Internal out of bounds at my course

[Mr. Bean]

5 hours ago, naval2006 said:

The 4th hole is a short par 4 (around 290 yds) with OB on the left (property limits), a tree in the middle of the fairway at the 100 yd mark

 

So the fairway is narrow, fair enough. But the required yardage for the opening shot is 190 yards, maybe less to avoid the tree. Most people do not even need a driver for that. A mildly challenging hole? Yes, I agree. A tough hole? Not likely if one uses some common sense in choosing the strategy. An interesting hole? Deifinitively.

[Mr. Bean]

Here's a hole with oaks. The top one, 399 meters from men's club tee. And those oaks are preserved, just have to live with them.

[Krt22]

2 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I'd have to agree. That tree is not in play with a decent drive, does not even have to be a long one.

 

It is good to remember that not every golfer is meant to hit their 2nd stroke onto the green on a par4. So a bogey player might start with a mid iron, hit 2nd over the tree into 30-50 yds and chip 3rd onto the green. No problem.

If they are playing the right tees, every golfer should be able to hit their 2nd stroke onto the green, assuming they were not in trouble off the tee. Intentionally having to play for bogey on short hole because of a dumb tree, well, is dumb

[Mr. Bean]

40 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

If they are playing the right tees, every golfer should be able to hit their 2nd stroke onto the green, assuming they were not in trouble off the tee. Intentionally having to play for bogey on short hole because of a dumb tree, well, is dumb

 

You are correct, should be able. But if a golfer is not able to drive their ball to the tree or past it they are not meant to reach the green in two. That is how I see it.

[david.c.w]

Generally seems like a good decision by the committee for the safety of those on hole #3.  With that road adjacent to the fairway, anyone who tends to draw or hook the ball will start it down toward 3 tee.  If the tree in the fairway is an issue, it may be better to remove the other trees closer to 3 tee .  This will give folks an opportunity to hit that 200 yard shot between internal OB and the tree, and then not be penalized with more trees in the way.  A hole with trouble left, right, middle and long is not a good hole.

 

I agree removing the fairway tree is a good idea, but if it a signature of the golf course it may need to stay.

 

Edit:  Is that a green to the left of #3?  This truly is a Hank Jones design.  (#5 Kill box)

Edited July 13, 2021 by david.c.w

[Krt22]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

You are correct, should be able. But if a golfer is not able to drive their ball to the tree or past it they are not meant to reach the green in two. That is how I see it.

And sometimes we just have to accept there are dumb holes in golf. My home course has 1 par three that has a huge oak completely protecting the green and it's so close to the front edge basically even highly skilled players hitting mile high iron shots cannot land a ball on the front of the green, unless you hit a start if over the water to the right of the green and hook it back left. Long left is the normal play. The low ball hitters essentially are playing for bogey or worse a lot of the time

[Mudguard]

Ugh, internal out of bounds are the devils work and result of poor design/evolution. A more elegant solution would be to stick a net or plant trees near the tee that take out the right hand side. 

We have a hole at my home course that is a gentle dog leg left, very long, with OB quite a long way left of the fairway. Absolute bombers can go straight at the green but most play the hole up the dog leg (cutting the corner is 280m over bunkers). OB is still a long way left. However in recent years the OB line has been creeping off the course boundary towards the fairway to protect houses. The thing is, the houses being hit aren't people trying to cut the corner, it's just a rank pull hook. So instead of having about 40m of rough on the left of the fairway to the boundary line, there is about 10m so you can easily bounce OB for just missing the fairway.

 

My least favourite tree.

 

 

[ChipStrokes]

1 hour ago, Krt22 said:

If they are playing the right tees, every golfer should be able to hit their 2nd stroke onto the green

well, now that we know the proper tees for a guy who drives it 235 run out to about 6800…what’s he hitting off the tee here? 😂😂

[Mudguard]

7 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

And sometimes we just have to accept there are dumb holes in golf. My home course has 1 par three that has a huge oak completely protecting the green and it's so close to the front edge basically even highly skilled players hitting mile high iron shots cannot land a ball on the front of the green, unless you hit a start if over the water to the right of the green and hook it back left. Long left is the normal play. The low ball hitters essentially are playing for bogey or worse a lot of the time

Ugh. I think I'd be campaigning to remove it!

In that par five video I posted above I'd discussed long and hard with the committee about removing the middle tree. But no dice. The argument was that it adds to the hole. The problem is, even for those not going for it in two (which I was), there is a really narrow area to hit your third in from, between trees, not too low, not too high.

People say oh it adds character, I say, that's cool, I'm a low handicapper and can hit the ball high, plant trees in front of every bloody green and see how much you like it!

[Quasimoto]

We have trees in the middle of the fairway on 2 holes. 1st is a par 5 and the tree is a 70’ spruce about 320 off the tee where the fairway is about 30 yds wide. So you have to around it on every 2nd shot (or 3rd for some people.

The other tree is actually 2 trees back to back, spruce trees about 70’ high and 100 yds from the tee. Fairway is about 10 yds wide on the right side and 20yds on the left. After playing the hole 300 times I have hit the tree once with a quail high drive. Tough holes, but they are both about 530 yds.

[Krt22]

2 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

well, now that we know the proper tees for a guy who drives it 235 run out to about 6800…what’s he hitting off the tee here? 😂😂

A truly skilled golfer knows how to use the ground. Bunt driver, bunt driver off the deck, 2 putt par!

[Newby]

Why not punch a low loft iron under the lower branches?

 

But the course has probably already been rated with the tree causing a forced lay-up.

[Krt22]

10 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

Ugh. I think I'd be campaigning to remove it!

In that par five video I posted above I'd discussed long and hard with the committee about removing the middle tree. But no dice. The argument was that it adds to the hole. The problem is, even for those not going for it in two (which I was), there is a really narrow area to hit your third in from, between trees, not too low, not too high.

People say oh it adds character, I say, that's cool, I'm a low handicapper and can hit the ball high, plant trees in front of every bloody green and see how much you like it!

Yeah I can hit the high hook so I basically just hit the mid/back of the green every time, I don't bother to even laser the flag anymore. I don't think we can remove it completely since it's a native oak, but it would be nice if they at least trimmed back some of the limbs closest to the green

[david.c.w]

19 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

My least favourite tree.

 

 

I am sorry, that shoulder slump after the flushed tree trunk had me chuckling.

[Mudguard]

4 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

I am sorry, that shoulder slump after the flushed tree trunk had me chuckling.

Yeah I've hit that tree so many times it's not funny. From there it's about a 200m carry (nothing in Golfwrx world) but the only times I've been successful is hitting less club with a low hook so it lands short and runs on. The tree is right at the apex of the flight too.

[Augster]

Isn’t this a 290 hole? 8-iron/8-iron. 
 

Good call by the committee. 

[antip]

16 minutes ago, Augster said:

Isn’t this a 290 hole? 8-iron/8-iron. 
 

Good call by the committee. 

Agree, but what proportion of golfers demonstrate such rationality?

[TheDominator273]

If those two holes aren't the result of the architect running out of land then they were completely incompetent.  That whole corner of the property needs to be reworked, but for the time being, internal OB is the right move by the committee.

 

[TheDominator273]

Double post

Edited July 14, 2021 by TheDominator273

[ArtMBgolf]

It's one thing if wild tee shots go into the other fairway, but when golfers 
aim there on purpose, then that is a reason for internal OB.   
 
If they will stop aiming right, if the tree is removed, do that. 
If they will still aim right to avoid OB, than the new OB is proper.  
 
Also consider making #4 into a par 3, cutting tree down and a new tee at 
whatever yardage makes sense, maybe short to help avoid OB left.     

[llewol007]

Sounds like a lot of players are trying to cut that corner. I would every day if I could as well. What the committee should do is trim that tree down and really thin it out. It doesnt make sense to have nothing but an eye sore in front you with not much of an option. With the Ob in play, I would play it back since you need to be able to get over the tree with no issue. I reminds me of #12 at Stanford where Tigers tree stands in the middle of the fairway leaving you about 220 out in order to have a shot around the tree. Best thing is for that tree to disappear as others have said.  

[Mr. Bean]

21 hours ago, naval2006 said:

The problem with the tree in the middle of the fairway is it's grown too tall now

 

How tall is the tree? What is the distance between the ground and the lowest branches?

 

The satellite picture does not give a very good idea of the actual dimensions of that tree.

[Fairway14]

9 hours ago, antip said:

Agree, but what proportion of golfers demonstrate such rationality?

 

Less than 1%.

[Colin L]

7 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Less than 1%.

Are you normally prone to exaggeration?

[Fairway14]

21 minutes ago, Colin L said:

Are you normally prone to exaggeration?

 

The question was what percentage/proportion of players would play the hole with two consecutive 8-iron shots. I believe 1% and, or, 1 out of 100 players is likely accurate.

[Mr. Bean]

17 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

The question was what percentage/proportion of players would play the hole with two consecutive 8-iron shots. I believe 1% and, or, 1 out of 100 players is likely accurate.

 

I think your leg has been pulled...

[Colin L]

51 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

The question was what percentage/proportion of players would play the hole with two consecutive 8-iron shots. I believe 1% and, or, 1 out of 100 players is likely accurate.

Just a misfired joke. 

[sui generis]

22 minutes ago, Colin L said:

Just a misfired joke. 

 

The Atlantic Ocean is both wide and deep. 😉

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, sui generis said:

 

The Atlantic Ocean is both wide and deep. 😉

 

Isn't it strange? I got Colin's joke immediately but I cannot understand yours, Sui. A culture thing or what?

[sui generis]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Isn't it strange? I got Colin's joke immediately but I cannot understand yours, Sui. A culture thing or what?

 

Colin's was Brit humour which failed to make it across the Atlantic. 🙂