Ryder Cup - Do we even have a chance?

[ShowMe]

On 9/7/2021 at 4:55 PM, Pepperturbo said:

Most of the US team members are NOT intense competitive winners; that's the problem.  Euro teammates act like team DAVID, wanting to take down Goliath.  I respect that.  Our guys talk the talk but don't know how to walk the walk.  Winning happens by accident for most American golfers.  They simply don't have the killer, I want to step on my opponent's throat, instinct. 

 

It's a mindset that was quite common in my generation.  I have had that instinct all my life, reason I don't play any games with close friends or family. 

Most folks grow out of that as they mature.  They mellow.  Their brains literally change as they get older.  However, there are people who will always have a chip on their shoulder because of growing up in a dysfunctional family or experiencing some other sort of trauma, typically at a young age.  In other cases, that aggressiveness is a cover for a deeply felt sense of inadequacy and low self-esteem.

 

Anyway, that's what my daughter, a clinical psychologist, tells me.  Your experience may vary...

[ShowMe]

3 hours ago, Forged4ever said:

The Euros haven't even hit a shot, sank a putt or put a point on the board and they are breathing a huge sigh of relief, lololol.

 

Sticker's not selecting Patrick as a Captain's pick has got to have the boy's across the pond raising pints and whoopin it up already, lolol. My $1000 is lookin safer everyday and the USA hasn't even sprayed a drive or yanked a putt yet😂😂🤙

 

Seriously, I haven't been this excited for a RC in years, lol!!

 

Had Patrick been selected, I would have tempered my enthusiasm for the Euros and laid something down on the US side.

 

The least Stricker could've done was contact Patrick to see how he's feeling(He's feeling fine BTW). As THE most RC point winning current US Player not named Tiger, he deserved at least that courtesy. 

 

Even if he's not 💯, his intensity, tenacity, drive and grit would help a team sorely lacking in these traits and leadership. This is a pack of talented sheep🐑. There ain't a sheep dog🐕 amongst em, so the wolves are gonna have a feast😂😂
 

Now, it's pedal to the metal Gents🤙

 

Starting with Strick, who's as Classy as they come, this is a US team begggggggin for a beating😜!!!

 

And we all know the twelve guys who will gladly administer that beating in short order😂😂!!

 

Hey, it ain't football🏈, but it's as close as ya can come without gettin arrested😜

 

As always, just my .03 worth😊

 

Have a Great Weekend My Friends👊
RP

https://nypost.com/2021/09/10/patrick-reed-likes-tweets-ripping-coward-ryder-cup-captain-after-snub/amp/

 

 

 

 

I think that if PR hadn't "almost died" (his description) a couple of weeks ago, he would have been on the team.  He should have kept it to himself.

[Pepperturbo]

17 hours ago, ShowMe said:

Most folks grow out of that as they mature.  They mellow.  Their brains literally change as they get older.  However, there are people who will always have a chip on their shoulder because of growing up in a dysfunctional family or experiencing some other sort of trauma, typically at a young age.  In other cases, that aggressiveness is a cover for a deeply felt sense of inadequacy and low self-esteem.

 

Anyway, that's what my daughter, a clinical psychologist, tells me.  Your experience may vary...

Yes, it does.  As I've said before, I am clincially trained, plus I employ a few psychologists, my wife is a Clinical Director over clinical psychologists, then there are my buddies; an agency psychologist, a psychiatrist/MD and an Orthopedic surgeon, don't know how he got in there. 😛  Measuring people depends on where their experience is founded.  You have a good wkend.

 

[ShowMe]

6 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Yes, it does.  As I've said before, I am clincially trained, plus I employ a few psychologists, my wife is a Clinical Director over clinical psychologists, then there are my buddies; an agency psychologist, a psychiatrist/MD and an Orthopedic surgeon, don't know how he got in there. 😛  Measuring people depends on where their experience is founded.  You have a good wkend.

 

Wait.  What?  You're a clinical psychologist?  The guy who said - "They simply don't have the killer, I want to step on my opponent's throat, instinct...I have had that instinct all my life, reason I don't play any games with close friends or family."

 

Lol.  Now that is funny.  Do you yell at your patients when they started whining about how unfair life is to them?  You sound like my kind of doctor.  lol

[Pepperturbo]

1 minute ago, ShowMe said:

Wait.  What?  You're a clinical psychologist?  The guy who said - "They simply don't have the killer, I want to step on my opponent's throat, instinct...I have had that instinct all my life, reason I don't play any games with close friends or family."

 

Lol.  Now that is funny.  Do you yell at your patients when they started whining about how unfair life is to them?  You sound like my kind of doctor.  lol

Bold is true. 

 

NO, I am NOT, never even implied that, just clinically educated, NOT licensed, reason I employ psychologists.  I own service businesses that focus on Fortune 1000 tech sector.  I don't yell or lose control, ever, my voice is such, don't need to.  

[ShowMe]

11 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Bold is true. 

 

NO, I am NOT, never even implied that, just clinically educated, NOT licensed, reason I employ psychologists.  I own service businesses that focus on Fortune 1000 tech sector.  I don't yell or lose control, ever, my voice is such, don't need to.  

Got it.  You're a business owner.  Well, then having the killer instinct has probably helped you to become very successful.

 

I'm a little concerned about the never lose control or yell thing, though.  That's one of the symptoms of being a psychopath.  "When stressed, a sociopath may fly off the handle, but a psychopath will remain calm."  Interestingly, many CEOs and serial killers share a lot of the same personality characteristics.  Lack of empathy.  Narcissistic.  Lack of remorse or guilt.  etc.  Have you ever been psychoanalyzed?

 

All that said, I am an ENTJ in the Myers-Briggs personality test.  But so was Ted Bundy.  Oops...

[miamistomp]

 Good thing Chuck Norris doesn't play golf

 It would be like 

 

[imakaveli]

Relax guys, no way we are winning this time, no way! We have Westy on the team, remember?

[caeye0710]

On 9/7/2021 at 4:55 PM, Pepperturbo said:

Most of the US team members are NOT intense competitive winners; that's the problem.  Euro teammates act like team DAVID, wanting to take down Goliath.  I respect that.  Our guys talk the talk but don't know how to walk the walk.  Winning happens by accident for most American golfers.  They simply don't have the killer, I want to step on my opponent's throat, instinct. 

 

It's a mindset that was quite common in my generation.  I have had that instinct all my life, reason I don't play any games with close friends or family. 

A lot of merit in here. 
 

Disclaimer: I’m the OP and I’ve read some of the hashing toward the end of this thread. In no way am I clinically trained. 
 

That said: my minor disagreement that I’d personally and respectfully have on your comments above are:

 

I believe the professional athletes in the upper echelon (in this instance, those on the Ryder Cup teams) all somewhat possess the “killer instinct”. All 24 of these guys want to win badly, and I would almost argue that the Americans do so more than some of the Euros on the team. 
 

Tiger is an excellent example. He didn’t just want to win, he wanted to destroy. 
 

His Ryder Cup record is 13-17-3. He is 4-2-2 in singles. 
 

From the outside looking in (and an unqualified opinion), it just seems like the Euros are able to take that mentality and combine it into the team, whereas the Americans are not. 
 

I could be completely wrong, but it’s just my two cents. 

[ShowMe]

17 minutes ago, miamistomp said:

 Good thing Chuck Norris doesn't play golf

 It would be like 

 

Lol!  Don't get me started.

 

There used to be a street named Chuck Norris, but they had to change the name, because NOBODY crosses Chuck Norris.

 

Chuck Norris doesn't bleed blood, blood bleeds Chuck Norris.

 

Chuck Norris doesn’t read books. He stares them down until he gets the information he wants.

 

Time waits for no man. Unless that man is Chuck Norris.

 

If you spell Chuck Norris in Scrabble, you win. Forever.

 

In the Beginning there was nothing … then Chuck Norris roundhouse kicked nothing and told it to get a job.

 

Chuck Norris’ tears cure cancer. Too bad he has never cried.

 

 

[miamistomp]

Chuck Norris bowled a perfect game..

 

 

.

 

While using a golf ball.

[Pepperturbo]

58 minutes ago, ShowMe said:

Got it.  You're a business owner.  Well, then having the killer instinct has probably helped you to become very successful.

 

I'm a little concerned about the never lose control or yell thing, though.  That's one of the symptoms of being a psychopath.  "When stressed, a sociopath may fly off the handle, but a psychopath will remain calm."  Interestingly, many CEOs and serial killers share a lot of the same personality characteristics.  Lack of empathy.  Narcissistic.  Lack of remorse or guilt.  etc.  Have you ever been psychoanalyzed?

 

All that said, I am an ENTJ in the Myers-Briggs personality test.  But so was Ted Bundy.  Oops...

Bold assumptions and question.  Yes, government tested me back in the 70s.  They are the one's that discovered the conditions I cope with today, and my intelligence quotient.  And, contractors are not selected for black-opts or team leadership if they lack self-control and have anger issues.  

Edited September 11, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[BNGL]

19 hours ago, ShowMe said:

Most folks grow out of that as they mature.  They mellow.  Their brains literally change as they get older.  However, there are people who will always have a chip on their shoulder because of growing up in a dysfunctional family or experiencing some other sort of trauma, typically at a young age.  In other cases, that aggressiveness is a cover for a deeply felt sense of inadequacy and low self-esteem.

 

Anyway, that's what my daughter, a clinical psychologist, tells me.  Your experience may vary...

Good luck debating with that cockalorum. He tried telling me about course conditions and backed it up with “I was on the BOD at 2 mid level private clubs” I was a class A superintendent for 25 years, who also hosted PGA Tour events…I think I’m more than qualified to determine the effects of grain on the PGA Tour.

[Gsea]

16 minutes ago, BNGL said:

Good luck debating with that cockalorum. He tried telling me about course conditions and backed it up with “I was on the BOD at 2 mid level private clubs” I was a class A superintendent for 25 years, who also hosted PGA Tour events…I think I’m more than qualified to determine the effects of grain on the PGA Tour.

well maybe if you were a clinically trained black ops superintendent 🙂

[caeye0710]

1 minute ago, Gsea said:

well maybe if you were a clinically trained black ops superintendent 🙂

When I started this thread, I had no idea this much entertainment and weenie measuring would take place. 😆

[BNGL]

8 minutes ago, Gsea said:

well maybe if you were a clinically trained black ops superintendent 🙂

Lmfao yeah Oakmont trained just isn’t good enough any more 

Edited September 11, 2021 by BNGL

[Forged4ever]

19 minutes ago, caeye0710 said:

When I started this thread, I had no idea this much entertainment and weenie measuring would take place. 😆

C'mon, you've been around long enough to know better than that😂😂🤙

 

Have a Great Weekend🍻

RP

Edited September 11, 2021 by Forged4ever

[Pepperturbo]

1 hour ago, caeye0710 said:

A lot of merit in here. 
 

Disclaimer: I’m the OP and I’ve read some of the hashing toward the end of this thread. In no way am I clinically trained. 
 

That said: my minor disagreement that I’d personally and respectfully have on your comments above are:

 

I believe the professional athletes in the upper echelon (in this instance, those on the Ryder Cup teams) all somewhat possess the “killer instinct”. All 24 of these guys want to win badly, and I would almost argue that the Americans do so more than some of the Euros on the team. 
 

Tiger is an excellent example. He didn’t just want to win, he wanted to destroy. 
 

His Ryder Cup record is 13-17-3. He is 4-2-2 in singles. 
 

From the outside looking in (and an unqualified opinion), it just seems like the Euros are able to take that mentality and combine it into the team, whereas the Americans are not. 
 

I could be completely wrong, but it’s just my two cents. 

Appreciate your thoughts. 

 

Killer instinct and WILL guide someone to win by a huge margin, totally stomping their opponents neck till they just give up. 

 

Then there's this: How often do we hear - we want to see a real competition, in tennis 5 sets and a gazillion tiebreaker points leading to a winner by a margin.  In golf two-three guys coming down 18 within a stroke of each other, anyone could win after a play-off.  In football, we want the winning teams score to be slightly more than the opponent, same in baseball.  I like seeing a team or competitor annihilate their opponent.  Football players carried off the field cause someone really took out his opponent.

 

Some people never quit... SOG team members never give up; it's a frame of mind.  Their "WILL" to win and or overcome obstacles drives them.  Then there's Tiger, and his SOG officer dad.  It was that orientation in his youth that made Tiger grow into a major force.  He was comfortable stomping on the field till all they could do was step aside and be amazed as he set win records. 

 

I don't know all the tour players background, but Tiger, Reed, maybe DJ and a few others won't quit when they have a comfortable lead.  When you have the lead, that's when you figuratively step up your game, and step on the opponent's throat to WIN by a big margin. 

 

To see who's who, I don't look at a persons numbers or their home life, as much as a person's frame of mind in competition.  Being a professional golfer is different from other professional athletes.  Professional golfers often win as a result of other golfers giving it away.  The winner didn't take the win from the field, like Tiger.  Call Reed what you will, make every imperfection Reed has a reason to hate him.  He's still a competitive fighter and doesn't care whether people like him or not, and he's not put off by the booing, etc.  He knows, like Tiger and others, can't make everyone happy.   

 

Your bold statement is IMO spot on.  Euros - though individuals - behave, for the most part, like a natural team, they are all from small countries where America had a hand in helping their homeland at some juncture.  Whereas, our team is made up of many spoiled individuals that don't know how to meld, much less be a cohesive team that is confident enough to take and give.  They force it which is why it doesn't work as well.

 

Each of us has different perceptions, most of which is based on our lives.

[Hawkeye77]

[Pepperturbo]

43 minutes ago, BNGL said:

Good luck debating with that cockalorum. He tried telling me about course conditions and backed it up with “I was on the BOD at 2 mid level private clubs” I was a class A superintendent for 25 years, who also hosted PGA Tour events…I think I’m more than qualified to determine the effects of grain on the PGA Tour.

You're special...

[BNGL]

22 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

You're special...

Most accurate thing you’ve ever posted.

[Forged4ever]

2 hours ago, caeye0710 said:

A lot of merit in here. 
 

Disclaimer: I’m the OP and I’ve read some of the hashing toward the end of this thread. In no way am I clinically trained. 
 

That said: my minor disagreement that I’d personally and respectfully have on your comments above are:

 

I believe the professional athletes in the upper echelon (in this instance, those on the Ryder Cup teams) all somewhat possess the “killer instinct”. All 24 of these guys want to win badly, and I would almost argue that the Americans do so more than some of the Euros on the team. 
 

Tiger is an excellent example. He didn’t just want to win, he wanted to destroy. 
 

His Ryder Cup record is 13-17-3. He is 4-2-2 in singles. 
 

From the outside looking in (and an unqualified opinion), it just seems like the Euros are able to take that mentality and combine it into the team, whereas the Americans are not. 
 

I could be completely wrong, but it’s just my two cents. 

Nope, you're pretty much spot on~
 

While all the guys on the team have obviously won, and won more than the average Tour Boy or they wouldn't be on the team, they win when they are Playin lights out and everything's going their way, when they have their A game and when they get "hot" if you will, however they do not win with their B or C game, when their backs are against the wall or they've had to come back from poor shots, holes or rounds to win, which Tiger has done myriad times.Tiger's fierceness as a competitor is only matched by less than a handful, possibly 2-3, Pros who've ever Played for Pau. 

 

The average Tour Boy's psyche will be forever summed up in 2003 by the then NUMBER TWO PLAYER IN THE WORLD, Ernie Els, stated at a Presser that when Tiger was Playing on all cylinders, "the rest of us are playing for second place."

 

This is the NUMBER TWO PLAYER ON Planet EARTH🌎(I realize that Ernie is not an American, however with the exception of David & Hal, it was friggin crickets 🦗🦗 from the American🇺🇸 Players)!!
 

Thank God Vijay, David and earlier(2000), Hal, didn't buy into that psyche/mentality. 

 

The problem is that the Americans are fine if they get up to a lead either in their match or on the scoreboard. However if they are down in either, the b*tch nipping begins in the locker room as the lack of leadership is the most glaring and guys pack it in, as all that one has got to do is observe their body language, how they carry themselves in the course and how they play not to lose versus Playing to win. There is a huge difference and a few of you know exactly of what I speak. 
 

I speak for no one else on this board but myself however I judge a guy but how he Plays when all that he's got is his B or C game, or when things start goin sideways midway through the round. How he comes out and Plays when his team is down 2-4 points goin into Sunday and he's 2 down after 4 holes in the singles.

 

Tiger's overall record had/has nothing to do with his drive or will to win or lack thereof, as if anything, a lot of time's he was carrying a partner and in my view, put in a position where he had to hit the "hero" shot, which he normally would only hit 2-3 times a round on his own when Playing well, though I saw him hit what I considered "hero" shots 9 and 12 times in the two four ball matches that I'm referring to, and that's waaaay too many, unless you're Playin your C game, which he was not, or you/he has a sh*tty Partner if it's teams, though it was not by choice, as it was basically he against the Euro twosome(I'm thinking of three matches specifically, two of em four-ball).

 

That aside, you're spot on regarding the Euros having the ability to sacrifice their own wants, needs and desires for the good of the team. As was stated earlier in this thread, I believe....

 

They "get it,".....

 

As always, just my .03 worth😊

 

Nice post and thread Caeye, even though I've detailed it a few times😂😂👊
 

Fairways Greens & Fair Skies 4ever⛳️
RP

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Forged4ever

[Forged4ever]

On 7/19/2021 at 2:54 PM, caeye0710 said:

Great point, but I'm speaking more on the fact that the US team seems to be more focused on the fact of a select few not getting along. 

 

Talent wise, I think we have a major edge. 

 

Comradery wise, I think we are screwed.  

One of THE most astute comments in the thread!!

 

Cheers🍻

RP

[caeye0710]

23 minutes ago, Forged4ever said:

Nope, you're pretty much spot on~
 

While all the guys on the team have obviously won, and won more than the average Tour Boy or they wouldn't be on the team, they win when they are Playin lights out and everything's going their way, when they have their A game and when they get "hot" if you will, however they do not win with their B or C game, when their backs are against the wall or they've had to come back from poor shots, holes or rounds to win, which Tiger has done myriad times.Tiger's fierceness as a competitor is only matched by less than a handful, possibly 2-3, Pros who've ever Played for Pau. 

 

The average Tour Boy's psyche will be forever summed up in 2003 by the then NUMBER TWO PLAYER IN THE WORLD, Ernie Els, stated at a Presser that when Tiger was Playing on all cylinders, "the rest of us are playing for second place."

 

This is the NUMBER TWO PLAYER ON Planet EARTH🌎(I realize that Ernie is not an American, however with the exception of David & Hal, it was friggin crickets 🦗🦗 from the American🇺🇸 Players)!!
 

Thank God Vijay, David and earlier(2000), Hal, didn't buy into that psyche/mentality. 

 

The problem is that the Americans are fine if they get up to a lead either in their match or on the scoreboard. However if they are down in either, the b*tch nipping begins in the locker room as the lack of leadership is the most glaring and guys pack it in, as all that one has got to do is observe their body language, how they carry themselves in the course and how they play not to lose versus Playing to win. There is a huge difference and a few of you know exactly of what I speak. 
 

I speak for no one else on this board but myself however I judge a guy but how he Plays when all that he's got is his B or C game, or when things start goin sideways midway through the round. How he comes out and Plays when his team is down 2-4 points goin into Sunday and he's 2 down after 4 holes in the singles.

 

Tiger's overall record had/has nothing to do with his drive or will to win or lack thereof, as if anything, a lot of time's he was carrying a partner and in my view, put in a position where he had to hit the "hero" shot, which he normally would only hit 2-3 times a round on his own when Playing well, though I saw him hit what I considered "hero" shots 9 and 12 times in the two four ball matches that I'm referring to, and that's waaaay too many, unless you're Playin your C game, which he was not, or you/he has a sh*tty Partner if it's teams, though it was not by choice, as it was basically he against the Euro twosome(I'm thinking of three matches specifically, two of em four-ball).

 

That aside, you're spot on regarding the Euros having the ability to sacrifice their own wants, needs and desires for the good of the team. As was stated earlier in this thread, I believe....

 

They "get it,".....

 

As always, just my .03 worth😊

 

Nice post and thread Caeye, even though I've detailed it a few times😂😂👊
 

Fairways Greens & Fair Skies 4ever⛳️
RP

 

Always a pleasure to see your replies on the few threads I start (and the even fewer that are worth a darn) 

[m d g]

"Ryder Cup - Do we even have a chance?"

 

[Titleist99]

I am "Ye of little faith".....It doesn't matter who is on the Euro team they become a putting Guru, a putting Ninja or be in a putting trance. The Euros just goes out and get their point and don't worry about anything else. For the European tour it's life and death....For the US it's something to do on the weekend. IMO Let's see how this post age....LOL! 

 

To me the event is just a putting match....IMO

[scruffynick]

Just seen the US team, it's frightening 😱 thinking if it's close going into the singles on home soil, they'll win on the last day. Europe need a cushion on at least 2 going into the singles.....hope it's close, really hope it's last match drama 

[ShowMe]

7 hours ago, scruffynick said:

Just seen the US team, it's frightening 😱 thinking if it's close going into the singles on home soil, they'll win on the last day. Europe need a cushion on at least 2 going into the singles.....hope it's close, really hope it's last match drama 

Patty (Paddy?) Ice vs. Poulter in the last match.  Each guy sinking clutch 20 foot putts.  Poulter being demonstrative, Cantlay being ice cold.  That would be great tv.

[Forged4ever]

19 minutes ago, ShowMe said:

Patty (Paddy?) Ice vs. Poulter in the last match.  Each guy sinking clutch 20 foot putts.  Poulter being demonstrative, Cantlay being ice cold.  That would be great tv.

Paddy😊🤙

 

Have a Great Week👊
RP

Edited September 13, 2021 by Forged4ever

[Duct Tape]

All of a sudden Cantlay, often accused of being boring, has become entertaining

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Duct Tape