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Lofts and lies done, clubs damaged. Looking for insight from experts.


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On 7/27/2021 at 2:07 PM, kerrlybill said:

Hello,

 

I took my irons to my proshop to get lofts checked, and to adjust lie angles.  I went to pick them up yesterday after I left the office, but the club builder and GM had left for the day.  

 

I immediately noticed the significant dents near each number.  I notified the employee working the proshop and he said he would get the builder to reach out to me.  Once I got home, I noticed far more damage.  I have provided a link below where you can view pictures of each iron.  Some pictures don't fully capture the extent of the damage but you should be able to get a good idea.  

 

For your information, the irons have about 10ish rounds on them and were 9.9 out of 10 when I dropped them off this weekend.  They are in an Ogio Chamber bag to reduce chatter and are meticulously cleaned between shots.  

 

Please tell me that I am not being unreasonable for this being a very unreasonable amount of damage from being adjusted.  If could share your thoughts on why you think this happened as well, that would be appreciated.  I would like to be armed with information when I go to get this settled.

 

Thank you

 

PICS BELOW

https://imgur.com/a/dVqtnaM

You are being unreasonable. Golf clubs are metal tools, not an engagement ring. I hate marks on my clubs as much as the next guy, but you are being ridiculous. 

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2 hours ago, Noodler said:

 

The set of Mizunos I did for you did not have any dings or dents. 😉

No they did not.   First set of mizunos ive ever had adjusted that didn’t. 

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2 hours ago, driveandputtmachine said:

I expected to pull this thread and see pictures of normal marks from the bending bar or some scuff marks and someone being completely unreasonable thinking there would be no marls on a club when bending them.

 

What I found was what is expected EVERYWHERE, except the "dents" on the sole and some on the back of the head.  Those are completely unacceptable.

 

I went to a Golf Smith club building school in the early 2000's and spent some time with a great club fitter and learned from him.  I AM NOT A PROFESSIONAL.  However in the last 10+ years since I bought my Mitchell machine on ebay, I have bent at least 15 sets of my own clubs.  Plus another 10 or so for friends, and a new set of wedges roughly every year (minimum of three clubs).  I have bent everything from Mizuno, to Bridgestone, to Srixon, to Rogue, to Apex, to Ping, to Sub 70, to P790, to Cobra (MiM), and even the cast Cobras.  

 

I have never put masking tape on a club, I have never done anything other than clamp, bend, remove, measure and possibly re-clamp and bend more when doing a club.  I have never made any kinds of marks like those on the sole and backs of his irons.  Nor have I ever seen any professionally bent clubs have marks like those.  

 

I agree that irons dig into the ground and that there are sometimes rocks in the ground and irons get nicked up by those rocks.  They do not remain pretty forever, however those marks show someone that has no clue how to bend an iron.  Whether they loaded the club improperly, or clamped too tightly, or were put into a crappy bending machine it doesn't matter.  They screwed up.

 

I bought my machine because of how I always have to move lofts and lies around because of the weird lengths I have always played my irons, seeing this work makes me glad not from only time and money being spent to do it, but also from an idiot perspective.

 

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Just now, GLF4EVR said:

 

Just to give ya a "thanks" for this post.  That is where I fall into it.  Neighbor eventually sold me his Mitchell machine a couple of years ago.  Have done my own irons many times.  Recheck everything at the start of the season.  So have used it for at least 7 years and have done a least 3 sets of my friends irons.  The only mark I have ever put on one was the first time I did my iron set.  I did not "fit" the brass shoe on the hosel that well with the bending bar & left a small mark on the back side of the hosel.  Kind of like you, I was taught club building by someone that had attended the Golf Smith school.

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The tools not jewels argument just doesn't wash. It's poor, inexperienced bending. I don't know what machine was used but the dings on the sole are unacceptable. You would normally be warned pre bending of the possibility of some marring due to the softness of a forging but every effort should be made by the club fitter to return your clubs in the same condition.

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Has anyone at your home club responded to your email yet?

 

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20 hours ago, Yoshifan151 said:

Yeah that's an embarrassing job, hilarious people think that's ok or acceptable in any way. Hopefully the club can make it right.

 

8 hours ago, Doaner84 said:

That is ridiculously crappy work.  You should be compensated for sure for this.  I am on board with the tools not jewels saying only if I am the one causing the dents and dings from use.  Telling you this is common and okay is not cool.  Hope it gets worked out for you OP.

 

Everyone is in agreement that the shop did an incredibly sloppy/careless job.  The fact that they didn't even bother to clean off the faces (regardless of the dents) shows the level of care they put into the work.

 

The debate is over what OP can realistically expect the shop to do about this now (not what should be done in a perfect world for OP).  A lot of this comes down how much OP's business/approval is worth, and many people think for an average situation anything more than a refund (and maybe a new set sold at cost) is unrealistic.

Edited by cadoipi
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46 minutes ago, cadoipi said:

 

 

Everyone is in agreement that the shop did an incredibly sloppy/careless job.  The fact that they didn't even bother to clean off the faces (regardless of the dents) shows the level of care they put into the work.

 

The debate is over what OP can realistically expect the shop to do about this now (not what should be done in a perfect world for OP).  A lot of this comes down how much OP's business/approval is worth, and many people think for an average situation anything more than a refund (and maybe a new set sold at cost) is unrealistic.


You should write summaries for a living. If there were a Pulitzer for that category, I’m confident that you’d receive a nomination.

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I really hope your home club doesn’t have fairway bunkers. Sorry but bending your irons sometimes leaves a little proof. Two months from now you won’t even see those marks. 

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Sloppy work indeed. But, you are asking them to bend/tweak something that is somewhat soft anyway. You should expect some markings. Granted, these look a bit severe. But, another 10 rounds with those irons and you probably won't be able to see anything. 

 

There is zero chance you will get any new equipment through a warranty or anything like that, so don't even bother going down that road with them. Tell them you're pissed about it and maybe they'll give you a dozen free balls and pay your tab at the bar.

 

They are just irons, you'll be fine. Get over it. 

 

 

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14 hours ago, MakersMarsh3 said:

I don't anyone is happy or okay with the work

But you have to understand what youre dealing with

 

You're assuming that your shop at your course knows what they're doing, you're comparing them to world class builders and shops. Some kid from the cart bard probably did these....

And that right there is a problem

 

If you care about your sticks this much, you needed to care that much about who you took them to

Talk to the builder, etc

Seems like you talked to whoever but there was no mention of any of this

 

You would never take a nice car to some random shop you've never been to or confirmed their quality of work. 

 

The best part is youre assuming the loft and lies are right hahaha

The only one assuming anything here is you.

 

I spoke with the GM and fitter/builder at the same time and was assured they could get the job done.  I don’t live in a huge metro area.  I live in a very small city in Canada so my options are limited. I’m certainly not taking them to Golf Town.  
 

Where did I say I thought that the lies and lofts were correct?  I’m already in talks with another guy to check that for me.  

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13 hours ago, JeffreySpicoli said:


Because they come to the Internet looking for solace and balm for their righteous indignation. 
 

Anything short of that just makes them more angry. Hopefully, they don’t redirect that big ball of anger to their partner or pet.

Where’s the anger. It’s just a conversation and it’s fine to disagree with someone’s opinion.  Anyone who would be okay with is hard to fathom.  

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9 hours ago, liveagua said:

You are being unreasonable. Golf clubs are metal tools, not an engagement ring. I hate marks on my clubs as much as the next guy, but you are being ridiculous. 

If this was true, all clubs would look like a Craftsman wrench.  Unfortunately what may be true for you isn’t true for the masses.  There’s thread after thread on here of people fawning over the looks of certain clubs.  I take care of my possessions and expect a reasonable level of care taken for when paying someone to provide a service.   I would be fine with a few small marks here and there but this is not reasonable and many experienced people in this thread agree.  

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1 hour ago, seth514 said:

Sloppy work indeed. But, you are asking them to bend/tweak something that is somewhat soft anyway. You should expect some markings. Granted, these look a bit severe. But, another 10 rounds with those irons and you probably won't be able to see anything. 

 

There is zero chance you will get any new equipment through a warranty or anything like that, so don't even bother going down that road with them. Tell them you're pissed about it and maybe they'll give you a dozen free balls and pay your tab at the bar.

 

They are just irons, you'll be fine. Get over it. 

 

 

My last set of forged irons that I had for 6 years never had any dents close to this severe so I respectfully disagree.  
 

I’m not asking for free equipment so I’m not too worried about it. 
 

 

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Shoddy workmanship at its finest. I'd be livid.

 

No skill, care or common sense has been afforded to this adjustment job !

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By the way, of I read this correctly, it was at your home club? 

 

Take your complaints out of the pro shop, and up to club management. Is your club part of a corp? Take it to corp headquarters. Etc. 

 

No way I'd let that ride, and exactly the reason I learned to bend clubs and bought my own machine...

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Like others have said I was expecting to see VERY MINOR indents on the sole or hosel but that is unacceptable.  I check and adjust my own clubs using a basic Golf Mechanix loft/lie machine. I have never caused that level of damage to any of my clubs and I am not trained as a club builder.  The face sits flat so I don't see how that can happen unless the head is not clamped correctly.

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8 hours ago, kerrlybill said:

The only one assuming anything here is you.

 

I spoke with the GM and fitter/builder at the same time and was assured they could get the job done.  I don’t live in a huge metro area.  I live in a very small city in Canada so my options are limited. I’m certainly not taking them to Golf Town.  
 

Where did I say I thought that the lies and lofts were correct?  I’m already in talks with another guy to check that for me.  

I mean technically they got the job done?? Lofts and lies were changed

You never talked about level of standard you wanted. You talked about everything but the care of your clubs it seems, even though that really matters to you...

How much work does this shop do??? Are they a legit shop 100% dedicated to only clubs with a full time fitter/builder? 

If you talked directly to fitter, how does this not come up in the conversation???

 

 

Options are limited but you have another option......

 

Imagine taking your high end car that you really care about to a random shop...... come on man

You better be a long standing, high spending, really important member to be asking for everything youre asking for

 

Good luck brotha

I do think golf town probably would have done a better job, just a FYI

 

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I do not have my machine anymore, but when I did I explicitly explained that clubs can be damaged during bending.  It is really hard to not make some kind of a mark somewhere on a forged head no matter how careful you are.  And cast clubs that are hard to bend, be warned.

 

Every place I have ever gone to to have clubs bent have also stated the obvious, especially Dick's.  They won't even bend some cast clubs period.

 

Obviously the person doing the bending didn't have a lot of experience.  Or the machine is old and worn.

 

Either way, it is just a small dent on the bottom of the club.  What are you going to do if you hit a small pebble and make a bigger mark?  I don't think I have ever had a set of clubs that didn't have marks on the soles from playing, especially my forged clubs.  My PXG forged irons already have more dings than your clubs and I haven't had them two months.  

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14 hours ago, mogc60 said:

I really hope your home club doesn’t have fairway bunkers. Sorry but bending your irons sometimes leaves a little proof. Two months from now you won’t even see those marks. 

My home club has waste areas full of pea gravel, I have delegated two clubs to get out (1 wedge and a 7i). Both look like they took flak blasts at this point. I love my ZX7s (which are goey soft), so I plan to buy a backup set (or two) shortly

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16 hours ago, vman said:

The tools not jewels argument just doesn't wash. It's poor, inexperienced bending. I don't know what machine was used but the dings on the sole are unacceptable. You would normally be warned pre bending of the possibility of some marring due to the softness of a forging but every effort should be made by the club fitter to return your clubs in the same condition.

I have a mitchell in the garage and have put the same sole dents near the iron number on soft irons (although perhaps not as bad) . The ones on the trailing edge lead me to believe they were using the rear brace when like likely really didnt need to (and perhaps had it in the wrong position). 

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2 hours ago, Krt22 said:

I have a mitchell in the garage and have put the same sole dents near the iron number on soft irons (although perhaps not as bad) . The ones on the trailing edge lead me to believe they were using the rear brace when like likely really didnt need to (and perhaps had it in the wrong position). 

 

Exactly.  For those who are on the "tools, not jewels" argument, those of us who actually have used loft/lie bending machines will note that the type and position of the dents in these specific clubs are a clear indicator that the operator was fairly clueless.  This isn't just normal bend marks due to the appropriate use of the tool, this situation was the result of pure ignorance.  There are marks you might expect to see versus those that clearly show poorly adjusted clamping or incorrect clamping being used.

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Seriously?! Those are all normal marks and to be expected on a forged club. I have a Mitchell L/L machine at home and it leaves those marks on forged clubs. It even leaves marks on cast clubs. The face marks should be able to be removed. 

 

If you don't like it, buy a L/L machine and do it yourself. It does not lessen the resale value at all. 

 

You are also not entitled to any type of discount, wholesale purchase or refund. That is absurd!

 

Just be glad you didn't take it to PGA, GG or one of those other places where they really butcher clubs.

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