James Sieckmann Methodology Working...Somewhat

[TurnDog69]

I have been reading James Sieckmann's short game book as my 70 yards and in has been disastrous recently. 

 

I am especially a nightmare right off the green and I RARELY get up and down. It is not weird for me to have zero up and downs in a round. I either hit the green or I'm bogeying. 

 

I have enjoyed what I've learned from the book so far, and can feel some aspects of this method providing some badly needed simplicity, along with the ability to attack. 

 

One thing I'm still struggling with is his method off super tight lies. My course has a lot of shots where you need to play a high and short shot (Maybe landing it 5-10 yards away). The greens are fast and slope away, and typically these shots need to be high and short or you will be running hard away from the hole. 

 

When I'm using the Sieckmann method, I'm still having plenty of shots where I sorta fumble into the ball. I will hit the little flub shot and wind up 50% short. I'm not sure if it's a deceleration or what. Has anyone had experience with these tight lies and Sieckmanns method? I feel more comfortable with a Mickelson type movement off hard pan to ensure contact, but it just rolls forever

[tthomasgolfer605]

Get a low bounce 64 degree wedge. 

[mws92]

Weight needs to be loaded left and then increase pressure left during the swing.  Ball position should be further back than you think as you are releasing angles with a "draw" feeling.  Keeping the weight left also helps your mind "throw" the club which increases friction but not how much energy you put into the ball so it flies high and soft.

 

James Oh has some great examples of this:  https://www.instagram.com/p/CMbDcBTlO7n/

 

Notice in the second video (face-on view) where ball position is in reference to the zipper / chin (not feet).  Then watch his head move forward in the backswing and stay there. It is a bit a reverse pivot but that's what you need for these shots.  Tempo of the swing is super fast.  I've found a slightly longer swing with "smoother" tempo really helps capture the ball and control where the ball lands.  It's not a deceleration but more of the club head falling into the ball and your body supporting the club post-impact 

 

I've used the Sieckmann method for years and have supplemented with James' IG info especially on high soft shots and bunker play.

[Saltydawg15]

I have used his short game methods to great success as my pro subscribes to many of his teaching methods. A few points I think are missing in teaching the short game or at least not enough emphasis is made.

 

1. learn to properly use the bounce, you need to feel as if your right hand is following the club with your palm up. This will make it nearly impossible to hit it fat.

 

2. when you take the club back feel as if the club weight takes over and let gravity take the club. 
 

3. use his exercise of placing a coin in front of the ball and try and hit that. 

[CasualLie]

I will add one tip that may help.  It will be obvious to some, but it was not to me and the missing link to making the Sieckmann and Ridyard style work much better for me.  You have to hinge your wrist correctly to generate the necessary speed which gives you the height and spin.  

 

It's so funny how such a simple thing gets omitted from a lot of instructors.  Maybe because it is so simple instructors feel like they do not need to mention the obvious, but it wasn't obvious to me!

 

I don't know what I was watching / reading when I picked up a key concept.  I may have been half asleep!  When asked what is the difference between a chip and a pitch, Pete Cowan says it is the wrist movement.  Greenside chip is all extension / flexion, with upright shaft creating a very pendulum like swing.  A pitch is hinge.  Yes, there is still a little bit extension/flexion, but focus on the hinge. 

 

This was such a light bulb moment for me when I got to the range.  I was not hinging at all and trying to hit 30 yard pitches doing what looks like a lot of extension / flexion to deliver bounce to the ball and get it up and spinning.  Sometimes that would work but a lot of times not.  When I hinge up and unhinge to square up the face, the bounce gets delivered because of the right setup.  Face a little open, shaft barely leaning, hinge up / down, follow through and all of the sudden I was hitting great spinners. 

 

My confidence went way up in 15 minutes. 

[mws92]

@Saltydawg15 @CasualLie very good points above.  Totally agree with the right hand movement and the hinge points.  Ridyard makes a pretty big point of not taking a divot but getting 7 to 8 downward AoA on GCquad by using the proper hinge/unhinge to held shallow the club.

 

The one big thing that really helps me that Sieckmann also mentions - use a very strong left hand grip and maintain the cup in the wrist the entire time.  When you flatten/bow the left wrist like in the full swing, the leading edge gets exposed much more.  Keep the cup and you can use the bounce the entire time.  Proper ball position and pivot helps create forward shaft lean without driving the left hand toward the target and bowing the wrist.

Edited July 9, 2021 by mws92
spelling / grammar

[indianagolf2]

His hourly isn't crazy I'd go see him. 

[Myherobobhope]

On 7/8/2021 at 7:46 PM, CasualLie said:

I will add one tip that may help.  It will be obvious to some, but it was not to me and the missing link to making the Sieckmann and Ridyard style work much better for me.  You have to hinge your wrist correctly to generate the necessary speed which gives you the height and spin.  

 

It's so funny how such a simple thing gets omitted from a lot of instructors.  Maybe because it is so simple instructors feel like they do not need to mention the obvious, but it wasn't obvious to me!

 

I don't know what I was watching / reading when I picked up a key concept.  I may have been half asleep!  When asked what is the difference between a chip and a pitch, Pete Cowan says it is the wrist movement.  Greenside chip is all extension / flexion, with upright shaft creating a very pendulum like swing.  A pitch is hinge.  Yes, there is still a little bit extension/flexion, but focus on the hinge. 

 

This was such a light bulb moment for me when I got to the range.  I was not hinging at all and trying to hit 30 yard pitches doing what looks like a lot of extension / flexion to deliver bounce to the ball and get it up and spinning.  Sometimes that would work but a lot of times not.  When I hinge up and unhinge to square up the face, the bounce gets delivered because of the right setup.  Face a little open, shaft barely leaning, hinge up / down, follow through and all of the sudden I was hitting great spinners. 

 

My confidence went way up in 15 minutes. 

This is very well said… you have to open your hands and wrists way open on your backswing to make this shot work…

 

ive switched to a more hybrid style shot because the proper sieckmann technique launches the ball so high and soft… it’s great for the shot you want to hit, it just requires practice and confidence.

 

[indianagolf2]

His YouTube vids are old.....he mentions Tom pernice..but he worked with him like 15 years ago?? I'd of expected more online vids from him. 

[CasualLie]

He's getting plenty of action from mini tour to PGA tour players.  As well, he's very connected with the TPI crew.  Some instructors are fortunate that way and not interested in building a brand through YouTube.  It's not like he needs the work.  

[indianagolf2]

So he is working with current players?? That's very good. 

[jobin]

'just requires practice and confidence'.  So very easy to write, so difficult to employ.

 

[dlygrisse]

On 7/6/2021 at 12:31 PM, TurnDog69 said:

I have been reading James Sieckmann's short game book as my 70 yards and in has been disastrous recently. 

 

I am especially a nightmare right off the green and I RARELY get up and down. It is not weird for me to have zero up and downs in a round. I either hit the green or I'm bogeying. 

 

I have enjoyed what I've learned from the book so far, and can feel some aspects of this method providing some badly needed simplicity, along with the ability to attack. 

 

One thing I'm still struggling with is his method off super tight lies. My course has a lot of shots where you need to play a high and short shot (Maybe landing it 5-10 yards away). The greens are fast and slope away, and typically these shots need to be high and short or you will be running hard away from the hole. 

 

When I'm using the Sieckmann method, I'm still having plenty of shots where I sorta fumble into the ball. I will hit the little flub shot and wind up 50% short. I'm not sure if it's a deceleration or what. Has anyone had experience with these tight lies and Sieckmanns method? I feel more comfortable with a Mickelson type movement off hard pan to ensure contact, but it just rolls forever

Two very different methods, you should really just pick one and commit.  Mickelson likes lots of forward press and more of an open face. When you are using a bounce centric action you really need to release the clubhead. I feel like the clubhead is out racing my hands. They both work but a very different release pattern.