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Garmin Approach R10 Portable Golf Launch Monitor


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3 minutes ago, Oh Hi Carl said:

Thanks!  That's reassuring I guess.  

 

Yeah, to be honest I'm really kind of surprised we haven't seen any real firmware updates for the R10 yet and no fix to this issue with the app. I've owned quite a few Garmin products in the past from the cycling side and while there are pretty much always issues on release they're usually super active with firmware updates in the first two or three months after release fixing all the teething problems. That we're over a month out from release and we haven't seen a single material firmware update, 3.40 seems to just be some kind of regional thing with no actual technical adjustments, has me concerned.

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IMHO, after watching tons of reviews and hoping this would be the ultimate game improvement device, I don't think the device is quite there yet.  Not sure if it'll ever get there.  Many keep saying, "Yeah, but for the price, you get so much!"  Well, not really.  You seem to get solid ball numbers.  Ball speed, club speed, carry distance, and total distance.  However, most of the other numbers are calculated, and from all the reviews I've been watching, they are either not accurate, or not consistent enough to depend on.  For example, one of the biggest things I need to work on is club path.  I tend to come too far from the inside.  The numbers provided by the R10 on the club data is a guestimate/calculated, based upon the ball data.  Many of the reviewers who have done side by side comparos have noted how far off these numbers are (AOA, club path, face to path, etc.).  That's not helpful, and actual can be detrimental, if I think my club is only a few degrees in to out and the device is stating it's 10 degrees from the inside...you can easily ruin your swing trying to adjust it to the numbers on the device.  If Garmin wants to provide those numbers in this price point, they need to improve the algorithms they are using to calculate those numbers.  But, that will cost $$$ and time from getting data back from users.  I hope they get it dialed in and are able to keep it in this price point.  Maybe get rid of the side show games and E6 connection ability, but that probably won't happen.  Electronics these days make money on subscriptions more than the sale of the device...but, I'll hold out hope and keep using my $239 PRGR.  It's very basic in what it does (ball speed, club speed - even practice swings- smash factor, carry distance and total distance), but it's very accurate having compared it side by side during my club fitting session at Club Champion with a Trackman 4.  

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I mean I'm not entirely sure what you were expecting if path was all you cared about? The next cheapest devices that accurately measures (rather than estimates) club path are around $10k (GC2+HMT or Uneekor). The Bushnell Launch Pro(GC3) is coming out soon and may measure path, but pricing is pretty opaque on that. Initial cost is rumored to be $3k, but given Foresight's past monetization models could be double that with software and optional packages necessary for path.

 

It's sort of like bitching that the Honda Fit you just bought can't beat your buddy's Corvette in a drag race. You get what you pay for, and should have reasonable expectations. 

 

Edited by Simpsonia
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8 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

I mean I'm not entirely sure what you were expecting if path was all you cared about? The next cheapest devices that accurately measures (rather than estimates) club path are around $10k (GC2+HMT or Uneekor). The Bushnell Launch Pro(GC3) is coming out soon and may measure path, but pricing is pretty opaque on that. Initial cost is rumored to be $3k, but given Foresight's past monetization models could be double that with software and optional packages necessary for path.

 

It's sort of like bitching that the Honda Fit you just bought can't beat your buddy's Corvette in a drag race. You get what you pay for, and should have reasonable expectations. 

 

 

I don't think he's bitching, just giving his opinion/feedback about why this is probably not the right device for a user with his needs.  

 

On the flip side, I am a user that will care mostly about ball data, and my 8 year old will LOVE any kind of simulator functionality.  As soon as *maybe* teething issues are addressed and supply is up a bit, I'll almost definitely jump in.

Edited by jjschafe
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2 hours ago, PistolPeteIII said:

IMHO, after watching tons of reviews and hoping this would be the ultimate game improvement device, I don't think the device is quite there yet.  Not sure if it'll ever get there.  Many keep saying, "Yeah, but for the price, you get so much!"  Well, not really.  You seem to get solid ball numbers.  Ball speed, club speed, carry distance, and total distance.  However, most of the other numbers are calculated, and from all the reviews I've been watching, they are either not accurate, or not consistent enough to depend on.  For example, one of the biggest things I need to work on is club path.  I tend to come too far from the inside.  The numbers provided by the R10 on the club data is a guestimate/calculated, based upon the ball data.  Many of the reviewers who have done side by side comparos have noted how far off these numbers are (AOA, club path, face to path, etc.).  That's not helpful, and actual can be detrimental, if I think my club is only a few degrees in to out and the device is stating it's 10 degrees from the inside...you can easily ruin your swing trying to adjust it to the numbers on the device.  If Garmin wants to provide those numbers in this price point, they need to improve the algorithms they are using to calculate those numbers.  But, that will cost $$$ and time from getting data back from users.  I hope they get it dialed in and are able to keep it in this price point.  Maybe get rid of the side show games and E6 connection ability, but that probably won't happen.  Electronics these days make money on subscriptions more than the sale of the device...but, I'll hold out hope and keep using my $239 PRGR.  It's very basic in what it does (ball speed, club speed - even practice swings- smash factor, carry distance and total distance), but it's very accurate having compared it side by side during my club fitting session at Club Champion with a Trackman 4.  

FWIW club path is actually measured, not calculated; it's face angle that is calculated.

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1 hour ago, jjschafe said:

 

I don't think he's bitching, just giving his opinion/feedback about why this is probably not the right device for a user with his needs.  

 

On the flip side, I am a user that will care mostly about ball data, and my 8 year old will LOVE any kind of simulator functionality.  As soon as *maybe* teething issues are addressed and supply is up a bit, I'll almost definitely jump in.

 

I still think its completely unreasonable to expect perfect accuracy (within 1 degree) from a device that is literally 3% the cost of the professional models. Someone posted this image upthread comparing a scatter plot of data from the R10 vs the $20k GCHawk. The only data in here that is wildly inaccurate is backspin and sidespin. The horizontal deviation is pretty dang good considering that the sidespin numbers are usually inaccurate. Club speed numbers are off, but very consistent. I think these number show that the the device is exactly where it should be for the price, and probably actually has a lot of room to get even more accurate with future firmware updates. 

 

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Brought mine to the range yesterday and had my club pro with me. Very useful on the range. My pro said he was impressed and a lot of the numbers he thought were accurate including attack angle and even spin for some shots. Distances seemed spot on. I am keeping it and hope for more improvements in future FW updates. Swinging into a net isn’t the same but I feel the setup needs a bit more love for me to comment. I definitely have swing hesitancy as my wedges have gone over the net into my neighbors yard (tho I do live on Oakland Hills CC.)

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56 minutes ago, JCP22 said:

Brought mine to the range yesterday and had my club pro with me. Very useful on the range. My pro said he was impressed and a lot of the numbers he thought were accurate including attack angle and even spin for some shots. Distances seemed spot on. I am keeping it and hope for more improvements in future FW updates. Swinging into a net isn’t the same but I feel the setup needs a bit more love for me to comment. I definitely have swing hesitancy as my wedges have gone over the net into my neighbors yard (tho I do live on Oakland Hills CC.)


Watching some of the reviews closely it appears that outside  the unit defers to observed ball flight to calculate curve .. albeit within the limitations of the range of its small doppler. I’ve noted for example a left spin axis when the path and calculated face to path is open. That is all fine but means little to the indoor / sim use case where it is forced to use algorithmic calculations from ball and club path / AOA data to calculate spin. I wonder, if they are unable to tighten those club numbers up, whether Garmin will need to fall back to a club/loft entry model together with hard AOA assumptions.. like the SC300.. coming from someone who has a R10 on the way I certainly hope that they are able to deliver on the intended concept without introducing bandaids and concessions.. but at present there are too many calculations contingent on club head readings that are proving a struggle .. the “Garmin advises…” path/AOA tolerances of 2/1 degrees published by Playbetter.com… which became 4/3 degrees in the Golfstead.com article .. to now where Garmin don’t even acknowledge these as measured values on their site .. is a concern together with the vague support / forum responses that suggest confusion and uncertainty at their end (and likely Legal Team guidance). With the thousands of backed up pre orders it would be timely for Garmin to come out and talk to the R10 in terms of backing the technology / capabilities and its planned trajectory…

Edited by Sandhurst241069
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Thanks everyone for sharing your feedback on this unit, just received mine a few days ago. Much like others indoor distance woefully under registering carry yardages but club head accurate compared to side by side yupiteru unit. Outdoors works very well across the bag.


Went back to the indoor garage and tried E6Connect practice range and again very low carries with accurate club head speeds. However as a hack till Garmin patches their lookup tables for carry I’ve had success artificially setting the environment elevation to 10,000ft to get carry yardages 2-5 yards within range as my yupiteru unit. Not ideal but at least I can get carry and directional data on a practice environment. 
 

Hoping Garmin patches their calc tables soon. This’ll do for now:) 

 


 

 

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I tested r10 for short chips (50shots) at my backyard. Measured 10 meter target a little downhill. The total distances were very accurate around 10 +-2 meters. The carry looked like 1-3 meters short in this case. Had some thin, short and long and the distances were about right. The distance values were also accurate, but if I moved the r10 10cm (4 inches) horizontally, the direction chanced 1m as it probally should. Very satisfied compared to some even more expensive radars.

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On 9/10/2021 at 11:54 AM, Simpsonia said:

 

I still think its completely unreasonable to expect perfect accuracy (within 1 degree) from a device that is literally 3% the cost of the professional models. Someone posted this image upthread comparing a scatter plot of data from the R10 vs the $20k GCHawk. The only data in here that is wildly inaccurate is backspin and sidespin. The horizontal deviation is pretty dang good considering that the sidespin numbers are usually inaccurate. Club speed numbers are off, but very consistent. I think these number show that the the device is exactly where it should be for the price, and probably actually has a lot of room to get even more accurate with future firmware updates. 

 

spacer.png

 

On 9/10/2021 at 8:23 AM, PistolPeteIII said:

IMHO, after watching tons of reviews and hoping this would be the ultimate game improvement device, I don't think the device is quite there yet.  Not sure if it'll ever get there.  Many keep saying, "Yeah, but for the price, you get so much!"  Well, not really.  You seem to get solid ball numbers.  Ball speed, club speed, carry distance, and total distance.  However, most of the other numbers are calculated, and from all the reviews I've been watching, they are either not accurate, or not consistent enough to depend on.  For example, one of the biggest things I need to work on is club path.  I tend to come too far from the inside.  The numbers provided by the R10 on the club data is a guestimate/calculated, based upon the ball data.  Many of the reviewers who have done side by side comparos have noted how far off these numbers are (AOA, club path, face to path, etc.).  That's not helpful, and actual can be detrimental, if I think my club is only a few degrees in to out and the device is stating it's 10 degrees from the inside...you can easily ruin your swing trying to adjust it to the numbers on the device.  If Garmin wants to provide those numbers in this price point, they need to improve the algorithms they are using to calculate those numbers.  But, that will cost $$$ and time from getting data back from users.  I hope they get it dialed in and are able to keep it in this price point.  Maybe get rid of the side show games and E6 connection ability, but that probably won't happen.  Electronics these days make money on subscriptions more than the sale of the device...but, I'll hold out hope and keep using my $239 PRGR.  It's very basic in what it does (ball speed, club speed - even practice swings- smash factor, carry distance and total distance), but it's very accurate having compared it side by side during my club fitting session at Club Champion with a Trackman 4.  

 

The data I showed there doesn't include club data. I haven't been able to get on a unit that shows this data for me to compare. Just off feel I think the club data is going to be "generally right" but every individual swing could have some error.

 

I don't think it's fair to say this won't help most people improve. I'm definitely not good enough to require GC Quad level of club data. I have hit more balls in the past 3 weeks I've had this than I probably did the whole season prior to this. I had an Approach G80 and an outdoor net but it wasn't very engaging to hit balls and only see such basic stats. I can now see an approximate ball flight, track my stats across range sessions and play simulated rounds. The R10 motivated me to build my garage set up so I can continue to practice over the long Canadian winter. 

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22 hours ago, Cyxx said:

Then, if you get a wrong club path measurement means that the unit is misaligned to the target?

 

thanks

 

Chris

That's possible, but I suspect measuring club path is not nearly as simple as measuring ball path. For ball path you have something that approximates a point source moving in a relatively straight path (especially over the range these units can see) to track; with club path you have a much larger object with different parts moving at different speeds and directions along a complex path to track. I would expect to see improvements to the club path/AoA measurements, and thus back/sidespin, over time via FW updates. How much of an improvement will largely depend on what are the fundamental limits of the doppler units being used and how much effort does Garmin want to invest.

Edited by whumber
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I’ve had my R10 for a couple weeks now.  Only used it in my garage so far. I’m enjoying it, but it does suffer from shorter distances while in the Garmin App.

 

I’ll start with driving range and HTH in the Garmin App with distances being 15 - 30 yards short sometimes.  Then switch to E6 and my club distances are spot on. So my question is, since it’s using the same device (R10) to measure for each app, is it a programming or algorithm issue on the Garmin side?  Can it be fixed with updates?

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1 hour ago, Clint Kennedy said:

I’ve had my R10 for a couple weeks now.  Only used it in my garage so far. I’m enjoying it, but it does suffer from shorter distances while in the Garmin App.

 

I’ll start with driving range and HTH in the Garmin App with distances being 15 - 30 yards short sometimes.  Then switch to E6 and my club distances are spot on. So my question is, since it’s using the same device (R10) to measure for each app, is it a programming or algorithm issue on the Garmin side?  Can it be fixed with updates?

 

The R10 provides launch angle, ball speed, spin and spin axis to e6 and e6 uses its own model to calculate distances. I'm surprised it's that far off although if you're counting roll I think the Garmin app is very conservative on roll so total distance ends up short but carry between e6 and Garmin is close. 

 

If you really want to test it you can actually get both Garmin and e6 data for the same shot. Start the Garmin app and the driving range. Hit home and start e6 in whatever mode you want and hit a shot. As it's flying on e6 quickly switch to Garmin and it'll grab the shot and e6 will also have it. If you're not fast enough the Garmin app won't have all the data.

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2 hours ago, Clint Kennedy said:

I’ve had my R10 for a couple weeks now.  Only used it in my garage so far. I’m enjoying it, but it does suffer from shorter distances while in the Garmin App.

 

I’ll start with driving range and HTH in the Garmin App with distances being 15 - 30 yards short sometimes.  Then switch to E6 and my club distances are spot on. So my question is, since it’s using the same device (R10) to measure for each app, is it a programming or algorithm issue on the Garmin side?  Can it be fixed with updates?

I've have mine a couple of weeks and I agree with this. I play in garden into a net. I find E6 very good. I've played on the range and a few of the courses. Distance number very accurate,really happy with it. There is definitely an issue with HTH. I'm sure this will be fixed in time. 

I was also wondering given E6 is my preferred program, do I need to pay the $99? To use just E6. 

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7 hours ago, James Hogan said:

I've have mine a couple of weeks and I agree with this. I play in garden into a net. I find E6 very good. I've played on the range and a few of the courses. Distance number very accurate,really happy with it. There is definitely an issue with HTH. I'm sure this will be fixed in time. 

I was also wondering given E6 is my preferred program, do I need to pay the $99? To use just E6. 

 

You don't need to pay anything if you're happy with the range and the 5 free courses. 

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I finally tried mine today. Just did home tee hero and I thought it was short on a large number of shots driver to wedges. It was fun, but still short. Net is 10 feet away device was 7 feet behind me I had it at 10 feet not sure if better. Hitting in my driveway, the r10 was on a bit of a slant due to old driveway. Will test again

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9 hours ago, Ada said:

Hello.

I have installed Garmin Golf, got it synchronisewith r10, and started some range session. Data are stored in Garmin Golf app, now how can i export these data on a spread sheet?

Thanks

 

Short answer is you can't and that's the one thing that really sucks right now. You can use e6 if you have an iOS device and the e6 portal saves your shots and you can copy out of their tables but the data they get isn't everything available on the R10.

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11 hours ago, rlefig said:

I finally tried mine today. Just did home tee hero and I thought it was short on a large number of shots driver to wedges. It was fun, but still short. Net is 10 feet away device was 7 feet behind me I had it at 10 feet not sure if better. Hitting in my driveway, the r10 was on a bit of a slant due to old driveway. Will test again

I have a replacement unit which i thought was still short hitting into the net. Went to Dick's and put it up against the Trackman, and it is generally very accurate up to around 165 yd carries, and pretty accurate with woods/driver. Unless both are wrong, I was just hitting shorter than I do on a golf course. I'd consider that if you don't hit into a net/simulator often that you may be not quite swinging away when testing

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1 hour ago, Spells said:

 

I have a replacement unit which i thought was still short hitting into the net. Went to Dick's and put it up against the Trackman, and it is generally very accurate up to around 165 yd carries, and pretty accurate with woods/driver. Unless both are wrong, I was just hitting shorter than I do on a golf course. I'd consider that if you don't hit into a net/simulator often that you may be not quite swinging away when testing

 

A lot of people (myself included) don't appreciate how bad indoor or swinging into the net can be. When people say, "distance is down" I always say to check ball speed because even indoors I have found ball speed to be very good on the R10. Ball speed and launch angle give you probably 90% of what you need to calculate decent distance. If ball speed is about expected then it might be issues with launch angle and there's some options there to try and get better results but if you're fundamentally not swinging as hard that will show up in ball speed or you got a dud unit

 

When I first got my indoor set up I was struggling to carry over 230 yards and I hit 250+ on the course quite often. After a couple weeks I'm getting out to 260-270 carry now so I've definitely become more confident and comfortable.

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Got very credible numbers from my R10 today at the range.  Setup was easy.  I didn't even use a stick to line it up, and it was fine.  Started with it about an inch lower than the mat, and then put something under it, which didn't change the carry numbers at all.  Very good performance today.

 

The highlight, though, was when two guys walked by.  I was using the feature to record my swing.  I was using a five-year-old ipad (although a pretty big one).  One of the guys says "I'd love to have that setup."  His friend responds: "It'll cost you at least two thousand bucks."  (I'm in the US, so that's USD.)  Was a good reminder of how much we get out of this thing for $600.  

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6 hours ago, dpvu said:

 

Short answer is you can't and that's the one thing that really sucks right now. You can use e6 if you have an iOS device and the e6 portal saves your shots and you can copy out of their tables but the data they get isn't everything available on the R10.

Thanks,  that is stupid from Garmin, as it is a basic feature, and easy to provide.

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