Garmin Approach R10 Portable Golf Launch Monitor

[hammersia]

1 hour ago, LeftDot said:

I searched the thread for a couple of different keywords and didn't see this brought up: Has anyone run in to issues with the R10 going in to standby too frequently when temps get hot? I've had a couple of range sessions where that seems to be what's happened. R10 goes to standby, sometimes the app will tell me sometimes not. Try to wake it up with the button, green light, back to flashing white after maybe 5 seconds. Only way to fix it is to end the range session and resync before opening a new session.

 

Gonna have to be a goober at the range for the rest of the summer, setting up a sunshade from alignment sticks and my towel in order to keep my gadgets within operating temperature 😆

 

 

Seems feasible that it might overheat. I've used it on warm days but not in direct sunlight (covered bays) so no issue so far.

 

Its a small black device with a lot of electrotrickery inside it. 

[LeftDot]

On 7/5/2022 at 10:41 AM, hammersia said:

Seems feasible that it might overheat. I've used it on warm days but not in direct sunlight (covered bays) so no issue so far.

 

Its a small black device with a lot of electrotrickery inside it. 

 

My range is outdoors and with no dividers between slots, unfortunately. Last session not only was the R10 acting up, but my phone also overheated. I just picked up some small wooden dowels from the orange box store and am going to whip up a quick and dirty sunshade I can keep in my bag.

 

==

 

On a different note, how can I get my average yardage per club in the app? I have a bunch of range sessions saved, and all the data to go along with them, but the "My Bag" section doesn't have any data in it.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by LeftDot

[jjschafe]

9 minutes ago, LeftDot said:

 

My range is outdoors and with no dividers between slots, unfortunately. Last session not only was the R10 acting up, but my phone also overheated. I just picked up some small wooden dowels from the orange box store and am going to whip up a quick and dirty sunshade I can keep in my bag.

 

==

 

On a different note, how can I get my average yardage per club in the app? I have a bunch of range sessions saved, and all the data to go along with them, but the "My Bag" section doesn't have any data in it.

 

 

You can't.  There's been a ticket open for a long time on Garmin's support forums to get it added.  I'm not holding my breath.

 

Better news, I've been beta testing a PC based program aimed at filling the huge gap left in Garmin's app around data analysis.  It is currently still buggy, and will always require a manual data upload (aka, doesn't sync to Garmin's cloud) but it is really really powerful from the analytics standpoint.  

https://www.r10analytics.com/

[LeftDot]

On 7/6/2022 at 12:49 PM, jjschafe said:

 

You can't.  There's been a ticket open for a long time on Garmin's support forums to get it added.  I'm not holding my breath.

 

Better news, I've been beta testing a PC based program aimed at filling the huge gap left in Garmin's app around data analysis.  It is currently still buggy, and will always require a manual data upload (aka, doesn't sync to Garmin's cloud) but it is really really powerful from the analytics standpoint.  

https://www.r10analytics.com/

 

Yikes, seems like a big oversight on their part. OTOH I'm glad I can't readily see how bad my yardages are skewed by mishits. I know I should be cleaning up the session data but sometimes I forget to do that.

 

 

-----

 

On 7/6/2022 at 12:36 PM, LeftDot said:

 

My range is outdoors and with no dividers between slots, unfortunately. Last session not only was the R10 acting up, but my phone also overheated. I just picked up some small wooden dowels from the orange box store and am going to whip up a quick and dirty sunshade I can keep in my bag.

 

 

Quick update on this:

 

I again experienced glitchy high-temperature R10 behavior over the weekend. Range session in direct sun, about 85°F. R10 went into standby very quickly until I put my bag above it to provide some shade. No issues after that.

 

My wooden dowel experiment didn't work out quite the way I wanted it to. I don't have the right tools to execute what I wanted to do. Instead I am going to pull the 3-way corner connectors out of this kit and use either cut-down driveway reflector stakes (the same ones people use as alignment aids) or some leftover tomato stakes I have to frame one out. Then I plan on wrapping either with leftover garden cloth or purchase some burlap or cheap fabric to make the shade. I am going to keep the dowels w/fabric removable from the corner piece so that it's bag-portable.

 

[prusd]

Are there any patent experts out there?   I just noticed that this garmin patent received approval a few weeks ago and that its application has been granted.  Does that mean its a matter of time until the device hits the market?

 

Looks like garmin is coming out with a radar-photometric launch monitor device.

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20200398138A1/en?assignee=garmin&oq=assignee:garmin&sort=new

[whumber]

37 minutes ago, prusd said:

Are there any patent experts out there?   I just noticed that this garmin patent received approval a few weeks ago and that its application has been granted.  Does that mean its a matter of time until the device hits the market?

 

Looks like garmin is coming out with a radar-photometric launch monitor device.

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20200398138A1/en?assignee=garmin&oq=assignee:garmin&sort=new

Reads like they're combining the G80 with a Skytrak. I would be very surprised if Garmin doesn't come out with something in the next year or so; they operate in a fairly predictable pattern.

Edited July 12, 2022 by whumber

[hammersia]

4 hours ago, whumber said:

Reads like they're combining the G80 with a Skytrak. I would be very surprised if Garmin doesn't come out with something in the next year or so; they operate in a fairly predictable pattern.

I know development can go on for a while, but the first date on that patent is 2019 - can't really see Garmin going down a photo metric route now imho, it's not their thing. 

 

I'd love them just to refine the current device, keeping it small.

[LeftDot]

12 hours ago, prusd said:

Are there any patent experts out there?   I just noticed that this garmin patent received approval a few weeks ago and that its application has been granted.  Does that mean its a matter of time until the device hits the market?

 

Looks like garmin is coming out with a radar-photometric launch monitor device.

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20200398138A1/en?assignee=garmin&oq=assignee:garmin&sort=new

 

11 hours ago, whumber said:

Reads like they're combining the G80 with a Skytrak. I would be very surprised if Garmin doesn't come out with something in the next year or so; they operate in a fairly predictable pattern.

 

6 hours ago, hammersia said:

I know development can go on for a while, but the first date on that patent is 2019 - can't really see Garmin going down a photo metric route now imho, it's not their thing. 

 

I'd love them just to refine the current device, keeping it small.

 

 

 

It reads as primarily photometric - camera 1 takes one image, camera 2 takes a second image shortly thereafter, and then algorithms determine ball flight characteristics based on "alignment marks" on the ball, with the radar being used to determine when to take pictures. They do discuss potentially using the radar to measure club and/or ball speed, but then later on they also discuss determining ball speed via algo based on the two pictures.

 

Given that they specifically talk about radar limitations indoors and the high cost of high-speed cameras it sounds like the goal is a cheap GC3.  

 

[hammersia]

7 minutes ago, LeftDot said:

 

 

 

 

 

It reads as primarily photometric - camera 1 takes one image, camera 2 takes a second image shortly thereafter, and then algorithms determine ball flight characteristics based on "alignment marks" on the ball, with the radar being used to determine when to take pictures. They do discuss potentially using the radar to measure club and/or ball speed, but then later on they also discuss determining ball speed via algo based on the two pictures.

 

Given that they specifically talk about radar limitations indoors and the high cost of high-speed cameras it sounds like the goal is a cheap GC3.  

 

Apparently Garmin do make dashcams and use optical methods for heart rate sensing. So maybe they do have the capabilities for this, would be fantastic if so. 

 

However, two images of the ball only sounds like my 14 year old Vector Pro. Hope there's more to it.

[Bubbtubbs]

10 minutes ago, LeftDot said:

 

 

 

 

 

It reads as primarily photometric - camera 1 takes one image, camera 2 takes a second image shortly thereafter, and then algorithms determine ball flight characteristics based on "alignment marks" on the ball, with the radar being used to determine when to take pictures. They do discuss potentially using the radar to measure club and/or ball speed, but then later on they also discuss determining ball speed via algo based on the two pictures.

 

Given that they specifically talk about radar limitations indoors and the high cost of high-speed cameras it sounds like the goal is a cheap GC3.  

 

With only two images, it sounds more like Skytrak with radar trigger instead of light curtains.

[prusd]

Well, my hope its a better, cheaper skytrak.  One reason the R10 is so popular is because of its price point.  If garmin can put out a reliable photometric device at a reliable price, e.g. say between 1k and 1500, that would be ideal.

 

They seem to have cost in mind in the patent listing.  They really want to put out an affordable camera based monitor.  

 

"High-speed cameras capable of frame rates exceeding one thousand frames per second make existing golf launch monitors too expensive for the average golfer. By utilizing two or more low-speed cameras timed to take pictures at a rapid interval, the two or more low-speed cameras can provide the benefits of a high-speed camera for a substantially reduced cost. Examples of low-speed cameras include cameras capable of fewer than one thousand frames per second, fewer than five hundred frames per second, fewer than two hundred frames per second, fewer than one-hundred fifty frames per second, fewer than seventy frames per second, fewer than sixty frames per second, in a range of thirty to one hundred frames per second, in a range of thirty to two hundred frames per second, in a range of forty to sixty frames per second, or in some other range."

 

Also the upcoming Uneekor Mini is supposedly going to have to have two cameras (but I think the cameras on those are going to be high speed, but not sure yet).  

 

I am excited as to what the future holds...

[whumber]

8 hours ago, Bubbtubbs said:

With only two images, it sounds more like Skytrak with radar trigger instead of light curtains.

That's pretty much what I got. Skytrak + radar for the trigger and club head speed.

[cfochs]

I'm sure this has probably been discussed, but I don't feel like reading through all of the posts.  Does it matter what kind of balls are used for this device?  Will crappy range balls have an impact on the data vs a normal ball one would use on the course?

[jjschafe]

For those wishing there was better data analytics on the Garmin app, we finally have a good stop-gap tool.  I've been beta testing for about a month and there is some really good stuff here. Definitely geared more toward engineer dorks like me, but, deal with it 🙂 Anyway, he just released the first public version, for free:

 

http://www.r10analytics.com/

[vsabre]

2 hours ago, jjschafe said:

For those wishing there was better data analytics on the Garmin app, we finally have a good stop-gap tool.  I've been beta testing for about a month and there is some really good stuff here. Definitely geared more toward engineer dorks like me, but, deal with it 🙂 Anyway, he just released the first public version, for free:

 

http://www.r10analytics.com/

 Nice job, I'll give it a run later this week. Looks like you put in a ton of work and I'll make a donation once I run it. I'm a big fan of the R10 and was part of last summer's pre-order. Thanks!

[jjschafe]

39 minutes ago, vsabre said:

 Nice job, I'll give it a run later this week. Looks like you put in a ton of work and I'll make a donation once I run it. I'm a big fan of the R10 and was part of last summer's pre-order. Thanks!

Just to be clear, I'm not the developer, I was just a beta tester.  My post wasn't as clear as it should have been. No credit goes to me!  🙂

[rlefig]

I downloaded it and will give it a shot. I take it this only works with the Garmin apps like HTH and the driving range correct? I have not been using the R10 of late as the garage is like 100*

[cfochs]

Best Buy currently has this unit on sale for $499.

[nbar]

FYI I updated to 4.2 on the R10 and found the distances are actually down from 4.0. I ran test on Garmin driving range, GSPro and Awesome golf all were 10 yards + down. I had to set the altitude to 2000 feet on GSPro to get it back to were it was before.

Edited July 26, 2022 by nbar

[LeftDot]

2 hours ago, nbar said:

FYI I updated to 4.2 on the R10 and found the distances are actually down from 4.0. I ran test on Garmin driving range, GSPro and Awesome golf all were 10 yards + down. I had to set the altitude to 2000 feet on GSPro to get it back to were it was before.

 

How/when did you do this? I feel like I checked mine when also trying to work out a potential bug on my VA3, and didn't see any updates.

[nbar]

21 hours ago, LeftDot said:

 

How/when did you do this? I feel like I checked mine when also trying to work out a potential bug on my VA3, and didn't see any updates.

To update the R10 connect it to your PC and run Garmin Express it will check your software level and update it if needed. BTW they roll the updates out in groups so you may have to keep checking until yours is available. Secondly they release a new Garmin golf app which is much nicer. To update the app go on Google play search for Garmin golf and update it.

Edited July 27, 2022 by nbar

[rlefig]

3 hours ago, nbar said:

To update the R10 connect it to your PC and run Garmin Express it will check your software level and update it if needed. BTW they roll the updates out in groups so you may have to keep checking until yours is available. Secondly they release a new Garmin golf app which is much nicer. To update the app go on Google play search for Garmin golf and update it.

Besides the additional driving ranges what is that much nicer with the app? I have not used it yet but read about it.

 

Thanks

[zap311]

Hey guys, I just got the R10 to try out, primarily for my backyard net setup. My first impression is that it’s very cool! I really enjoy the virtual range and the E6 courses. I also have a Rapsodo MLM and wished it had more entertainment features like the R10. I have few questions for those that are experts:

 

1) My distances with the Garmin Golf app in range setting are pretty accurate, but when I play E6, the carry distances are much higher. Do I need to calibrate the E6 in some way?

 

2) I’m using a 1-inch hitting mat and the R10 on fairly level ground behind it. Do you think a stand is required to get the right launch angle? I can’t tell if it’s necessary, since the R10 with its stand is fairly even in height with the ball on the mat.
 

3) It seems like the R10 direction was skewing left a bit, so I’m wondering if I have it lined up wrong. Do you line up the device’s red line with the ball or your aim line between your feet and the ball?

[LeftDot]

16 hours ago, zap311 said:

Hey guys, I just got the R10 to try out, primarily for my backyard net setup. My first impression is that it’s very cool! I really enjoy the virtual range and the E6 courses. I also have a Rapsodo MLM and wished it had more entertainment features like the R10. I have few questions for those that are experts:

 

1) My distances with the Garmin Golf app in range setting are pretty accurate, but when I play E6, the carry distances are much higher. Do I need to calibrate the E6 in some way?

 

2) I’m using a 1-inch hitting mat and the R10 on fairly level ground behind it. Do you think a stand is required to get the right launch angle? I can’t tell if it’s necessary, since the R10 with its stand is fairly even in height with the ball on the mat.
 

3) It seems like the R10 direction was skewing left a bit, so I’m wondering if I have it lined up wrong. Do you line up the device’s red line with the ball or your aim line between your feet and the ball?

 

Can't help with question 1, but for 2 and 3:

 

2) Consensus is that a stand with spirit level will help you get the most accurate numbers. The R10 may look even in height and level but the stand will help you know it's level. Plus, the R10 is meant to be taller than the ball, not even with it.

 

3) The red line on the back of the R10 is meant to be aligned through your ball down your target line. It's something that I really struggle with when setting it up. If you buy a stand, you can get one that fits a small Ryobi spirit level/laser line combo underneath the R10 so that in theory you can use the laser to make sure it's lined up right... but the laser isn't bright enough to make use of it in direct sunlight, and probably not in cloudy weather either.

[PuttingOnAirs]

Been away from this thread for months. I see the R10 is available at golf galaxy. Have there been software fixes for the R10 over the last few months? Is it a no brained yet?

[nbar]

9 hours ago, PuttingOnAirs said:

Been away from this thread for months. I see the R10 is available at golf galaxy. Have there been software fixes for the R10 over the last few months? Is it a no brained yet?

Both the R10 and the Golf app have bee updated. The Garmin Golf app has altitude. humidity and temp adjustments. By tuning them you can get your carry distance a lot closer than before.

[hammersia]

I noticed this video review where the guy is very insistent that the Awesome Golf app gives better more accurate numbers than the Garmin software:

 

 

Like almost all such reviews there is no actual statistical analysis, it's based on his feelings about what the shot did hitting into a net. I was a bit sceptical. 

 

My test is using the latest Garmin software update which came out since my original tests.

 

The trial version of Awesome golf is free for two weeks so I thought I'd continue my previous analysis and do the same testing against Top Tracer as I wrote about a few weeks ago but putting Awesome and the Garmin software side by side.

 

The whole thing unfortunately was a complete faff and the results aren't as comprehensive as I wanted. I tested the Awesome first with a set of balls, then the Garmin app with a second set - I couldn't get both running at the same time despite having two phones and a laptop.

 

1) Couldn't see in the Awesome golf app or the companion app how to calibrate the Garmin, it's supposed to work through the Garmin app but I'm pretty sure it didn't, just seemed to connect directly. The Garmin was still leveled on a proper leveling stand etc. and it should only be necessary to calibrate when the readings are obviously dodgy, but still not very satisfactory from a testing point of view.

2) The Awesome app missed a ludicrous number of shots, probably half of them. Never had that problem before. 

3) The Garmin app with the second set of balls missed a few shots, but nowhere near as many.

 

So I ended up with only 66 shots total between the two sets of balls, although I have my previous Garmin app test figures to go against. Almost no wind so that was a good thing as conditions didn't vary at all through the test.

 

So was Awesome golf awesomely better than the Garmin numbers?

 

Not at all. In the David Maxwell video above he focuses on driver a lot and he's determined that Awesome golf is better. On my figures the average direction error with the driver was 6.8 degrees versus 8.8 with the Garmin software, although on previous tests I got between 4 and 5 degrees error with Garmin. 

Driver carry yardage error with Awesome was 8 yards, 3 yards with the Garmin.

 

With the 6 and 8 iron, Awesome was a little bit more accurate for direction and distance than Garmin, but slightly worse than the previous tests with Garmin.

 

4 iron the errors were pretty much identical, 3 yards and 4 degrees out for both.

 

The outlier was the PW, with Awesome errors twice as large as the Garmin at 7 yards distance error and 7 degrees out - though again, bear in mind small sample size.

 

Partial wedges, Awesome was slightly more accurate for distance and identical for angle error. 

 

Overall, the number of shots wrongly identified as going left or right was virtually identical to previous tests and identical between the two - 79% correct for Awesome and 78% for Garmin. 

 

Conclusion:

The test didn't go very well. The setup should have been identical to my previous test but the Garmin software numbers with the latest software update weren't as good as my previous tests and Awesome missed a crazy number of shots.

 

I will may try and repeat it at the weekend, but to be honest I'm not seeing any evidence that shows Awesome is giving better numbers than Garmin, so I'm tempted to draw a line under it and crack on with actual practice lol.

 

[jjschafe]

Don't forget, though, that hitting at a range is pretty apples and oranges compared to hitting into a net.  At a range the Garmin unit can see a lot more shot shape and can measure spin directly, which makes everything much more accurate.  Hitting into a net, the results are much more dependent on algorithm, which may be where Awesome Golf separates itself.  Personally I've only used Garmin and E6, and I find Garmin Range to be very accurate on carry distance, although spin with irons seems to be consistently low. 

 

*Not trying to be a wet blanket.  I appreciate you taking a scientific approach to try to make some real conclusions.

[hammersia]

19 minutes ago, jjschafe said:

Don't forget, though, that hitting at a range is pretty apples and oranges compared to hitting into a net.  At a range the Garmin unit can see a lot more shot shape and can measure spin directly, which makes everything much more accurate.  Hitting into a net, the results are much more dependent on algorithm, which may be where Awesome Golf separates itself.  Personally I've only used Garmin and E6, and I find Garmin Range to be very accurate on carry distance, although spin with irons seems to be consistently low. 

 

*Not trying to be a wet blanket.  I appreciate you taking a scientific approach to try to make some real conclusions.

Yes it's a good point, I was going to write up the "net vs range" issue but my post was already a bit long.

 

The trouble is of course hitting into a net the whole thing just becomes by definition a hypothesis / extrapolation that can't be tested, either by R10, Quad, Trackman or anything else.

[kiwihacker]

Can anyone tell me what the experience is like hitting at a range at night where the lighting isn't ideal? I bought my R10 this week and have used it once at my local range on Tuesday night. It setup fine and had no problem using it but the distances were really short and I'm talking nearly every club in the bag not just driver. I'm going to test it ASAP during daylight and also into a net at my local club. 

 

Also re the Garmin updates. Having just bought it would the software be fairly up to date being a recently purchased unit or should I still run the latest update? Thanks in advance.