PING G430 - Are They Finally Going Back to a Carbon Fiber Crown?

[Red4282]

8 hours ago, BubbaBallesteros said:

 

I was talking 6g difference and not 205g. I do know what you mean though, I wonder what the extent you can.

 

Here's a table of some data regarding clubs head weight vs. club head speed.  https://probablegolfinstruction.com/PGI Newsletter/news02-12-04.htm

 

It clearly shows that club head speed goes up when head weight goes down. 

Sorry, but weight differences, like 6 grams has no correlation to speed differences. Fact is some swing a heavier setup faster and some swing a lighter setup faster. Theres been studies that suggest a heavier club engages the core muscles more, creating more power. 
 

And turbulators make ZERO difference in club head speed. 

 

[BubbaBallesteros]

3 hours ago, Red4282 said:

Sorry, but weight differences, like 6 grams has no correlation to speed differences. Fact is some swing a heavier setup faster and some swing a lighter setup faster. Theres been studies that suggest a heavier club engages the core muscles more, creating more power. 
 

And turbulators make ZERO difference in club head speed. 

 

I hear what your saying, but the article I post shows data from a test that shows a correlation between club head speed and weight. Even Ian from TXG had trouble reaching the swing speeds he did in the SIM2 (116mph)with the heavier G425 LST (112mph) with the the same shaft. However, I agree that there are many variables that relate to the biomechanics of the swing.

 

Let's get this thread back on topic. However I would like to see the other guys article that debunks turbulators. If you don't have hard imperical evidence/data, you can't really form an argument. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by BubbaBallesteros

[Red4282]

2 hours ago, BubbaBallesteros said:

I hear what your saying, but the article I post shows data from a test that shows a correlation between club head speed and weight. Even Ian from TXG had trouble reaching the swing speeds he did in the SIM2 (116mph)with the heavier G425 LST (112mph) with the the same shaft. However, I agree that there are many variables that relate to the biomechanics of the swing.

 

Let's get this thread back on topic. However I would like to see the other guys article that debunks turbulators. If you don't have hard imperical evidence/data, you can't really form an argument. 

First, what i would say is there no MEASURABLE gain. 2 mph is asinine to think turbulators gave you that. MAYBE, fractions of fractions of a mph which doesnt equate to anything anyone can measure or see, not to mention the variances in speed from swing to swing because we are human, and cant swing the same way everytime. It would require a gigantic data set to prove and frankly no one has the time to debunk that. Thats the beauty in golf club engineering/marketing. Making claims thats incredibly difficult to prove/disprove is where its at. Second from a physics perspective, the golf club isnt moving in a linear fashion. From like p5/p6, where the club is traveling at its fastest speeds. the heel of the club is actually leading the brunt of the aerodynamic drag. By the time the face squares up between p6 and impact, the clubhead is actually slowing down. From this perspective the SIMS wonky crooked bar makes more sense. If you really want to reduce drag for extra speed, you would need a smaller footprint, smaller cc heads. 
 

The “golf club engineer” cracks me up. Cut open a driver and see how simplistic they really are. Metal and or carbon welded/glued together. Make sure you have a good hot face is number 1, and the small amounts of cog movement with weighting can make some small measurable differences. Thats really it. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Red4282

[BubbaBallesteros]

6 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

First, what i would say is there no MEASURABLE gain. 2 mph is asinine to think turbulators gave you that. MAYBE, fractions of fractions of a mph which doesnt equate to anything anyone can measure or see, not to mention the variances in speed from swing to swing because we are human, and cant swing the same way everytime. It would require a gigantic data set to prove and frankly no one has the time to debunk that. Thats the beauty in golf club engineering/marketing. Making claims thats incredibly difficult to prove/disprove is where its at. Second from a physics perspective, the golf club isnt moving in a linear fashion. From like p5/p6, where the club is traveling at its fastest speeds. the heel of the club is actually leading the brunt of the aerodynamic drag. By the time the face squares up between p6 and impact, the clubhead is actually slowing down. From this perspective the SIMS wonky crooked bar makes more sense. If you really want to reduce drag for extra speed, you would need a smaller footprint, smaller cc heads. 
 

The “golf club engineer” cracks me up. Cut open a driver and see how simplistic they really are. Metal and or carbon welded/glued together. Make sure you have a good hot face is number 1, and the small amounts of cog movement with weighting can make some small measurable differences. Thats really it. 

You can say it doest work if you haven't tested it or can cite something that shows data to support it. I also can't say for certainly that they work as well because I don't have the number of data point to make a true case.

 

All I know is that from studying and working in aerodynamics for the last 9 years, that turbulators or vortex generators are a pretty well known and understood aerodynamic device that's does help flows stay attached to surfaces long, thus decreasing the amount of drag on the object. 

 

Let's just leave it at that. 

[Red4282]

8 hours ago, BubbaBallesteros said:

You can say it doest work if you haven't tested it or can cite something that shows data to support it. I also can't say for certainly that they work as well because I don't have the number of data point to make a true case.

 

All I know is that from studying and working in aerodynamics for the last 9 years, that turbulators or vortex generators are a pretty well known and understood aerodynamic device that's does help flows stay attached to surfaces long, thus decreasing the amount of drag on the object. 

 

Let's just leave it at that. 

 No arguments there that they do work but its only useful on objects that travel in a linear fashion, which a golf club is not.

[uglande]

Ping has admitted that they make no meaningful difference — they pulled them off the hybrids and fairways — even if they “work” in the most technical sense. 
 

Some people like the look of turbulators and others don’t. But it would be foolish to pick a Ping driver over others because of the turbulators’ effect on speed. There is no way they increase club head speed by anything more than tiny fractions of 1 mph. 

[uglande]

I agree the 410 was better than 425. About to sell my 425 after switching to Mizuno. The 425 is one of the most disappointing driver purchases I can remember, and I buy new every year and test just about everything. 
 

It just feels like garbage. But I generally respect Ping as a company and would love for them to embrace carbon. They’ve mastered forgiveness but just need to fix their sound/feel game. And bury the turbulators. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by uglande

[erock9174]

Still one of my favs when it comes to Turbulators

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRRZopcQW24

Edited July 19, 2021 by erock9174

[animalgolfs]

4 minutes ago, erock9174 said:

Still one of my favs when it comes to Turbulators

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRRZopcQW24

How I haven't seen this.......

[Morry]

1 hour ago, uglande said:

I agree the 410 was better than 425. About to sell my 425 after switching to Mizuno. The 425 is one of the most disappointing driver purchases I can remember, and I buy new every year and test just about everything. 
 

It just feels like garbage. But I generally respect Ping as a company and would love for them to embrace carbon. They’ve mastered forgiveness but just need to fix their sound/feel game. And bury the turbulators. 

Perfectly said and I 100% concur

 

Ready to embrace the next one and dive in once they address those issues 

 

 

[timmy8151]

1 hour ago, Morry said:

Perfectly said and I 100% concur

 

Ready to embrace the next one and dive in once they address those issues 

 

 

Same here.  I’ve posted this in another thread but the 425 max has been the most accurate driver I’ve used but am not seeing the distance from previous drivers.  I’ve ordered a 23 and 20 gram weight and hopefully the lighter weight will bring up the speed

[ckguy914]

4 hours ago, uglande said:

Ping has admitted that they make no meaningful difference — they pulled them off the hybrids and fairways — even if they “work” in the most technical sense. 
 

Some people like the look of turbulators and others don’t. But it would be foolish to pick a Ping driver over others because of the turbulators’ effect on speed. There is no way they increase club head speed by anything more than tiny fractions of 1 mph. 

They make little difference on FW and HY because the speed is not fast enough to be measurable, PING has always admitted it this much.  However they certainly do make measurable differences at DR speed and that's why its still on the DR.

Edited July 19, 2021 by ckguy914

[ckguy914]

5 hours ago, Red4282 said:

 No arguments there that they do work but its only useful on objects that travel in a linear fashion, which a golf club is not.

Orientation and direction is only a matter of what the reference is.  What would you say about golf balls, their aerodynamics design/dimples and their "linear" travel"?

Edited July 19, 2021 by ckguy914

[ASN21]

4 minutes ago, ckguy914 said:

They make little difference on FW and HY because the speed is not fast enough to be measurable, PING has always admitted it this much.  However they certainly do make measurable differences at DR speed and that's why its still on the DR.

I can see why you would believe that from your signature but if you have seen any testing videos on Youtube by TXG and others you will notice it makes no discernible difference. Keep on drinking the cool aid tho.

[timbo08]

I don't overly dislike the look of the turbulators but I wouldn't be mad if they ditched them either.  I can pretty much play anything as long as I can get it to see properly at address for alignment purposes or rather should I say, looks wouldn't turn me off from something if it performed. 

 

With all that being said, and while I do currently game a G400 Max, I don't know how they do make a difference.  I am not an aerodynamics expert at all, just some guilty knowledge from engineering school way back in the day.  I can certainly see how in a wind tunnel type setting, face on, then yes, they would reduce drag.  However, I can't see how or understand how they can reduce drag and increase swing speed across so many golfers delivering the club in so many different ways?  I mean for a lot of guys at some point wouldn't the turbulators essentially be turned almost perpendicular to the target during your down swing and thus potentially in crease drag?  And if so, is the decrease in drag just before impact enough to offset that?  And ultimately is any of it enough to truly make a "measurable" difference?  I'm not the guy to make that call but it seems to me there is A LOT of variables across all abilities to strap something on top of the club that's off putting to some and to think that it works for everyone or the even the majority of folks that would buy that club?  

[Red4282]

3 hours ago, ckguy914 said:

Orientation and direction is only a matter of what the reference is.  What would you say about golf balls, their aerodynamics design/dimples and their "linear" travel"?

A golf ball is different because its a sphere, so no matter the orientation the aerodynamics are the same.

[Strategery]

Longtime Ping player here. I was psyched waiting to try the G425 driver. Total letdown.

LOL, now watching the "Carbon Fiber Crown" thread. Can Ping redeem themselves?

[animalgolfs]

This thread is headed to crazy town 😳

Mens room is 3rd door on left- Ladies 2nd right

 

Half of the people that hate the G425, must be all posting in here. I don't think they hate the club - I think they hate the results- how can something this loud & this damn ugly- produce these fantastic results........just think it kills their psyche 

 

Some are even mad- it's a terrific driver

Edited July 20, 2021 by animalgolfs

[Morry]

4 hours ago, Strategery said:

Longtime Ping player here. I was psyched waiting to try the G425 driver. Total letdown.

LOL, now watching the "Carbon Fiber Crown" thread. Can Ping redeem themselves?

Thank you 

again, this is simply the Truth 

425 was a bust for the Ping faithful 

Redemption awaits!

 

[Morry]

5 minutes ago, animalgolfs said:

This thread is headed to crazy town 😳

Mens room is 3rd door on left- Ladies 2nd right

 

Half of the people that hate the G425, must be all posting in here. I don't think they hate the club - I think they hate the results- how can something this loud & this damn ugly- produce these fantastic results........just think it kills their psyche 

 

Some are even mad- it's a terrific driver

It's slow and clanky sounding and yes, the results suck 

back to the 410 till they fix their misstep 

 

we are posting cause we are desperate for Ping to fix this

you should head to the 425 thread and tell everyone how great it is!

 

thanks

 

 

[Knock0221]

On 7/18/2021 at 12:37 AM, Jack Chow said:

Am I the only one that like the turbulators and the loud Ping sound?

 

 

Also if Ping gave me one more turbulator I swear I’d hit the fairway everytime

I don’t know if the turbulators do anything or not. But they make almost the ugliest driver head I’ve seen. The Ping G5 driver had a big, beautiful, pear shaped black head and it was plenty forgiving when fitted with the right shaft.

[awolmartinez]

On 7/19/2021 at 6:10 AM, erock9174 said:

Still one of my favs when it comes to Turbulators

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRRZopcQW24

That's fun, but this is hands down the best video anyone has ever made in reference to driver aero, and more specifically the turbulators.  Which for the record, I love the look, and love my G425 (also my first Ping driver) whether they work or not is a different story 😉. But I ALWAYS err on the side of comedy!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djLvoDdsTXM

Edited July 20, 2021 by awolmartinez

[bopper53]

I don't get the hate for the G425, I love my G425 LST and I just paired it with a GD ADI6 shaft,  more forgiving that my 410 and longer.

 

I don't give a rats a** about launch monitors, I live on a course and I know where I usually hit it on a particular hole. I measured where I hit my G425 against my 410 and my Cally LS with the MMT shaft and the G425 was past them by 10 yards. ( All were 10.5 loft )

 

I have played every ping driver the last 30 years.

 

The G425 is long for me and ridiculously forgiving.

 

The longest guy on the European Tour hits Ping and he can blow it by Byrson.

[ShortSticks]

1 hour ago, bopper53 said:

I don't get the hate for the G425, I love my G425 LST and I just paired it with a GD ADI6 shaft,  more forgiving that my 410 and longer.

 

I don't give a rats a** about launch monitors, I live on a course and I know where I usually hit it on a particular hole. I measured where I hit my G425 against my 410 and my Cally LS with the MMT shaft and the G425 was past them by 10 yards. ( All were 10.5 loft )

 

I have played every ping driver the last 30 years.

 

The G425 is long for me and ridiculously forgiving.

 

The longest guy on the European Tour hits Ping and he can blow it by Byrson.

I don't get the hate either. I Love my G425 MAX, its the best driver I have ever had. 

 

I had to change the weight from the stock 26 gram to a 23 gram and change the stock shaft from the 45.25" TENSEI Orange 65s to a 45" VENTUS Red 6s to get mine dialed in, but don't we all do that with every driver we get. I am KILLING this thing longer and straighter than anything I have tried. The sound doesn't bother me at all and turbulators frame the ball at address beautifully to me. I just don't get it.

 

I would be suprised if they went carbon with the G430, but then I don't know what else they can do to improve on the G425.

[uglande]

On 7/19/2021 at 11:48 AM, ckguy914 said:

They make little difference on FW and HY because the speed is not fast enough to be measurable, PING has always admitted it this much.  However they certainly do make measurable differences at DR speed and that's why its still on the DR.

Yes, this is what Ping says. I don't buy it. 

 

Does it make sense to you (using average PGA swing speeds) that turbulators have zero effect on a club traveling at 108 mph but they make a measurable and meaningful difference on a club traveling 112 mph?

 

If they made a difference, other manufacturers would have done something similar with their crowns. I would also bet that turbulators will be gone from Ping's 2022 drivers. And they will explain it away by saying that they found a different way to make the club heads more aerodynamic, so turbulators were no longer necessary. 

[NNJ111]

I wanted to like the g425 Bc it looked mean. It just looked like it was going to be fast.

 

It was slower for me than the TSi3, but it still wasn’t super slow. For me it suffered because (a) it was slower than the g410, and (b) it was so so so much slower than it looked like it should have been, which created issues mentally

[SubaruWRX]

Didn’t Callaway drop their version of turbulators? Weren’t they called “steep steps” that also claimed club head speed through improved aerodynamics? Now some of their drivers have a “cyclone aero shape”.😆

[timbo08]

39 minutes ago, SubaruWRX said:

Didn’t Callaway drop their version of turbulators? Weren’t they called “steep steps” that also claimed club head speed through improved aerodynamics? Now some of their drivers have a “cyclone aero shape”.😆

Good point, pretty sure Cobra had something similar in a recent release along with two turbulator shapes that stretched to the back of the club as well?  

[Ghostwedge]

8 hours ago, uglande said:

Yes, this is what Ping says. I don't buy it. 

 

Does it make sense to you (using average PGA swing speeds) that turbulators have zero effect on a club traveling at 108 mph but they make a measurable and meaningful difference on a club traveling 112 mph?

 

If they made a difference, other manufacturers would have done something similar with their crowns. I would also bet that turbulators will be gone from Ping's 2022 drivers. And they will explain it away by saying that they found a different way to make the club heads more aerodynamic, so turbulators were no longer necessary. 

So don'tbe a stranger if the turbulators stick around.....

Man they frame the ball nice.

[Morry]

touch too much draw bias as well on 425 

 

drop the weight a touch 

back to neutral bias 

adjust sound 

 

and you have the #1 Driver in golf on all metrics