Garmin Approach R10 Portable Golf Launch Monitor

[JimmyC59]

5 hours ago, jjschafe said:

Ha, already had a tab open with the link below that I was looking at 10 minutes ago.  It's on E6's site as well but this is easier to find.

FWIW I've been looking at Swappa and Backmarket for the cheapest I can find.

https://shopindoorgolf.com/pages/e6-connect-software-system-requirements

 

Edit - that link appears to have a typo, saying both iPad 5 and iPad 8.  It should be iPad 5 and iPhone 8.  For ease, this is from E6's website:

iPad Pro 1 or later | iPad 5 or later | iPad Air 3 (or later)
iPad Mini 5 (or later) | iPhone 8 or later

Thank you.

[KCChipper]

This interview was helpful for me.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctue0z4rU6k

[whumber]

On 10/27/2021 at 10:54 AM, North54 said:

Interesting video ....

 

 

Very nice to get confirmation that the R10 is capable of tracking the ball out to 50m outdoors, I've noticed that when hitting on the range the red light stays on for quite a while but just wasn't sure if that meant it was actively tracking or just that the R10 was processing the data.

[jimmies78]

Reluctantly I’ve put mine up for sale….I want something that is more than entertainment and I simply cannot trust the data it produces

 

I think my next stop is me on plus as I cannot justify the BLP/GC3 to my family

[Mikepaul]

21 hours ago, jimmies78 said:

Reluctantly I’ve put mine up for sale….I want something that is more than entertainment and I simply cannot trust the data it produces

 

I think my next stop is me on plus as I cannot justify the BLP/GC3 to my family

If you're seeking consistent accuracy look at the Mevo ($399) and the Mevo+ ($1999). But to be honest even the $2k devices are not as accurate as trackman ($20k) or Flightscope X3 ($26k).  I personally found, from 14 months experience,  the Mevo ($399) to be very accurate for outdoor range sessions (spin and carry). 

 

 In defence of the R10, it will get better over time so I expect it to match the little mevo's accuracy. Hope this helps. 

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Mikepaul

[jimmies78]

52 minutes ago, Mikepaul said:

If you're seeking consistent accuracy look at the Mevo ($399) and the Mevo+ ($1999). But to be honest even the $2k devices are not as accurate as trackman ($20k) or Flightscope X3 ($26k).  I personally found, from 14 months experience,  the Mevo ($399) to be very accurate for outdoor range sessions (spin and carry). 

 

 In defence of the R10, it will get better over time so I expect it to match the little mevo's accuracy. Hope this helps. 

 

I've gone for a mevo+.....would love a blp/gc3....but cannot justify it to myself or wife

[dpvu]

Anyone looking to get into more advanced graphical simulation, here's a video of GS Pro integration that is now working. Basically, someone wrote a program that acts as a server on your PC and you tell the Garmin app you're playing E6 on PC. It takes the shot data and provides it to GS Pro and sends responses back to the Garmin to keep it awake. It works well and GS Pro is a lot more digestible for price than E6 and supports community made courses.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by dpvu

[rlefig]

Thanks dpvu, I like it and might take a look at that.

[rlefig]

DPVU, I am new to the simulator side of golf, and for some reason I keep getting cert errors going to discord. Do you know approximately how many courses there are with GSPro also is the practice and training apps as well and would you go that way instead of E6?

 

Thanks

[tezzlacoil]

6 hours ago, rlefig said:

DPVU, I am new to the simulator side of golf, and for some reason I keep getting cert errors going to discord. Do you know approximately how many courses there are with GSPro also is the practice and training apps as well and would you go that way instead of E6?

 

Thanks

This is a pretty good run through of what it's capable of

 

 

[rlefig]

thanks i was just looking that

[mastersak]

Anyone think the Titleist Pro V1 RCT ball will affect the R10 since it's doppler based?

 

 

[Re*Ax]

2 minutes ago, mastersak said:

Anyone think the Titleist Pro V1 RCT ball will affect the R10 since it's doppler based?

 

 

 

I can guarantee it won’t.

 

The R10 does not (can not) measure spin.

[mastersak]

Agree about the lack of spin capture but figured "embedded radar reflective technology" might help it track the ball in space and thus help with launch/speed.

[Copacetic]

3 hours ago, Re*Ax said:

 

I can guarantee it won’t.

 

The R10 does not (can not) measure spin.

Trackman doesn’t ‘measure’ spin either, it calculates it based on other measurements. The titleist ball gives different radar reflections for different parts of the ball, so makes it much easier to calculate spin rate for trackman. This would of course work for R10 also if they can measure quickly enough to differentiate the rates and adjust the algorithm,  if not the ball will actually ruin their algorithm. I’d bet they are working on it right at the moment, assuming titleist are giving them the info they need. Which seems likely. The maker for home users to buy 12 of these balls will be large. 

[Simpsonia]

3 hours ago, mastersak said:

Agree about the lack of spin capture but figured "embedded radar reflective technology" might help it track the ball in space and thus help with launch/speed.

People who have attempted to use metallic dots have reported that the R10 essentially doesn't read them. It makes sense, the object in flight would probably differ too much from what it has been taught to read as a golf ball. It's very likely that the metallic strap under the cover of the new RCT balls would be similar and would appear to be "not a golf ball" to the R10. 

 

  

7 minutes ago, Copacetic said:

Trackman doesn’t ‘measure’ spin either, it calculates it based on other measurements. The titleist ball gives different radar reflections for different parts of the ball, so makes it much easier to calculate spin rate for trackman. This would of course work for R10 also if they can measure quickly enough to differentiate the rates and adjust the algorithm,  if not the ball will actually ruin their algorithm. I’d bet they are working on it right at the moment, assuming titleist are giving them the info they need. Which seems likely. The maker for home users to buy 12 of these balls will be large. 

 

They are almost certainly not working on this since the methods employed by Trackman and Flightscope are patented. That's the whole reason that the Garmin has taken the approach it has to calculating ball flight. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Simpsonia

[Copacetic]

22 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

People who have attempted to use metallic dots have reported that the R10 essentially doesn't read them. It makes sense, the object in flight would probably differ too much from what it has been taught to read as a golf ball. It's very likely that the metallic strap under the cover of the new RCT balls would be similar and would appear to be "not a golf ball" to the R10. 

 

  

 

They are almost certainly not working on this since the methods employed by Trackman and Flightscope are patented. That's the whole reason that the Garmin has taken the approach it has to calculating ball flight. 

It’s nothing to do with what trackman or flightscope are doing at all, they just need a couple of titleist balls to test with and see what reflections they get back off it and adjust their algorithm. They have years of expertise in doing exactly that differentiating reflections for their marine radars, if anything they would be better at this than trackman, assuming they have enough power and speed built into the unit to run the calculations. If not gen2 will probably bring it. The titleist move has opened up this market massively 

[RH2020]

22 hours ago, Copacetic said:

It’s nothing to do with what trackman or flightscope are doing at all, they just need a couple of titleist balls to test with and see what reflections they get back off it and adjust their algorithm. They have years of expertise in doing exactly that differentiating reflections for their marine radars, if anything they would be better at this than trackman, assuming they have enough power and speed built into the unit to run the calculations. If not gen2 will probably bring it. The titleist move has opened up this market massively 

This has great deal of potential for sure

[whumber]

On 11/4/2021 at 2:38 PM, Copacetic said:

Trackman doesn’t ‘measure’ spin either, it calculates it based on other measurements. The titleist ball gives different radar reflections for different parts of the ball, so makes it much easier to calculate spin rate for trackman. This would of course work for R10 also if they can measure quickly enough to differentiate the rates and adjust the algorithm,  if not the ball will actually ruin their algorithm. I’d bet they are working on it right at the moment, assuming titleist are giving them the info they need. Which seems likely. The maker for home users to buy 12 of these balls will be large. 

This is incorrect, Trackman does indeed measure spin directly by breaking down the harmonic content of the reflected signal into what Trackman calls the "spin harmonics". They have a nice little write up about it here. It's when there radar fails to collect enough data with a high enough SNR indoors that it will try a secondary method based on club data to estimate spin.

 

Quote

Measuring spin rate

The spin rate of a golf ball has a massive impact on the ball flight as well as how the ball behaves once it impacts the ground. For high speed drives the difference of just a couple of 100 rpm’s have a noticeable influence on the ball flight and carry/total distance. TrackMan’s patented method of measuring the spin rate by using the Doppler radar signature of a spinning ball has been confirmed by various research projects/institutes to be state-of-the-art. The accuracy is within 20 rpm.

Consider a golf ball launched with backspin and illuminated by a Doppler radar positioned behind the golfer; the top of the golf ball will move towards the radar compared to the center of the ball, and the bottom of the golf ball will move away from the radar compared to the center of the ball. This means that the Doppler radar does not only see one velocity of a flying spinning golf ball, but a range of velocities. It turns out that the range of velocities is not continuous but has discrete components being harmonics of the spin frequency and symmetrically arranged around the ball velocity in the Doppler spectrum.

The spin rate measuring principle does not rely on any markers on the ball or knowledge of ball diameter etc. Because of the accuracy and robustness of the spin rate measurement principle, TrackMan uses this method to determine spin rate of all kinds of sports balls, including baseball, tennis ball, cricket ball, football/soccer ball, and, of course, the golf ball. All sports where spin rate is one of the key metrics for controlling ball flight and ground impact behavior.

 

Spin axis, however, is not measured directly on Trackman but is either measured indirectly by examining the ball flight along with the known spin rate outdoors or examining club data indoors.

Edited November 5, 2021 by whumber

[Copacetic]

21 hours ago, whumber said:

This is incorrect, Trackman does indeed measure spin directly by breaking down the harmonic content of the reflected signal into what Trackman calls the "spin harmonics". They have a nice little write up about it here. It's when there radar fails to collect enough data with a high enough SNR indoors that it will try a secondary method based on club data to estimate spin.

 

 

Spin axis, however, is not measured directly on Trackman but is either measured indirectly by examining the ball flight along with the known spin rate outdoors or examining club data indoors.

You’ve literally posted an article that shows their technique for calculating spin, showing they don’t measure it directly. That’s why I say they don’t ‘measure’ it, they calculate it based on other measurement. It’s the definition of indirect. 
 

You appear to have an entirely indirect understanding of what direct means. 

[whumber]

8 minutes ago, Copacetic said:

You’ve literally posted an article that shows their technique for calculating spin, showing they don’t measure it directly. That’s why I say they don’t ‘measure’ it, they calculate it based on other measurement. It’s the definition of indirect. 
 

You appear to have an entirely indirect understanding of what direct means. 

If you think that's indirect then you also don't think radar units can measure velocity either. They're literally measuring spin by measuring the velocity of the surface of the ball, you can't get much more direct than that unless your only acceptable measurement would be directly measuring angular velocity.

Edited November 6, 2021 by whumber

[Davedd]

Planning on using an iPad mini with E6 and a projector with r10. Any thoughts, pros and cons of screen size of latest iPad mini compared to an iPad 9th gen? Would the mini cut viewing landscape and would that cut down vision be the same on the projector screen?

[rlefig]

I have the 9th and it works well. E6 display is smaller than the projection display for some reason. I need to zoom it in to get good size

[Wormkiller]

Sorry for probably asking a question thats been covered many times before, but if I was looking for a simulator that I can take down the range and "pretend" I was playing an actual course, would the R10 be a worthwhile investment?

 

Eg: hit ball, look at phone screen to see where it ends up and distance to flag, choose a club and hit again etc.

[Davedd]

In Sydney, Australia. Ordered the Garmin R10 direct from Garmin Australia back on August 20th. Rang up Garmin and I am pretty high up in the queue. Just received an email saying delivery has been pushed back to late January and possibly longer. Apparently deliveries in Australia are coming from Taiwan. 5 month delay. Disappointing but what can you do

[hammersia]

8 hours ago, Wormkiller said:

Sorry for probably asking a question thats been covered many times before, but if I was looking for a simulator that I can take down the range and "pretend" I was playing an actual course, would the R10 be a worthwhile investment?

 

Eg: hit ball, look at phone screen to see where it ends up and distance to flag, choose a club and hit again etc.

 

From all the reviews I've seen, certainly in terms of "least faff", the Garmin would be the best bet for this yes, hooks up to your phone quickly - but being radar any metal in the stalls will throw it off. Outside on a grass range would be better, although all launch monitors still get confused by divots occasionally. 

[tezzlacoil]

19 minutes ago, hammersia said:

 

From all the reviews I've seen, certainly in terms of "least faff", the Garmin would be the best bet for this yes, hooks up to your phone quickly - but being radar any metal in the stalls will throw it off. Outside on a grass range would be better, although all launch monitors still get confused by divots occasionally. 

 

I've taken mine to a range with stalls. Seemed to perform fine.

 

Like mentioned its very compact, unobtrusive, and easy to get going. The main pain is lining it up and then after that you'd need to hit your irons close to where you drive from.

 

I just found myself a little too self conscious using it at the range to be honest! Preferred it at home. But if it don't bother you I can't see why you couldn't use it to play virtual courses at the range.

[richteddy]

How have people found hitting into a metal framed net outside with the r10, has the metal poles interfered?  My frame is 9x9ft and 6ft deep.

[stanjl50]

7 hours ago, richteddy said:

How have people found hitting into a metal framed net outside with the r10, has the metal poles interfered?  My frame is 9x9ft and 6ft deep.

I have a commonly purchased outside net with metal poles. I haven't noticed any problems. Distances and direction seem fine. Since the net stops the ball I can't talk about shot shape and I haven't taken it to the range. 

[dpvu]

On 11/8/2021 at 4:01 AM, hammersia said:

 

From all the reviews I've seen, certainly in terms of "least faff", the Garmin would be the best bet for this yes, hooks up to your phone quickly - but being radar any metal in the stalls will throw it off. Outside on a grass range would be better, although all launch monitors still get confused by divots occasionally. 

 

I wouldn't say ANY metal will throw it off. Metal that is moving definitely is a problem but dividers, pillars etc. are fine.

 

The unit is great at the range but I find sometimes the inconsistency in the range balls makes the data a little tougher to use but nothing beats smashing drives and seeing big numbers to back up the feeling.