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WEDGE GAME QUESTION -- ONLY for (current of former) PLAYING PROS and (current of former) TOURNAMENT-TESTED, LEGIT AMS


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On 7/27/2021 at 7:45 PM, Obee said:

Question for anyone who has played professionally, or at a high level as an amateur (frequently making cuts/contending at regional and/or national-level stuff):

 

How many of you (when you were playing at/near your best) consider(ed) your "80 to 130" game to be the best (or maybe second best?) part of your game relative to other, elite players of your caliber?

 

Questions forthcoming depending on how people respond....

80-130 is where the magic happens. Especially when we are talking 6800 yard courses. Most par 4s are 360-420 yards. You can't make birds if your not getting it inside 15ft. Online +/- 15ft @ 150 yards is mandatory id say, and distance control comes with feel and time.

 

One thing that can really help left right dispersion is a Preshot routine with an intermediate point.

Edited by N0rs3man
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I will also add that my +3 top 10 senior Am in the world buddy is unbelievable from 30-130, he eats shorter courses because he also drives it on a rope

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2 hours ago, jonsnow said:

Not remotely qualified to comment, but wanted to say I'm thoroughly enjoying this thread. Fascinating stuff...

Totally agree, but since I'm not qualified my clarification request apparently isn't getting answered, lol, by @Obee  😉 but guessing it's because I made the right assumption - always interesting to sit on the sidelines and get input from people that play at a different level whether up or down.  Hope there is more input.

 

Saw he posted about a driver shaft in another thread so hoping that means he can get out and play some.

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5 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Just a 6-7 and don't fit the parameters, but I'm scratch at not minding my own business, lol.  Just a question for clarification only - is this more about diving into some things related to high level players and wedges (which is what I think it is) or is the "wedge pulls" issue related to your son something the inquiry is or is also intended to resolve?  

Hopefully the first.  Otherwise, if his son genuinely hit most wedge shots 18-25 ft left/pulled he'd be smart enough to have the club bent of have his son aim more right...

 

Then again, there are some really world class players apparently in this thread who miss short/long more than left right, when mediocre players like Rory and JT end up hitting more offline with wedges more often than they do long/short...

 

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1 hour ago, cwilk said:

Hopefully the first.  Otherwise, if his son genuinely hit most wedge shots 18-25 ft left/pulled he'd be smart enough to have the club bent of have his son aim more right...

 

Then again, there are some really world class players apparently in this thread who miss short/long more than left right, when mediocre players like Rory and JT end up hitting more offline with wedges more often than they do long/short...

 

EvAhJSdXAAMPyuB?format=jpg&name=4096x409


 

to be fair, that wasn’t 80-130 yards. 
 

and anyone would get tired and/or bored hitting 50 shots in a row and have a few brain dead swings. 
 

but, we get it: you still don’t get it. 

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1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Totally agree, but since I'm not qualified my clarification request apparently isn't getting answered, lol, by @Obee  😉 but guessing it's because I made the right assumption - always interesting to sit on the sidelines and get input from people that play at a different level whether up or down.  Hope there is more input.

 

Saw he posted about a driver shaft in another thread so hoping that means he can get out and play some.

I guess it's like they say at Bushwood CC: "Some people just don't belong"...

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17 minutes ago, b.helts said:


 

to be fair, that wasn’t 80-130 yards. 
 

and anyone would get tired and/or bored hitting 50 shots in a row and have a few brain dead swings. 
 

but, we get it: you still don’t get it. 

To be fair, I just posted some general information and was met with hostile disrespect. 
 

That being said, based on the messages I’ve received here over the past 24 hrs, I think what “we get” is that a few posters in this thread are insufferable blowhards that are suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. 

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13 minutes ago, cwilk said:

To be fair, I just posted some general information and was met with hostile disrespect. 
 

That being said, based on the messages I’ve received here over the past 24 hrs, I think what “we get” is that a few posters in this thread are insufferable blowhards that are suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. 


That’s a possibility.

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1 hour ago, cwilk said:

To be fair, I just posted some general information and was met with hostile disrespect. 
 

That being said, based on the messages I’ve received here over the past 24 hrs, I think what “we get” is that a few posters in this thread are insufferable blowhards that are suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. 


I just asked a simple question in the original post....

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2 hours ago, cwilk said:

Hopefully the first.  Otherwise, if his son genuinely hit most wedge shots 18-25 ft left/pulled he'd be smart enough to have the club bent of have his son aim more right...

 

Then again, there are some really world class players apparently in this thread who miss short/long more than left right, when mediocre players like Rory and JT end up hitting more offline with wedges more often than they do long/short...

 

EvAhJSdXAAMPyuB?format=jpg&name=4096x409


how many shots did they each hit?

 

I did my 18-hole challenge a while ago.  Will dig that up and send you the dataWill dig that up and send you the data. That was hitting to different holes, pin locations, different winds and lies, etc. was a blast. 

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34 minutes ago, Obee said:


how many shots did they each hit?

 

I did my 18-hole challenge a while ago.  Will dig that up and send you the dataWill dig that up and send you the data. That was hitting to different holes, pin locations, different winds and lies, etc. was a blast. 

https://www.golfdigest.ie/news/rory-mcilroy-and-justin-thomas-had-100-attempts-to-make-a-hole-in-one-and-the-results-were-staggering

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I was never at the level that Obee’s  invites here, but anyways ….

 

I have played several serious am tournaments … and sometimes with very good players. Some get there by distance & scrambling, others get there by consistency and few mistakes. I’ve even seen it happen by strategy.  But all of them have a level of consistency that I never got close to. 

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11 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Just a 6-7 and don't fit the parameters, but I'm scratch at not minding my own business, lol.  Just a question for clarification only - is this more about diving into some things related to high level players and wedges (which is what I think it is) or is the "wedge pulls" issue related to your son something the inquiry is or is also intended to resolve?  

 

My son's wedge pulls just came up tangentially.

 

I want to see what the better wedge players' thought process/shot selection was/is versus the guys who feel/felt like wedges were NOT a strength.

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5 hours ago, cwilk said:

To be fair, I just posted some general information and was met with hostile disrespect. 
 

That being said, based on the messages I’ve received here over the past 24 hrs, I think what “we get” is that a few posters in this thread are insufferable blowhards that are suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. 

Im familiar with that video from a while back.  I think you have to consider their aim though. As in they’re trying to hole it.  It’s an entirely different thought over the ball vs saying “ inside 25 ft left of the pin “.  One is stressful.  One is very little stress.   I’d love to see them hit the sand number of balls to the Same pin , and the goal be “ don’t miss the green “. I’d bet anything the dispersion gets tighter .  

 

 

And I’m reforming myself from being the guy trying to hole every shot inside 170.  It’s just an unrealistic expectation.  And something lm growing out of.  
 

 

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1 hour ago, Obee said:

 

My son's wedge pulls just came up tangentially.

 

I want to see what the better wedge players' thought process/shot selection was/is versus the guys who feel/felt like wedges were NOT a strength.

While I don't consider my wedge play to be a strength, I also don't consider it to be a weakness either. I don't know that I do anything particularly great. Nothing really stands out....for my ability level. I'm probably a +1.5 now. 3 tournament rounds of -3, a round at -1, 2 rounds at +1, a 74, 79, 82. That's just this year. Played plenty of practice or non-comp rounds this year at a couple under. Was -4 through 15 last week before having to get my 7yr old home for dinner.

 

My thought process with my wedge game is pretty simple:

1. Very rarely hit a wedge hard. Only time is when I'm at a distance just past my top end and I'm down wind.

2. I have my yardages documented. 1/2, 3/4, and full yardages with all wedges (46-50-54-60). My "full" is probably 90% effort. I hit the shot that best serves the yardage based on pin position.

3. I try to flight wedges down. I rarely play the ball back, I just control release. I don't want the ball up in the air often.

4. I will draw a wedge if I need a touch more distance. I know I can get about 4 or 5 more yards on each documented carry yardage if i play the ball back about 2 balls and hit a little trapper. But if i don't need that shot then i try to cut my wedges. 

 

What I've found, recently, is that I'm not aggressive enough with my 54. That's my most versatile wedge but I tend to have a mindset of hitting it fairly low, getting a big hop, and stop. But greens in the summer in Florida don't produce that big hop. It's basically a mushy bounce forward and then gentle spin back. I'm often within a yard of my ballmark. 

 

I believe I'll be reminded of this post this weekend. Big 2 day event and I'll have a lot of wedges. Soft course. If I wedge it well then I'll walk away with the title. 

 

I've been threatening 67-68 all year. This thread may ignite that...

Edited by getitdaily
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13 hours ago, Obee said:

 

My son's wedge pulls just came up tangentially.

 

I want to see what the better wedge players' thought process/shot selection was/is versus the guys who feel/felt like wedges were NOT a strength.

 

Ultimately I'm comfortable at that range and certainly wouldn't avoid it, even if I didn't feel it was necessarily a strength when I was playing my best. When I went out on mini tours I immediately noticed I hit my wedges far too high and worked to bring the trajectory down. I also try to play with less spin generally (or at least attempt to), as a full wedge tends to rip back on me. 

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17 hours ago, cwilk said:

To be fair, I just posted some general information and was met with hostile disrespect. 
 

That being said, based on the messages I’ve received here over the past 24 hrs, I think what “we get” is that a few posters in this thread are insufferable blowhards that are suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. 

 

Oh the irony

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13 hours ago, Obee said:

 

My son's wedge pulls just came up tangentially.

 

I want to see what the better wedge players' thought process/shot selection was/is versus the guys who feel/felt like wedges were NOT a strength.

I'm not currently playing competitively, but I grew up playing a bunch of competitive junior and amateur golf. During those days I was very long off the tee and often had under 150 yards in on par 4s. Wedges were the strength of my game so I hope I can give you the answer you're looking for. 

 

From 115 yards and in I was pin high the majority of the time. My misses were both left and right of the target, but my distance control was usually very good. From 115 yards and in I was also much more feel than mechanical. I didn't focus on taking it back to certain points for certain yardages, but I know many excellent wedge players that had 3 distances for every wedge based on 75%, 90%, and 100% swings. It's all personal preference. Back pins I would play it back and flight it lower, front pins I would play more middle and take it over the pin and spin it back. Again, I am a heavy feel player with my wedges so this may not apply.

 

From 115-145 yards I would miss long, short, left, and right. A 3-5 yard circle around my target was probably a reasonable expectation. Left and right were the more common misses, but distance control wasn't as strong as 115 and in. Also, I was much more conservative with my target from this range. A full pitching wedge wasn't a green light if it was a tricky pin.

 

Lastly, I practiced this a TON. I probably spent half of my range sessions hitting a variety of wedge shots because I had those clubs in my hands so often. If your son is consistently missing left it is either mechanical or equipment related, IMO. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, MC21 said:

If your son is consistently missing left it is either mechanical or equipment related, IMO. 

 

 

I agree with this as well. Why not take one of his wedges and go 2* flatter than it is now as a starting point?

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Fairly competitive at the state level, so maybe not 100% qualified based on Obee's OP, but here goes:  I always considered my wedge play (more 40 and in but also the 80-130 range) to be the strength of my game, except when I had to hit the high floater from 80 and a bit further out.  I could trap draw the bullet-penetrating wedge all day long but as soon as I got to a good championship setup that maybe didn't allow for the first bounce and release that my preferred shot required, I'd be out of sorts, especially downwind.   

 

The best wedge players at my level (state/regional) seem to have mastered the low-speed smooth wedge that gets up there and falls out of the sky with minimal spin compared to myself, or even worse, the guys going full bore from 125 with SW and spinning it off greens.  Its a shot that I am trying to improve and incorporate every time I practice.

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Inside 130 is probably the only reason I am where I'm at, so just throwing a short comment. 

 

As a general note, I'm happiest when my stuff flies straight, and I care less when I miss it due to distance. I can adjust my pacing for distance, trajectory, and spin, and some days I'm simply not dialed in to hit distances. So I just make sure that if I'm generally long (and I'm usually long if I'm having an off day), I miss it to the correct part of the green. 

 

When I start having left / right dispersion I just check some basic stuff like alignment and setup and I dumb it down to basics, slow the pace and often start to club up until I get it back under control. 

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I may not qualify as a "legit am", as I have only started playing regional amateurs two years ago and just played my first national amateur this last week. I believe that from 80-130 is one of the weakest areas in my game, along with 6-15 foot putts. I tend to struggle with blocks and pulls on wedge shots. 

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On 7/28/2021 at 6:02 PM, GolfTurkey said:

Found something in the Pelz book. He has dispersion patterns for 7, 8 and 9 irons for tour pro's and the distance is correct and misses are left and right.

 

Then he has dispersion patterns for 40-60 yard shots where the accuracy is dead on and misses are long and short. 

 

It doesn't address the original 80-130 question because it's in the middle of these yardage! 

I believe this was the very premise of the short game bible.  With a full swing pros were off on side to side by about 5%, but with partial wedges, the distances were off by 23% if I remember correctly.  I want to say, and I haven't seen it for years, but it was before page 40 he had a matrix for pros and amateurs for shots traced.

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2 minutes ago, stingerfade said:

Thanks for ruining a thread. Get a clue bro 

Back at ya. 
 

ETA - Sorry math is so difficult for

a few of you. 

Edited by cwilk
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