.  He's now worried about someone accusing him of being a sandbagger since his official handicap is higher than it ought to be. 

 

Do you know how absurd that sounds?

[North Butte]

24 minutes ago, Superbrit said:

How is the above competition golf? thats certainly not like the competition golf i play in

 

Many regular players don't play competition golf so what does it matter, if you want to play competition golf then have proper competition scores, its not difficult

 

Under USGA’s bespoke version of WHS scores from a non-competitive round played with three randoms who aren’t even keeping score and who don’t know what you shot are REQUIRED to be posted.
 

Which is pretty ridiculous to start with, but not nearly as ridiculous as the contention that WHS is a unified system in both UK and USA (as well as elsewhere). 
 

it’s nice that USGA finally dropped the ridiculous requirement that we post solo round a few years ago. But the half measures they put in place after that change are hardly more sensible. 

[RCGA]

27 minutes ago, Superbrit said:

How is the above competition golf? thats certainly not like the competition golf i play in

 

Many regular players don't play competition golf so what does it matter, if you want to play competition golf then have proper competition scores, its not difficult

 

 

wut

 

A decent player was a handicap paired up with 3 random hackers is how a ton of golf is played. In fact, it was probably 75% of my rounds when I have a junior and in university. 

 

Those rounds counted towards my handicap, which I then used when I entered tournaments.  

[North Butte]

2 minutes ago, RCGA said:

Bob has a day job and young family and has been playing golf at a public course for a few years. He joins a private club so he can play more, get a handicap and enter competitions. 

 

For the most part, Bob can only play after 6pm. At that time, the course is basically empty and anyone teeing off is playing solo by preference. To Bob's surprise, none of his solo rounds can count toward his handicap and he wonders "what's the point?".

 

He manages to get away from the wife and kids to play 3 rounds over a long weekend with others in order to obtain an index. He's was paired with golfers who were more interested in finishing the round quickly and doesn't play his best. Some in the group even have the audacity to assume his lag putts to 8" are gimmes.  He's now worried about someone accusing him of being a sandbagger since his official handicap is higher than it ought to be. 

 

Do you know how absurd that sounds?

I totally agree. Allowing (actually, *requiring*) rounds in random groups like that to be posted is totally absurd. Nearly as absurd as allowing or requiring solo rounds to be posted. 

 

To my mind a system that changes from requiring two different kinds of absurd rounds to be posted to a system requiring just one of those kinds of absurd rounds is an improvement, however slight. You seem to be insisting that the system would make more sense by having even more absurdly inappropriate scores entered than it does under the current rules. 

[RCGA]

5 minutes ago, North Butte said:

I totally agree. Allowing (actually, *requiring*) rounds in random groups like that to be posted is totally absurd. Nearly as absurd as allowing or requiring solo rounds to be posted. 

 

To my mind a system that changes from requiring two different kinds of absurd rounds to be posted to a system requiring just one of those kinds of absurd rounds is an improvement, however slight. You seem to be insisting that the system would make more sense by having even more absurdly inappropriate scores entered than it does under the current rules. 

 

So in your ideal world, who I happen to be paired up with dictates if a round is for my handicap or a worthless practice round.

 

Got it. Can you image the drama on the tee box when the other 3 people in your group have a 12-pack of beer in their carts and you have to cry to the starter "BuT THiS rOuNd iS fOrE mY HAnDiCaP!!1!"

[RCGA]

double post

Edited July 5, 2021 by RCGA

[HappyGilmoresBoots]

11 hours ago, RCGA said:

I honestly wonder what is point of a handicap in this day and age?

 

Net events are largely won by sandbaggers. Stat apps are way better at tracking progress. Most of the golfing public doesn't play by the rules. And anyone who's not a sandbagger or able to win gross in tournaments just cares about the skins, long drive and closest to the hole.

 

Preventing what rounds I can and can't enter just make me want to use something else to track progress, which defeats the whole purpose. 

 

 

That's exactly why I started tracking scores over the long-term:  To see my individual growth and progress in a quantitative manner.  The Grint offers a little tick mark at the bottom right of the scorecard to mark any given round as "practice," which gives you the benefit of the doubt that you played the rules to the best of your ability and, in doing so, the app won't record those rounds for your reportable handicap - it'll just add to your score history.

 

I've only got a few scores attested on The Grint - so my "official" handicap is substantially lower (hey, I was shooting well that day) than the HCP recorded from my solo rounds.

[North Butte]

8 minutes ago, RCGA said:

 

So in your ideal world, who I happen to be paired up with dictates if a round is for my handicap or a worthless practice round.

 

Got it. Can you image the drama on the tee box when the other 3 people in your group have a 12-pack of beer in their carts and you have to cry to the starter "BuT THiS rOuNd iS fOrE mY HAnDiCaP!!1!"

In my nearly ideal world, when you are competing against one or more other golfers then that score would be entered into the handicap system. No scores that are not based on competing against other golfers would be counted toward the handicap.

 

If my truly ideal world, same as above except the other golfers you are competing against would attest that the score you entered is correct. 

 

Your use of the word "drama" is funny given the tone of your posts in this thread, by the way. 

[Sawgrass]

2 hours ago, RCGA said:

 

. . . It just seems like a rule written by the retired muckety mucks at private elite clubs and is out of touch with how many regular people play golf.

 

 

4 hours ago, RCGA said:

Can I post a round for handicap purposes if it included gimmes? Willingly or otherwise? 

There’s irony here.  

[RCGA]

36 minutes ago, Sawgrass said:

 

There’s irony here.  

 

Other than a tournament, I don't think I've ever been in a foursome everyone played the entire round ball-to-hole. 

 

If someone has a 30y chip and sticks it to 6", sorry, it's a gimme to speed up play. No one is waiting for you to walk over, dance around lines and knock it in. 

 

I guess they were all scumbag cheaters destroying the integrity of the handicap system and spitting on rules of golf. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by RCGA

[Sawgrass]

5 minutes ago, RCGA said:

 

Other than a tournament, I don't think I've ever been in a foursome everyone played the entire round ball-to-hole. 

 

If someone has a 30y chip and sticks it to 6", sorry, it's a gimme to speed up play. No one is waiting for you to walk over, dance around lines and knock it in. 

 

I guess they were all scumbag cheaters destroying the integrity of the handicap system and spitting on rules of golf. 

Oh boy, it seems you are ignorant of the fact that one may pick up on a hole and post their most likely score, and have that count legally for handicap purposes.  And that with all puts within 5 feet, one stroke is the “most likely” requirement. 
 

So while I don’t therefore define you as a “scumbag cheater,” I am tired of your “spitting.”

[ThinkingPlus]

13 minutes ago, RCGA said:

 

Other than a tournament, I don't think I've ever been in a foursome everyone played the entire round ball-to-hole. 

 

If someone has a 30y chip and sticks it to 6", sorry, it's a gimme to speed up play. No one is waiting for you to walk over, dance around lines and knock it in. 

 

I guess they were all scumbag cheaters destroying the integrity of the handicap system and spitting on rules of golf. 

Probably not impacting the handicap system, but will result in handicaps being more vanity-like depending upon how long the gimmes get.  For single player comps you give up some chance at winning and it will make it less likely you become everyone's favorite partner in team events as well.

[Superbrit]

20 minutes ago, RCGA said:

 

Other than a tournament, I don't think I've ever been in a foursome everyone played the entire round ball-to-hole. 

 

If someone has a 30y chip and sticks it to 6", sorry, it's a gimme to speed up play. No one is waiting for you to walk over, dance around lines and knock it in. 

 

I guess they were all scumbag cheaters destroying the integrity of the handicap system and spitting on rules of golf. 

Im sorry but if your intention is to put that score in for a HC you put the ball in the hole, not matter where it is, and if not you ARE cheating the HC system simple as

[davep043]

31 minutes ago, RCGA said:

 

Other than a tournament, I don't think I've ever been in a foursome everyone played the entire round ball-to-hole. 

 

If someone has a 30y chip and sticks it to 6", sorry, it's a gimme to speed up play. No one is waiting for you to walk over, dance around lines and knock it in. 

 

I guess they were all scumbag cheaters destroying the integrity of the handicap system and spitting on rules of golf. 

If you are going to complain about the handicap system, you really should invest a little time in understanding the system.  In the USGA areas, we have always posted scores with gimmes, and the rules have told us how to handle them.

9 minutes ago, Superbrit said:

Im sorry but if your intention is to put that score in for a HC you put the ball in the hole, not matter where it is, and if not you ARE cheating the HC system simple as

in the USGA areas, we post the most likely score for any hole thats not completed, its completely logical when match play scores are required to be posted.  I understand that the practice in the UK is different.

[Superbrit]

1 minute ago, davep043 said:

If you are going to complain about the handicap system, you really should invest a little time in understanding the system.  In the USGA areas, we have always posted scores with gimmes, and the rules have told us how to handle them.

in the USGA areas, we post the most likely score for any hole thats not completed, its completely logical when match play scores are required to be posted.  I understand that the practice in the UK is different.

Most likely score?? im sorry but thats just crazy, when we do stableford then it automatically gets put in as 2 over par (net) if you dont finish the hole, so doesnt count, so if your playing match play and player A gets a birdie, player b is 5ft away for par, he can just say its a par?

[ThinkingPlus]

7 minutes ago, Superbrit said:

Most likely score?? im sorry but thats just crazy, when we do stableford then it automatically gets put in as 2 over par (net) if you dont finish the hole, so doesnt count, so if your playing match play and player A gets a birdie, player b is 5ft away for par, he can just say its a par?

Yes.  Or if the 5 footer has a foot of break they could say bogey because they would likely 2-putt.

[Superbrit]

6 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Yes.  Or if the 5 footer has a foot of break they could say bogey because they would likely 2-putt.

Its hardly surprising the HC system in the US changed then, as someone from the UK i just find it strange you could do that

[davep043]

2 minutes ago, Superbrit said:

Its hardly surprising the HC system in the US changed then, as someone from the UK i just find it strange you could do that

I can't find the reference, but I believe I've read that either Scotland or Ireland will be accepting match play scores for handicaps.  If I'm right, they may also have to get used to using the "most likely score" concept for conceded putts or holes.

[2bGood]

 

43 minutes ago, Superbrit said:

Im sorry but if your intention is to put that score in for a HC you put the ball in the hole, not matter where it is, and if not you ARE cheating the HC system simple as

The handicap system actually makes allowances for not holing out. As far as HC is concerned it is not a big deal to pick up a putt or to not finish a hole and still post a score. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by 2bGood

[Superbrit]

1 minute ago, 2bGood said:

 

The handicap system actually makes allowances for not holing out. As far as HC is concerned it is not a big deal to pick up a putt or to not finish a hole and still post a score. 

Yeah its similar in the UK, specifically for stableford, but you are given a score (2 over net) you cant basically make up your score

[Sawgrass]

19 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Yes.  Or if the 5 footer has a foot of break they could say bogey because they would likely 2-putt.

I don’t think it’s accurate that you have that choice within five feet, irrespective of break, as noted in the below chart from Section 3.3.  I do know though, that if there’s no local rule preventing it or if you’re not helping a partner by doing so, you have the option to putt the previously conceded stroke and count it as you play it.

 

Most likely scores should be determined on any hole in accordance with the following guidelines:

Position of the Ball Strokes to be Added If the ball lies on the putting green, and is no more than 5 feet (1.5 metres) from the hole: Add one additional stroke. If the ball lies between 5 feet (1.5 metres) and 20 yards (20 metres) from the hole: Add 2 or 3 additional strokes, depending on the position of the ball, the difficulty of the green and the ability of the player. If the ball lies more than 20 yards (20 metres) from the hole: Add 3 or 4 additional strokes, depending on the position of the ball, the difficulty of the green and the ability of the player. (See Diagram 3.3.)

 

[ThinkingPlus]

1 minute ago, Sawgrass said:

I don’t think it’s accurate that you have that choice within five feet, irrespective of break, as noted in the below chart from Section 3.3.  I do know though, that if there’s no local rule preventing it or if you’re not helping a partner by doing so, you have the option to putt the previously conceded stroke and count it as you play it.

 

Most likely scores should be determined on any hole in accordance with the following guidelines:

Position of the Ball Strokes to be Added If the ball lies on the putting green, and is no more than 5 feet (1.5 metres) from the hole: Add one additional stroke. If the ball lies between 5 feet (1.5 metres) and 20 yards (20 metres) from the hole: Add 2 or 3 additional strokes, depending on the position of the ball, the difficulty of the green and the ability of the player. If the ball lies more than 20 yards (20 metres) from the hole: Add 3 or 4 additional strokes, depending on the position of the ball, the difficulty of the green and the ability of the player. (See Diagram 3.3.)

 

Interesting.  I have never seen that table.  In the handicap manual?