PING G430 - Are They Finally Going Back to a Carbon Fiber Crown?

[SylvesterLundgren]

3 hours ago, Str8Putt said:

Not sure why you removed your quote to me earlier  but I can take a guess.

 

Boy oh boy talk about a self righteous post just because someone doesn't like the way something looks

No never played those clubs you mentioned and my putter isn't dinged up either. I take care of my equipment and I've been playing for years. 

Guess since we're just throwing things out there, those turbulators looks like something you'd see on a infomercial driver..😏

It’s cause I’d rather see you get that money and hit the way you see yourself hitting. if it so happens to be a ping driver w turbulators then hit it! 
probably ackin to the speed coating sandpaper adams put on the fast series shafts lol

Edited July 17, 2021 by SylvesterLundgren

[BubbaBallesteros]

 

25 minutes ago, braincramp52 said:

The turbulators annoyed me when I bought my Ping G30, for about 3 holes. They never stopped me from playing all the Ping drivers since. 

Yeah same. They aren't the cleanest looking but if they give me a few extra miles an hour club head speed, I could care less. 

[jaffabell88]

21 minutes ago, BubbaBallesteros said:

 

Yeah same. They aren't the cleanest looking but if they give me a few extra miles an hour club head speed, I could care less. 

They don't make any difference, people have tested hitting drivers with stuff glued on to the head, made zero difference. It's all marketing and identity, a unique selling point at best.

[BubbaBallesteros]

32 minutes ago, jaffabell88 said:

They don't make any difference, people have tested hitting drivers with stuff glued on to the head, made zero difference. It's all marketing and identity, a unique selling point at best.

They made a difference to my club head speed when I tested it. Gained 2.5mph compared to my old TS3, which was 6g lighter that my G410.

 

The faster you swing the more of a difference it will make since drag force is proportional to velocity squared. Turbulators (vortex generators) aren't just a PING thing, they're a commonly used and we'll understood aerodynamic device that helps delay flow seperation in the boundry layer, thus decreasing drag. Sorry for the terms but that's my aerospace engineer side speaking haha

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by BubbaBallesteros

[SylvesterLundgren]

28 minutes ago, BubbaBallesteros said:

They made a difference to my club head speed when I tested it. Gained 2.5mph compared to my old TS3, which was 6g lighter that my G410.

 

The faster you swing the more of a difference it will make since drag force is proportional to velocity squared. Turbulators (vortex generators) aren't just a PING thing, they're a commonly used and we'll understood aerodynamic device that helps delay flow seperation in the boundry layer, thus decreasing drag. Sorry for the terms but that's my aerospace engineer side speaking haha

 

 Thanks for the insight.  That’s cool that there is application for gain. 

[animalgolfs]

31 minutes ago, BubbaBallesteros said:

They made a difference to my club head speed when I tested it. Gained 2.5mph compared to my old TS3, which was 6g lighter that my G410.

 

The faster you swing the more of a difference it will make since drag force is proportional to velocity squared. Turbulators (vortex generators) aren't just a PING thing, they're a commonly used and we'll understood aerodynamic device that helps delay flow seperation in the boundry layer, thus decreasing drag. Sorry for the terms but that's my aerospace engineer side speaking haha

 

Proper rebuttal 🤟

[RainShadow]

On 7/12/2021 at 9:02 AM, Jersey golfer said:

You must be referring to my old Cleveland HiBore XLS. When I used it there was no reason to yell fore as everyone within four fairways could hear it.

 I lost some of my hearing hitting one of those in a covered bay. Seriously.

 

[RainShadow]

23 hours ago, Morry said:

425 is just too heavy for most Ams (myself included) and most are not getting the clubhead speed they should 

plus the sound is just a bit too much 

 

stuck in my 410 plus until they launch a new one 

fingers crossed

 

 

 

 My 425 LST swingweight is D5, but it works well for this lower speed amatuer. I like that I can feel the head through the entire swing.

 

[jaffabell88]

46 minutes ago, BubbaBallesteros said:

They made a difference to my club head speed when I tested it. Gained 2.5mph compared to my old TS3, which was 6g lighter that my G410.

 

The faster you swing the more of a difference it will make since drag force is proportional to velocity squared. Turbulators (vortex generators) aren't just a PING thing, they're a commonly used and we'll understood aerodynamic device that helps delay flow seperation in the boundry layer, thus decreasing drag. Sorry for the terms but that's my aerospace engineer side speaking haha

 

Nice technical jargon but at the same time, nonsense. Glad you got a gain, but you didn't get 2.5mph gains from those lumps on the top of the crown, not a chance. If they actually worked all manufacturers would have them?! they are far too small and insignificant to make any difference, it's all marketing. the fact that the clubheads were different weights shows instantly its not really a true comparison. The head works for you though and that's all that matters! lumps on the top or not!

[jaffabell88]

Just to add as much as I am a gear nerd i'm also a realist, we all know a lot of the modern visible tech claims have been debunked

[BubbaBallesteros]

42 minutes ago, jaffabell88 said:

Nice technical jargon but at the same time, nonsense. Glad you got a gain, but you didn't get 2.5mph gains from those lumps on the top of the crown, not a chance. If they actually worked all manufacturers would have them?! they are far too small and insignificant to make any difference, it's all marketing. the fact that the clubheads were different weights shows instantly its not really a true comparison. The head works for you though and that's all that matters! lumps on the top or not!

The height of the turbulators are based on how thick the boundry layer is on the club head. If they are too large then the vortices generated by the turbulators won't even interact with the boundry layer and will have no effect. I'm sure PING went through many design iterations and CFD simulations to optimize their heights. 

 

You can obviously swing a lighter club head faster, hence why I mention the PING was heavier and still I gained club head speed. Shafts were identical as well (Aldila Tour Green 65 TX 45.25").

 

One will only refer to terms as "jargon" when they don't understand them...

Edited July 17, 2021 by BubbaBallesteros

[Str8Putt]

2 hours ago, SylvesterLundgren said:

It’s cause I’d rather see you get that money and hit the way you see yourself hitting. if it so happens to be a ping driver w turbulators then hit it! 
probably ackin to the speed coating sandpaper adams put on the fast series shafts lol

That's fine and agree if something works for then you should use it no matter what but as I said I don't like the look and golf is as mental as it is physical. 

I'm not hurting for distance. I just want something new. I decided this year I'm buying all new equipment from top to bottom. My current driver is a Titleist 910D and I can still put it out there, irons are some Wilson FG53's because I gave my son my MP14's. I'm going to get the MP22 MB's whenever they get released.

Heck I have probably one of the most hated drivers in golf and loved it, it was a fairway finder. The Nike SQ. 😆

[jaffabell88]

17 minutes ago, BubbaBallesteros said:

The height of the turbulators are based on how thick the boundry layer is on the club head. If they are too large then the vortices generated by the turbulators won't even interact with the boundry layer and will have no effect. I'm sure PING went through many design iterations and CFD simulations to optimize their heights. 

 

You can obviously swing a lighter club head faster, hence why I mention the PING was heavier and still I gained club head speed. Shafts were identical as well (Aldila Tour Green 65 TX 45.25").

 

One will only refer to terms as "jargon" when they don't understand them...

That's all good mate but again, if it really made a difference they would all do it. And again tests have been done where people have stuck things on to a clubhead and it made zero difference (to basically debunk the turbulator claims). You gained between 2 different heads but you have bought into the marketing if you believe its due to those lumps.

 

It's a bit like that thing sticking out the back of the SIM, made no difference to clubhead speeds on any test I have seen.

 

Str8Putt made an important observation above - golf is as much mental as it is physical. If you like the look and feel of a particular head it can increase confidence massively, can gain artificially just by that. I'll never be convinced no matter how many engineering terms are thrown at me 🙂

[BubbaBallesteros]

18 minutes ago, jaffabell88 said:

That's all good mate but again, if it really made a difference they would all do it. And again tests have been done where people have stuck things on to a clubhead and it made zero difference (to basically debunk the turbulator claims). You gained between 2 different heads but you have bought into the marketing if you believe its due to those lumps.

 

It's a bit like that thing sticking out the back of the SIM, made no difference to clubhead speeds on any test I have seen.

 

Str8Putt made an important observation above - golf is as much mental as it is physical. If you like the look and feel of a particular head it can increase confidence massively, can gain artificially just by that. I'll never be convinced no matter how many engineering terms are thrown at me 🙂

If you just stick things on a club that are not optimized to interact with the boundry layer, no they will make no difference.

 

You called me out for the my head weight differences not being a true comparison (which you didn't realize was actually a negative against the PING) but then you believe that people sticking things to top of a golf club is a true test to debunk a carefully optimizes aerodynamic devices.

 

Do you have any references to these tests, so I could have a look? I'm very curious to what the results were and how they went about debunking. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by BubbaBallesteros

[Poolparty]

5 hours ago, jaffabell88 said:

That's all good mate but again, if it really made a difference they would all do it.

Unless they read posts from here. Then none of them would do it

[Ghostwedge]

Perception vs reality.....

Ill go with the aerospace engineer guys on the turbulators.

They at least frame the ball nicely before I send  it off into the skyline and it hits another fairway. Thank you Ping.

Can't diss guys for hating on the turbs, I can stand Callaway drivers.

The guy who said TM driver bottom was a joke ? Its called a "keel" the shape distributes weight which is needed because of all the carbon fiber used on the perimeter.

[SylvesterLundgren]

5 hours ago, Str8Putt said:

That's fine and agree if something works for then you should use it no matter what but as I said I don't like the look and golf is as mental as it is physical. 

I'm not hurting for distance. I just want something new. I decided this year I'm buying all new equipment from top to bottom. My current driver is a Titleist 910D and I can still put it out there, irons are some Wilson FG53's because I gave my son my MP14's. I'm going to get the MP22 MB's whenever they get released.

Heck I have probably one of the most hated drivers in golf and loved it, it was a fairway finder. The Nike SQ. 😆

My brother still has his 910 D2 and was sending some. But I need to get me some fitted irons too. I feel that lol 💪🏻

[SylvesterLundgren]

6 hours ago, jaffabell88 said:

That's all good mate but again, if it really made a difference they would all do it. And again tests have been done where people have stuck things on to a clubhead and it made zero difference (to basically debunk the turbulator claims). You gained between 2 different heads but you have bought into the marketing if you believe its due to those lumps.

 

It's a bit like that thing sticking out the back of the SIM, made no difference to clubhead speeds on any test I have seen.

 

Str8Putt made an important observation above - golf is as much mental as it is physical. If you like the look and feel of a particular head it can increase confidence massively, can gain artificially just by that. I'll never be convinced no matter how many engineering terms are thrown at me 🙂

Lol you seen him share the physic based observation and you’re trying to share some bs Facebook youtube heresay.
Dang we get it, you’re hard headed and should be playing persimmon woods but yet here you are probably playing some modern clubs mr. Engineering terms clearly theres stuff you do believe in. 
ole “I’m a gear nerd” yeah a casual one at that. Can’t be shaming a engineer but yet you like to admire club designs? 
Even I went back and had to check myself after my bitterness but you’re really acting like you’re debating a marketing guy or something like FOH 😂😂😂

Edited July 17, 2021 by SylvesterLundgren

[SwingMan]

On 7/12/2021 at 9:36 AM, hammergolf said:

From what I took way in discusions with their engineers is that there is no structural or MOI advantage to a carbon crown. Of course Ping have always focused on performance first and foremost, so I don't think sound is part of the process of design. However, that being said, they obviously understand that sound is important to customers so they are now adding hotmelt as an option.   

 

This is my thought as one who has read too much marketing materials over the years.

 

Saving weight and lowering COG and moving it back is not an advantage?

 

 

[braincramp52]

8 hours ago, BubbaBallesteros said:

If you just stick things on a club that are not optimized to interact with the boundry layer, no they will make no difference.

 

You called me out for the my head weight differences not being a true comparison (which you didn't realize was actually a negative against the PING) but then you believe that people sticking things to top of a golf club is a true test to debunk a carefully optimizes aerodynamic devices.

 

Do you have any references to these tests, so I could have a look? I'm very curious to what the results were and how they went about debunking. 

I'm gonna guess his statistics should be coming anytime now. 😁

[animalgolfs]

29 minutes ago, braincramp52 said:

I'm gonna guess his statistics should be coming anytime now. 😁

[hammergolf]

3 hours ago, SwingMan said:

 

This is my thought as one who has read too much marketing materials over the years.

 

Saving weight and lowering COG and moving it back is not an advantage?

 

 

Ping engineers told me their titanium crown is actually lighter and stronger than a carbon insert is, and there is absolutely no performance benefits to switching to carbon crown.  I’m not an engineer, but they are certainly credible in my book. 

[SubaruWRX]

12 hours ago, BubbaBallesteros said:

You can obviously swing a lighter club head faster, hence why I mention the PING was heavier and still I gained club head speed.

To what extent? I can swing a heavier head faster that matches my technique.
 
Ever tried to swing a pulled shaft? Super light and really difficult to swing fast with a normal swing using both hands. Pull your driver head off and swing that lightweight adapter as fast as you can. 🙂

[Jack Chow]

Am I the only one that like the turbulators and the loud Ping sound?

 

 

Also if Ping gave me one more turbulator I swear I’d hit the fairway everytime

[animalgolfs]

19 minutes ago, Jack Chow said:

Am I the only one that like the turbulators and the loud Ping sound?

 

 

Also if Ping gave me one more turbulator I swear I’d hit the fairway everytime

There is no such thing as "enough turbolaters" - 

 

[Morry]

20 hours ago, RainShadow said:

 My 425 LST swingweight is D5, but it works well for this lower speed amatuer. I like that I can feel the head through the entire swing.

 

Every test and review the 425 has slower clubbed speed and results head to head 

case closed

 

 

[BubbaBallesteros]

7 hours ago, animalgolfs said:

 

 

8 hours ago, SubaruWRX said:

To what extent? I can swing a heavier head faster that matches my technique.
 
Ever tried to swing a pulled shaft? Super light and really difficult to swing fast with a normal swing using both hands. Pull your driver head off and swing that lightweight adapter as fast as you can. 🙂

I was talking 6g difference and not 205g. I do know what you mean though, I wonder what the extent you can.

 

Here's a table of some data regarding clubs head weight vs. club head speed.  https://probablegolfinstruction.com/PGI Newsletter/news02-12-04.htm

 

It clearly shows that club head speed goes up when head weight goes down. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by BubbaBallesteros

[Knock0221]

I am a big Ping fan. I still game a G series driver with a Mitsubishi Diamana shaft. Until Ping loses the 425 “turbulators” I’ll never buy another Ping driver. They make Ping’s current driver the ugliest in golf.

[SubaruWRX]

4 hours ago, BubbaBallesteros said:

 

I was talking 6g difference and not 205g. I do know what you mean though, I wonder what the extent you can.

 

Here's a table of some data regarding clubs head weight vs. club head speed.  https://probablegolfinstruction.com/PGI Newsletter/news02-12-04.htm

 

It clearly shows that club head speed goes up when head weight goes down. 

Also, with Ping’s slightly heavier head, we’re you using their stock Alta CB shaft? 
 
Another thing to consider is Driver length. Your Titleist may be shorter than your counterbalance shafted Ping. OEM lengths, I think the Ping is longer. 

[BubbaBallesteros]

40 minutes ago, SubaruWRX said:

Also, with Ping’s slightly heavier head, we’re you using their stock Alta CB shaft? 
 
Another thing to consider is Driver length. Your Titleist may be shorter than your counterbalance shafted Ping. OEM lengths, I think the Ping is longer. 

Nope both shafts are Aldila Tour Green 65 TX at 45.25".