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Morikawa's Tempo


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Does anyone know how Morikawa's tempo compares to other tour players? Does he fit into the 3/1 tempo? I've seen numerous articles where he cites his tempo as one of his keys to ballstriking.

 

Curious on people's thoughts about the speed of his backswing. Typically, I think most amateurs' backswings are too slow vs. too fast. 

 

I have noticed recently, however, that when I slow down my backswing (almost painfully so), I have been flushing my irons. I'm going through a swing change with my backswing so I feel like I need to go really slow right now to engrain the feel. It goes against my natural feel, though, so I am planning on speeding my backswing back up once I have honed in my backswing.

 

 

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I'm also interested in this as I don't really understand the importance of tempo. 

 

You see something in his backswing that reminds me of a less distinct version of what Sung-Jae Im does on his backswing as well.

 

For both, the takeaway is very slow. Im then has a very distinct change to increase the speed of the backswing about halfway back. Morikawa looks to have the same acceleration in the speed of the backswing, but it occurs so smoothly that it doesn't look like two distinct motions the way that Im does. 

 

So for both players, their club as they get to the top of the swing approaching transition is moving a lot more quickly than a typical amateur with a "slow" tempo.

 

 

At least that's what it looks like to me... 

 

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1 hour ago, acekun said:

Does anyone know how Morikawa's tempo compares to other tour players? Does he fit into the 3/1 tempo? I've seen numerous articles where he cites his tempo as one of his keys to ballstriking.

 

Curious on people's thoughts about the speed of his backswing. Typically, I think most amateurs' backswings are too slow vs. too fast. 

 

I have noticed recently, however, that when I slow down my backswing (almost painfully so), I have been flushing my irons. I'm going through a swing change with my backswing so I feel like I need to go really slow right now to engrain the feel. It goes against my natural feel, though, so I am planning on speeding my backswing back up once I have honed in my backswing.

 

 

 

This is generally true, Monte has put out videos showing this. Even players like Ernie Els that visually appear slow swing quite fast relative to many amateurs. I would imagine Morikawa is similar. 

 

Taking speed out is a good way to ingrain feel for sure. 

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1 hour ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

This is generally true, Monte has put out videos showing this. Even players like Ernie Els that visually appear slow swing quite fast relative to many amateurs. I would imagine Morikawa is similar. 

 

Taking speed out is a good way to ingrain feel for sure. 

Agree. Wonder what @MonteScheinblumwould say about Collin's backswing. Know that you have talked about not necessarily copying specific moves by PGA players (exception rather than the rule). Wonder how this would be classified. 

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I tend to think most amateurs come back to fast and it does not allow for a smooth transition. I when my iron play begins to go south I look at 3 things, grip, tempo (especially my back swing) and making sure my arms are connected to my body.

 

a slow back swing allows you to maintain control and transition in synch.

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17 hours ago, acekun said:

Does anyone know how Morikawa's tempo compares to other tour players? Does he fit into the 3/1 tempo? I've seen numerous articles where he cites his tempo as one of his keys to ballstriking.

 

Curious on people's thoughts about the speed of his backswing. Typically, I think most amateurs' backswings are too slow vs. too fast. 

 

I have noticed recently, however, that when I slow down my backswing (almost painfully so), I have been flushing my irons. I'm going through a swing change with my backswing so I feel like I need to go really slow right now to engrain the feel. It goes against my natural feel, though, so I am planning on speeding my backswing back up once I have honed in my backswing.

 

 

 

I have not really seen much of his swing till the Open and noticed what looked like a pause mid backswing but actually isn't on closer inspection.

 

I think he may, and it's a guess, have been working on a takeaway drill and he starts the swing quite deliberately and picks up speed as the swing continues.

 

I always wondered if someone like matsu did similar. Stop start drills from the top and it worked its way into his normal swing just less exaggerated.

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It's not unusual to take the club back way too fast to the point of collapsing any position to start the downswing.  Then when you start taking the club back painstakingly slowly you at least get your top of the backswing to swing through the ball.  It's an extreme medicine for sure but if you keep on doing it your swing will be back on track.  If you tape your motion you'll get surprised to feel a terribly slow backswing but you see a fairly rhythmical swing.

 

Morikawa's is the ultimate rhythm in golf swinging.

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Mr. TourTempo reported that he had a lot of data to back up his claim of the 3:1 ratio, and he cited some examples of notable pros that fit his model.

 

Of course, he had a book to sell, so that automatically triggers some skepticism.  Also, it could be viewed as a kind of chicken or the egg question -- did the best ball strikers become the best ball strikers because of their fast tempo, or was the fast tempo a result of their highly refined swings that produced excellent ball striking?

 

Morikawa sure was fun to watch last Sunday.

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Loved watching his swing many times over.  I am two weeks from hitting 63 & it reminds me of what I was taught as a teenager.  The backswing is like coiling up a big spring.  The slower you go, the more tension you build in the coiling of the spring.

 

Well...there was more to it than that.  This is from back in the 70's.  Might have been a swing theory from Nicklaus.  

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On 7/19/2021 at 12:49 PM, acekun said:

Agree. Wonder what @MonteScheinblumwould say about Collin's backswing. Know that you have talked about not necessarily copying specific moves by PGA players (exception rather than the rule). Wonder how this would be classified. 

His overall backswing isn’t that slow.  He, like Im, start slow and build speed.  

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13 hours ago, naval2006 said:

It's not unusual to take the club back way too fast to the point of collapsing any position to start the downswing.  Then when you start taking the club back painstakingly slowly you at least get your top of the backswing to swing through the ball.  It's an extreme medicine for sure but if you keep on doing it your swing will be back on track.  If you tape your motion you'll get surprised to feel a terribly slow backswing but you see a fairly rhythmical swing.

 

Morikawa's is the ultimate rhythm in golf swinging.

Good remedy when your swing takes a vacation while you are on vacation! Slow things down in the mush that was your brain, don’t get quick in transition, sync up with some 100 yard 8 irons. 

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My personal biggest swing epiphany was learning that a smooth backswing/takeaway does not have to be slow.

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1 hour ago, bazinky said:

My personal biggest swing epiphany was learning that a smooth backswing/takeaway does not have to be slow.

Its that feel vs real thing everyone here likes to talk about. I video myself a few times each summer. Slow smooth back swing vs fast, each swing ends up being about 1 second. One feels good, other terrible.

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23 hours ago, tm3 said:

Mr. TourTempo reported that he had a lot of data to back up his claim of the 3:1 ratio, and he cited some examples of notable pros that fit his model.

 

Of course, he had a book to sell, so that automatically triggers some skepticism.  Also, it could be viewed as a kind of chicken or the egg question -- did the best ball strikers become the best ball strikers because of their fast tempo, or was the fast tempo a result of their highly refined swings that produced excellent ball striking?

 

Morikawa sure was fun to watch last Sunday.

 

Tour Tempo is correct.  Backswing speed is one of the ways that players 'lengthen the moment arm' that biomechanists like to discuss.  Tour Tempo is essentially providing an 'acceptable range' of backswing speed to hit the ball as long as Tour players hit it.

 

Almost every golfer on Tour is close to a 3:1 tempo a high % of their swings and are no slower than 27/9 ratio (IIRC, Matsuyama gets anywhere from 27/9 to 30/10...he's more of the exception to the rule).  Most male Tour players are within 24/8...even Morikawa.  I no longer have the app, but I'd be willing to bet that Morikawa is 24/8.  He's really not that slow at all.  The LPGA Tour tends to get more 27/9 tempos, but at the LPGA is getting better and bigger athletes that seems to not be happening as much.

 

It's largely mechanics based, but intent can screw everything up.  For instance, a friend of mine teaches one of the top junior golfers (at his age) in the world.  They went to go see Dr. Kwon (Chris Como's biomechanics mentor) and the first thing Dr. Kwon saw was that the junior golfer's backswing was way too slow along with some pivot, arm and wrist mechanics issues.  Once the speed of the backswing was increased the mechanics started to fall in place naturally.  When asked about the slow backswing, the junior golfer responded that he was always taught to take it back slowly.  

 

So it is part mechanics and on occasion, part intent.  However, I've seen good golfers who have a 24/8 ratio train to get to 21/7 and substantially improve their ballstriking and distance.  Others I've seen train for it and just don't feel comfortable doing it and would need to make drastic changes to their mechanics to increase that speed.

 

Morikawa is far faster than your average 10 handicap.  Matsuyama really isn't that slow, he just has that pause at he top and is more the exception than the rule.  

 

 

 

 

RH

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  • 2 weeks later...

FYI Monte just showed this a few days ago on IG.

 

From P3 to impact, Morikawa's tempo is identical to Tiger. He may start slower to get to P3, but he's not slow from there...

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CR6uMFJDsVJ/

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  • 2 months later...
On 7/21/2021 at 9:27 AM, RichieHunt said:

 

Tour Tempo is correct.  Backswing speed is one of the ways that players 'lengthen the moment arm' that biomechanists like to discuss.  Tour Tempo is essentially providing an 'acceptable range' of backswing speed to hit the ball as long as Tour players hit it.

 

Almost every golfer on Tour is close to a 3:1 tempo a high % of their swings and are no slower than 27/9 ratio (IIRC, Matsuyama gets anywhere from 27/9 to 30/10...he's more of the exception to the rule).  Most male Tour players are within 24/8...even Morikawa.  I no longer have the app, but I'd be willing to bet that Morikawa is 24/8.  He's really not that slow at all.  The LPGA Tour tends to get more 27/9 tempos, but at the LPGA is getting better and bigger athletes that seems to not be happening as much.

 

It's largely mechanics based, but intent can screw everything up.  For instance, a friend of mine teaches one of the top junior golfers (at his age) in the world.  They went to go see Dr. Kwon (Chris Como's biomechanics mentor) and the first thing Dr. Kwon saw was that the junior golfer's backswing was way too slow along with some pivot, arm and wrist mechanics issues.  Once the speed of the backswing was increased the mechanics started to fall in place naturally.  When asked about the slow backswing, the junior golfer responded that he was always taught to take it back slowly.  

 

So it is part mechanics and on occasion, part intent.  However, I've seen good golfers who have a 24/8 ratio train to get to 21/7 and substantially improve their ballstriking and distance.  Others I've seen train for it and just don't feel comfortable doing it and would need to make drastic changes to their mechanics to increase that speed.

 

Morikawa is far faster than your average 10 handicap.  Matsuyama really isn't that slow, he just has that pause at he top and is more the exception than the rule.  

 

 

 

 

RH

 

When you mention 24/8, 27/9, 30/10, those are all 3:1. What, exactly, are those numbers measuring? I don't understand the difference. Just ignorant of this.

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37 minutes ago, playit said:

 

When you mention 24/8, 27/9, 30/10, those are all 3:1. What, exactly, are those numbers measuring? I don't understand the difference. Just ignorant of this.

Increments of time, in a 1/30 of a second interval. 

 

That's chosen because TV is at 30 frames per second, as is most other video like what your cellphone captures. (Movies are traditionally 24 FPS, or at least used to be.)

 

So if you're 30:10, your swing takes 1.33 seconds, with the backswing being 30 increments or 1 second, and the downswing being 10 increments or 1/3 second. 

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