How should golf view it’s past?

[TiScape]

9 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Lol, well that’s a completely different talent pool than current.

 

Yes it is. But it was the best they could put on the court at that time. So are the athletes of today bigger, stronger and faster than their 1950s counterparts… 💯 Absolutely, now why is a completely different conversation. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by TiScape

[MattM97]

What's in the past was in the past and can't really be compared to today. Let's look at athletics and I can use myself as an example, at my peak in the mid 2010s I was bouncing around the world top 100, mainly on the outside in my event. If we took my abilities at my peak which were not amazing honestly and compared them to Olympic results in the 40s-60s I'd be an Olympic winner, world record holder, etc. 

 

At my best I was I guess above average but compare me to the "Best Olympic athletes of the 50s" and I'm a legend. I'm not a legend but just shows the difference in how spots have grown. 

[Shakespeare]

1 hour ago, gvogel said:

Hold on there.  Snead was playing with a wound rubber ball, balata cover, same as was played basically from 1905 to 1997.  Yes, there were refinements, but the best players played balata into the 1990's.

True...but Sam stopped playing in the early 70's...and I cut a balata ball with a 3 wood back then...on a good shot..lol

[Shakespeare]

1 hour ago, gvogel said:

Hold on there.  Snead was playing with a wound rubber ball, balata cover, same as was played basically from 1905 to 1997.  Yes, there were refinements, but the best players played balata into the 1990's.

True...but Sam stopped playing in the early 70's...and I cut a balata ball with a 3 wood back then...on a good shot..lol

Edited July 26, 2021 by Shakespeare
Duplicate

[m d g]

Wrx'er baller WITB circa 1890:

 

Driver: 110cc, Premium hickory shaft, 200g (x-whip). Carry: 150 yards.

5-iron: Iron head hand-hammered by Angus the blacksmith, Standard hickory, 210g (med. whip). Carry: 100 yards.

Putter: A stick with a funny curve in it I found under a tree.

Ball: Whatever I stitched up the night before the game.

 

Non-WRX'er WITB: Golf clubs? Who has time for golf? I'm just trying not to starve to death.

[bscinstnct]

45 minutes ago, TiScape said:

Yes it is. But it was the best they could put on the court at that time. So are the athletes of today bigger, stronger and faster than their 1950s counterparts… 💯 Absolutely, now why is a completely different conversation. 

 

I like this analogy. I think it applies to most sports. 
 

 

Let’s say you have 2 sand boxes. One has one perfect diamond. The other has 20 perfect diamonds. But the perfect diamonds are all identical.

 

Youll find more perfect diamonds in the second box. But none will be better than the one you find in the first. Perhaps very slightly, but maybe not at all.

 

 

This is how I see sports now. There are more guys as good as Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays on the field. But none of them is any better than those guys.

 

Different training and coaching. But you drop a young Mantle into the MLB and he puts up as good numbers as anybody. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by bscinstnct

[ChrisL52188]

5 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

Sam Snead won his first pga tour event in 1936

 

He won his last in 1965

 

He had 3 top 10s including 2 top 5 finishes in the PGA Championship in 1972, 1973, 1974 (T3) 

 

Sam was in his 60s for those finishes. Imagine the equipment adaptations he made over the years , lol
 

So, it’s like I say about TW

 

If a 62 year old, Social Security eligible 🤣, Snead can do a T3 at the 1974 PGA Championship, finished right behind Jack (2nd) and Trevino (winner). 

 

Imagine what a 25 year old Sam Snead does out there today ; )

 

That's tells you just how incredibly talented and amazing longevity of Sam Snead. If he could putt as well as he could hit it... He would have won 6 US Opens easy. 

[bscinstnct]

Just now, ChrisL52188 said:

That's tells you just how incredibly talented and amazing longevity of Sam Snead. If he could putt as well as he could hit it... He would have won 6 US Opens easy. 

 

It also speaks to any notion that athletes have “evolved”. Snead and Keopka both about 6 foot, 180 naturally. You have more guys Koepkas size and athleticism now. But I’m think Snead is actually a better athlete really. 

[ChrisL52188]

1 minute ago, bscinstnct said:

 

It also speaks to any notion that athletes have “evolved”. Snead and Keopka both about 6 foot, 180 naturally. You have more guys Koepkas size and athleticism now. But I’m think Snead is actually a better athlete really. 

Sam could kick a top of door frame at age 70. That's absolutely awesome. Not many people are gonna so that. 

[miamistomp]

4 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

It also speaks to any notion that athletes have “evolved”. Snead and Keopka both about 6 foot, 180 naturally. You have more guys Koepkas size and athleticism now. But I’m think Snead is actually a better athlete really. 

 Absolutely Snead the better athlete

 

Also , Brooks has had more major injuries at a young age  than Snead had in his entire life

[Shilgy]

21 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

I like this analogy. I think it applies to most sports. 
 

 

Let’s say you have 2 sand boxes. One has one perfect diamond. The other has 20 perfect diamonds. But the perfect diamonds are all identical.

 

Youll find more perfect diamonds in the second box. But none will be better than the one you find in the first. Perhaps very slightly, but maybe not at all.

 

 

This is how I see sports now. There are more guys as good as Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays on the field. But none of them is any better than those guys.

 

Different training and coaching. But you drop a young Mantle into the MLB and he puts up as good numbers as anybody. 

Mantle would be a heck of a player today.  But with the media these days could he have stayed out of rehab?  Perhaps with modern medical technology he would have been even better as his knee issues would have been better repaired.

 

The biggest difference in a sport like baseball is the batters are facing, in most games, three or four fresh pitchers bringing heat rather than one tired starter.

[bscinstnct]

10 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Mantle would be a heck of a player today.  But with the media these days could he have stayed out of rehab?  Perhaps with modern medical technology he would have been even better as his knee issues would have been better repaired.

 

The biggest difference in a sport like baseball is the batters are facing, in most games, three or four fresh pitchers bringing heat rather than one tired starter.

 

Yeah, well, Mickey had some tricks of his own ; )

 

 

 

 

[chippa13]

32 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Mantle would be a heck of a player today.  But with the media these days could he have stayed out of rehab?  Perhaps with modern medical technology he would have been even better as his knee issues would have been better repaired.

 

The biggest difference in a sport like baseball is the batters are facing, in most games, three or four fresh pitchers bringing heat rather than one tired starter.

Nolan Ryan was never a tired starter.

[bladehunter]

5 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

Nolan Ryan was never a tired starter.

Did somebody say Nolan Ryan.  I’ll just leave this one right here.  Absolutely my favorite baseball highlight.   He also goes back to pitching after this.  Today’s pitchers can’t even handle throwing the ball.  🤦‍♂️  He beat the brakes off young Robin.  
 

 

 

[Go Cougs]

11 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

Nolan Ryan was never a tired starter.

Just recently happened to watch a youtube vid of Nolan Ryan in an allstar game.  The announcer mentioned how he was pitching on 3 days rest...meaning that he was well rested, not on short rest like the comment would be meant today.  Anyway Ryan blew away the first 3 batters he faced on nothing but fastballs.  Dude was a beast.

[Hawkeye77]

11 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Did somebody say Nolan Ryan.  I’ll just leave this one right here.  Absolutely my favorite baseball highlight.   He also goes back to pitching after this.  Today’s pitchers can’t even handle throwing the ball.  🤦‍♂️  He beat the brakes off young Robin.  
 

 

 

 

Saw him pitch up close in spring training on a crappy field near the stadium in Winter Haven where the Red Sox were located.  Windup, release with a noticeable groan/grunt and pure heat.  Never had seen anything like it.  Wasn't really even an official spring training game as such - Jim Rice kind of looked like he'd put on 30 over Christmas and sort of sauntered around the outfield when he was out, lol, shirt partly unbuttoned.  Ryan was something else.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[TiScape]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Different training and coaching. But you drop a young Mantle into the MLB and he puts up as good numbers as anybody. 

Definitely probably!  Haha

Unfortunately we will never know. It is hitting a baseball and not a ton has changed there. Velo and spin rate is definitely up in today’s game as compared to the 50s. Some guys in the 50s threw hard sure, difference is now they all seem to throw really hard and have crazy spin rates. But Mantle was a generational hitter. So if anyone is adapting and competing now, he’s very high on the list!

[TiScape]

32 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Did somebody say Nolan Ryan.  I’ll just leave this one right here.  Absolutely my favorite baseball highlight.   He also goes back to pitching after this.  Today’s pitchers can’t even handle throwing the ball.  🤦‍♂️  He beat the brakes off young Robin.  
 

 

 

Such a stud. Had the fortune in 1990 to witness one of his 7 no hitters in person. He was 43 years old at the time. Amazing. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by TiScape

[bscinstnct]

17 minutes ago, TiScape said:

Definitely probably!  Haha

Unfortunately we will never know. It is hitting a baseball and not a ton has changed there. Velo and spin rate is definitely up in today’s game as compared to the 50s. Some guys in the 50s threw hard sure, difference is now they all seem to throw really hard and have crazy spin rates. But Mantle was a generational hitter. So if anyone is adapting and competing now, he’s very high on the list!

 

Yes, pitching is higher quality overall and more challenging. 
 

Then again, the hitters  now have insane technology and coaching specialization. 
 

Not to mention 

 

Roids!

 

🤣

[TiScape]

2 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Yes, pitching is higher quality overall and more challenging. 
 

Then again, the hitters  now have insane technology and coaching specialization. 
 

Not to mention 

 

Roids!

 

🤣

Hey, I said guys today are bigger, faster, quicker and stronger! Said “how” was a whole different convo. On a few levels! Haha

[TiScape]

Let’s use your sandbox analogy for NFL linemen of the 50s and today! That 50s diamond is coming out a cubic zirconia! 😂 
 

Sandbox analogy is interesting/plausible for baseball. I don’t think it holds up when comparing the NFL and NBA of the 50s to today though. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by TiScape

[Shilgy]

59 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

Nolan Ryan was never a tired starter.

Perhaps not. He was awesome.  But at the end of a game the velocity may be the same but the movement lessens.  Major league hitters tend to be able to hit heat but heat with movement is more difficult.  Couple that with the different looks and release points of various pitchers batters need to face today and we are virtually back to the late 60’s with pitching dominance in MLB. They really cannot lower the mound again I wouldn’t think so it will be an interesting offseason.  MLB seems disinclined to have the path the game seems to be on with so few batted balls and base runners.  I believe it was Dust Baker a couple months back that pointed out a game that had zero batted balls in play until the 5th inning.  I love a good pitchers duel but that is taking it to the extreme.

[TiScape]

7 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Perhaps not. He was awesome.  But at the end of a game the velocity may be the same but the movement lessens.  Major league hitters tend to be able to hit heat but heat with movement is more difficult.  Couple that with the different looks and release points of various pitchers batters need to face today and we are virtually back to the late 60’s with pitching dominance in MLB. They really cannot lower the mound again I wouldn’t think so it will be an interesting offseason.  MLB seems disinclined to have the path the game seems to be on with so few batted balls and base runners.  I believe it was Dust Baker a couple months back that pointed out a game that had zero batted balls in play until the 5th inning.  I love a good pitchers duel but that is taking it to the extreme.

Modern MLB pitchers are just plain nasty! 97mph sinkers… Uh, good luck! 😬

[Pepperturbo]

What happened in the past is history, who accomplished what is history as well.  History and what people did back when should NOT be compared to today.  We either have the capacity to learn from history or mentally unhealthy enough to relive it.  One thing is sure, it's not to be changed cause we don't like what it implies or exhibits. 

[Shilgy]

5 minutes ago, TiScape said:

Modern MLB pitchers are just plain nasty! 97mph sinkers… Uh, good luck! 😬

 

[TiScape]

2 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

 

Oh man. Look at some of those filthy change ups… And then think some of those same guys also have 96+ in the tank. So you’re sitting there on a 96+ FB and that change up comes, or vice versa??? Almost not fair. 

[bscinstnct]

21 minutes ago, TiScape said:

Let’s use your sandbox analogy for NFL linemen of the 50s and today! That 50s diamond is coming out a cubic zirconia! 😂 
 

Sandbox analogy is interesting/plausible for baseball. I don’t think it holds up when comparing the NFL and NBA of the 50s to today though. 

 

Yes, well, as we know, cultural dynamics did not enable a great wealth of talent to play on the NFL and NBA and it took decades for the changes to manifest into the talent we see now.

 

But, the talent out there is miles away in those sports now and that’s the bottom line.

 

However, you still got

 

Butkus!

 

6’3 250, never touched a weight

 

Drop a young DB into a current NFL program of fitness, diet, training, and “supplements” and he’s a

 

Roaming Merchant of Death!!

 

 

 

 

[Shilgy]

Hey @bscinstnctrather than Merchant of Death you could have said Lawrence Taylor.😂

[bscinstnct]

7 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Hey @bscinstnctrather than Merchant of Death you could have said Lawrence Taylor.😂

 

Lawrence Taylor?

 

Lawrence Taylor?!

 

LT is the nightmare that death himself runs from in fear…but cannot escape!

 

And alas, here it is…the greatest video of the greatest athlete to walk the planet 🌍!!

 

Crank the volume and weep for his prey 

 

Oh, you click gotta “watch on YouTube”. But worth it!

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by bscinstnct

[bladehunter]

20 minutes ago, TiScape said:

Modern MLB pitchers are just plain nasty! 97mph sinkers… Uh, good luck! 😬

They should enact a 2 pitchers per game rule.  A 3rd in case of emergency medical event only ( carried out on a stretcher or breaking a bone etc ). That will surely see more batted  balls.