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What is the putting equivalent to Rick Barry's underhand free throws?


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Hitting off the heel is evil perpetrated by the Devil. Father Soloman urges you to resist and repel the "Pull of Satan!"

 

You just have to get more methodical in the setup and ball position that works for you. It doesn't matter if you're open, closed, square, wide, narrow, upside down, cross-handed or cross-eyed. Whatever works to achieve impact nirvana.

 

What's impact nirvana? Use your right hand only (since 90% of you are right handed) and putt some 6 footers until you feel "perfect impact" - you don't feel any vibration of impact because it's so pure. You'll need to hitting slightly up at impact to feel impact nirvana.

 

 

Edited by Soloman1
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On 7/24/2021 at 6:35 AM, Fairway14 said:

 

Shoulders square to the target line at address I believe is a commonality among most all good putters . It's true Nicklaus and Crenshaw and Pavin used an open stance address posture, but at the same time their shoulders were square to their target line. Bobby Locke used a closed stance but his shoulders were square to the target line.

Good point. Shoulders square ensures a delivery method, while open or close can zero out path.

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On 7/24/2021 at 5:44 AM, JohnnyCashForever said:

Why mess with technique and practice when all you need is the power of positive contagion, the belief that if you use the exact piece of equipment that a successful pro used, you will be better by the transference of the pro's mojo to your putting stroke. 

 

It ain't The Lancet, but it's published and peer reviewed.

 

  Putting Like a Pro: The Role of Positive Contagion in Golf Performance and Perception (plos.org)

 

Research results distilled to one sentence: Belief is a powerful thing.

 

I'm surprised John Daly hasn't picked up on this yet.  Imagine the number of drivers "actually used by Long John in Tournament X" he could sell at next year's Masters!  Seriously.      

Incredible BS

 

 

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Look up David Edel’s description of the claw grip and why it works. IF you’re anatomy is a good fit, it doesn’t get much simpler than folding/unfolding the right elbow down the line. Completely different feel than you’re likely used to, but the repeatability is a revelation.

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On 7/26/2021 at 8:49 AM, dlygrisse said:

Interesting, I looked up the all time leaders , Steph Curry leads the list, Bird and Sharman are #13 and 14.  Barry is 8th. The amount that separates them is small. I never saw Sharman play but Barry is highly underrated in this day and age, Bird is one of the greatest clutch shooters ever. Curry make be the greatest shooter ever, to me using a different technique for free throws just doubles the amount of skills you need to practice. 
 

modern equipment does help.  Basketballs used to be inconsistent in roundness, lighting was bad in some arenas, who knows if all the baskets were the same height?

 

we could get into one of those endless debates about the old guys vs the young guys.  I’ll leave it with, Rick Barry is the only guy on the list to shoot that way, that I know of.  Wilt Chamberlain shot that way and struggled to hit 50%. 
 

putting isn’t hard unless you make it hard and set unrealistic expectations.  It’s the easiest part of the game, and the one area where someone of almost any age or skill level can be competent at. 
 

it’s really all just mental. 

 

 

I remeber a quote from Wilt that he got a psychologist to work with him for 6 weeks on free throw shooting. He said "at the end of 6 weeks the psychologist was a better free throw shooter than I was"

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Okay, I use a device called focus band which measures my brain waves and tells me when I am in a meditative state that they call mushin or right brained.  When I work with the focus band enough to be able to get into the mushin state fairly well I definitely putt better.  I think that a big part of the reason that I putt better when I am in the mushin state is that I don't care about the outcome during the stroke.  I am totally involved with the process.  

 

It is rather hard for me to describe what it feels like.  I have worn the focus band while doing normal stuff and I will get into the mushin state while doing a variety of different things.  For instance doing something on the computer that requires attention and gets me fully involved.  Writing code is something can get me into that state of mind.  I guess that you could say it is a state of total focus on the moment...  Things like routine chores say gardening, house cleaning or working on some project can get me there also.  It is a state of involved and interested indifference I guess you could say...  LOL I am probably not describing it very well!

 

 

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Hybrids: 3, 4 and 5 Rogue with Steelfiber HLS980 shaft
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Putter: Strokelab EXO 7; 39.25 inches; 77 degree lie angle; Takimac arthritic grip

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2 hours ago, HateTheHighDraw said:

Side saddle right? But isn’t it banned now?

No, never has been and likely never will be. Standing beside the ball with an extremely open stance…

 

At the most, there might be a restriction put on putter length, but that’s all.

 

And fwiw, side saddle is the absolute opposite of the Barry method; you’re using ONE hand rather than trying to coordinate two like Barry did and like conventional putting does.  For that matter, side saddle is like shooting a conventional free throw with the plane flipped upside down; facing the target, one hand is the lever, foot on that side slightly forward, other hand still, etc.   

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On 7/23/2021 at 11:12 PM, lefthack said:

I recently switched to instinct putting and just got my book today on it. Similar to a free throw I am taking a lot of the overthinking out of it and I've never putted this well. Everyone I have played with thinks I'm crazy, but we all laugh when my putt drops with me looking at the hole the whole time. 

 

 

17bd6215e20d4da0c211a397a5872374be96d598.jpg

Superb book and as long as you practice it, get the reps in and then visualize your stroke and putt in your PSR prior to stroking the ball, with both your practice putts and your actual putts, you'll be good to go. Anyone that is serious about this method, HAS to get the book, or they're not serious, and it's just another fad and passing fancy, as most things are with amateur golfers, from clubs to swing/putting methodologies. In your visualization, just visualize the putter going back and coming back in square to the ball and hitting dead center on your putter face and FEEL the ball coming off of the putter at impact. This is the visualization that ALL Plusses and Pros SEE, HEAR & FEEL in their mind's eye in their PSR. That said, the particular method that you use should be one that allows you to function routinely, repeatedly & consistently under pressure. @oikos1 made the most immutable thought in this or any instructional thread when he stated, "it freed my mind and allowed me to TRUST that I can get the ball to the hole with the proper speed." Along side Oikos comment would be @Obee's, "almost impossible for there to be one "anatomically best" way of doing something even as simple as putting." Anyone that tells you otherwise regarding David's comment is full of sh*t. David is being his usual classy self versus dogmatic, but I will say it~ it is IMPOSSIBLE for there to be one best way/method of doing anything!!

 

This can and should be be practiced off of the course when you have a few free minutes, you should visualize your stroke, the club head going back and coming through impact and SEE, FEEL & HEAR the click of the ball as your putter strikes it squarely!! FWIW, I agree 💯 with Jack that putting is 98% confidence & touch, and the only way to have a Player's confidence level or touch is to pick a method and putter, stick with it and practice your PSR until it is bullet proof and practice your stroke until it is the same. This will take thousands and tens of thousands of reps and putts, though you take them one at a time and NEVER strike a putt, ANYWHERE, without going through your PSR and having 💯% TRUST in your stroke & read!! FWIW, there is no one way to putt, either with body/club positions or methodologies, including this method. I've taught this method(I also teach the "traditional" eyes on ball method) since 2011, after spending 2 weeks with Eric and then as an visiting putting instructor at his Pinehurst🌲 Golf Academy. Continued Success LH. Please keep us in the loop regarding your progress, including the rough patches!😊Madison

D09CC6CC-9214-4167-A216-E4866725D974.jpeg

Edited by nikegal
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On 7/27/2021 at 11:36 AM, ChipStrokes said:

its uncomfortable at first. i've messed around with it. for some reason i hit the ball off the heel of the putter when i'm looking at the hole.  to be fair, i haven't given it enough practice to say whether or not it works for me though.

 

i think the "throwing a baseball/dart" analogy is a good one that works for anyone with some athletic ability but i find it a little flawed.  don't take this as an argument, but more of a discussion point.  when you throw a ball or a dart, your projectile of choice is directly connected to your body and you have 100% influence over how much force you apply to it and in what direction.  with putting, you're using another object to propel the ball forward and how much force you apply to the putter doesn't transfer to the ball 1:1 all the time.  

 

@Soloman1 @lefthack @oikos1 @Hawkeye77 thoughts?

I felt the same way.  So I knew I had to feel like the ball started on the face of my putter and I would just take it back and bring it through, imagining and feeling like the ball was always connected to the face of my putter, and then just release the ball from my putter on it's way to the hole. 

 

Two drills: One is to putt straight from address, never taking the putter back, feels like you are pushing the ball to the hole.  Focus on the release of the putter head.  The other is to glue a magnet to a golf ball and attach the magnet to the face of the putter.  Make several practice swings with the felling and weight of the ball on the putter.  Mix it up but always looking at your target.  Then make a handful of putts looking at the hole/cup/beer can/etc. (sometimes the target isn't always the hole, especially on severe breaking putts.  Just pick a speck on the green/carpet/garage floor that's your start line in that case).  Mix up distances now and again.   5-10 minutes sometime during the day/evening is all you need for these drills and you can do them anywhere on any surface.   I was amazed how quickly I developed feel of the putter head and it's relationship to the ball. 

 

Kind of like how you play with these:

 

image.jpeg.69e8d5c61af1366a2955a3cfd3015eac.jpeg

After that, all you have to focus on is reading the putt and starting it on line.  And you can start a putt on line with your eyes closed...

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I believe that the stroke is the least important part of putting.  It is possible for anyone to develop a repeating stroke with a wide variety of methods.  The difficult part is line and speed:

 

 

Hmmm, that trick shouldn't be too awfully hard should it?

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Driver Maltby KE4 w Aeortech Steelfiber SS65 shaft 46.5”
3 wood Rogue subzero 15 degree with Paderson KG70 F30
Hybrids: 3, 4 and 5 Rogue with Steelfiber HLS980 shaft
Irons: 6 through wedge PXG 0311 with Steelfiber i110cw shaft
Wedge: 50 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 S Grind
Wedge: 56 deg 10 deg bounce Jaws S Grind
Wedge: 62 deg 10 deg bounce MacDaddy 4 C Grind (bent to 62 degrees from 60 degrees)
Wedges with steelfiber i110 shafts.
Putter: Strokelab EXO 7; 39.25 inches; 77 degree lie angle; Takimac arthritic grip

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5 hours ago, teddyironboy said:

What about 80 degree lie angle? That encourages more of a straight-back-straight-through stroke, so naturally there's less face rotation. And would it be legal to toe-down an 80 degree putter?

Ok, here goes...

 

It is "legal" to hold ANY conforming club, including a putter with an 80* lie angle, with the club head in a toe down/heel up position, even if that makes the shaft vertical. 

 

However, the Rules specify that "If the overall design of the club is such that the player can effectively use the club in a vertical or close-to-vertical position, the shaft may be required to diverge from the vertical in this plane by as much as 25 degrees". 

 

This rule is primarily aimed at putters to prevent them from being held and used with the shaft in a vertical position.  Basically, you can think of any club that is not soled as having a smaller sweet spot, so if the sole of a putter is made so that there is no significant loss of performance when held vertically, that club would be non-conforming.  Which is EXACTLY what happened the Dechambeau's putter several years ago when he went back to side saddle putting at the beginning of the season; he was holding the shaft dead vertical, and the heel of the putter was NOT off the ground.  I knew that the putter was non-conforming the first day I watched, and it was ZERO surprise to me when the USGA ruled accordingly; I only wondered what took them so long.

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Sounds like there is a lot of grey area there. Wouldn't imagine there to be a significant loss in performance holding a putter 10 degrees higher. And tri-sole putters like the Sik would allow at least some of the putter to lie flat - you can let it rest consistently vertical each time. Is the intent of how it's made? Like if a putter was made so the sweetspot was moved somewhere more optimal for a vertical, toe-down style, that would be illegal?

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Anyways 80 degrees is pretty damn vertical. Could play it as straight-back-straight for short and medium putts - the ones that would benefit most from this style. In theory it would be more consistent, although not sure how it works biomechanically - would have to stand closer to the ball and the body gets in the way of the arms more.

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7 hours ago, teddyironboy said:

Anyways 80 degrees is pretty damn vertical. Could play it as straight-back-straight for short and medium putts - the ones that would benefit most from this style. In theory it would be more consistent, although not sure how it works biomechanically - would have to stand closer to the ball and the body gets in the way of the arms more.

I agree that 80* is “pretty damn vertical”.  I’ve been putting side saddle for six years, and I’ve never really thought that the 10 degrees was important at all.  I think the key to understanding the rule is just taking the language for its most simple meaning.  A club held toe up or toe down doesn’t have to be ineffective; that’s a function of the shot at hand and perhaps the skill of the golfer using it. And I think you can presume that any club held with the toe up or down will not function as well as if it were soled.  So sort of think of it as what the club head looks like IF the shaft is vertical; if the heel is NOT off the ground, that club is going to be nonconforming.
 

I think “the body being in the way” is probably a big reason that conventional putters are 71* or so.  Some long putters are 80*, but that’s another story entirely.

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