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Lofts and lies done, clubs damaged. Looking for insight from experts.


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As some have said, the face markings are a non issue. I'm surprised they didn't clean it off before giving them back to you. The deeper dents were caused by the tech not rotating the brass clamping pads to allow proper clearance from the frame of the bending machine. Dumb mistake and they should compensate some. New set of irons is beyond expectations though. The slight stuff shown on the PW and the backs of the 9,7 & 6 are completely normal. The club DOES have to be clamped very tightly to avoid movement (which can cause BIG damage). That damage will be invisible after a season of play.

 

BT

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6 minutes ago, animalgolfs said:

Did you ask beforehand about any possible cosmetic blemishes,  that might occur? I see you read about the process....Did you buy chance ask the club person about your concerns? 

 

While I don't think him getting new clubs is reasonable, I also don't think it's on the customer to ask questions like this.  Whoever is bending should be the one to bring up the potential risks.  They're supposed to be the experts and it's a CYA for them.  The guy who bends my clubs and checks them always gives me the spiel and I've been using him for years. 

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I wouldn’t expect more than an apology from the staff.  It’s absurd to think that they should replace the set as you described, even if they did as lousy of a job as they did.  

 

There is an reasonable expectation for the iron heads to be marred when doing loft/lie adjustments.

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33 minutes ago, scooterhd2 said:

1. get your money back for the adjustment. 

2. have them sell you a set at wholesale, factory adjusted to your specs.
3. sell your beat up set on ebay and try to break even out of it all. 

Chances are his new set from mizuno won’t be right anyway.  

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3 hours ago, kerrlybill said:

Hello,

 

I took my irons to my proshop to get lofts checked, and to adjust lie angles.  I went to pick them up yesterday after I left the office, but the club builder and GM had left for the day.  

 

I immediately noticed the significant dents near each number.  I notified the employee working the proshop and he said he would get the builder to reach out to me.  Once I got home, I noticed far more damage.  I have provided a link below where you can view pictures of each iron.  Some pictures don't fully capture the extent of the damage but you should be able to get a good idea.  

 

For your information, the irons have about 10ish rounds on them and were 9.9 out of 10 when I dropped them off this weekend.  They are in an Ogio Chamber bag to reduce chatter and are meticulously cleaned between shots.  

 

Please tell me that I am not being unreasonable for this being a very unreasonable amount of damage from being adjusted.  If could share your thoughts on why you think this happened as well, that would be appreciated.  I would like to be armed with information when I go to get this settled.

 

Thank you

 

PICS BELOW

https://imgur.com/a/dVqtnaM

 

And they did it to the best looking irons of the current release cycle, the JPX 921 Tours.  What a shame.

 

I'm not a club builder, I've never worked at a golf shop doing club work, I didn't go to club making school, I've never worked in a Tour Van....

 

I'm just a dude who found a Mitchell loft/lie machine on the cheap on craigslist two years ago who has now bent every single set of irons and wedges I've owned in the last 2 years (believe me, that's many sets) and have NEVER EVER come remotely close to leaving those kind of marks on any club before. In fact, I just did it to my very own JPX 921 Tours 2 weekends ago and mine show no marks. NONE.  This is complete carelessness and utter disregard for "someone else's" clubs  by this shop/builder. I'd be pissed if these were the clubs returned to me.

 

You have every right to demand a reasonable resolution, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to replace those clubs for wholesale costs, and then get what you can out of these.  Needless to say, you should also get your money back for this "work".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

20210727_152755.jpg

20210727_152926.jpg

20210727_153004.jpg

Edited by gibbiesmalls
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5 minutes ago, gibbiesmalls said:

 

And they did it to the best looking irons of the current release cycle, the JPX 921 Tours.  What a shame.

 

I'm not a club builder, I've never worked at a golf shop doing club work, I didn't go to club making school, I've never worked in a Tour Van....

 

I'm just a dude who found a Mitchell loft/lie machine on the cheap on craigslist two years ago who has now bent every single set of irons and wedges I've owned in the last 2 years (believe me, that's many sets) and have NEVER EVER come remotely close to leaving those kind of marks on any club before. In fact, I just did it to my very own JPX 921 Tours 2 weekends ago and mine show no marks. NONE.  This is complete carelessness and utter disregard for "someone else's" clubs  by this shop/builder. I'd be pissed if these were the clubs returned to me.

 

You have every right to demand a reasonable resolution, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to replace those clubs for wholesale costs, and then get what you can out of these.  Needless to say, you should also get your money back for this "work".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you.  I'm in complete awe that some people are okay with this "workmanship" and fully expect that I should bend over a barrel and accept it .  I'm not a typical WRX guy (owning multiple sets of iron per season) but I have been around the game for 20+ years and worked at a golf course during university.  Yes, this is the first time I have had my lies adjusted that didn't come straight from the factory.  Plenty of my friends have had this done and I have never seen results like this before.  I know crappy work when I see it, and I certainly wouldn't hand these back to someone and expect them to love the results.   

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1 minute ago, kerrlybill said:

 

Thank you.  I'm in complete awe that some people are okay with this "workmanship" and fully expect that I should bend over a barrel and accept it .  I'm not a typical WRX guy (owning multiple sets of iron per season) but I have been around the game for 20+ years and worked at a golf course during university.  Yes, this is the first time I have had my lies adjusted that didn't come straight from the factory.  Plenty of my friends have had this done and I have never seen results like this before.  I know crappy work when I see it, and I certainly wouldn't hand these back to someone and expect them to love the results.   

 

Yeah, I bet every one of those persons wouldn't feel the same way if their custom loft/lie adjustment orders came looking like that straight from the OEM.  Bet they'd feel a little different about the "tools not jewels" comments then.

 

Fact is OEMs adjust loft and lie on thousands of custom orders or to get manufacturing tolerances back to standard so we know it's possible to bend irons without this "workmanship".

 

Good luck bud.

 

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3 minutes ago, gibbiesmalls said:

 

Yeah, I bet every one of those persons wouldn't feel the same way if their custom loft/lie adjustment orders came looking like that straight from the OEM.  Bet they'd feel a little different about the "tools not jewels" comments then.

 

Fact is OEMs adjust loft and lie on thousands of custom orders or to get manufacturing tolerances back to standard so we know it's possible to bend irons without this "workmanship".

 

Good luck bud.

 

I agree.  Thanks.  I appreciate it. 

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Given that I've owned some very soft forged irons and have made a couple spec changes over the years and done some experimentation, I'm sure that I've had iron sets bent well over a dozen times. I've never found a dent on a single club afterward. It isn't unreasonable of you to expect the work done without actual damage. The face discoloration is a bit different, but I'm a big "tools not jewels" believer yet I still don't expect to see dents.

 

While I agree with the point about cultivating a relationship or doing it yourself, my experience includes a few different techs doing the bending, none of whom have dented my clubs.

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I had a set done where they actually crushed the top of the hosel on some and left dents all over them. We had a lot of words and I found out the owners son did them, long story short they gave me full callaway trade value against the new TCB's which I told him to not touch unless I was present. The owner himself checked them in front of me on arrival and did not so much as scratch one in the process.

 

Piss poor work should never be excepted as it just opens the door for the next person to get screwed over. I am not completely on board with the "tools not jewels" thought process, we all pay a lot of money for clubs and sure they will get dinged but not every club in the same place. Unless it is a goat track muni pro shop the people should be able to do quality work or not offer the service.

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Yeah that's an embarrassing job, hilarious people think that's ok or acceptable in any way. Hopefully the club can make it right.

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Im a pretty laid back guy but those dings would drive me nuts. I would raise hell just for the sake of raising hell. They need to hear it. This was a complete failure. I would NEVER trust my club to do my club repairs. The guys doing the work at my club are the same guys hanging polos and hats in the pro shop. I will only trust reputable guys with experience.

 

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7 hours ago, gibbiesmalls said:

 

And they did it to the best looking irons of the current release cycle, the JPX 921 Tours.  What a shame.

 

I'm not a club builder, I've never worked at a golf shop doing club work, I didn't go to club making school, I've never worked in a Tour Van....

 

I'm just a dude who found a Mitchell loft/lie machine on the cheap on craigslist two years ago who has now bent every single set of irons and wedges I've owned in the last 2 years (believe me, that's many sets) and have NEVER EVER come remotely close to leaving those kind of marks on any club before. In fact, I just did it to my very own JPX 921 Tours 2 weekends ago and mine show no marks. NONE.  This is complete carelessness and utter disregard for "someone else's" clubs  by this shop/builder. I'd be pissed if these were the clubs returned to me.

 

You have every right to demand a reasonable resolution, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to replace those clubs for wholesale costs, and then get what you can out of these.  Needless to say, you should also get your money back for this "work".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

20210727_152755.jpg

20210727_152926.jpg

20210727_153004.jpg

 

Nice ferrules!  Not from factory I presume ?

Also, what happened to the label on the 7i?

Edited by mrshinsa
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As many have said, this was a sloppy, unprofessional hack job.

 

I learned my lesson the hard way, too. Now I either send my Mizunos to Mizuno in Georgia (because they never leave a mark) or I tape them up myself before giving them to someone I trust.

 

In this case, I wouldn't expect more satisfaction than an apology, but if Mizuno had done this in their repair shop, I have absolutely no doubt they'd replace them.

 

 

 

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Damn bro, sorry to see that happened to you. Those are still some sweet sticks. I agree with you, that’s bogus. I’m a fabricator and machinist. I don’t build golf clubs, but if I sent product out the door that looked like that I’d get my scalp peeled back. I’m with you that I meticulously keep my golf clubs pristine. You don’t skimp on quality though. I think a refund at the very least is in order if you were guaranteed that it would get pulled off without a problem. Sorry to see that.

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I don't anyone is happy or okay with the work

But you have to understand what youre dealing with

 

You're assuming that your shop at your course knows what they're doing, you're comparing them to world class builders and shops. Some kid from the cart bard probably did these....

And that right there is a problem

 

If you care about your sticks this much, you needed to care that much about who you took them to

Talk to the builder, etc

Seems like you talked to whoever but there was no mention of any of this

 

You would never take a nice car to some random shop you've never been to or confirmed their quality of work. 

 

The best part is youre assuming the loft and lies are right hahaha

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That is ridiculously crappy work.  You should be compensated for sure for this.  I am on board with the tools not jewels saying only if I am the one causing the dents and dings from use.  Telling you this is common and okay is not cool.  Hope it gets worked out for you OP.

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Pressure marks on forged irons are all but impossible to avoid, even with precautions at the pro shop level.

And ypur loft and lies will have to be checked and adjusted every so often.

The performance after the fitting adjustments should more than satisfy the blemishes that are commonplace.

Remember, tools not jewels.

Fully expect loft and lie adjustments to be needed in the future, 

Nature of the beast with forged irons.

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21 hours ago, Phabs said:

The markings on the face and the sole by the numbers is extemely common as stated above.   Every set of mizunos I’ve had adjusted come back with similar marks, just part of the process. 
 

The nicks on the backs of the heads I’d be pissed about. Have to remind myself these are tools not jewels sometimes.  

 

The set of Mizunos I did for you did not have any dings or dents. 😉

 

The black marks on the face seen in the pics should just wipe off with a degreaser or mineral spirits (a tiny bit of steel wool works also if necessary).

 

Any builder doing this kind of work should always offer the standard disclaimer that the potential for dings/dents/breaks exists for any loft/lie adjustment.  The nature of the metals involved and the "violence" required sometimes to achieve the bends makes it impossible to promise absolutely no markings.  I even used to go so far as making my customers sign a disclaimer, but ceased that procedure long ago and now I just put that in a message and remind them verbally about the risks.

 

All that said, this was just typical crappy work done on a crappy loft/lie machine.  These kinds of dents are completely avoidable with the right tools and due diligence during the process.  I wonder if the hosels also show some dents, as they weren't clearly shown in the pics.

 

So how do you protect yourself from this happening to your clubs?  Go in as an educated consumer.  Ask the shop about their loft/lie machine.  Ask to look at it if possible.  Ask them what kind of clamping mechanism they use for soft forged irons/wedges.  You don't even need to know a lot about this stuff; just listen to their responses to these questions and you should be able to assess whether the shop takes the necessary care to protect your valuable golf possessions. 🙂

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I expected to pull this thread and see pictures of normal marks from the bending bar or some scuff marks and someone being completely unreasonable thinking there would be no marls on a club when bending them.

 

What I found was what is expected EVERYWHERE, except the "dents" on the sole and some on the back of the head.  Those are completely unacceptable.

 

I went to a Golf Smith club building school in the early 2000's and spent some time with a great club fitter and learned from him.  I AM NOT A PROFESSIONAL.  However in the last 10+ years since I bought my Mitchell machine on ebay, I have bent at least 15 sets of my own clubs.  Plus another 10 or so for friends, and a new set of wedges roughly every year (minimum of three clubs).  I have bent everything from Mizuno, to Bridgestone, to Srixon, to Rogue, to Apex, to Ping, to Sub 70, to P790, to Cobra (MiM), and even the cast Cobras.  

 

I have never put masking tape on a club, I have never done anything other than clamp, bend, remove, measure and possibly re-clamp and bend more when doing a club.  I have never made any kinds of marks like those on the sole and backs of his irons.  Nor have I ever seen any professionally bent clubs have marks like those.  

 

I agree that irons dig into the ground and that there are sometimes rocks in the ground and irons get nicked up by those rocks.  They do not remain pretty forever, however those marks show someone that has no clue how to bend an iron.  Whether they loaded the club improperly, or clamped too tightly, or were put into a crappy bending machine it doesn't matter.  They screwed up.

 

I bought my machine because of how I always have to move lofts and lies around because of the weird lengths I have always played my irons, seeing this work makes me glad not from only time and money being spent to do it, but also from an idiot perspective.

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