Bushnell Launch Pro Device with Foresight

[RGlaze978]

Just gonna say that I called this originally... price point is bang on. 

 

Give me a base price of $3,000 with a subscription, plus unlockable club data and I am in. This thing needs AoA, clubhead speed, and path / face-to-path to be successful. If not the Mevo+ is still the winner. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by RGlaze978

[karstens_ghost]

1 hour ago, RGlaze978 said:

Just gonna say that I called this originally... price point is bang on. 

 

Give me a base price of $3,000 with a subscription, plus unlockable club data and I am in. This thing needs AoA, clubhead speed, and path / face-to-path to be successful. If not the Mevo+ is still the winner. 

 

It's still going to win if it's decent in small spaces. Most people at this price point aren't going to have enough ball flight room in a non-interference area with metal/electricity to make radar super accurate.

 

I have an original Mevo, and this is my problem.

 

I'll be upgrading to this if it's anywhere close, because optical wins the day indoors.

[herdtlocker]

Per the Bushnell info: "The Launch Pro combines proprietary infrared with three high-speed, high-resolution cameras to deliver tour-level performance and accuracy for every golfer." The tidbit about using Infrared is interesting.  From Foresights info on GC2 and Quad, it sounds like only the Quad uses Infrared, whereas the GC2 uses flash? So maybe they're utilizing the infrared tech for clubhead data?

 

From my spot, this product seems perfect for me.  I've been working on getting a home setup for awhile now, and have been looking for something between GC2 and a Skytrack.  I'm hopeful this will fit that gap.

[BrewingSim]

2 hours ago, karstens_ghost said:

 

It's still going to win if it's decent in small spaces. Most people at this price point aren't going to have enough ball flight room in a non-interference area with metal/electricity to make radar super accurate.

 

I have an original Mevo, and this is my problem.

 

I'll be upgrading to this if it's anywhere close, because optical wins the day indoors.

 

I'm working on a new build and have a roughly 14 foot wide by basically as far back as I need in depth with 8'10" height in the basement.  I can put the tee box as far back as I want as long as I can still hit the screen then would have another at least 20' behind that.  In that situation which would you recommend, radar or photo?  From what I have seen the Uneekor eye XO seems like the best possible unit with its combination of measured data and awesome video/picture capture of club head and impact, but it doesn't appear I have the ceiling height.  GC Quad just seems crazy overpriced especially if you add the club head function.  Skytrak is just old plus the delay sucks and Mevo plus seems to have some issues.  Would you recommend the new Bushnell/Foresight camera system or the Follswing radar system?  Or would it be helpful to get the benefits of the camera with the Bushnell/Foresight unit and get a cheap radar system like the G10 to combine the best of both worlds.

[over7par]

8 hours ago, JDIL said:

FWIW, someone in an FB group claims to have seen the price on actual printed company materials. $2,999 is the price.

My pro contacted his Bushnell guy and this is the price he was quoted as well. No other information on when it's exactly coming or any other costs involved.

[karstens_ghost]

1 hour ago, over7par said:

My pro contacted his Bushnell guy and this is the price he was quoted as well. No other information on when it's exactly coming or any other costs involved.

 

That's close enough of a confirmation for me.

 

Now, where are those sub-1000 reply guys?

[karstens_ghost]

2 hours ago, BrewingSim said:

 

I'm working on a new build and have a roughly 14 foot wide by basically as far back as I need in depth with 8'10" height in the basement.  I can put the tee box as far back as I want as long as I can still hit the screen then would have another at least 20' behind that.  In that situation which would you recommend, radar or photo?  From what I have seen the Uneekor eye XO seems like the best possible unit with its combination of measured data and awesome video/picture capture of club head and impact, but it doesn't appear I have the ceiling height.  GC Quad just seems crazy overpriced especially if you add the club head function.  Skytrak is just old plus the delay sucks and Mevo plus seems to have some issues.  Would you recommend the new Bushnell/Foresight camera system or the Follswing radar system?  Or would it be helpful to get the benefits of the camera with the Bushnell/Foresight unit and get a cheap radar system like the G10 to combine the best of both worlds.

 

Combining systems is never going to work. Just 8'10" height? Can that be changed? 9'6 is sort of a minimum...

 

You'll probably want to see where your budget ends up. GCQuad is $14k, and then you have Kit at $5k and this at $3k… all PLUS Subscriptions.

 

If you have a lot of space, the TW one might be good with radar. Bush is probably #2, pending real-world on both.

[hammersia]

1 hour ago, karstens_ghost said:

 

That's close enough of a confirmation for me.

 

Now, where are those sub-1000 reply guys?

I don’t recall my exact words 

[GolfTurkey]

At $3K I'm all in, provided that only data points and not accuracy are sacrificed vs the Quad/GC2.

[James495738]

13 hours ago, radiman said:

Lol, what's your definition of good enough?  Ball speeds being misread by up to 10mph?  Spin being different by hundreds of RPM?  

Lol, 10mph would not be accurate enough! However, a ST is way more accurate than that. You will get an occaisonal misread but I dont think I have ever seen a 10mph error. On the other hand if I mishit the ball (especially irons off a mat) I routinely see 10mph ball speed changes.

 

A few hundred rpm of spin (even 1k) isnt going to make much difference:

Assuming 140mph ball speed, 15deg launch, 2000 rpm of spin gets you 227 carry and 253 total. 3000 rpm spin gets you 224 carry and 244 total.

Assuming 115mph ball speed, 21deg launch, 5000 rpm of spin gets you 165 carry and 173 total. 6000rpm spin gets you 160 carry and 166 total.

 

If you are an elite golfer this might be noticeable, but the golfers variance will typically be much greater than this.

 

Source for distances:

https://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/

 

 

[hammersia]

Bit disappointed if this 3000 dollars price turns out to be accurate. As I say, all very well a few of us propeller heads getting excited to see what the exact spec and performance is, but this is not "consumer level", that's ridiculous. 

 

[BrewingSim]

7 hours ago, karstens_ghost said:

 

Combining systems is never going to work. Just 8'10" height? Can that be changed? 9'6 is sort of a minimum...

 

You'll probably want to see where your budget ends up. GCQuad is $14k, and then you have Kit at $5k and this at $3k… all PLUS Subscriptions.

 

If you have a lot of space, the TW one might be good with radar. Bush is probably #2, pending real-world on both.

 

Not combine them by having them on at the same time, but hit some shots on one then shut it off and fire up the other unit and compare the numbers to see if they are similar.  There are plenty of guys on youtube who have something like a Skytrak and a Mevo plus.  The R10 is just so stinking cheap it wouldn't be bad to have to play around with a little inside and very portable to take to the range.  I was pretty set on getting a Mevo plus because of its inside/sim capabilities along with its portability to take it to the range until I read about this Bushnell unit, but if I can get a more accurate indoor unit that runs pretty good simulation for only $1k more then add something like the R10 to take to the range I may go that direction.

 

As for the height I had a cheap Optishot set up in the basement at my old house with 3 inches less ceiling height and could hit driver even though I'm 6'1".  I've taken the driver down in this basement and have plenty of clearance.  There are several enclosures on different sites that are only 8'6" in height.  I think one of those will work perfect in my space.

[James495738]

24 minutes ago, hammersia said:

Bit disappointed if this 3000 dollars price turns out to be accurate. As I say, all very well a few of us propeller heads getting excited to see what the exact spec and performance is, but this is not "consumer level", that's ridiculous. 

 

If it is 3k and gives face, path, AoA it will be an amazing device for a decent minority of users, and would justify the extra cost over a Skytrak. However, like you say this isnt a 'consumer level' price.

 

If it is 3k and doesnt give actionable club metrics it seems pretty pointless to me...

[BrewingSim]

31 minutes ago, hammersia said:

Bit disappointed if this 3000 dollars price turns out to be accurate. As I say, all very well a few of us propeller heads getting excited to see what the exact spec and performance is, but this is not "consumer level", that's ridiculous. 

 

 

What do you consider "consumer level?"  It's much more affordable than a Quad.  Skytrak and Mevo plus are probably the 2 current consumer level sims and this isn't much more than them.  The thing that could be the game changer is the R10 if it proves to be accurate.  It's barely more than an Optishot.

[hammersia]

13 minutes ago, BrewingSim said:

 

What do you consider "consumer level?"  It's much more affordable than a Quad.  Skytrak and Mevo plus are probably the 2 current consumer level sims and this isn't much more than them.  The thing that could be the game changer is the R10 if it proves to be accurate.  It's barely more than an Optishot.

500 is consumer.

2,000 is hobbyist.

10,000 is pro.

ANSI standards. 

[JMG71]

8 hours ago, karstens_ghost said:

Now, where are those sub-1000 reply guys?

Well, I for one figured 1-1.5k and I’m right here. 😀

 

3k does seem like a fair price for a quality product but while they might have a blast with it I doubt it will really increase the existing semi premium market and doubt replacing the Launch Pro in less than in 3-5 years.

 

Assuming 3k price, 1k cost and $25/month plan, to achieve similar revenue with Garmin R10 pricing and $600 a 5 years span would just require x3 initial unit sales (x6 for a 3 years span).

 

The Garmin R10 unit sales (without further comparisons) at $600 will show the market size and tell if 3k was the way to go or not. Will the Garmin R10 outsell Launch Pro by x3 units or more? To me it’s a no brainer but just keep the R10 sales stats away from Bushnell’s top executives and all good. 😀

[Rory4Pres]

As a regular joe, scratch golfer that has hit balls in my garage for the past couple of years waiting for a good option to come out in the simulator world, $3k is at the top of the range I'd prefer to spend.  More importantly, I hate monthly/annual fees, so those better be affordable, otherwise I'll just throw on my winter gear and go play outside with handwarmers in my pockets.  

 

I've actually been waiting 4+ years for the right simulator to come along that works in a small garage space.  I can certainly wait another year or two if this bushnell and full swing come with high subscription service fees.  

 

**Fake golf isn't worth real golf money**

[JDIL]

3 hours ago, hammersia said:

Bit disappointed if this 3000 dollars price turns out to be accurate. As I say, all very well a few of us propeller heads getting excited to see what the exact spec and performance is, but this is not "consumer level", that's ridiculous. 

 

Consumers are buying complete bags for $5,000 at Club Champion etc.  Consumers doesn't automatically mean Dicks Sporting Goods. Compared to GCQ and Trackman, at 3k if it can provide some key CH data, it'll be useful.

[Copacetic]

Very surprised at the high price, if true would guess it’s a launch rrp and after the few thousand people willing to pay that much have got one, it will drop quickly to 2-2500. Of course it could be that at 3k it’s what is put in every driving range and teaching pro setup and that’s a big market too. Just doesn’t chime with there ‘personal launch monitor tag’. 
 

id pay 3k if I was building a home setup, but for use in a net and at the range the amount of use wouldn’t justly it. 

[RGlaze978]

I feel like 3K slots into consumer - the people dropping $5K at Club Champion is a nice analogy. Golf is expensive. 

[jcrews5508]

"The Garmin R10 unit sales (without further comparisons) at $600 will show the market size and tell if 3k was the way to go or not. Will the Garmin R10 outsell Launch Pro by x3 units or more? To me it’s a no brainer but just keep the R10 sales stats away from Bushnell’s top executives and all good"

 

I would argue that it may not be that clear cut. The garmin like the Mevo and Rapsodo still needs a fair amount of space and will just not be options for a lot of people. For outdoor use I already have a Rapsodo and it does fine it is however horrible indoors as I don't have the space. If the Bushnell can excel indoors something much easier done with a camera based system it could attract a different audience.

[karstens_ghost]

Skytrak has been there for 7 years around 2k, and with covid, far more people will be interested in more permanent indoor setups.

 

Indoor golf is going to be a big, big deal. It's not all fully driven out of the US, either. Despite always thinking it's the centre of golf, sometimes it is, but consumer trends worldwide are really looking for something they can "play" at home. Some places, this will be the equivalent of 10-12 rounds of golf, so no one will sneeze at that.

 

Like I said, this is a real winner if you can connect it to your PS5. If not, as long as you can do a decent job of simulating games, it's going to do very, very well. Skytrak had a free run at the gap between $500 and $14k for a long time, and they sat on it. Granted, they had orders out their ears for a while, but now there's going to be a lot more choice. I'm looking forward to it.

 

I'll wait for initial reviews to come in, but I see this as my xmas present.

[Karazy]

On 8/11/2021 at 10:21 PM, over7par said:

My pro contacted his Bushnell guy and this is the price he was quoted as well. No other information on when it's exactly coming or any other costs involved.

That was disclosed at their investor call. Preorders are in September and it launches in October 

[kahilainen]

Seems that this might compare quite a bit with the Mevo+ so a price comparison is relevant.

[Frankensteins Monster]

On 8/10/2021 at 11:19 AM, Stuart_G said:

 

But it doesn't tell you that there wont be blur either - which is what you seem to be arguing and fairly certain of (unless I'm mistaken).   The only difference here is that you seem to making assumptions about the max shutter speed and I'm not.  

 

Also, the generic home simulator setup is not going to come close to laboratory lighting conditions - so expecting performance to be close to the spec'd max shutter speed isn't really reasonable.  Likely the reason GC2/Quad went to non-visible lighting and strobes - and also why skytrack struggles in some lighting conditions.

 

 

 

You can have one FPS using a shutter of 1/10,000 and the ball would appear to be frozen in time. 240fps, with a 1/10,000 shutter, would create 240 images of a frozen ball for one second capture. Motion stoppage, without blur, is solely dependent on the shutter speed. A flash could substitute for a shutter, but that's not in the scope of this launch monitor.

[Frankensteins Monster]

On 8/12/2021 at 12:41 AM, karstens_ghost said:

 

That's close enough of a confirmation for me.

 

Now, where are those sub-1000 reply guys?

Contacting ebay to see if they can cancel their auctions because their unit "sold locally." 🤣

[Stuart_G]

34 minutes ago, Frankensteins Monster said:

You can have one FPS using a shutter of 1/10,000 and the ball would appear to be frozen in time.

 

I could but it would be pointless if that faster shutter speed resulted in a picture that wasn't bright enough to "see" the ball clearly enough to analyze the motion.   Shutter speed will be effectively limited by light levels that the unit is designed to support.

 

And the number of frames the ball is actually in motion in the camera's field of view is what's important, not the number of frames in one second.

 

But then that was already covered in the discussion so not really sure of the reason for your post?

Edited August 13, 2021 by Stuart_G

[hammersia]

58 minutes ago, Frankensteins Monster said:

Contacting ebay to see if they can cancel their auctions because their unit "sold locally." 🤣

Not at all. Just digging it out of the dirt.

[Frankensteins Monster]

1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

 

I could but it would be pointless if that faster shutter speed resulted in a picture that wasn't bright enough to "see" the ball clearly enough to analyze the motion.   Shutter speed will be effectively limited by light levels that the unit is designed to support.

 

And the number of frames the ball is actually in motion in the camera's field of view is what's important, not the number of frames in one second.

 

But then that was already covered in the discussion so not really sure of the reason for your post?

Of course it would be pointless if the area wasn't bright enough. That's a given and of no relevance to the discussion. With sensor technology, 1/8,000 to 1/10,000, in decently lit room, or outside, is a simple task to get low noise images.

 

Of course it's about capturing the in the camera's frame. That's a given.

 

Because for some reason, from what I've read, you think it's all about FPS when stopping motion. It's not.

[Stuart_G]

3 minutes ago, Frankensteins Monster said:

Of course it would be pointless if the area wasn't bright enough. That's a given and of no relevance to the discussion. With sensor technology, 1/8,000 to 1/10,000, in decently lit room, or outside, is a simple task to get low noise images.

 

it's very relevant to the targeted market.   Most sim rooms are intentionally not "decently lighted" to get the most out of the projected display on the impact screen.