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Bushnell Launch Pro Device with Foresight


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1 hour ago, hammersia said:

I don't personally understand wanting to pay anything for Sim golf... the few times I've tried it, it's nothing like golf golf. No rough, straight through trees, blast it anywhere, all lies dead flat, no mud on the ball..... what's the point?

 

I'll get my coat. 

And you can skip putting, I fail to see a downside here. 🙂

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40 minutes ago, Rory4Pres said:

$3k with a driving range and a few free courses and I'm buying it.... $3k plus another $1-3k for software and I'll pass.  

 

Let's be real, these things are going to be a depreciating nightmare.  5 years from now, your $3-6k investment will be worth 1/4 that (or whatever) and there will be better new options out there for half the price.  

 

These software companies just need to sell courses ale carte. We don't need 200 courses.  

I'm in complete, 100% agreement with Rory4pres.  Who knows what else will be announced 18-24 months from now.  Maybe Skytrak will finally release a skytrak sequel.  Maybe Garmin might release this photometric LM unit they have a patent on--- https://patents.google.com/patent/US20200398138A1/en?assignee=garmin&oq=assignee:garmin&sort=new

 

As flawed as the R10 appears to be, Garmin does seem to do a decent job of keeping its golf  product and software affordable.  In fact, they mention it several times in that patent filing how they want to build a "low cost" photo LM.

 

If Foresight is going to charge another 1-3k for software, its simply too much.  I'll keep waiting...

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14 minutes ago, glfr9412 said:

I'm guessing when they say fall release they mean letting people pre-order these things for Christmas kind of like gaming consoles have done for years?

 

"Coming this fall" sounds so promising until you realize fall doesn't end until Dec. 21st.

supposed to ship to customers in October.

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2 hours ago, glfr9412 said:

I'm guessing when they say fall release they mean letting people pre-order these things for Christmas kind of like gaming consoles have done for years?

 

"Coming this fall" sounds so promising until you realize fall doesn't end until Dec. 21st.

According to the head of Bushnell Golf, they will begin accepting preorders in September, with deliveries in October (from an investor's conference in July).

I just want accurate distance, direction & shot shape hitting into a net or a screen. That's how I'll improve my swing.

My R10 has problems with direction & shot shape, but the golf sims are a lot more fun than just a driving range app.

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There are a lot of ignorant opinions in this thread

 

I find it weird that people can justify a $10k initiation fee to a country club and $6k in dues every year after, but $4k for a launch monitor that will actually help you get better and will last 10 years is too much money.

 

To the person saying something better will be out in 18 months and your launch monitor will be worth 1/4th of the price - as of 6 months ago, people were still paying $6,000 for used foresight GC2's that utilize technology that was originally released 10 years ago.

 

Foresight designed and developed this unit and Bushnell is manufacturing and distributing it.

 

In other words, this is the latest release from the best camera based launch monitor company in the game. People can say what they want, but radar based launch monitors are just not as accurate when measuring indoors or measuring club data in general. 

 

There are plenty of people that would be more than willing to pay $4k to $6k for a camera based system that provides accurate ball and club data. As of right now the cheapest launch monitor that provides accurate club data costs $10k+.

 

On 8/14/2021 at 5:25 AM, Copacetic said:

That’s interesting. ‘Core consumer’ and off course golf segment is very different language to their marketing of launch monitor for all. This new language very much screams ‘overpriced’ or at least professionally priced, the 3k seems a more likely price based on this language. They could do with letting their marketing department know. 

 

A $3k launch monitor is not something a teaching pro should be using to give lessons. 9 times out of 10 a teaching pro is going to be focusing on the club data - which no $3k launch monitor currently measures. Trackman and GCQuad are professional level launch monitors. The "core consumer" is exactly what it sounds like, their CORE CONSUMER, aka the people they sell most of their product to aka the general public. Golf is an expensive activity. People that like to fish spend $50k+ on boats. $5k is really not a huge investment if you are an avid golfer.

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I've been following this and the R10 thread for some time, and it continues to amazes me how many people seriously believe that the R10 can/should be compared to the Bushnell, GC2/4, Trackman or even the Mevo+...

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2 hours ago, DinoSpumoni228 said:

 

There are a lot of ignorant opinions in this thread

 

I find it weird that people can justify a $10k initiation fee to a country club and $6k in dues every year after, but $4k for a launch monitor that will actually help you get better and will last 10 years is too much money.

 

To the person saying something better will be out in 18 months and your launch monitor will be worth 1/4th of the price - as of 6 months ago, people were still paying $6,000 for used foresight GC2's that utilize technology that was originally released 10 years ago.

 

Foresight designed and developed this unit and Bushnell is manufacturing and distributing it.

 

In other words, this is the latest release from the best camera based launch monitor company in the game. People can say what they want, but radar based launch monitors are just not as accurate when measuring indoors or measuring club data in general. 

 

There are plenty of people that would be more than willing to pay $4k to $6k for a camera based system that provides accurate ball and club data. As of right now the cheapest launch monitor that provides accurate club data costs $10k+.

 

 

A $3k launch monitor is not something a teaching pro should be using to give lessons. 9 times out of 10 a teaching pro is going to be focusing on the club data - which no $3k launch monitor currently measures. Trackman and GCQuad are professional level launch monitors. The "core consumer" is exactly what it sounds like, their CORE CONSUMER, aka the people they sell most of their product to aka the general public. Golf is an expensive activity. People that like to fish spend $50k+ on boats. $5k is really not a huge investment if you are an avid golfer.

 

I just don't want to have to pay $3k for the device, then another $3k for the software so that I can use it.  Honestly it would be easier to stomach if they just said the thing costs $6k as an all in one package.  I just hate the Foresight business model of selling a device for one price then charging thousands extra to unlock all the features.  Just look at the GC Quad.  It's $11k for the unit, then $3k for the software, then $4k if you want the club data, then another $2.5 if you want putting.  By the time you get the thing to work like its designed you could nearly have bought 2 of the base units.

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4 hours ago, DinoSpumoni228 said:

 

There are a lot of ignorant opinions in this thread

 

I find it weird that people can justify a $10k initiation fee to a country club and $6k in dues every year after, but $4k for a launch monitor that will actually help you get better and will last 10 years is too much money.

 

To the person saying something better will be out in 18 months and your launch monitor will be worth 1/4th of the price - as of 6 months ago, people were still paying $6,000 for used foresight GC2's that utilize technology that was originally released 10 years ago.

 

Foresight designed and developed this unit and Bushnell is manufacturing and distributing it.

 

In other words, this is the latest release from the best camera based launch monitor company in the game. People can say what they want, but radar based launch monitors are just not as accurate when measuring indoors or measuring club data in general. 

 

There are plenty of people that would be more than willing to pay $4k to $6k for a camera based system that provides accurate ball and club data. As of right now the cheapest launch monitor that provides accurate club data costs $10k+.

 

 

A $3k launch monitor is not something a teaching pro should be using to give lessons. 9 times out of 10 a teaching pro is going to be focusing on the club data - which no $3k launch monitor currently measures. Trackman and GCQuad are professional level launch monitors. The "core consumer" is exactly what it sounds like, their CORE CONSUMER, aka the people they sell most of their product to aka the general public. Golf is an expensive activity. People that like to fish spend $50k+ on boats. $5k is really not a huge investment if you are an avid golfer.

 

There are parts of the world that don't have fees like you're talking, FYI.

 

For example, I pay $1100/year for membership - golf for a year with 12 free rounds at other courses. In US terms, that's about US$750.

 

Golf isn't just this rich person thing.

 

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As stated above:

 

- It's 3k for FSX on the site for a new license

- I don't expect that FSX will be the only option, like TGC2019 might be there for $900 like ST

- I do expect they're going to look for subscription revenue as their "margin", or most of it.

 

Don't get too fixated on 3k; it's probably just going to be some sort of "tier". But it's unlikely that it'll just be $2999 and that's all she wrote.

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7 hours ago, DinoSpumoni228 said:

 

There are a lot of ignorant opinions in this thread

 

I find it weird that people can justify a $10k initiation fee to a country club and $6k in dues every year after, but $4k for a launch monitor that will actually help you get better and will last 10 years is too much money.

 

To the person saying something better will be out in 18 months and your launch monitor will be worth 1/4th of the price - as of 6 months ago, people were still paying $6,000 for used foresight GC2's that utilize technology that was originally released 10 years ago.

 

Foresight designed and developed this unit and Bushnell is manufacturing and distributing it.

 

In other words, this is the latest release from the best camera based launch monitor company in the game. People can say what they want, but radar based launch monitors are just not as accurate when measuring indoors or measuring club data in general. 

 

There are plenty of people that would be more than willing to pay $4k to $6k for a camera based system that provides accurate ball and club data. As of right now the cheapest launch monitor that provides accurate club data costs $10k+.

 

 

A $3k launch monitor is not something a teaching pro should be using to give lessons. 9 times out of 10 a teaching pro is going to be focusing on the club data - which no $3k launch monitor currently measures. Trackman and GCQuad are professional level launch monitors. The "core consumer" is exactly what it sounds like, their CORE CONSUMER, aka the people they sell most of their product to aka the general public. Golf is an expensive activity. People that like to fish spend $50k+ on boats. $5k is really not a huge investment if you are an avid golfer.

Basically what I’ve been saying.
 

Gotta pay to play. 

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12 hours ago, DinoSpumoni228 said:

 

There are a lot of ignorant opinions in this thread

 

I find it weird that people can justify a $10k initiation fee to a country club and $6k in dues every year after, but $4k for a launch monitor that will actually help you get better and will last 10 years is too much money.

 

To the person saying something better will be out in 18 months and your launch monitor will be worth 1/4th of the price - as of 6 months ago, people were still paying $6,000 for used foresight GC2's that utilize technology that was originally released 10 years ago.

 

Foresight designed and developed this unit and Bushnell is manufacturing and distributing it.

 

In other words, this is the latest release from the best camera based launch monitor company in the game. People can say what they want, but radar based launch monitors are just not as accurate when measuring indoors or measuring club data in general. 

 

There are plenty of people that would be more than willing to pay $4k to $6k for a camera based system that provides accurate ball and club data. As of right now the cheapest launch monitor that provides accurate club data costs $10k+.

 

 

A $3k launch monitor is not something a teaching pro should be using to give lessons. 9 times out of 10 a teaching pro is going to be focusing on the club data - which no $3k launch monitor currently measures. Trackman and GCQuad are professional level launch monitors. The "core consumer" is exactly what it sounds like, their CORE CONSUMER, aka the people they sell most of their product to aka the general public. Golf is an expensive activity. People that like to fish spend $50k+ on boats. $5k is really not a huge investment if you are an avid golfer.

Couple of obvious points that maybe sound slightly ignorant.....:

 

1) launch monitors probably don't last ten years, gc2 is fairly reliable, others less so

2) what measured club data this unit produces is unknown, but it seems likely to be just clubhead speed 

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15 hours ago, DinoSpumoni228 said:

 

There are a lot of ignorant opinions in this thread

 

I find it weird that people can justify a $10k initiation fee to a country club and $6k in dues every year after, but $4k for a launch monitor that will actually help you get better and will last 10 years is too much money.

 

To the person saying something better will be out in 18 months and your launch monitor will be worth 1/4th of the price - as of 6 months ago, people were still paying $6,000 for used foresight GC2's that utilize technology that was originally released 10 years ago.

 

Foresight designed and developed this unit and Bushnell is manufacturing and distributing it.

 

In other words, this is the latest release from the best camera based launch monitor company in the game. People can say what they want, but radar based launch monitors are just not as accurate when measuring indoors or measuring club data in general. 

 

There are plenty of people that would be more than willing to pay $4k to $6k for a camera based system that provides accurate ball and club data. As of right now the cheapest launch monitor that provides accurate club data costs $10k+.

 

 

A $3k launch monitor is not something a teaching pro should be using to give lessons. 9 times out of 10 a teaching pro is going to be focusing on the club data - which no $3k launch monitor currently measures. Trackman and GCQuad are professional level launch monitors. The "core consumer" is exactly what it sounds like, their CORE CONSUMER, aka the people they sell most of their product to aka the general public. Golf is an expensive activity. People that like to fish spend $50k+ on boats. $5k is really not a huge investment if you are an avid golfer.

Come on man, do you really think a big group of us would be complaining about $3k in software if we were dropping $10k + $6k/year on a private club membership?  

 

Secondly, when you are out there on the freshly cut & rolled putting green right before your round, fresh air and sunshine hitting your face, how many times do you wish you were home hitting off a mat in an enclosed room?  

 

Lastly, while I agree with you on the depreciation of the gc2 from 10 years ago, that was then.  Depreciation is all about competition and supply vs demand.  For the past 10 years, there really hasn't been much competition, hints why they've held their value.  But over the NEXT 10 years, there's going to be a lot more competition and a lot more supply in the marketplace.  In the past 3 months, we've gone from seeing Skytraks and Mevo+'s being flipped for $2600-2900 to both sitting on the BST thread for $1700 because of the arrival of the full swing and bushnell pro launch.  While 1/4 value is probably wrong, my point was it'll depreciation A LOT, and I still think that holds true on these simulators going into the next 5 to 10 years.

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6 hours ago, RGlaze978 said:

I'd like to know where you guys are getting country club memberships for $10K... nothing in my area is less than $65K currently and the one my wife wants is about $150K. 😅

God golf in the US must be very different to here in Australia. Seems much more accessible. I pay about $2000 for a membership a year. 

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2 hours ago, wolfyand1 said:

God golf in the US must be very different to here in Australia. Seems much more accessible. I pay about $2000 for a membership a year. 

 

This I can answer.

 

Yes, golf in America is basically a theme park experience. Most of the time, you have "munis" owned by cities and run by their parks department, or you have commercial courses (for profit business) or private-member clubs/syndicates that are exclusive and not open to the public.

 

Of those three, cities are usually the cheapest, and run at even.

 

Courses in the US are designed around the golf being at-cost, and margins built on alcohol sales & electric buggy rentals (often compulsory). You get your entrance ticket, you go for 5 hours, you finish. Usually they don't even bother with scorecards being "turned in". Everyone plays stroke because that's all they know.

 

Of course where we are, and I'm speaking from NZ but I know it's much the same in Aussie, most golf courses are "club" based, where usually the public is welcome, except on Saturdays at most clubs where it's pretty much member-only day because it's so busy.

 

In general, you join a club at an annual rate, and you get to play golf as a membership, similar to the US in a "gym membership". You get a tee time, and often you don't pay anything, or if you are on member day there may be a $5 stableford competition, etc., and the prize is often a meat tray, like ribs or chicken breast or whatever… which is something that still to this day is weird. Meat is a prize? Yep; it is here. Memberships in NZ run from about 1000 to 2000, with a few higher end courses charging $3000 a year, but they're posh.

 

In the US, I was paying $50-$70/round. Here, it's walk up of US$20-30, and that's if you don't have a reciprocal game. I get 12 free games a year at three different courses, and there are plenty of others that literally have honesty boxes on days to put your $20 in, or you can pay from your phone, because the proshop is all closed.

 

It's a real mind bender. In the US, equipment is a hobby. In NZ, equipment is the most expensive and difficult part of the game. Old iron sets in decent condition can often bring 50% of retail after 10 years.

 

Driving ranges are not as prevalent because people don't have problems getting on course. Driving ranges are also not revenue centres; many courses have them, but they prefer you didn't use them much because the one guy running the shop has to go drag the balls. Most course ranges, if they're full size here, use "lost" balls as their inventory.

 

And everyone knows that unless it's a specified stroke round for some odd reason, you know to pick up on zero stableford points. We can all do that because the national computerised system will tell you your handicap, and how many strokes you get because you *always* turn in a card. You don't get around it, really. Sure, you can go have a practice hit late afternoon, and sure, you can bugger off without turning it in, but it's encouraged you always turn in your cards.

 

Unlike the US, we have city "leagues" for inter club competition. There are multiple levels of scratch match comps, along with a year-round mid capper league where your handicap must add up as a team, and you play head to head match ryder-cup style. Because it's all cap based, the games are tight just by the law of averages, and all of these matches and comps are generally free to compete in as your member fees pay a levy to the region.

 

In the US, there's very, very little amateur competitive golf. In our area, we have 3 divisions of scratch, 2 divisions of indexed, individual champs, junior/age champs, women's scratch and multi-level index match play -- along with your Saturday and Sunday stablefords and several weekday offerings for $5-$15.

 

It's really a shame. Imagine how much city-league golf could be played in the US if it wasn't all super-profit driven? I guess no one cares because the courses in the US are full all the time.

 

Very different environments, and I'm so glad I'm here because participating in these kinds of games has made golf so much more fun than it was in the US. I don't miss the boring play there at all.

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I say all of this, but it relates to the Bushnell. These PLMs at 2-5k are the future, especially in the US. More play at home saves a lot of driving range dollars. In places like NZ, we still occasionally see GC2 as "new technology". This type of device will finally be usable where trackman and GCQuad were just not feasible.

 

THat's why I have such hope for this level device. If it's good enough, it'll be a revolution here.

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1 hour ago, karstens_ghost said:

 

This I can answer.

 

Yes, golf in America is basically a theme park experience. Most of the time, you have "munis" owned by cities and run by their parks department, or you have commercial courses (for profit business) or private-member clubs/syndicates that are exclusive and not open to the public.

 

Of those three, cities are usually the cheapest, and run at even.

 

Courses in the US are designed around the golf being at-cost, and margins built on alcohol sales & electric buggy rentals (often compulsory). You get your entrance ticket, you go for 5 hours, you finish. Usually they don't even bother with scorecards being "turned in". Everyone plays stroke because that's all they know.

 

Of course where we are, and I'm speaking from NZ but I know it's much the same in Aussie, most golf courses are "club" based, where usually the public is welcome, except on Saturdays at most clubs where it's pretty much member-only day because it's so busy.

 

In general, you join a club at an annual rate, and you get to play golf as a membership, similar to the US in a "gym membership". You get a tee time, and often you don't pay anything, or if you are on member day there may be a $5 stableford competition, etc., and the prize is often a meat tray, like ribs or chicken breast or whatever… which is something that still to this day is weird. Meat is a prize? Yep; it is here. Memberships in NZ run from about 1000 to 2000, with a few higher end courses charging $3000 a year, but they're posh.

 

In the US, I was paying $50-$70/round. Here, it's walk up of US$20-30, and that's if you don't have a reciprocal game. I get 12 free games a year at three different courses, and there are plenty of others that literally have honesty boxes on days to put your $20 in, or you can pay from your phone, because the proshop is all closed.

 

It's a real mind bender. In the US, equipment is a hobby. In NZ, equipment is the most expensive and difficult part of the game. Old iron sets in decent condition can often bring 50% of retail after 10 years.

 

Driving ranges are not as prevalent because people don't have problems getting on course. Driving ranges are also not revenue centres; many courses have them, but they prefer you didn't use them much because the one guy running the shop has to go drag the balls. Most course ranges, if they're full size here, use "lost" balls as their inventory.

 

And everyone knows that unless it's a specified stroke round for some odd reason, you know to pick up on zero stableford points. We can all do that because the national computerised system will tell you your handicap, and how many strokes you get because you *always* turn in a card. You don't get around it, really. Sure, you can go have a practice hit late afternoon, and sure, you can bugger off without turning it in, but it's encouraged you always turn in your cards.

 

Unlike the US, we have city "leagues" for inter club competition. There are multiple levels of scratch match comps, along with a year-round mid capper league where your handicap must add up as a team, and you play head to head match ryder-cup style. Because it's all cap based, the games are tight just by the law of averages, and all of these matches and comps are generally free to compete in as your member fees pay a levy to the region.

 

In the US, there's very, very little amateur competitive golf. In our area, we have 3 divisions of scratch, 2 divisions of indexed, individual champs, junior/age champs, women's scratch and multi-level index match play -- along with your Saturday and Sunday stablefords and several weekday offerings for $5-$15.

 

It's really a shame. Imagine how much city-league golf could be played in the US if it wasn't all super-profit driven? I guess no one cares because the courses in the US are full all the time.

 

Very different environments, and I'm so glad I'm here because participating in these kinds of games has made golf so much more fun than it was in the US. I don't miss the boring play there at all.

I need to move to New Zealand

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On 8/19/2021 at 2:45 PM, DinoSpumoni228 said:

 

There are a lot of ignorant opinions in this thread

 

I find it weird that people can justify a $10k initiation fee to a country club and $6k in dues every year after, but $4k for a launch monitor that will actually help you get better and will last 10 years is too much money.

 

To the person saying something better will be out in 18 months and your launch monitor will be worth 1/4th of the price - as of 6 months ago, people were still paying $6,000 for used foresight GC2's that utilize technology that was originally released 10 years ago.

 

Foresight designed and developed this unit and Bushnell is manufacturing and distributing it.

 

In other words, this is the latest release from the best camera based launch monitor company in the game. People can say what they want, but radar based launch monitors are just not as accurate when measuring indoors or measuring club data in general. 

 

There are plenty of people that would be more than willing to pay $4k to $6k for a camera based system that provides accurate ball and club data. As of right now the cheapest launch monitor that provides accurate club data costs $10k+.

 

 

A $3k launch monitor is not something a teaching pro should be using to give lessons. 9 times out of 10 a teaching pro is going to be focusing on the club data - which no $3k launch monitor currently measures. Trackman and GCQuad are professional level launch monitors. The "core consumer" is exactly what it sounds like, their CORE CONSUMER, aka the people they sell most of their product to aka the general public. Golf is an expensive activity. People that like to fish spend $50k+ on boats. $5k is really not a huge investment if you are an avid golfer.

If it's not ignorance or its the fact that people are so new to the LM to fully understand the mile stones this LM will surpass if they provide a LM with some measured club data for a unit starting at $3K. Even if you add the software for a total of $6K, that's still a bargain price comparing to GC2 with HMT (tech that is now 10 yrs selling in the 2nd market for over $10K), Uneekor EYEXO ($10K- not including software), GC4 ($14K + $3K for software), TM4 ($20K-$25K). I don't think this LM is intended for the beginner or those looking for a bargain price. I would categorized this unit in the middle market for those more serious golfers looking for the same Foresight quality with not all of the bells and whistles as the GC4. Most likely will have club speed, AOA, and hopefully club path and swing path. That information alone would be enticing and would warrant a $6K LM. 

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14 hours ago, WallysWorld said:

If it's not ignorance or its the fact that people are so new to the LM to fully understand the mile stones this LM will surpass if they provide a LM with some measured club data for a unit starting at $3K. Even if you add the software for a total of $6K, that's still a bargain price comparing to GC2 with HMT (tech that is now 10 yrs selling in the 2nd market for over $10K), Uneekor EYEXO ($10K- not including software), GC4 ($14K + $3K for software), TM4 ($20K-$25K). I don't think this LM is intended for the beginner or those looking for a bargain price. I would categorized this unit in the middle market for those more serious golfers looking for the same Foresight quality with not all of the bells and whistles as the GC4. Most likely will have club speed, AOA, and hopefully club path and swing path. That information alone would be enticing and would warrant a $6K LM. 

My thoughts exactly. We shouldn’t expect GC2 level accuracy (and now some club tracking features) at a sky track level or lower price point. They’re not peer devices. 
 

There is right now a massive chasm in the market in terms of price and quality between the entry point and high end. The middle of the market is empty. It’s why you see full swing coming out with their $4000 device.   If foresight/bushnell can provide the elite ball data of a GC2 with just a few club tracking parameters and they’re in the ball park of 5k all-in, that’s a smashing move forward in the launch monitor world and will be a huge hit among serious players, who right now simply can’t justify the 20k it takes to dive into the TM/GCQ world (and aren’t excited about shelling out 500+ for data they can’t trust 100%). 
 

If this is is essentially a GC2 with club head speed and path, I’m immediately in at 3k + software, and I know personally at least 3 others who will buy as well. 

Edited by Indygolf21
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4 minutes ago, Indygolf21 said:

My thoughts exactly. We shouldn’t expect GC2 level accuracy (and now some club tracking features) at an entry level price point. There is right now a massive chasm in the market in terms of price and quality between the entry point and high end. The middle of the market is empty. It’s why you see full swing coming out with their $4000 device.   If foresight/bushnell can provide the elite ball data of a GC2 with just a few club tracking parameters and they’re in the ball park of 5k all-in, that’s a smashing move forward in the launch monitor world and will be a huge hit among serious players, who right now simply can’t justify the 20k it takes to dive into the TM/GCQ world (and aren’t excited about shelling out 500+ for data they can’t trust 100%). 
 

If this is is essentially a GC2 with club head speed and path, I’m immediately in at 3k + software, and I know personally at least 3 others who will buy as well. 

yep I'm pretty convinced that this will be a game changer and already set the $ aside to pre-order in the next following weeks. 

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If this gives club path with horizontal launch direction (which is 80-90% face angle) in addition to club speed and "normal" PLM ball data (speed, lauch angle, spin, carry distance) for $3k (additional $$ for simulation software) then I could justify the cost. Question is will they include club path and/or face to path in the data that is available to view or will they hide it so that the simulation experience is accurate but it won't cannibalize the Quad much as isn't the same practice or fitting tool.

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2 hours ago, Dan13 said:

If this gives club path with horizontal launch direction (which is 80-90% face angle) in addition to club speed and "normal" PLM ball data (speed, lauch angle, spin, carry distance) for $3k (additional $$ for simulation software) then I could justify the cost. Question is will they include club path and/or face to path in the data that is available to view or will they hide it so that the simulation experience is accurate but it won't cannibalize the Quad much as isn't the same practice or fitting tool.

My guess is they almost 100% won't show face to path cause they won't want to take away from Quad sales like you said - but if they are silly enough to show us AoA, club path, and clubhead speed we'll be able to calculate just about any other data point you can think of when combining that info with the ball data. 

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It all depends really what part of this mid market they are looking to capture. 
 

Either the home simulator crowd or the training/swing improver crowd. Now these are not mutually exclusive but enough of a difference to be worth noting. 
 

I think the market might be a little different (and smaller as a result) here in the UK than in North America solely due to the space available. Homes here are noticeably smaller with most garages probably too small for full driver swings. 
 

it sounds like the home sim/garage golf scene is more of a thing over there. 


I for one fall into the swing crowd so without relevent club data this probably isn’t worth the investment for me. If clubdata is where I hope it is Im all in. 

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45 minutes ago, DinoSpumoni228 said:

My guess is they almost 100% won't show face to path cause they won't want to take away from Quad sales like you said - but if they are silly enough to show us AoA, club path, and clubhead speed we'll be able to calculate just about any other data point you can think of when combining that info with the ball data. 

Just to play devil's advocate, Full Swing Kit was suppose to release their LM with club path and club face. Unfortunately, they have gone radio silent but that would have put some pressure on this LM. I'm thinking a this point, they are working out their own kinks/making upgrades to what they were going to release and are waiting to see how the market reacts to Garmin's and Bushnell's product launch before they release the Kit. If it's not this LM someone else will provide both club path and face path at a reasonable price.

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If Launch Pro only offered ball speed, club speed, spin, launch angle (horizontal and vertical) and carry and kept the rest of the data hidden, how big would the market for this be? That is the only data mentioned in their marketing to date. Without paying extra for simulation software, $3k seems like a lot even if the data is more accurate then anything else out there in the $500 - $3k range.  That doesn't add up to me.  Mevo plus, even with its relative short falls, becomes pretty attractive at $2k.  Or wait until full kit comes out and get club path and face for only $1k more.  Unless, to Steve989's point, this is targeted primarily at the sim crowd at apprx. $5-6k at which point you get access to limited club data through the software with improved accuracy over the mevo plus sim experience.

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One of these guys will figure out that people want to **play** golf at home.

 

Snobs will say that it's not really golf, but neither is golf with a PS4 controller and a lot of people do that.

 

There's a lot of winter & lockdown golf people would like to play, and there's a premium in it. It has to be accurate enough, yes. People have been going to their big box stores and hitting demos against a GC2 for quite a while. They make purchasing decisions based on that. Is it Trackman? No. It's not, but it's clearly pretty good.

 

What people don't want is to buy a thing, set it up for x-thousand dollars, and then get bored with a range setting. They can do that at golftec, or whatever. What people crave is longevity for this sort of thing. Think of all the people that go to TopGolf… why? It's just a fancy range… but it's a game. People love a game.

 

So hopefully someone out there understands that this isn't a Trackman or Quad or X3. They understand it's a level down, and that level down has interest in better players or newer players that want to practice more than just plugging away at a screen. That's the device that will win out.

 

Seriously… for me, you tell me which one of these new ones I can connect to a PS5, and that's the one I buy. It isn't going to be minutia face-to-path stuff. That's for instructors. I need the flight to be accurate, and not calculated based on punching in which club I'm using. The rest… well, the rest doesn't matter much.

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410LST 8º, 3w 14.5º, 3h 20º, i210 4i, Blueprint 5-P, Glide Forged 50/54/58. Ping Tour x & MMT105tx shafts. Sigma2 Fetch w/ BGT. 

First par round 4 Oct 2020.

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13 hours ago, Dan13 said:

If Launch Pro only offered ball speed, club speed, spin, launch angle (horizontal and vertical) and carry and kept the rest of the data hidden, how big would the market for this be? That is the only data mentioned in their marketing to date. Without paying extra for simulation software, $3k seems like a lot even if the data is more accurate then anything else out there in the $500 - $3k range.  That doesn't add up to me.  Mevo plus, even with its relative short falls, becomes pretty attractive at $2k.  Or wait until full kit comes out and get club path and face for only $1k more.  Unless, to Steve989's point, this is targeted primarily at the sim crowd at apprx. $5-6k at which point you get access to limited club data through the software with improved accuracy over the mevo plus sim experience.

For me, I would go this route over Mevo+ or any other device under the $3k price point.  Mainly, Winter is super long here.  I want absolutely rock solid feedback if I am hitting a ball into a screen or net.  I made the mistake a few years ago of trusting the numbers I was seeing in a simulator that didn't have accurate ball info.  Took forever for me to fix my swing in the spring.  I have been following the R10 thread and no surprise the numbers a lot of people are seeing is super suspect.  But, my goal is swing building not simulation.  So, while accurate club data would be nice, I would still opt for something like this with very accurate ball data and no club data over something that isn't all that accurate in either category.  

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Ping G425 LST 10.5* w/Accra TZ5 M5 tipped 1"
Callaway Mavrik SZ 15* 3 Wood w/Ventus Red 7X 1.5" tipping
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Callaway Apex TCB 4-PW w/MCA MMT 125TX
Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2 w/Stability Tour Black
Callaway MD5 Jaws 52, 58, 64
Callaway Chrome Soft X Triple Track or Srixon Z Star XV

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