Jump to content

Bushnell Launch Pro Device with Foresight


Recommended Posts

Technically covered themselves in 10Q filing under section item 2. In the Forward-Looking Information is Subject to Risk and Uncertainty. 

 

  • supplier capacity constraints, production or shipping disruptions or quality or price issues affecting our operating costs;

 https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0001616318/85ab506a-b545-425a-8bfb-bf1013a7f389.pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I couldn't wait anymore for confirmed news. Too much speculation and each new tidbit of info discouraged me more and more.

 

As much as I wanted it, I opted for the on sale Mevo+. Ordered on Monday, got it today (Thursday).

 

Hope the Launch Pro doesn't disappoint.

  • Like 1

Callaway Paradym Ai Smoke Triple Diamond Max 9* Mitsubishi Kai'li White 60 
Titleist TSi2 18* 5W Accra FX 3.0 200F M4

Titleist TSi2 26* 6H Project X Hzrdus Smoke Black RDX 80

PING i230 6-UW Nippon N.S. Pro Modus 3 115

PING s159 S 54* PING zz-115

PING s159 E 58* PING zz-115
L.A.B. Golf DF3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, games said:

For sake of argument, let's say a $3,000 price point (If that's even true) includes one-dot club data.

 

How am I any better off than with MEVO+ at over a grand cheaper?  Because I know my club path?

 

This is why I think the talk of a $3000 base price is garbage.  Way too high comparative to what's already in the market.

 

I should look it up, but is the Mevo+ accuracy comparable to Foresight? One of the reasons I'm excited about the Launch Pro is I trust Foresight data. 

 

I agree one-dot mode isn't overly impressive. In my opinion, if you have accurate ball speed, club head speed is irrelevant. Also, while the data geek in me wants as much club head data as possible, ball flight answers most (all?) face to path questions. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I found my Mevo+ indoors to be unreliable with spin access, spin rate, and therefore carry distances.  I even had over 12' of ball flight and it was all over the place.  It just wasn't practical to play simulation or rely on for practice.  I don't mean to knock the Mevo+ it's great for what it is and that said I also have no faith that the Fullswing Kit will be any better at indoor accuracy. 

Edited by amj6135
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, games said:

For sake of argument, let's say a $3,000 price point (If that's even true) includes one-dot club data.

 

How am I any better off than with MEVO+ at over a grand cheaper?  Because I know my club path?

 

This is why I think the talk of a $3000 base price is garbage.  Way too high comparative to what's already in the market.

I also trust Foresight data more (and camera systems for that matter) for the type of data I'm looking for. For me though, I'm losing faith that it's going to be $3k (my absolute budget limit) or that it's coming out within the next month. I don't want anything to do with $200+/yr subscriptions either. There's also the lack of info about its compatibilities and U.S. pricing. These single nuggets of info each week started annoying me so I went with the Mevo+. I had great hopes for this, more than even the Full Swing Kit that I was also closely watching.

 

Both of these units no doubt are a step (or several) over Skytrak and Mevo+.

 

Nevertheless, $500 off the Mevo+ ($200 off, plus no tax and free shipping) which has TGC2019 and E6 compatibility was too good to pass up while being this annoyed. My setup is outside and I will be using an iOS device anyway.

Edited by sshadow2
  • Like 1

Callaway Paradym Ai Smoke Triple Diamond Max 9* Mitsubishi Kai'li White 60 
Titleist TSi2 18* 5W Accra FX 3.0 200F M4

Titleist TSi2 26* 6H Project X Hzrdus Smoke Black RDX 80

PING i230 6-UW Nippon N.S. Pro Modus 3 115

PING s159 S 54* PING zz-115

PING s159 E 58* PING zz-115
L.A.B. Golf DF3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, soupy01833 said:

what does the sale of Foresight to Vista outdoors do to the price or the market strategy 

 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-09/vista-outdoor-said-to-near-deal-for-golf-simulator-maker

Ahhhh it starts to make sense now. Vista is the same company that owns Bushnell.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

M&A activity is at an all time high, which means a ton of companies are getting almost 30X EBITDA and even higher! $500 MM straight cash, hmmmm yeah I would sell my company! 

 

Hopefully they will let Foresight continue operating as they have before and just help with the distribution and expand the market. 

Edited by WallysWorld
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, WallysWorld said:

M&A activity is at an all time high, which means a ton of companies are getting almost 30X EBITDA and even higher! $500 MM straight cash, hmmmm yeah I would sell my company! 

 

Hopefully they will let Foresight continue operating as they have before and just help with the distribution and expand the market. 

 

30X EBITDA.  It's the late 90's all over again! 😀  Probably a good place for this quote from Scott McNealy, founder/CEO of Sun Microsystems and father of PGA Tour player Maverick, about valuations in the dot-com era:

 

"At 10 times revenues, to give you a 10-year payback, I have to pay you 100% of revenues for 10 straight years in dividends. That assumes I can get that by my shareholders. That assumes I have zero cost of goods sold, which is very hard for a computer company. That assumes zero expenses, which is really hard with 39,000 employees. That assumes I pay no taxes, which is very hard. And that assumes you pay no taxes on your dividends, which is kind of illegal. And that assumes with zero R&D for the next 10 years, I can maintain the current revenue run rate. Now, having done that, would any of you like to buy my stock at $64? Do you realize how ridiculous those basic assumptions are? You don’t need any transparency. You don’t need any footnotes. What were you thinking?"

  • Like 1

Titleist TSR2 11*, Oban Devotion 65 S

Titleist TSR2 16.5*, GD Tour AD BB 7S

Titleist TSR2 21*, Fujikura Speeder Pro TS 84

Titleist TS2 25*, GD Tour AD HY 95S
Titleist T100S, 6-GW, Recoil 110 F4

Miura 52.06, 56.10, 60.09, Recoil Proto 125 F4

Ping PLD Custom Anser 4, 34"/355g

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, dwboston said:

 

30X EBITDA.  It's the late 90's all over again! 😀  Probably a good place for this quote from Scott McNealy, founder/CEO of Sun Microsystems and father of PGA Tour player Maverick, about valuations in the dot-com era:

 

"At 10 times revenues, to give you a 10-year payback, I have to pay you 100% of revenues for 10 straight years in dividends. That assumes I can get that by my shareholders. That assumes I have zero cost of goods sold, which is very hard for a computer company. That assumes zero expenses, which is really hard with 39,000 employees. That assumes I pay no taxes, which is very hard. And that assumes you pay no taxes on your dividends, which is kind of illegal. And that assumes with zero R&D for the next 10 years, I can maintain the current revenue run rate. Now, having done that, would any of you like tuy my stock at $64? Do you realize how ridiculous those basic assumptions are? You don’t need any transparency. You don’t need any footnotes. What were you thinking?"

Yet here we are buying a non monetary value digital code named "Dodgecoin and Bitcoin BEP2" - at $46,477! Weird times 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps I'm setting myself up for disappointment, but I'm cautiously optimistic about the purchase news.

 

If Bushnell / their holding company owns Foresight, then perhaps some of their more restrictive policies and pricing (e.g. requiring a FSX license before purchasing other sim software) might be relaxed.

 

I think Bushnell prefers more mainstream type sales figures and a slightly lower return per unit could lead to significantly higher sales.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

Perhaps I'm setting myself up for disappointment, but I'm cautiously optimistic about the purchase news.

 

If Bushnell / their holding company owns Foresight, then perhaps some of their more restrictive policies and pricing (e.g. requiring a FSX license before purchasing other sim software) might be relaxed.

 

I think Bushnell prefers more mainstream type sales figures and a slightly lower return per unit could lead to significantly higher sales.

I would think the opposite. Foresight and Trackman dont need to partner with anyone to do simulation unlike Skytrack etc.

 

If I bought Foresight I would want to protect the cash-cow revenue from the enterprise customers whilst dramatically increasing sales to individuals. This can be done with licensing so that everybody uses similar same hardware/software; foresight have already done the hard work with the hw/sw. The prices mentioned throughout this thread suggest Foresight is sticking firmly to its cash-cow MO but that means they can only sell a miniscule number of units/simulators etc compared to. Hopefully a different owner will see the immense potential in this market

 

Sell the GC3 as a device only with iPad/Android software - $1k = This will eliminate the R10 and cheaper competitors. Vast numbers of people would be interested in this combination.

Sell the GC3 with FSX minus the simulation component - $2k = This eliminates Skytrak and Mevo

Sell the GC3 with full FSX - £3k = This elminates Skytrak as a simulator and they keep all of the revenue because it is a closed ecosystem.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, James495738 said:

I would think the opposite. Foresight and Trackman dont need to partner with anyone to do simulation unlike Skytrack etc.

 

If I bought Foresight I would want to protect the cash-cow revenue from the enterprise customers whilst dramatically increasing sales to individuals. This can be done with licensing so that everybody uses similar same hardware/software; foresight have already done the hard work with the hw/sw. The prices mentioned throughout this thread suggest Foresight is sticking firmly to its cash-cow MO but that means they can only sell a miniscule number of units/simulators etc compared to. Hopefully a different owner will see the immense potential in this market

 

Sell the GC3 as a device only with iPad/Android software - $1k = This will eliminate the R10 and cheaper competitors. Vast numbers of people would be interested in this combination.

Sell the GC3 with FSX minus the simulation component - $2k = This eliminates Skytrak and Mevo

Sell the GC3 with full FSX - £3k = This elminates Skytrak as a simulator and they keep all of the revenue because it is a closed ecosystem.

 

 

I think the issue with that is that it costs substantially more to make the products because they use better hardware which is why it's more expensive than a garmin and therefore more accurate. Unlike a ps5 that they make 100 m of, this market is a fraction the size so they don't have scale to reduce the production costs. They also don't sell enough software to drive down the price. I bet as the tech improves the price does go down massively but that is years away. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, dwboston said:

 

30X EBITDA.  It's the late 90's all over again! 😀  Probably a good place for this quote from Scott McNealy, founder/CEO of Sun Microsystems and father of PGA Tour player Maverick, about valuations in the dot-com era:

 

"At 10 times revenues, to give you a 10-year payback, I have to pay you 100% of revenues for 10 straight years in dividends. That assumes I can get that by my shareholders. That assumes I have zero cost of goods sold, which is very hard for a computer company. That assumes zero expenses, which is really hard with 39,000 employees. That assumes I pay no taxes, which is very hard. And that assumes you pay no taxes on your dividends, which is kind of illegal. And that assumes with zero R&D for the next 10 years, I can maintain the current revenue run rate. Now, having done that, would any of you like to buy my stock at $64? Do you realize how ridiculous those basic assumptions are? You don’t need any transparency. You don’t need any footnotes. What were you thinking?"

 

Didn't look at the valuation but a high multiple would be expected for a company that is technology driven and presumably has a large component of the business derived from monthly recurring revenue for which there is no cost to service. Just my .02. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, games said:

For sake of argument, let's say a $3,000 price point (If that's even true) includes one-dot club data.

 

How am I any better off than with MEVO+ at over a grand cheaper?  Because I know my club path?

 

This is why I think the talk of a $3000 base price is garbage.  Way too high comparative to what's already in the market.

You would have accurate AoA, club path, and club head speed numbers. Combine that with ball data taken indoors that is actually accurate and you have all the info you need to calculate any data point you can think of.

 

At that point, the Bushnell Launch Pro is measuring everything a Trackman that costs $20k measures before calculating everything else like face angle etc.

 

So basically, if you are savy enough, with the data points the bushnell launch pro measures (including 1 dot club data), you could very accurately back into any clubhead  number you can think of.

 

Also, the unit is accurately/reliably capturing spin and can be trusted indoors. The mevo+ doesn't (at least accurately).

 

But the launch pro won't cost $3k with club data i'm almost sure of it. 

 

With that being said even at $7k it is still more attractive than a mevo+ to me.

 

 

Edited by DinoSpumoni228
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, noodle24 said:

I think this is probably great news to all the people outside of the US on this forum. 

 

I'd have to guess this makes the domestic partnership agreement pretty much pointless now to anyone besides the accountants at Bushnell who have to worry about how revenue is booked between entities internally.

 

Hopefully they roll it out to everyone at the same price with the same potential options now.

 

This will probably delay it's release though so that kinda sucks.

 

 

 

Edited by DinoSpumoni228
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This part seems positive for timing (after hearing they were pushing out until January): "The Launch Pro, a personal launch monitor built on the industry's best and most widely accepted technology, will be available for purchase at BushnellGolf.com and select golf retail outlets nationwide this Fall."
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DinoSpumoni228 said:

 

With that being said even at $7k it is still more attractive than a mevo+ to me.

 

 

 

Yeah, at 7k with the club data and the ability to use FSX plus other software integrated into the system I would be kinda disappointed I bought my GC2 when I did.   Now if it's 3k I'm pissed and please don't tell my wife lmfao.  I doubt it'll be that cheap but maybe unlocked without FSX?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, xTsunami said:

 

Yeah, at 7k with the club data and the ability to use FSX plus other software integrated into the system I would be kinda disappointed I bought my GC2 when I did.   Now if it's 3k I'm pissed and please don't tell my wife lmfao.  I doubt it'll be that cheap but maybe unlocked without FSX?  

I think it’s possible 3k-4k gets you the unit but with ball data only and no software (if so, great value in my opinion). That would then mean another 3-4k for club data + FSX (or some kind of subscription equivalent) to end up at the rumored all-in international price point of about 7k USD. That would all add up/makes sense based on everything we’ve heard. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, games said:

For sake of argument, let's say a $3,000 price point (If that's even true) includes one-dot club data.

 

How am I any better off than with MEVO+ at over a grand cheaper?  Because I know my club path?

 

This is why I think the talk of a $3000 base price is garbage.  Way too high comparative to what's already in the market.

These are good questions each individual will have to answer for themselves.  If the base $3k doesn't include club data at all then Mevo + is actually providing some club data for $1k less. That said I haven't pulled the trigger on the Mevo + because 1) less space req'd would be better for me 2) ease of set up - if the LP has auto calibration that is a real benefit 3)  more accurate data with the LP. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, games said:

 

False.

Says who? You? There are numerous videos that show different online.

 

Radar isn't as accurate as a camera based system indoors. That is a pretty widely accepted fact.

 

I'd rather buy the most accurate option even if it costs me more.

 

1 hour ago, Indygolf21 said:

Agree. I just flat out don’t see the point in paying anything for data you can’t believe in. 

I've said this before (not sure if here or on another forum), but I think a lot of older people aren't really fully bought in on launch monitors because they don't believe that the info is really that accurate and look at it as more of a game.

 

In addition to that, many of them don't spend the time to research different options because they don't frequent the sites that the reviews are posted on, and just really don't care enough to look into it.

 

If you look at a launch monitor/sim as a fun game that isn't all that similar to real golf, 90% accuracy is more than enough.

 

The thing is these launch monitors are MUCH more useful than that, and they are really missing out by rejecting the idea that a computer can predict what your golf ball would've done in real life within a yard and a half of so of it's actual ball flight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2024 Barracuda Championship - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Barracuda Championship - Monday #1
      2024 Barracuda Championship - Tuesday #1
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Barclay Brown - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Ryan Brehm - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Marcel Schneider - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Pat Steffes - NorCal PGA Section Match Play Champ - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Mitchell Schow - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Ricardo Gouveia - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Todd Clements - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Gunner Wiebe - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Oliver Wilson - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Louis De Jager - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Mats Ege - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Andrew "Beef" Johnston - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Mike Lorenzo-Vera - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Jeong Weon Ko - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Alex Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Manuel Elivra - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Ian Gilligan - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Fabrizio Zanotti - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      TaylorMade putter covers - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Kevin Dougherty's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Camilo Villegas' custom Cameron putter - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Cameron putters - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Oliver Wilson's 1 off Odyssey putter - 2024 Barracuda Championship
       
       
       
       
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 19 replies
    • 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT) - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT) - Tuesday #1
      2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue - Wednesday #1
      2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue - Wednesday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Michael Johnson - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Thomas Walsh - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Chris Petefish - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Tag Ridings - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Austin Greaser - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Emilio Gonzalez - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Davis Lamb - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Brenden Jelley - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Dillion Board - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      John Augenstein - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
      Yi Cao - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
      Kris Ventura - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
      Mark Goetz - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
      Nelson Ledesma - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
      Morgan Hoffmann - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
      Tanner Gore - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Ryan Gerard's custom & 1 off Cameron putters - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
      L.A.B. Golf custom Mezz 1 - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 7 replies
    • 2024 ISCO Championship - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 ISCO Championship - Monday #1
      2024 ISCO Championship - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      James Nicholas - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Marcus Kinhult - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Adrien Saddier - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Stephen Stallings, Jr. - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Espen Kofstad - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Daniel Iceman - Kentucky PGA Section Champ - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Cooper Musselman - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Alex Goff - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Angel Hidalgo - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Kevin Streelman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Cameron putter - 2024 ISCO Championship
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 3 replies
    • 2024 John Deere Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 John Deere Classic - Monday #1
      2024 John Deere Classic - Monday #2
      2024 John Deere Classic - Tuesday #1
      2024 John Deere Classic - Tuesday #2
      2024 John Deere Classic - Tuesday #3
      2024 John Deere Classic - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Jason Day - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Josh Teater - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Michael Thorbjornsen - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Austin Smotherman - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Joseph Bramlett - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      C.T. Pan - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Anders Albertson - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Seung Yul Noh - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Blake Hathcoat - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Jimmy Stanger - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Cole Sherwood - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Anders Larson - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Bill Haas - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Tommy "2 Gloves" Gainey WITB – 2024 John Deere Classic
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Garrick Higgo - 2 Aretera shafts in the bag - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Jhonattan Vegas' custom Cameron putter - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putter - 2024 John Deere Classic
      2 new Super Stroke Marvel comics grips - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Swag blade putter - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Swag Golf - Joe Dirt covers - 2024 John Deere Classic
       
       
       
       
       
      • 3 replies
    • 2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Nate Lashley - WITB - 2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic
      Hayden Springer - WITB - 2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic
      Jackson Koivun - WITB - 2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic
      Callum Tarren - WITB - 2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic
      Luke Clanton - WITB - 2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Jason Dufner's custom 3-D printed Cobra putter - 2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 11 replies

×
×
  • Create New...