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Could a (1)4 handicap win the Open Championship in the 1860's


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One wonder, how many did play the game in Scotland in the 1860’s? Meaning, the best players back then, was that from a selection of say 10.000 golfers?

 

How good was really the Morrises and Parkses? I’m pretty sure, when you later come to the ages of Vardon and even more Jones those guys were the best from such an amount of golfers, they had so much more talent than a 1 handicapper now. Outdriven by 40 yds on every hole, but they would find ways to win anyhow. 
 

Guess a Vardon, having seen the evolvement of golf actually sometimes came to ponder upon - what will golf be like in 1950? 2000?? The equipment? Guess they would have been overjoyed to try a modern Taylor made driver, hitting a ProV1.

Edited by Hankshank
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What about ball finding?  I'm sure the winners back then had exceptional ball finding skills to keep their scores low. 

Just that one element of the game may prevent a lot of exceptional players of today from winning back then.

 

Golf is a mental game as well as physical.  A few lost balls may easily throw the entire game out of whack.

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You wouldn’t make it off the first tee. They’d burn you as a warlock as soon as you pulled out your titanium driver. So no you couldn’t beat them. 

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Can we please stop these “could a 4” threads? No. No. No. To paraphrase an old comment about scratch players….4 ain’t s**t.  He cannot beat the olde Scots and he cannot beat an average LPGA player…..

he couldn’t even make the field at the Women’s Amateur!

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/championships/2021/2021-us-womens-amateur-qualifying-results.html

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Who was the old times golfer who picked up golf in like his 30's or 40's and was winning tournaments a year later?

 

I think the 4 capper has a pretty good shot.

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23 hours ago, MaineMariner said:

Who was the old times golfer who picked up golf in like his 30's or 40's and was winning tournaments a year later?

 

I think the 4 capper has a pretty good shot.

Whomever that "old time golfer" was, and if he was indeed winning on Tour against the likes of Sam, Tommy Armour, Paul Runyan, Henry Picard, Gene Sarazan & Walter Hagen, to name just the one's off of the top of my head, he would have had to have been Playing BEST IN THE WORLD PLUS golf to beat these men, NOT remotely ANY kind of golf that ANY 4~ would could EVER Play under the gun of Professional golf, whether it was 1880, 1940, 1980 or today. Please do not take this as a personal affront because it is not, but it is this disconnect between the average golfer(I take it that you are not a Plus Player) and a Tour Pro, MUCH LESS a TOUR WINNER!!

 

There is NO 4~ EVER, that could drop a ball EVER in a top level Pro tournament and NOT embarrass themselves. Please, before some 4~ or God forbid, a 5~ or 6~, tell me that they Played a major or Tour track the Monday before or the Monday after the tournament and shot a 77-81, I am speaking to dropping the ball IN the major/tournament, from being announced on the first tee and walking through the gallery to hit your first shot to facing the imminent pressure that is present in every professional tournament, playing in front of thousands of fans on every shot, much less a major. A regular "club" Plus could not breathe standing on the first tee of a professional tournament, much less a major. A 4~??? You would need EMS with O2 and mask ready, hahahaha. Ya,  a 4~ would have "a pretty good shot," hahaha. A pretty good shot at hyperventilating and leaving the first tee on a gurney, hahaha. Again MM, I meant no disrespect to you as you are no different than 98%+ of amateurs who have no earthly idea about how good a PGA Tour level Player is. Ask Richard about the sixty some year old former Tour Player who played the BoBs(back of the box) with Richard, with clubs and a putter he'd never even seen before, much less hit, and Richard shot an even par 35 on the back. The old man??? He had a 29!!! I did not know Richard then(actually I was in HS😂), but Pete said that he'd never seen Richard so befuddled when he walked off 18 green, hahaha. It's not like Richard choked as not many amateurs can shot even par golf against a former PGA Tour Winner and record holder(he shot a record 60 in a tour round). Richard was -1 on(35) on the front and lost the back by SIX strokes. Bottom line, NO 4~(Unless they are a former tour pro), regardless of the century or era, could step onto a PGA Tour tee box and compete, hahaha. Take care MM:) Madison

Edited by nikegal
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The 4 handicapper would win easily. Compare a game played on the weekend by a few thousand people vs a game played by tens of millions, by people networked with years of technology and data. They aren't playing the same game.

 

Another fact is that good college golfers today would be regularly winning on tour in the pre-TW era. TW took it to the next level. The guys from the 1800s are many levels behind. Not the same game.

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7 minutes ago, tw_focus said:

 

Another fact is that good college golfers today would be regularly winning on tour in the pre-TW era. TW took it to the next level. The guys from the 1800s are many levels behind. Not the same game.

Hi TW. I am hoping that either @rangersgoalie, a former Tour Pro for almost a decade along with @isaacbm,  a former Pro with over 300 Professional tournaments under his belt, can point out that "good college golfers" from today would be LUCKY to make the CUT  in a PGA event in ANY era, much less "pre-TW," in say the 1970's-mid 1990's, 😂😂. "Regularly winning???" 😂😂😂👍M

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Guys, regardless of the century, era or handicap, it ALL comes down to the mindset and mentality of a TOUR PROFESSIONAL. Their mindset, mentality, confidence and mental strength is one that very very very few amateurs can even COMPREHEND, much less be able to compete with, much less BEAT. A four handicap has NEVER broken par in ANY tournament, without strokes😂😂, much less break par under the gun in a Professional tournament. That is why I am so adamant that it's a non-issue/event. Ask ANY Elite Am/college Player/Mid Am that you know, IF you know one, the difference between them and a card carrying Tour Pro and almost to a man/woman, they'll either tell you "mental game" or point to their head. THAT mentality is timeless!! End of discussion. I gotta go tee it up😉 Madison

Edited by nikegal
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9 hours ago, nikegal said:

Whomever that "old time golfer" was, and if he was indeed winning on Tour against the likes of Sam, Tommy Armour, Paul Runyan, Henry Picard, Gene Sarazan & Walter Hagen, to name just the once's off of the top of my head, he would have had to have been Playing BEST IN THE WORLD PLUS golf to beat these men, NOT remotely ANY kind of golf that ANY 4~ would it could EVER Play under the gun of Professional golf, whether it was 1880, 1940, 1980 or today. Please do not take this as a personal affront because it is not, but it is this disconnect between the average golfer(I take it that you are not a Plus Player) and a Tour Pro, MUCH LESS a TOUR WINNER!!

 

There is NO 4~ EVER, that could drop a ball EVER in a top level Pro tournament and NOT embarrass themselves. Please, before some 4~ or God forbid, a 5~ or 6~, tell me that they Played a major or Tour track the Monday before or the Monday after the tournament and shot a 77-81, I am speaking to dropping the ball IN the major/tournament, from being announced on the first tee and walking through the gallery to hit your first shot to facing the imminent pressure that is present in every professional tournament, much less a major. A regular "club" Plus could not breathe standing on the first tee of a professional tournament, much less a major. A 4~??? You would need EMS with O2 and mask ready, hahahaha. Ya,  a 4~ would have "a pretty good shot," hahaha. A pretty good shot at hyperventilating and leaving the first tee on a gurney, hahaha. Again MM, I meant no disrespect to you as you are no different than 98%+ of amateurs who have no earthly idea about how good a PGA Tour level Player is. Ask Richard about the sixty some year old former Tour Player who played the BoBs(back of the box) with Richard, with clubs and a putter he'd never even seen before, much less hit, and Richard shot an even par 35 on the back. The old man??? He had a 29!!! I did not know Richard then(actually I was in HS😂), but Pete said that he'd never seen Richard so befuddled when he walked off 18 green, hahaha. It's not like Richard choked as not many amateurs can shot even par golf against a former PGA Tour Winner and record holder(he shot a record 60 in a tour round). Richard was -1 on(35) on the front and lost the back by SIX strokes. Bottom line, NO 4~(Unless they are a former tour pro), regardless of the century or era, could step onto a PGA Tour tee box and compete, hahaha. Take care MM:) Madison

WhyITF you always gotta bring that match up😜🤪????

 

It took me two weeks to get over it and my BB Partner was so pissed at Pete cuz he said that he "ruined" me, lolol

 

The worst part is you always say that you were in HS at the time, like I was hangin around your school or cheerleading practice like some perv😂😂

 

Lovingly😘

Me

Edited by Forged4ever
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In the end, only three things matter~ <br /><br />How much that you loved...<br /><br />How mightily that you lived...<br /><br />How gracefully that you accepted both victory & defeat...<br /><br /><br /><br />GHIN: Beefeater 24

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1 hour ago, Obee said:

 

Dude. "Regularly Winning"? Wow. There are so many levels of ignorance in that statement ....

Hey Bro, I hope that your back is quiet and you're having a nice season👊
 

I agree 💯 with ya though Maddie pointed out to me that you cannot expect someone to understand or even comprehend something  they have absolutely no real world actual first hand experience with, which 98%+ of these guys or any group of guys have none🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Hey, it makes for entertaining reading😂😂

 

Stay Well Brotha👊
RP

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I hereby petition WRX to include "4 handicap" in the list of "banned words" to be asterisked OUT of a heading or post !!!

 

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2 hours ago, Obee said:

 

Dude. "Regularly Winning"? Wow. There are so many levels of ignorance in that statement ....

 

"So many levels" and you cannot even enumerate one of them. How about this - anyone who was not rich and white was heavily discouraged and/or banned from professional golf prior to TW. Look at what Travino went through at Augusta National, that is just the tip of the iceberg. If you're playing golf at a high level now then you're a world class athlete. If you played golf professionally prior to the TW era, chances are you were in the good-old-boys club, smoking cigars in the cubhouse and sipping whiskey after the round.

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21 minutes ago, tw_focus said:

 

"So many levels" and you cannot even enumerate one of them. How about this - anyone who was not rich and white was heavily discouraged and/or banned from professional golf prior to TW. Look at what Travino went through at Augusta National, that is just the tip of the iceberg. If you're playing golf at a high level now then you're a world class athlete. If you played golf professionally prior to the TW era, chances are you were in the good-old-boys club, smoking cigars in the cubhouse and sipping whiskey after the round.

Wait, what? 
 

Sam Snead, Ben Hogan, Byron Nelson, basically grew up in complete squalor. Arnold Palmer grew up is the son of a greenskeeper. So if you weren’t rich you were banned from professional golf?

Tommy Nakashima, Lee Trevino, Lee elder, Calvin Pete All had  professional 

careers long before Tiger Woods. Tiger came on the scene in 1997 not 1960! 

 

Also, there are maybe  4-6  college players at any given time within the entire system that are good enough to walk onto the tour and be considered likely  to keep their card. They are  approximately 1000 Div 1 College golfers. 
 

facts are difficult sometimes… 

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2 hours ago, isaacbm said:

Wait, what? 
 

Sam Snead, Ben Hogan, Byron Nelson, basically grew up in complete squalor. Arnold Palmer grew up is the son of a greenskeeper. So if you weren’t rich you were banned from professional golf?

Tommy Nakashima, Lee Trevino, Lee elder, Calvin Pete All had  professional 

careers long before Tiger Woods. Tiger came on the scene in 1997 not 1960! 

 

Also, there are maybe  4-6  college players at any given time within the entire system that are good enough to walk onto the tour and be considered likely  to keep their card. They are  approximately 1000 Div 1 College golfers. 
 

facts are difficult sometimes… 

Bro, you're a faaaaar better man than I cuz I couldn't bring myself to respond to that post unless literally, my, Maddie's or Ava's life were on the line😂😂

 

Absent that scenario, I would do what I did, read it, say "WTF did he just post" to myself, reread it just to make sure that he posted what I thought that he posted, which he did, I then chuckled to myself, and moved on, as there is absolutely nothing that I could say in response to THAT post😂😂

 

Seriously, WTF😝😜🤪

 

Bro, he's dropping stereotypical quips that the clueless drop😂😂

 

But this is why I Love Ya~
 

Not only are you a word class Player(yes, you are still amongst THE Elite Ams on earth), however you are a true Gentleman. I put you in the same class as Nathan and Sean, and even though both are USGA Champions(6 Titles Between em), if you were Playing either of them for $1000/hole I'd bet on you all day every day 7/365 on any track on God's green earth⛳

 

For those of you wondering why I would lay $1000/hole on @isaacbm, it's quite simple and I've been chirpin this since the day that I hit this board~
 

They are World Class Ams, one, a 3-time Walker Cupper and 4-Time Masters Invitee, however NEITHER has ever Played for the roof over their head, the car in their garage or the clothes on their backs.

 

Isaac has!!

 

Even you idiots should understand how tight one's scrotum gets when you're standing over a 5' three hole rider($1000/hole x 3= $3000).

 

Like I said, I'll take Isaac all day long on that putt🤙 

Regarding some "Pre-TW" Players who could plant the peg in ANY era, emerge as a Champion, among the very best in that era and any one of these guys would totally annihilate a Trinedale or whateverTF his name is under the gun in a Major, and I'm only goin back to 70's and probably missed a few....

 

Tom Watson

Gary Player

Raymond Floyd

Curtis Strange

Billy Casper 

Al Geiberger 

Hale Irwin

Gene Litler

Johnny Miller

Payne Stewart

Lanny Wadkins 
Corey Pavin


You kids are cute though, lol

 

This board is for entertainment and you do make me LMAO😂😂🤙

 

For that I thank ya from the bottom of my heart❤️😘🤗

 

Stay Well Brotha👊
RP

Edited by Forged4ever
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3 hours ago, tw_focus said:

 

"So many levels" and you cannot even enumerate one of them. How about this - anyone who was not rich and white was heavily discouraged and/or banned from professional golf prior to TW. Look at what Travino went through at Augusta National, that is just the tip of the iceberg. If you're playing golf at a high level now then you're a world class athlete. If you played golf professionally prior to the TW era, chances are you were in the good-old-boys club, smoking cigars in the cubhouse and sipping whiskey after the round.


Have you ever played a single round of competitive golf at scratch in your entire life?

 

if you have not, it's a complete waste of time to try to explain it to you. If you have, and still feel that way, there is nothing to talk about. Would be a waste of time.

 

As for your comments about people of color not playing golf, you are 100% correct and golf would absolutely have been better in every way had people of color always been encouraged to play.

 

And btw, Tiger Woods is my favorite athlete of all time.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/25/2021 at 8:17 AM, nikegal said:

Whomever that "old time golfer" was, and if he was indeed winning on Tour against the likes of Sam, Tommy Armour, Paul Runyan, Henry Picard, Gene Sarazan & Walter Hagen, to name just the one's off of the top of my head, he would have had to have been Playing BEST IN THE WORLD PLUS golf to beat these men, NOT remotely ANY kind of golf that ANY 4~ would could EVER Play under the gun of Professional golf, whether it was 1880, 1940, 1980 or today. Please do not take this as a personal affront because it is not, but it is this disconnect between the average golfer(I take it that you are not a Plus Player) and a Tour Pro, MUCH LESS a TOUR WINNER!!

 

There is NO 4~ EVER, that could drop a ball EVER in a top level Pro tournament and NOT embarrass themselves. Please, before some 4~ or God forbid, a 5~ or 6~, tell me that they Played a major or Tour track the Monday before or the Monday after the tournament and shot a 77-81, I am speaking to dropping the ball IN the major/tournament, from being announced on the first tee and walking through the gallery to hit your first shot to facing the imminent pressure that is present in every professional tournament, playing in front of thousands of fans on every shot, much less a major. A regular "club" Plus could not breathe standing on the first tee of a professional tournament, much less a major. A 4~??? You would need EMS with O2 and mask ready, hahahaha. Ya,  a 4~ would have "a pretty good shot," hahaha. A pretty good shot at hyperventilating and leaving the first tee on a gurney, hahaha. Again MM, I meant no disrespect to you as you are no different than 98%+ of amateurs who have no earthly idea about how good a PGA Tour level Player is. Ask Richard about the sixty some year old former Tour Player who played the BoBs(back of the box) with Richard, with clubs and a putter he'd never even seen before, much less hit, and Richard shot an even par 35 on the back. The old man??? He had a 29!!! I did not know Richard then(actually I was in HS😂), but Pete said that he'd never seen Richard so befuddled when he walked off 18 green, hahaha. It's not like Richard choked as not many amateurs can shot even par golf against a former PGA Tour Winner and record holder(he shot a record 60 in a tour round). Richard was -1 on(35) on the front and lost the back by SIX strokes. Bottom line, NO 4~(Unless they are a former tour pro), regardless of the century or era, could step onto a PGA Tour tee box and compete, hahaha. Take care MM:) Madison

 I assume this is a troll or you are missing the point. The early opens had fields of less than 20 golfers (8 in the first one) and the bottom half of the field would shoot 20+ over par and the winners often did not break par. Those guys in the early years have next to nothing in common with a current PGA player. 

 

I suspect not only would a low handicap golfer with modern gear win, they would dominate. 

Edited by 2bGood
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On 7/23/2021 at 6:54 AM, Shilgy said:

I really need a source on those stimps. 1963 US Open greens at 2.7??  That’s slower than a fairway! If they changed the system then those numbers are meaningless but there is now way the greens were less than 7 back then. 

https://www.gcmonline.com/course/environment/news/green-speed-history

 

Here is some footage of said US open.  Modern Stimps I would guess would be 5-7.  Tell tale is in the velcro stopping of the ball at the end of the putts.  Original Stimp was obviously calibrated to a shorter reading, but still these greens would be extremely receptive to a high wedge shot.

 

 

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Reading through this thread, it certainly took an unexpected turn 😂 

 

Informative none the less! 

Golfers Pre Tiger           Golfers Post Tiger

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11 hours ago, 2bGood said:

 I assume this is a troll or you are missing the point. The early opens had fields of less than 20 golfers (8 in the first one) and the bottom half of the field would shoot 20+ over par and the winners offers did not break par. Those guys in the early years have next to nothing in common with a current PGA player. 

 

I suspect not only would a low handicap golfer with modern gear win, they would dominate. 

 

I’ve seen lots of guys, including myself, with modern gear and single figure handicaps shoot in the 80’s and worse on perfectly manicured links course without the slightest bit of wind. Throw them into an 1860’s October at Prestwick in the howling wind, no rakes in the bunkers and greens that resembled your front lawn and whilst I think they could win, there are definitely not going to be dominating.

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1 hour ago, vallygolf said:

https://www.gcmonline.com/course/environment/news/green-speed-history

 

Here is some footage of said US open.  Modern Stimps I would guess would be 5-7.  Tell tale is in the velcro stopping of the ball at the end of the putts.  Original Stimp was obviously calibrated to a shorter reading, but still these greens would be extremely receptive to a high wedge shot.

 

 

Good read. Thank you. He ‘63 greens look more like 7-8 to me….certainly not a 5. 
 

The game has changed.

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Only if I were born in 1850, and played a sport that was just invited and only 14 others took seriously. I'd be recognized 170 years later as one of the greatest golfers of all time.  It's amazing how just being born in that century fused them with so much phenomenal talent.

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, 2bGood said:

 I assume this is a troll or you are missing the point. The early opens had fields of less than 20 golfers (8 in the first one) and the bottom half of the field would shoot 20+ over par and the winners offers did not break par. Those guys in the early years have next to nothing in common with a current PGA player. 

 

I suspect not only would a low handicap golfer with modern gear win, they would dominate. 

Though I've only responded for her once in the years that she's been on the board, and this is just a flyer, though it is neither, lol. One, she doesn't troll and two, she's sharper than me, and I ain't lunch meat Brotha😉

 

That said, and my respect for you aside, as you're in my top sphere of most respected members on this or any board, I agree with her and disagree with anyone that believes for a second that a legit 4~ could compete against say, James Braid. This may go to the fact that all that I read(and I can't speak for Madison on this) was the title, NOT the OP, so if there were stipulations, caveats, etc., I missed them. I told her not to post in this thread as she's a Professional, and as such, she is speaking to a mind set that 98%+ of Ams cannot understand, unless they are in that less than that 2% group that are legit Plusses, Elite Ams and have competed against both other Elite Ams and/or Pros. It's definitely one of those things that if one hasn't "been there done that," then there is no friggin way that they can draw from their prior experiences to have the mindset, mentality & mental game that she is speaking of on a golf course under the gun against an Elite Am or Professional in either money golf or tourney golf. 


I took it, and in talking to Maddie, I know that she took it this way also, in that the OP was speaking of transferring a 4~ back to that time period, with him using that time period's clubs, balls, rules(please remember that the rules were muuuuuuuuuch stricter regarding relief(non-existent😂), etc. I don't care if there were eight Players, or what the day job of those eight Players were. If they were amongst the best Players in Scotland/Ireland, then a 4~ would have no chance. 
 

I get that if ya literally took, say James Braid's winning scores of 309, 318, 299, 300 and 291, that those actually fall into that 4~ish cap range, at least the 300+ scores do, however where I am coming from(and Madison) is that that Braid had the mindset of a National Champion, actually a 5-Time National Champion, and that 4~ that you're speaking of taking back to that time period, obviously would not be a 4~ back then(he'd probably be closer to 10-12 ~ IF he's a legit 4~ today) and Braid would unceremoniously kick his *ss, again, again and again for as long as he showed up, lolol😂😂

 

It goes to MINDSET, MENTAL TOUGHNESS & CONFIDENCE and that my friend, is TIMELESS and CANNOT BE GIVEN, GIFTED OR BOUGHT!!!

 

It may only be EARNED!!


A Champion is a Champion, regardless of the rules, equipment technology, era, etc., and a 4~ from today, IS NOT A CHAMPION, I don't care if he's a 10-Time friggin Flight Winner, he would NEVER have a Champion's Mindset or Mental toughness or Confidence to plant the peg, no strokes, and Play a Champion!!

 

They are not even REMOTELY qualified to play in their Club's Championship Flight Championship today for chrissakes, if it's a legit Player's Club😂😂

 

The Play in nothing but Cap events, nickel & dime nassaus and against other 4- to 7~ cappers(at least at our Club, Oakmont, Fox Chapel GC, etc.) either gettin or givin strokes from the WHITE tees😂😂

 

Now if you want to say that say someone like myself when I was in the game, a solid +2.8, 4-Time Club Champion who beat a future USGA National Champion(he would win that 5 years later) for the then most prestigious MP title in the western part of the state, or @Obee, an uber competitive and decorated So Cal Mid-Am could be transported back to 1880-1990 and be competitive, ok, I will entertain that. I am not saying that I could beat Braid, and I will not speak for David, as obviously this is conjecture and my opinion, however regardless of the clubs, rules, etc., I, David and other Legit Successful PLUSSES have the MINDSET, Mental Game & Confidence to compete. We may not win, however the stage, and I don't care if it's in front of thousands or in a friggin goat pasture🐐in 1890 with only the goats and caddies present, nor the game, stakes  or competitor would EVER overwhelm us. A 4~, provided that he's NOT a former Elite Plus Am or Pro who's cap has gone north due to life getting in the way, well, a regular legit 4~ would be like a child🧒🏼 Playing amongst Men. I'm not being arrogant, just stating fact and ANY Plus or Pro on this board that has had a 4~ in their group would say the same. With a tournament or money on a shot against either a Plus or a Pro, a 4~ couldn't even control their breathing, much less their club head & ball😂😂😂.
 

THAT is the mindset that you could transport back to 1890 or ANY era!!
 

One does not just gift Mind Set, Mental Toughness & Confidence under the gun!!! James Braid EARNED those five National Championships and the Mindset, mental toughness and confidence that came with them, and you're gonna seriously tell me that some 4~, and I don't care if he's a 10-Time Flight winner, is gonna plant it with James Braid and compete with him????

 

Brotha, if you were anyone else, you know what my next acronym/post woulda been😂😂😂🤙
 

The bottom line with me, and I known that Madison agrees cuz we had the same Teacher, and that is that you can give someone strokes, equipment, etc. however the ONE thing that CANNOT BE GIVEN, is a Player's mindset, mental toughness and Confidence!!

 

Not to disparage any 4~'s, cuz I've Played with the best 4's around, from Pennsylvania to Florida and New York to California and they couldn't compete with any of us that were Plusses or Pros😂😂😂

 

And you're gonna tell me that those 4~'s could go back in time and compete against much less beat James Braid????

 

Sorry Brotha, I ain't trollin but I also ain't bitin, lol

 

What I want is for either a LEGIT Plus or Pro to tell me that my above thoughts are off base!!!
 

A PLUS or PRO!!

 

I just noticed in your post that you mentioned taking today's equipment back to that time period and if that's the case then this is hands down unequivocally THE dumbest thread that I've seen in my 9 years on the board, I'M the idiot for even responding😂😂😂

 

IF that is what the OP posted then forget everything that I've posted as I would not even have responded to such a thread if I had read the OP instead of just the title.

 

If you're just talking about taking a 4~ back to that period, dropping him in with him Playing their equipment, rules, etc., then as far as you & I go Brotha, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, lol🤙
 

I hope that you're well and having a great season👊
Richard

Edited by Forged4ever

In the end, only three things matter~ <br /><br />How much that you loved...<br /><br />How mightily that you lived...<br /><br />How gracefully that you accepted both victory & defeat...<br /><br /><br /><br />GHIN: Beefeater 24

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For some reason many think a 4 cap shoots 76 day in and day out.  When in reality on a course rated at 72.0 they will average about 79.  Others look at this thread and think the course -and rules for that matter as Richard just noted- was the same as a 6000 course today.  Sounds easy right?  
Prestwick was 12 holes totaling 3800 yards.  The first was a par 5 measuring 578!  Based on the conditions of the day I am guessing there would be very little roll to shots so it certainly played a bit longer than you would think. Putting would have been a crapshoot as well.

Makes Young Tom’s first round in 1870 look pretty good in my eyes…

 

Tommy Morris's first round of 47 (3-5-3-5-6-3-3-3-4-3-4-5

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Callaway Epic Speed 9* playing at 8* PX Hzrdus Green 60s

Titleist TS3 strong 3 wood 13.5* PX Hzrdus. Smoke 75s

Titleist 818H2 19* hybrid Tensei Blue

Adams A12 21* UST VTS Silver 75s

Titleist TS3 23* Tensei Blue

Srixon ZX7 6-pw Nippon Pro Modus 125s

Taylormade MG2 50* 54* 58* DG S300

Scotty Cameron Newport Special Select 34” with flow neck by LaMont

 

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