Internal out of bounds at my course

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

7 minutes ago, antip said:

In conventional golf rule terms, it seems these would be red PA NPZs. But are you suggesting some of these wan pena areas can be other holes (than the player's hole) on some courses?

 

Some are, yes, and some are areas between holes.

I've included a hole layout and picture I've taken from a local course.

 

The hole layout is the third hole, and the wan-pena (one penalty shot) areas are marked in yellow. Those same areas are wan-pena when playing the fourth hole, which is adjacent to the third and plays in the opposite direction. Incidentally, the OoB shown on the left is hilariously wrong. Anything into the tree line left is gone!

 

If you hit OoB, you are supposed to go to a special teeing area further down the fairway and play your fourth shot from there, no matter where your ball went out. Teeing it up is allowed, or at least I've seen players tee it up and hit from the special teeing area.

 

The picture is of the first hole at the same course. Left is OoB, and it is proper OoB as it marks the boundary of the course. On the right, you might just be able to see a yellow stake near the tall, single tree. That is a wan-pena area, and lies between the first and last holes of the course. The wooded area further up on the right is also wan-pena.

 

Incidentally, water hazards here are often marked with white stakes to show they are OoB. Not all, but a lot.

 

[antip]

5 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

Some are, yes, and some are areas between holes.

I've included a hole layout and picture I've taken from a local course.

 

The hole layout is the third hole, and the wan-pena (one penalty shot) areas are marked in yellow. Those same areas are wan-pena when playing the fourth hole, which is adjacent to the third and plays in the opposite direction. Incidentally, the OoB shown on the left is hilariously wrong. Anything into the tree line left is gone!

 

If you hit OoB, you are supposed to go to a special teeing area further down the fairway and play your fourth shot from there, no matter where your ball went out. Teeing it up is allowed, or at least I've seen players tee it up and hit from the special teeing area.

 

The picture is of the first hole at the same course. Left is OoB, and it is proper OoB as it marks the boundary of the course. On the right, you might just be able to see a yellow stake near the tall, single tree. That is a wan-pena area, and lies between the first and last holes of the course. The wooded area further up on the right is also wan-pena.

 

Incidentally, water hazards here are often marked with white stakes to show they are OoB. Not all, but a lot.

 

Interesting, thanks. Turning a pond of some description into genuine OOB is rather weird, I've not come across that anywhere else, but then what would we know, we are just henna gaijin.

 

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

1 hour ago, antip said:

Interesting, thanks. Turning a pond of some description into genuine OOB is rather weird, I've not come across that anywhere else, but then what would we know, we are just henna gaijin.

 

 

 

Henna gaijin, indeed. Although, I think some of the special "playing four" tees here are also pretty "hen". There's one course that has a short par 5 (only 470 yards) that's has a lake all the way along the left hand side. The lake is OoB, but the special tee is set about 320 yards down the fairway. Once, my playing partner snap-hooked his driver into the lake about 150 yards off the tee. He goes to the special tee, tees up, sticks a short iron shot near the flag and is looking at a putt for par. 

 

Here's one example of a pond being OoB: 17th hole on the Nanamata course of Fukuoka Kokusai Country Club. 

If you click on the second link, you can see that much of the course is bounded by water. Those lakes are all OoB, but as some of them could be external boundaries, it makes sense. The pond on 17, however, is just drainage pond. Not sure why it has to be OoB; seems unnecessarily penal to me. Oddly, the picture below doesn't show the OoB up the right near the green. Just noticed that. That's internal OoB, but like a jungle. The OoB up the left is internal, and marks the border with the eleventh hole of the Nakayama course.

[antip]

3 hours ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

Henna gaijin, indeed. Although, I think some of the special "playing four" tees here are also pretty "hen". There's one course that has a short par 5 (only 470 yards) that's has a lake all the way along the left hand side. The lake is OoB, but the special tee is set about 320 yards down the fairway. Once, my playing partner snap-hooked his driver into the lake about 150 yards off the tee. He goes to the special tee, tees up, sticks a short iron shot near the flag and is looking at a putt for par. 

 

Here's one example of a pond being OoB: 17th hole on the Nanamata course of Fukuoka Kokusai Country Club. 

If you click on the second link, you can see that much of the course is bounded by water. Those lakes are all OoB, but as some of them could be external boundaries, it makes sense. The pond on 17, however, is just drainage pond. Not sure why it has to be OoB; seems unnecessarily penal to me. Oddly, the picture below doesn't show the OoB up the right near the green. Just noticed that. That's internal OoB, but like a jungle. The OoB up the left is internal, and marks the border with the eleventh hole of the Nakayama course.

Always interesting to see how the game morphs in different parts. I was Tokyo posted for three years in the 90s and played golf precisely once. It was a horrendous experience, 12 hour day door to door. Decent resort style course on the Boso Hanto, 80 odd km from Tokyo but 3 hours to play each nine, 2 hours between nines with the restaurant and bath between. All ludicrously regimented, it was all about creating jobs, little to do with the community sport I grew up with in Australia. Once was enough, although the multiple courses I saw (with hiking boots not golf spikes) further afield from the Kanto plain population pressures looked much more civilised/enjoyable. And Japan certainly knows how to do green.

[Zerp]

On 7/13/2021 at 11:15 PM, naval2006 said:

This week the Committee decided to declare the right side of the 4th hole (adjacent to the 3rd) OB. 

Just one hole? Count your blessings. With the courses here in Japan it is extremely rare to be able to play from ANY adjacent fairway. Furthermore almost every hole is absolutely lined with white OB markers.  But course rules almost always have drop zones for OB tee shots, you don’t play a second ball bc it’s faster to drop and play 4. Thing is those drop areas are very often much farther out than the average, or even above average, player can drive the ball.

[Newby]

46 minutes ago, Zerp said:

Just one hole? Count your blessings. With the courses here in Japan it is extremely rare to be able to play from ANY adjacent fairway. Furthermore almost every hole is absolutely lined with white OB markers.  But course rules almost always have drop zones for OB tee shots, you don’t play a second ball bc it’s faster to drop and play 4. Thing is those drop areas are very often much farther out than the average, or even above average, player can drive the ball.

Drop Zones for OB relief are not permitted under the Rules. However there is a Local Rule which is designed for such a situation.

E-5 Alternative to Stroke and Distance for Lost Ball or Ball Out of Bounds

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=8&subrulenum=5

 

 

[Zerp]

1 hour ago, Newby said:

Drop Zones for OB relief are not permitted under the Rules. However there is a Local Rule which is designed for such a situation.

 

Yeah, well, they employ that special rule on every course I have played here. Unless I’m in a competition I generally ignore them. And I always play a second ball from the tee if the first looks OB. Last Friday I drove through the fairway on a dogleg. I played another ball and left myself with 170 to the pin. The other two  guys, both Japanese, hit their tee shots OB but went to the drop zone, leaving themselves with around 80 yds.

[limegreengent]

"ミッキーマウス"   Golf

[DaveLeeNC]

There is no OB here, but certainly an interesting tree configuration. This is a 325'ish yard par 4 (how hard can that be) and about 250 to 270 yards are two huge sycamores on each side of the fairway. If you look at the picture attached you will see that there is no straight line from behind those trees on the fairway to the green. You have to go over (no way) or under. And if you go under then you have this little drainage creek that you have to deal with. I have not be on the course in probably 15 years, but when I played it often in the 1960's the trees were smaller and there was no drainage creek problem. 

 

I am not sure how I would play it these days. The 3 red dashes are about 220 off the tee. 

 

dave

 

ps. This is Lead Belt Golf Club in Bonne Terre, Mo. It is a nine hole muni. 

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by DaveLeeNC

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, DaveLeeNC said:

There is no OB here, but certainly an interesting tree configuration. This is a 325'ish yard par 4 (how hard can that be) and about 250 to 270 yards are two huge sycamores on each side of the fairway. If you look at the picture attached you will see that there is no straight line from behind those trees on the fairway to the green. You have to go over (no way) or under. And if you go under then you have this little drainage creek that you have to deal with. I have not be on the course in probably 15 years, but when I played it often in the 1960's the trees were smaller and there was no drainage creek problem. 

 

I am not sure how I would play it these days. The 3 red dashes are about 220 off the tee. 

 

dave

 

ps. This is Lead Belt Golf Club in Bonne Terre, Mo. It is a nine hole muni. 

 

 

 

 

 

ミッキーマウス hole

[Zerp]

11 hours ago, Newby said:

Drop Zones for OB relief are not permitted under the Rules. However there is a Local Rule which is designed for such a situation.

E-5 Alternative to Stroke and Distance for Lost Ball or Ball Out of Bounds

These drop zones are on every hole with signs on the tee box stating to use them and play 4.  I pissed off the accountant at a company I worked for when he wanted me to drop and play 4 on a par 3. Nope, hit my next ball on at made double bogey. He was free to score it however he wished, just as he could stick the scorecard wherever he wished after recording the score. It’s done to speed up play. Same thing with almost 100% of the course marked with internal OBs. No time wasted looking for your ball. I played at one course where they put a badge on a player from each group. Kind of a ‘Manner Keeper’. And the main duty was to ensure fast play. Not ‘Avoid slow play’ but PLAY FAST. And you see signs labeled exactly that way. The GPS in the carts will b**** at you if you play any slower than their expected time, regardless of conditions. And the carts follow buried cables at a snail’s pace. Nope, this is a pet peeve of mine.  Hate it and ignore it.

[antip]

4 hours ago, Zerp said:

These drop zones are on every hole with signs on the tee box stating to use them and play 4.  I pissed off the accountant at a company I worked for when he wanted me to drop and play 4 on a par 3. Nope, hit my next ball on at made double bogey. He was free to score it however he wished, just as he could stick the scorecard wherever he wished after recording the score. It’s done to speed up play. Same thing with almost 100% of the course marked with internal OBs. No time wasted looking for your ball. I played at one course where they put a badge on a player from each group. Kind of a ‘Manner Keeper’. And the main duty was to ensure fast play. Not ‘Avoid slow play’ but PLAY FAST. And you see signs labeled exactly that way. The GPS in the carts will b**** at you if you play any slower than their expected time, regardless of conditions. And the carts follow buried cables at a snail’s pace. Nope, this is a pet peeve of mine.  Hate it and ignore it.

Aw, c'mon, anyone might think the facilities are there for the golfer!

Ganbatte.

[Newby]

12 hours ago, Zerp said:

These drop zones are on every hole with signs on the tee box stating to use them and play 4.  I pissed off the accountant at a company I worked for when he wanted me to drop and play 4 on a par 3. Nope, hit my next ball on at made double bogey. He was free to score it however he wished, just as he could stick the scorecard wherever he wished after recording the score. It’s done to speed up play. Same thing with almost 100% of the course marked with internal OBs. No time wasted looking for your ball. I played at one course where they put a badge on a player from each group. Kind of a ‘Manner Keeper’. And the main duty was to ensure fast play. Not ‘Avoid slow play’ but PLAY FAST. And you see signs labeled exactly that way. The GPS in the carts will b**** at you if you play any slower than their expected time, regardless of conditions. And the carts follow buried cables at a snail’s pace. Nope, this is a pet peeve of mine.  Hate it and ignore it.

The Rules of Golf require you to play the course as you find it. Course owners require you play a different game, pay your money and get off the course asap !!!

[Zerp]

2 hours ago, Newby said:

The Rules of Golf require you to play the course as you find it. Course owners require you play a different game, pay your money and get off the course asap !!!

When rules are changed simply for the purpose of making more money, well, it irks me. It irks me even more when an emphasis is placed on fast play and then players must use a slow cart which follows a buried cable and necessitates players to walk to their ball and back.

 

if you have played in Japan and find such acceptable, good on you. If you haven’t played here, well…..

[antip]

8 hours ago, Zerp said:

When rules are changed simply for the purpose of making more money, well, it irks me. It irks me even more when an emphasis is placed on fast play and then players must use a slow cart which follows a buried cable and necessitates players to walk to their ball and back.

 

if you have played in Japan and find such acceptable, good on you. If you haven’t played here, well…..

My experience there (once) included this joyous caddie process - one woman caddie walking with an electric cart for each 4 person group, all four sets loaded on the single cart, result: an average of 20 minutes per hole as she meandered every which way for every player's ball. It was enough to encourage you to carry 3 clubs and improvise then have a 10 minute snooze between holes. Golf in Japan is commonly not for the golfers.

[Zerp]

2 minutes ago, antip said:

My experience there (once) included this joyous caddie process - one woman caddie walking with an electric cart for each 4 person group,.

The caddie situation can vary. The upside is that if you have never played the course yardage and lines are helpful.  But it can slow things down.  Like many players here I have a small ‘carry bag’, a tripod case that can hold maybe 4 or 5 clubs. Check the yardage on the watch from the cart, estimate yardage at ball, grab the ‘right’ club and maybe something above and below that.

 

Also, my experience with caddies has been in riding carts, which they drive.  I prefer not to use a caddy so it’s been so long don’t know how they handle a 4-some with a caddy.

 

Off topic, how did stopping for lunch sit with you?  Doesn’t that idea of stopping for up to an hour and a half and eating a meal do wonders for your game?

[antip]

1 hour ago, Zerp said:

 

Off topic, how did stopping for lunch sit with you?  Doesn’t that idea of stopping for up to an hour and a half and eating a meal do wonders for your game?

We were all sent to the bath after the front 9 and before the queued restaurant experience, total of 2 hours between 9s. So my golf clubs remained unused the rest of the 3 years I lived there, in favour of activities which made greater sense for me in that country (I developed a hyakumeizan addiction).

[Zerp]

1 hour ago, antip said:

So my golf clubs remained unused the rest of the 3 years I lived there, in favour of activities which made greater sense for me in that country.

For me, the key is finding the right courses. It sounds as if you were at a more traditional, upper-level course.  The caddy is an indication of the latter.  I play at semi-private courses and public course. The former offer ‘memberships’ for reduced prices, some require a recommendation from a current member, but most don’t. I currently play at a Jack Nicklaus design course. Green fee on week days, with lunch, is less than 6000¥ ($55). No remote control, but stay on cart path. And if the story I was told is true, the main course didn’t allow women so the wife of the owner, a businesswoman herself, had this course built.

 

I’ve never heard of a bath between 9s. Well, except for me. In the summer I forego lunch and take a shower to cool down, change into fresh clothes and then relax while still trying to maintain some degree of focus. One club got used to me coming to the desk and asking for the bath area to be unlocked.