3 current scams within the golf industry

[Fairway14]

1) getting fit for clubs is a must

a) 90% of the world's golfers shoot 90 or worse. If this population wants to play better shots and improve their scoring the "must do " is technique learning and practice, not getting fit for clubs. But OEM's want to sell clubs and telling people they need to "get fit" helps sell clubs.

 

2) sneakers for golf

a) the athletic styled low profile no spikes footwear sells for $100 or more per pair yet does not provide good support for walking and, or, swinging a golf club. The cement construction sneaker style footwear is disposable so it's a good business for the producers.

 

3) strokes gained stats

a) Again, 90% of golfers will buy anything and right now the message that sells is is "closer proximity to the hole , no matter how far off target, results in lower scores". OEM club sellers and fitters use this to sell their products and services.

 

Please post to this thread money making scams you believe are prevalent within the golf industry today.

[KBong]

47 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

1) getting fit for clubs is a must

a) 90% of the world's golfers shoot 90 or worse. If this population wants to play better shots and improve their scoring the "must do " is technique learning and practice, not getting fit for clubs. But OEM's want to sell clubs and telling people they need to "get fit" helps sell clubs.

 

2) sneakers for golf

a) the athletic styled low profile no spikes footwear sells for $100 or more per pair yet does not provide good support for walking and, or, swinging a golf club. The cement construction sneaker style footwear is disposable so it's a good business for the producers.

 

Agree

1) Yes, for the majority of golfers who can't break 90 on a consistent basis....money is better spent on learning a proper swing and game vs. fitted clubs.

 

2) I have been wearing my running shoes for 80% of my golf recently....no change in scores.

[chipa]

I agree getting fit for clubs w/o a repeating swing is a scam.

 

However, I do prefer to play in sneakers because of knee problems I want to make sure my left knee can turn out if needed, lots of good players have done and do this at times, I just don't want to take a chance that my feet can't slide enough.

 

I'll add another one - irons with a lot of weight on the toe(most are anymore) are easier to hit - this will not be the case for those that start the swing with the left hand as I have found it, it feels significantly heavier and its hard to get the clubface square.

[klebs01]

1 hour ago, Fairway14 said:

1) getting fit for clubs is a must

a) 90% of the world's golfers shoot 90 or worse. If this population wants to play better shots and improve their scoring the "must do " is technique learning and practice, not getting fit for clubs. But OEM's want to sell clubs and telling people they need to "get fit" helps sell clubs.

 

2) sneakers for golf

a) the athletic styled low profile no spikes footwear sells for $100 or more per pair yet does not provide good support for walking and, or, swinging a golf club. The cement construction sneaker style footwear is disposable so it's a good business for the producers.

 

3) strokes gained stats

a) Again, 90% of golfers will buy anything and right now the message that sells is is "closer proximity to the hole , no matter how far off target, results in lower scores". OEM club sellers and fitters use this to sell their products and services.

 

Please post to this thread money making scams you believe are prevalent within the golf industry today.

It’s clear you don’t understand strokes gained or how to apply the lessons learned from the data. Please read Broadie’s book or learn Fawset’s principles before posting any more on the subject. 

[MikeW2]

I like the look of sneakers and to me they are a little more comfortable but after having my back leg slide out on me on a side hill lie to have my ankle roll over as I dropped about 2 feet into a bunker resulting in a severe sprain, only shoes with spikes for me from now on.

[King_Slender]

1) Regardless of skill level, you need to at least have a shaft that matches your swing speed and should have shafts cut to the proper length. 

2) I think the opposite - the guys on Tour still wearing nails (many just wear those like Stinger that are a combo with a metal spike) don't really need to.  

3) Agree, but honestly haven't even seen this marketing.  So few people even know what strokes gained means it would fly over their head. 

[b.mattay]

3 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

3) strokes gained stats

a) Again, 90% of golfers will buy anything and right now the message that sells is is "closer proximity to the hole , no matter how far off target, results in lower scores". OEM club sellers and fitters use this to sell their products and services.

This is 100% not what course strategists advise. Don't twist it like that. Obviously, 50 yards closer in a water hazard or gorse bush is a terrible situation. The "get it as close as possible" applies when penalty hazards are not a factor in the vast majority of a player's dispersion pattern.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by b.mattay

[Fairway14]

1 hour ago, b.mattay said:

This is 100% not what course strategists advise. Don't twist it like that. Obviously, 50 yards closer in a water hazard or gorse bush is a terrible situation. The "get it as close as possible" applies when penalty hazards are not a factor in the vast majority of a player's dispersion pattern.

 

 

 

On the golf courses I see too many guys go for par 5 greens in two and end up with difficult 40 yard bunker shots, or having to pitch/chip from green side trees, or trying to lob a 25 yard shot from a sloped lie in the rough over a bunker to a tight flag location . There are lots of very difficult shots within 50 yards of a green that are not technically "penalty hazards". Meanwhile 75 to 90 yards  from the middle of the fairway is a relatively easy shot.

I see lots of guys hit driver crooked all day and leave themselves 130 yards from the green  in the trees , or within the rough, or having a side hill lie within a fairway bunker. Meanwhile a 160 yard shot from the middle of the fairway is relatively easy.

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Fairway14

[8thehardway]

Putting instruction.

 

Forget expensive lessons, boring books and custom putters too; just hit the ball harder or softer and more to the left or right

 

[Soloman1]

Golf is a scam. Abandon all hope. Thar be dragons and demons on the golf course.

[Fairway14]

27 minutes ago, 8thehardway said:

Putting instruction.

 

Forget expensive lessons, boring books and custom putters too; just hit the ball harder or softer and more to the left or right

 

 

 The teaching pros I know tell me that years can go by without a single person scheduling a putting lesson. I agree that putter fittings could be a scam.

[Cwing]

4 hours ago, chipa said:

I agree getting fit for clubs w/o a repeating swing is a scam.

 

However, I do prefer to play in sneakers because of knee problems I want to make sure my left knee can turn out if needed, lots of good players have done and do this at times, I just don't want to take a chance that my feet can't slide enough.

 

I'll add another one - irons with a lot of weight on the toe(most are anymore) are easier to hit - this will not be the case for those that start the swing with the left hand as I have found it, it feels significantly heavier and its hard to get the clubface square.

Golfers whom score 90+ may very well have a repeating swing path. Their swing simply has a big error and is full of compensations and they cannot repeatedly time the swing. As a result, it can be left / right, thin / fat. Nonetheless, their swing path may in fact, be very consistent.

 

That stated, money would be better spent on lessons but ONLY if the golfer has the time and desire to put in the work.

 

Otherwise, lessons can be a complete waste of time and money. Nearly all of those I know that get/received instruction are no better and sometimes worse after said instruction and it was’t because the instructor was poor. Most simply don’t have the time or don’t put in the effort.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Cwing

[caniac6]

1 hour ago, 8thehardway said:

Putting instruction.

 

Forget expensive lessons, boring books and custom putters too; just hit the ball harder or softer and more to the left or right

 

I had a putting lesson this year. The Pro changed my set up significantly, and helped me with a putter that fits my stroke. It has been my biggest area of improvement this year.

[Fairway14]

12 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

I had a putting lesson this year. The Pro changed my set up significantly, and helped me with a putter that fits my stroke. It has been my biggest area of improvement this year.

 

What were the set up changes which the pro taught you ?

[caniac6]

7 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

What were the set up changes which the pro taught you ?

Weaker right hand and higher hands. I just about have the putter in a position like Steve Stricker. Also, I switched from a blade with a flow neck to a mallet with a flow neck. 

[golfortennis]

2 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

On the golf courses I see too many guys go for par 5 greens in two and end up with difficult 40 yard bunker shots, or having to pitch/chip from green side trees, or trying to lob a 25 yard shot from a sloped lie in the rough over a bunker to a tight flag location . There are lots of very difficult shots within 50 yards of a green that are not technically "penalty hazards". Meanwhile 75 to 90 yards  from the middle of the fairway is a relatively easy shot.

I see lots of guys hit driver crooked all day and leave themselves 130 yards from the green  in the trees , or within the rough, or having a side hill lie within a fairway bunker. Meanwhile a 160 yard shot from the middle of the fairway is relatively easy.

 

 

See @klebs01 post again.  Pay particular attention to the last sentence.  

 

[LeftDaddy]

I guess the OP didn’t get enough skewering in the other post, so he thought he’d try again in a new one. Lol. How many tries is it going to take for you to find a place where the majority agree with your issues with Strokes Gained?

 

And by the way, it is obvious that you don’t understand strokes gained and/or that you didn’t actually read the book. Oh well…your loss. Even if you didn’t agree with all of it you could maybe learn something…

 

I do agree with the point about club fitting, but not necessarily because fitting is inherently bad, but because the vast majority of fitters don’t know what they are doing. Kinda like your situation with strokes gained…you don’t understand it, nor do your friends apparently, so what you take from it is wrong…but there’s nothing inherently wrong with what it is saying. 

[b.mattay]

2 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

On the golf courses I see too many guys go for par 5 greens in two and end up with difficult 40 yard bunker shots, or having to pitch/chip from green side trees, or trying to lob a 25 yard shot from a sloped lie in the rough over a bunker to a tight flag location . There are lots of very difficult shots within 50 yards of a green that are not technically "penalty hazards". Meanwhile 75 to 90 yards  from the middle of the fairway is a relatively easy shot.

I see lots of guys hit driver crooked all day and leave themselves 130 yards from the green  in the trees , or within the rough, or having a side hill lie within a fairway bunker. Meanwhile a 160 yard shot from the middle of the fairway is relatively easy.

 

All "can" be true, but you have to look at the range of all likely outcomes, not just one outcome to one outcome. If a significant amount of a players dispersion pattern is in a bunker 40 yards from the green or greenside trees, then there is likely a better shot choice. Hypothetically, if 1/10 end up there and the 9/10 other shots gain 0.25 shots on average, then it would be worth it to go for it.

 

Likewise, the fairway may be way wider at 160 then 130, in which case laying back to 160 would be smart. However, if the the fairway is approximately the same width with the same features on both sides at 160 to 130, probably better to hit it to 130. Dropping back a club might bump the fairway hit % by 10%, which likely doesn't offset the increased approach length. 
 

I think the mantra "get it as close as possible, within acceptable risk" still holds. 

[ChipNRun]

7 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

1) getting fit for clubs is a must

a) 90% of the world's golfers shoot 90 or worse. If this population wants to play better shots and improve their scoring the "must do " is technique learning and practice, not getting fit for clubs. But OEM's want to sell clubs and telling people they need to "get fit" helps sell clubs.

 

Reality check: Golf is a cyborg activity, the merging of man (the golfer) and machine (the club) to accomplish the task of hitting the golf ball. Swing and equipment choice must be developed in unison for best results.

 

If you want to say, "you can't buy a golf game," I can agree with that. The clubs must mesh with a tolerable swing motion. But your implication that people can just take any bag of clubs and play decent golf doesn't always hold.

 

Once a person has down the basic swing motion, a fitting can help take wobbles out of the swing caused by man/machine mismatch. And, there's multiple levels of fitting. The extremes are:

• Static fitting: Fitter checks over player and clubs to find best flex for golfers swing, best shaft length and weight and grip size, and best lie angle (although a dynamic lie angle where the golfer hits some shots is best).
• Full-bag fitting: Fitter checks player for different aspects of game, and includes such launch monitor data as launch angle, shot apex, spin rates.

Struggling golfers I know who got fit found that their old clubs had the wrong shaft weight, or the wrong lie angle.

 

6 hours ago, chipa said:

I agree getting fit for clubs w/o a repeating swing is a scam.

 

OK, what do you mean by a repeating swing?  Does your swing have general characteristics to it? Repeating is not a zero / one or  yes / no phenomenon... it proceeds in degrees. 

[chipa]

16 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

 

OK, what do you mean by a repeating swing?  Does your swing have general characteristics to it? Repeating is not a zero / one or  yes / no phenomenon... it proceeds in degrees. 

 

Based on my experience with myself and others a persons swing can change significantly day in and day out.

[chipa]

2 hours ago, Cwing said:

Golfers whom score 90+ may very well have a repeating swing path. Their swing simply has a big error and is full of compensations and they cannot repeatedly time the swing. As a result, it can be left / right, thin / fat. Nonetheless, their swing path may in fact, be very consistent.

 

That stated, money would be better spent on lessons but ONLY if the golfer has the time and desire to put in the work.

 

Otherwise, lessons can be a complete waste of time and money. Nearly all of those I know that get/received instruction are no better and sometimes worse after said instruction and it was’t because the instructor was poor. Most simply don’t have the time or don’t put in the effort.

 

I think clubfitting is good for some golfers but not most, especially for those who have no idea where the ball is going half the time. My swing has been like that. 

 

As far as lessons, some pros methods and personalities don't match up so even if the student puts in his time there are no real results. This happened to my brother and others here on the forum have mentioned this as well. I don't think there are that many coaches(in spite of what many may say) that really understand the golf swing enough to start with someone with little ability and teach them to swing the club powerfully within their limitations and hit it straight. 

[MPAndreassi]

3 hours ago, chipa said:

 

Based on my experience with myself and others a persons swing can change significantly day in and day out.

As someone mentioned above I believe the changes you see day to day, or shot to shot in some cases, is a change in timing. A change in timing could be as simple as nerves from having to hit over water, having a beer from the cart girl or hitting a good shot and adding pressure to your second because you have to hit it close from there.
 

Pair the above with a slight change in setup, grip/posture/ball position, and someone could have completely opposite ball flights with the same, repeatable swing. 
 

Proper length and flex clubs, part of a fitting, will benefit every single golfer. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by MPAndreassi

[ChipStrokes]

8 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

2) sneakers for golf

a) the athletic styled low profile no spikes footwear sells for $100 or more per pair yet does not provide good support for walking and, or, swinging a golf club. The cement construction sneaker style footwear is disposable so it's a good business for the producers.

i’d argue that spiked shoes are the biggest scam in golf footwear. 

 

you can play just as well in sneakers or even flip flops as you can in golf spikes 

[jdl]

Even if you're apparently too dumb to understand strokes gained, not sure I've ever seen it used to market clubs.

[Buzzkill]

Current scams:

 

Price of irons

Price of woods

Price of grips

[ChipNRun]

28 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

i’d argue that spiked shoes are the biggest scam in golf footwear. 

 

you can play just as well in sneakers or even flip flops as you can in golf spikes 

 

Depends on the course you play on, and how wet things are.

 

I played in running shoes on our course one time. My tee shot on a par 3 ended up halfway up a sloped bank. I ended taking an unplayable lie because I kept falling backward into the bunker as I tried to address the ball.

 

Had a friend slip, fall and sprain his elbow trying to hit uphill shot off a fairway. Running shoes on his feet.

 

One tidbit: Cross training shoes work much better than running shoes; cross training shoes have much better lateral support, and not just for hitting shots.

 

Case in point. I caddied in a minitour event and wore running shoes the first day. While trying to hop a creek, stepped sideways on a rock and it ripped the inner sole lining in half. Had a blister on sole of right foot at end of day. Next day I work crosstraining shoes, and had much better foot and ankle support. 

[RCGA]

• Courses in bad shape but charging full price 
• Bucket of range balls but 25% are split, have the dimples worn off or just generally aren't worth hitting
• Golf simulators with vanity stats and unrealistic dispersion 
• $100+ headcovers

[Mcgeeno]

I actually kinda agree about the fitting point. 

 

Might be a TL:DR but here is my fitting horror story.

 

Book my first one ever, wife approved a full new bag. I rush home from work, get changed and show up at the course expecting a launch monitor setup and the full meal deal.

 

The dude does a wrist to floor measurement, sticks a lie board on the turf and has me hit a bunch of different 7 irons. My swing wasnt feeling good and I was just off. Everyone has those days. 

 

Anyways I get fitted for a set of irons and I hated them from the first round. 

 

Now, as a 1 handicap I have a pro who gives me lessons, I know the shafts and flights I prefer. I know my game more than anyone else who could spend an hour watching me hit balls at a range. 

 

I build my own bag with my main preferences and it hasnt failed me since that wasted night that cost me a couple grand. 

[PostandGhost]

Biggest scam in golf is the Hammer driver... there, I said it.  

[Loki]

10 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

1) getting fit for clubs is a must

a) 90% of the world's golfers shoot 90 or worse. If this population wants to play better shots and improve their scoring the "must do " is technique learning and practice, not getting fit for clubs. But OEM's want to sell clubs and telling people they need to "get fit" helps sell clubs.

Actually, YOUR mindset is the biggest scam in golf.

 

Don't bother posting again.