Bushnell Launch Pro Device with Foresight

[Cactus Jack]

12 minutes ago, cmatthews77 said:

 

Yes, it does seem like just paying $3k down on the GC3 and then financing the $4k difference is a smarter option than spending $3k and then still having to pay $70/mo for eternity...

 

The Dave Ramsey in me has to advocate against financing the purchase of a toy. Make a plan, work hard, keep saving, then enjoy the heck out of your purchase no strings attached. Sorry for the dad rant, there are just too many folks still paying off the tacos they bought 30 years ago with student loans. 

[LBB]

2 hours ago, Jamesheeney said:

But that is the reason to get the subscription. This market will flood in the next couple years and that will drive down subscription prices (not up). So the idea of paying 7k up front would be like paying 25k for a flat screen (which people did). Bets on subscription being cheaper.

If a crap ton of people buy the Bushnell LP and the subscription model, and the market does flood with launch monitor competition 5 years from now...what incentive does Bushnell have to lower their subscription prices for the LP?  They already got you by the balls...if anything, they might raise the subscription prices knowing you bought a piece of equipment that is useless without their subscription.

 

Sure...Bushnell might not be able to sell more LPs in 5 years with an expensive subscription model, but again, if your theory is right that the market will be flooded in 5 years, Bushnell will be focused on their next LM to stay competitive...not to drop their subscription prices to stay competitive.

[larciel]

I gotta admit, this is the MOST interested people I've ever seen for a LM. That alone makes this product a note-worthy

 

Also it brings up the chance that I'll be able to snag one for cheap in a few months!! haha

[Luke.Sutton]

22 minutes ago, LBB said:

If a crap ton of people buy the Bushnell LP and the subscription model, and the market does flood with launch monitor competition 5 years from now...what incentive does Bushnell have to lower their subscription prices for the LP?  They already got you by the balls...if anything, they might raise the subscription prices knowing you bought a piece of equipment that is useless without their subscription.

 

Sure...Bushnell might not be able to sell more LPs in 5 years with an expensive subscription model, but again, if your theory is right that the market will be flooded in 5 years, Bushnell will be focused on their next LM to stay competitive...not to drop their subscription prices to stay competitive.

People think the GC3 has lifetime support, free updates and as high of resale value as the GC2 in 10 years. I don’t think that’s going to happen at all…  No one is going to want to pay good money for a device from a company no longer in existence. Buying the LP doesn’t lock you in to that system at all. Just sell it, take what you can and move on. I’m much more concerned Bushnell just quits supporting the GC3 completely when the sale goes thru. Is there any value in getting the version from the company that bought the other company??? Try to call Bushnell with a problem with a 3 year old rangefinder, they will laugh at you. Pretty much the worst customer service I’ve encountered in the golf industry. That said I’m buying the LP because I think it’s a safer bet and I want the closest to a quad I can get for under $10k 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Luke.Sutton

[The Coug]

10 minutes ago, Luke.Sutton said:

People think the GC3 has lifetime support, free updates and as high of resale value as the GC2 in 10 years. I don’t think that’s going to happen at all…  No one is going to want to pay good money for a device from a company no longer in existence. Buying the LP doesn’t lock you in to that system at all. Just sell it, take what you can and move on. I’m much more concerned Bushnell just quits supporting the GC3 completely when the sale goes thru. Is there any value in getting the version from the company that bought the other company??? Try to call Bushnell with a problem with a 3 year old rangefinder, they will laugh at you. Pretty much the worst customer service I’ve encountered in the golf industry. That said I’m buying the LP because I think it’s a safer bet and I want the closest to a quad I can get for under $10k 

Foresight isn’t going anywhere. Vista wouldn’t pay as much as they did for Foresight and then dissolve all of their industry cred and notoriety. 

[Sieve29]

Adding my vote to the 'no' column, at least for now. If they develop FSX into even a remotely competitive software option, this becomes more attractive. As a cold weather user who likes to play simulated rounds in the winter, the software options / pricing just make no sense to me.  $800/yr for 10 courses -- and most likely 10 courses I have never heard of / have no real interest in playing -- plus $100-$200 for each individual course after that is crazy. Even if the graphics / physics were as good or better than the other options out there it would be crazy.

The Foresight hardware seems great. I would actually pay more than the price they're asking for the hardware, but I can't justify it with the software lock-ins.  Most likely going EYEXO I think.

[noodle24]

5 minutes ago, Sieve29 said:

Adding my vote to the 'no' column, at least for now. If they develop FSX into even a remotely competitive software option, this becomes more attractive. As a cold weather user who likes to play simulated rounds in the winter, the software options / pricing just make no sense to me.  $800/yr for 10 courses -- and most likely 10 courses I have never heard of / have no real interest in playing -- plus $100-$200 for each individual course after that is crazy. Even if the graphics / physics were as good or better than the other options out there it would be crazy.

The Foresight hardware seems great. I would actually pay more than the price they're asking for the hardware, but I can't justify it with the software lock-ins.  Most likely going EYEXO I think.

Exactly! Except... I'd say just give up on the sim software. Save the development costs and allow third party platforms like GS Pro and TGC 2019 where a community of people build the courses and work across several pieces of hardware.

[statepgm]

Trying to figure out why I’d go this route vs Skytrak. Club path plus AoA and (slightly?) higher accuracy. But for significantly higher upfront and ongoing cost. 
 

I haven’t done a ton of research here, so assume I’m missing something. 

[jcrews5508]

I wouldn't say slightly when referring to accuracy there's been plenty of test done that show sky track is very average.

[Indygolf21]

23 minutes ago, statepgm said:

Trying to figure out why I’d go this route vs Skytrak. Club path plus AoA and (slightly?) higher accuracy. But for significantly higher upfront and ongoing cost. 
 

I haven’t done a ton of research here, so assume I’m missing something. 

The difference in the accuracy of the data is pretty substantial. 

[Regoli]

How are you guys ordering these?? I've been trying all day to get ahold of a rep and nothing. Pissing me off!

[wagsgt]

On 9/28/2021 at 2:48 PM, herdtlocker said:

I've built out an entire hitting enclosure over the last few weeks all around the idea of picking up a GC3/LP as soon as they come out.  Hurry up Bushnell!! Take my money! Hitting into a blank void is getting old fast 😁

How high is your ceiling?

[karstens_ghost]

So one might ask… We all assume it's better than a SkyTrak. Should we assume it's as accurate as a Quad with fewer cameras?

[LBB]

2 minutes ago, karstens_ghost said:

So one might ask… We all assume it's better than a SkyTrak. Should we assume it's as accurate as a Quad with fewer cameras?

MGS's very small sample size of comparisons would lead you to believe that the ball data is very similar.  Didn't see anything posted on how one sticker club data would compare to 4 sticker quad club data.

 

Shouldn't be hard for one of the many possible reviewers to do a side by side comparison eventually.

[jcrews5508]

Each camera had a function the 4th camera is what did loft lie, impact location and face/path

[2four22]

7 hours ago, Ilgolfer said:

I just talked with Foresight as well. The one thing I took away is that the GC3 will NOT be compatible with 3rd part simulation software. He expressly said no TGC 2019 or GS Pro. So now I am wondering which 3rd party software the Launch Pro allows as I feel like it would be odd for Foresight to say no but Launch Pro to say yes. He also said FSX Play is coming out in a month or so and is basically improved physics and graphics but no extra courses included or anything like that. It would still be the 10 courses you get for the $7,000 would just transfer over. Kind of a bummer on the 3rd party software and depending on the Launch Pro flexibility, it may push people towards that.

 

Perhaps the LP will be compatible with E6 Connect?

[herdtlocker]

15 minutes ago, wagsgt said:

How high is your ceiling?

10 feet

[CStephenson17]

10 minutes ago, 2four22 said:

 

Perhaps the LP will be compatible with E6 Connect?

The guy I spoke with said it wasn’t going to be but he expects the software companies to back door it sometime like they did with the quad 

[TD22057]

Let's temporarily pretend the $3k option doesn't exist - at $7k the GC3 is competing w/ the the Uneekor QED.  https://shopindoorgolf.com/products/uneekor-qed-launch-monitor  Does anyone have thoughts on comparing those two?

[GolfTurkey]

Definitely a market for this.

 

All I can say from personal experience is that when you start questioning the accuracy of your launch monitor, its value rapidly approaches zero.

[Indygolf21]

20 minutes ago, TD22057 said:

Let's temporarily pretend the $3k option doesn't exist - at $7k the GC3 is competing w/ the the Uneekor QED.  https://shopindoorgolf.com/products/uneekor-qed-launch-monitor  Does anyone have thoughts on comparing those two?

I don’t know a ton about the accuracy of the QED, but it seems to offer similar ball and club parameters (though it looks like it doesn’t offer angle of attack, which is something I’m excited about with the GC3). I think it’s safe to assume that we know for sure the GC3 data is extremely accurate. So, at best, the QED offers similar parameters that are *as* or nearly as accurate as the GC3, but in a non-portable unit that has to be mounted overhead. 
 

So, unless I’m missing something, it seems to be a great monitor, but I’m not sure why you’d buy it over the GC3, which is the exact same price. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Indygolf21

[larciel]

To Bushnell and FS

 

Lower the gold to $500/year.

You just increased user base by 2.5 times, Total revenue 55%.

 

You're welcome.

[statepgm]

3 hours ago, Indygolf21 said:

The difference in the accuracy of the data is pretty substantial. 

Define substantial. Not a ton of great side by side comparisons of skytrak to quad (which I’m using as proxy for gc3), but those I see vary from wildly different to pretty close. 

[jak77]

1 hour ago, GolfTurkey said:

Definitely a market for this.

 

All I can say from personal experience is that when you start questioning the accuracy of your launch monitor, its value rapidly approaches zero.

 

This is the exact reason I just sold my SkyTrak on Ebay in anticipation of this.  Waaaay too many misreads and/or issues reading the shot at all.  Im pretty familiar with my numbers as I regularly see an instructor who uses Trackman.  I know when the numbers arent right, and I was getting far too many than I was comfortable with SkyTrak.  I do swing on the faster side which has been a well documented factor in the SkyTrak's ability to present accurate data.  That being said, I got a couple solid years with the SkyTrak and for the price, still a great device.  Im just ready to move on to something more accurate, and MGS' small data comparison is very promising.

 

Excited for this release, signed up for Foresight to contact me to pre-order the GC3.

[Indygolf21]

45 minutes ago, larciel said:

To Bushnell and FS

 

Lower the gold to $500/year.

You just increased user base by 2.5 times, Total revenue 55%.

 

You're welcome.

Are there that many people willing to spend thousands on a monitor and thousands more on a home set up who are swayed by $300/year? I just really doubt it.  

[larciel]

1 minute ago, Indygolf21 said:

Are there that many people willing to spend thousands on a monitor and thousands more on a home set up who are swayed by $300/year? I just really doubt it.  

That logic shouldn't be used.

 

You mean to tell me that if gold increases by 'only $300/year' to $1100/year people would not be swayed because they are already spending 'thousands of dollars'?

 

There's always price/demand ratio and I feel like they priced it wrong at $800/year.

[Indygolf21]

6 minutes ago, larciel said:

That logic shouldn't be used.

 

You mean to tell me that if gold increases by 'only $300/year' to $1100/year people would not be swayed because they are already spending 'thousands of dollars'?

 

There's always price/demand ratio and I feel like they priced it wrong at $800/year.

Uh, not arguing prices don’t matter. Simply arguing that in this context, I don’t think there’s a large enough number of people swayed by $300 to offset a 38% subscription price reduction. Saying the user base will increase by 2.5x simply by lowering the price $300 on a product that costs thousands is laughable. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Indygolf21

[gibbiesmalls]

11 hours ago, Krt22 said:

It's essentially giving you GC2+HMT data (minus face angle) with some basic simulator capability, for a few thousand bucks less.  I don't see what incentive they have to go much cheaper when they can't keep the much more expensive quad in stock

This is hardly HMT minus face angle.

 

HMT Provides many more valuable data points that the GC3 will not (In bold is what GC3 will provide):

 

1. Club Speed
2. Impact Location
3. Angle of Attack
4. Club Path
5. Face Angle
6. Lie Angle
7. Dynamic Loft
8. Closure Rate

 

If I were in the market for a LM now, based on today's pricing release of the GC3 and the Bushnell Pro along with the data points each will provide, I think a GC2 would be the obvious selection for me for a couple of reasons:

 

1. It's Open for 3rd Party Simulation software
2. GC2 are just as accurate as GCQuad (I have both and have tested them against each other)
3. A GC2 makes getting full club data an option. With a GC3, the only way to get a full club data points would be to upgrade to a quad or get a gc2/HMT. With a GC2 it's a hardware add on.

 

 

 

 

[CStephenson17]

41 minutes ago, gibbiesmalls said:

This is hardly HMT minus face angle.

 

HMT Provides many more valuable data points that the GC3 will not (In bold is what GC3 will provide):

 

1. Club Speed
2. Impact Location
3. Angle of Attack
4. Club Path
5. Face Angle
6. Lie Angle
7. Dynamic Loft
8. Closure Rate

 

If I were in the market for a LM now, based on today's pricing release of the GC3 and the Bushnell Pro along with the data points each will provide, I think a GC2 would be the obvious selection for me for a couple of reasons:

 

1. It's Open for 3rd Party Simulation software
2. GC2 are just as accurate as GCQuad (I have both and have tested them against each other)
3. A GC2 makes getting full club data an option. With a GC3, the only way to get a full club data points would be to upgrade to a quad or get a gc2/HMT. With a GC2 it's a hardware add on.

 

 

 

 

Just out of curiosity, what would you do with those extra data points? 
 

I just don’t understand why the average golfer would need them. I’m a +4 and I’m going with the silver package mainly because I converted my theater room and want to be able to hit some. Don’t care much about playing and I for sure don’t care about much else other than ball speed and carry if I’m not getting a lesson. 
 

seems to me the average golfer, who is the target market, doesn’t need that and can save a few thousand by getting this over GC2 and HMT

[Cactus Jack]

36 minutes ago, gibbiesmalls said:

This is hardly HMT minus face angle.

 

HMT Provides many more valuable data points that the GC3 will not (In bold is what GC3 will provide):

 

1. Club Speed
2. Impact Location
3. Angle of Attack
4. Club Path
5. Face Angle
6. Lie Angle
7. Dynamic Loft
8. Closure Rate

 

If I were in the market for a LM now, based on today's pricing release of the GC3 and the Bushnell Pro along with the data points each will provide, I think a GC2 would be the obvious selection for me for a couple of reasons:

 

1. It's Open for 3rd Party Simulation software
2. GC2 are just as accurate as GCQuad (I have both and have tested them against each other)
3. A GC2 makes getting full club data an option. With a GC3, the only way to get a full club data points would be to upgrade to a quad or get a gc2/HMT. With a GC2 it's a hardware add on.

 

 

 

 

 

The GC2 is awesome, but considering second hand prices for a GC2+HMT combo command ~$8K, the decision isn't really clear cut. Also, considering only certain models work with Apple products, dated tech/connectivity, the potential need for new batteries and flash modules units, the need to purchase software or pay a transfer fee driving the cost up, and the units are no longer supported make the decision even less clear. 

 

However, what's tempting is the GC2 is a beast, the functionally is as good as anything on the market. In a way, Foresight almost made it too good. So much so, I'm sure they couldn't wait to get rid of it as it had to eat into their Quad sales to some degree. If the second hand prices fall into $5-6K range, including software, I'd say it's a slam dunk, but until then it feels like an expensive and potentially risky proposition.