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2021 Golf Ball Test


rkelso184
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1 minute ago, tsecor said:

dam!!! thats Ricky Fowler / Tommy Fleetwood speed right there.

I turn 56 this week. I'm a pretty big guy, 6'6" and 220, so I have long levers. Back in my younger days I was considering entering some long drive contests, was working with Pat Dempsey at his house, and was swinging a standard driver around 128-130, not sure what I was getting with his 48" drivers. I feel like I'm swinging about 75% speed when I'm playing, trying to keep it on the fairway! It's been a rough go the last few years, open heart surgery and a ruptured tricep has given me a few setbacks, but I'm 100% again finally.

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I know they normalized their shots to a certain extent (the temp and everything changed over the course of their test), but I don't think they normalized anything to sea level or 70 degrees. Hitting balls in Scotsdale (1300 feet of elevation) in 100 degree temperatures are going to go further than most of us are used to.

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16 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

:classic_laugh: I was perfectly willing to allow you the last word (as that seems to be your "thing"), even as wrong as it usually is (just as on our other issue), but then there's this.

 

"Misprint". Or "recorded THE result (singular) incorrectly". Nowhere did I suggest testers incorrectly recorded the results of hundreds of shots". :classic_rolleyes:

 

Once again I'd say "Nice try" but,,,,,,,,,,,, just another fail,,,,,,,,,,,,, as usual.  🤦‍♀️

 

 

 

You are very easy to trigger.  lol

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It's interesting that the Bridgestone Tour B RXS is 5 yards longer (carry distance) than the Tour B X and 10 yards longer than the Tour B XS for the high-speed hitters with the 8 iron.  The Tour B RX and RXS are supposed to be better for the slower swingers, not the faster ones.

 

Also interesting is that there's only about a 7 yard difference (carry distance) for the high speed hitters with the driver for the "premium" balls.  It would be even a smaller difference hitting the ball at sea level on a 75 degree day.

 

Similar carry distances differences with the mid and slow swings, too, for the premium balls.

 

It would have been interesting if they had the robot hit the balls at an ascending, neutral, and descending angle of attack with the driver.  That might have produced some more compelling differences.

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4 hours ago, ShowMe said:

You are very easy to trigger.  lol

 

So you admit to trolling other posters.

 

That's very mature of you. 👍

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23 minutes ago, ShowMe said:

It's interesting that the Bridgestone Tour B RXS is 5 yards longer (carry distance) than the Tour B X and 10 yards longer than the Tour B XS for the high-speed hitters with the 8 iron.  The Tour B RX and RXS are supposed to be better for the slower swingers, not the faster ones.

 

Also interesting is that there's only about a 7 yard difference (carry distance) for the high speed hitters with the driver for the "premium" balls.  It would be even a smaller difference hitting the ball at sea level on a 75 degree day.

 

Similar carry distances differences with the mid and slow swings, too, for the premium balls.

 

It would have been interesting if they had the robot hit the balls at an ascending, neutral, and descending angle of attack with the driver.  That might have produced some more compelling differences.

The similarities in driver carry distance doesn't surprise me one bit as they are all optimized to the same distance standard so its makes sense they would be fairly close with the same club delivery.

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4 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

So you admit to trolling other posters.

 

That's very mature of you. 👍

Lol.  I only troll the trolls.  Admittedly not very mature, but somebody has to keep you in line.  

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51 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

The similarities in driver carry distance doesn't surprise me one bit as they are all optimized to the same distance standard so its makes sense they would be fairly close with the same club delivery.

It sure does seem that way based on their data.  Makes you wonder if they'll bother doing future ball tests, since their data shows that it really doesn't matter much which ball their robot uses, as long as it's one of the premium ones.

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17 minutes ago, ShowMe said:

Lol.  I only troll the trolls.  Admittedly not very mature, but somebody has to keep you in line.  

 

So now we're down to "I'm rubber and you're glue" ???

 

I take back my (mature) compliment. :classic_laugh:

 

And now you can have that last word (again) that you enjoy so much.

 

You're welcome. 👍

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Ping G400 hybrids 17*, 19*, 70 gr Stock Stiff

Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, 52, 60, DGS300

Cally PM Grind 56 KBS Tour 115

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10 minutes ago, Naptime said:

The real differences between balls are small.  Because they don't use a zero based Y axis (the vertical one for the math challenged) on the graphs, small differences appear larger than they are.

Good point.  Looking at the graphs, the only real difference of note is in the spin rate.  For the Top 10 balls in the graphs, the ball speeds are all within 1 mph of each other, and the total distances are within a few yards of each other.  

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Titleist 816H2 23* Speeder HB 8.8 TS
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12 hours ago, ShowMe said:

It sure does seem that way based on their data.  Makes you wonder if they'll bother doing future ball tests, since their data shows that it really doesn't matter much which ball their robot uses, as long as it's one of the premium ones.

 

I think the still will because you still get funky results like the current tp5.

 

The general rules are higher compression=faster ball speed and lower compression=less spin with iron. Unless you design a ball to be in the extremes (like the left dash) all balls seem to follow this and the data is showing that. I think it may start being more beneficial to do things like wind tunnel testing, because if all the balls give similar ball speed/spin, the aerodynamics and how much the ball is affected by wind become the next big thing.

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12 hours ago, ShowMe said:

It sure does seem that way based on their data.  Makes you wonder if they'll bother doing future ball tests, since their data shows that it really doesn't matter much which ball their robot uses, as long as it's one of the premium ones.

 

That was my takeaway from the whole thing. The first big ball test they did was revealing in that there were several outliers in regards to quality/direction. This time around it seemed like all the balls were fairly consistent and the differences were minimal. I'd guess most golfers on here would be play exactly the same with a many of the balls listed....so it's really just down to personal preference.  Or to put it another way, I don't think players are losing strokes because of a 300 rpm spin difference on an 8 iron.  

 

It's finding that balance for between information (lots of balls fit a general profile) and too much information (i'm going to find the perfect golf ball for me based on this test).

 

The biggest takeaways for me is the balls that performed poorly last time and pushed their softer is shorter mantra like the Bridgestone RXS were strong performers this time.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, mantan said:

 

That was my takeaway from the whole thing. The first big ball test they did was revealing in that there were several outliers in regards to quality/direction. This time around it seemed like all the balls were fairly consistent and the differences were minimal. I'd guess most golfers on here would be play exactly the same with a many of the balls listed....so it's really just down to personal preference.  Or to put it another way, I don't think players are losing strokes because of a 300 rpm spin difference on an 8 iron.  

 

It's finding that balance for between information (lots of balls fit a general profile) and too much information (i'm going to find the perfect golf ball for me based on this test).

 

The biggest takeaways for me is the balls that performed poorly last time and pushed their softer is shorter mantra like the Bridgestone RXS were strong performers this time.

 

 

Well said.  The results yield better to generalities than to specifics.  Do I like a firm or soft ball and how might this effect me?  Am I giving up sizeable spin?  Am I value conscious and if so, is it worth the possible quality tradeoff?  Do I prefer a color ball and if so, what balls are eliminated?

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The data seems to support my strategy of stocking up on any premium ball at a drastic clearout price (like the 12 dozen Z Star XV I bought a couple years ago for $19-20/doz) and get to know that ball. If anything, I feel better grabbing some non-XV Z Stars now they they're all I can find on a big mark down, doesn't look like they'll be significantly different.

 

If anything, to me this test cuts through some of the marketing of different models for slightly different swings. Sure, an 85 SS vs a 115 SS will benefit from a certain ball but overall, the differences within most are slim, even between different models of the same balls, so I don't have to agonize over exactly which I need to hunt down.

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4 minutes ago, The Pearl said:

Well said.  The results yield better to generalities than to specifics.  Do I like a firm or soft ball and how might this effect me?  Am I giving up sizeable spin?  Am I value conscious and if so, is it worth the possible quality tradeoff?  Do I prefer a color ball and if so, what balls are eliminated?

Exactly.  For example, seeing that at slow swing speeds the Vice Pro Plus seems to behave very much like the AVX is very intriguing to me.  A firmer AVX with the colors Vice has available at a significantly lower price?  I'd definitely like to see if those test results translate to real life play with my swing. 

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1 hour ago, mantan said:

 

That was my takeaway from the whole thing. The first big ball test they did was revealing in that there were several outliers in regards to quality/direction. This time around it seemed like all the balls were fairly consistent and the differences were minimal. I'd guess most golfers on here would be play exactly the same with a many of the balls listed....so it's really just down to personal preference.  Or to put it another way, I don't think players are losing strokes because of a 300 rpm spin difference on an 8 iron.  

 

It's finding that balance for between information (lots of balls fit a general profile) and too much information (i'm going to find the perfect golf ball for me based on this test).

 

The biggest takeaways for me is the balls that performed poorly last time and pushed their softer is shorter mantra like the Bridgestone RXS were strong performers this time.

 

 

 

Yes, but I think there's also value in understanding the outliers. 

 

I've been playing Kirkland. It's not that I'm too cheap for other balls, it's that from everything I had read, it seemed to be a premium ball with a lot of spin. Most [indoor] launch monitor testing on YouTube suggested that the ball didn't really give up distance. There were a few places that suggested it gave up a little driver distance, and there was anecdotal information elsewhere, but I can sometimes chalk anecdotal information up to confirmation bias from people who don't want to believe Kirkland can offer a premium ball for $1 ea.

 

This test solidified that Kirkland is a serious outlier. It is high-spin, and you give up serious distance for all that spin. It showed up as one of the lowest distance balls across all swing speeds and clubs. And the distance differences were significant. I'm not saying I should compare to the ProV1x Left Dash distance-wise because that's an outlier in the other direction. But compared to the ball I just ordered 2doz of (MTB-X) it gives up almost 10 yards at driver for mid swing speed (about where I swing) and gives up another 4 yards of carry on the 8i. That's on average 1-1.5 club less (15y) into greens. And you don't get much for all that spin--the MTB-X has decent spin, higher peak height, almost the same descent angle, etc. 

 

If Kirkland showed up middle of the pack, it would have solidified to me that for my skill level and lack of particular need for an outlier ball, it would be the ball for me. But it didn't--it showed up consistently as an outlier. I'm giving up distance for spin I probably can't use anyway. So I picked a ball that's more middle of the pack. 

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1 hour ago, cardigan said:

Exactly.  For example, seeing that at slow swing speeds the Vice Pro Plus seems to behave very much like the AVX is very intriguing to me.  A firmer AVX with the colors Vice has available at a significantly lower price?  I'd definitely like to see if those test results translate to real life play with my swing. 

 

This is the ball I am most intrigued by.   I waffle between the AVX and the ProV1X.  The AVX can be a bit unpredictable for me.  The 2021 ProV1X is close to perfect and might be the best overall ball I have ever played.  With that said, Lime is my favorite color, but no the matte finish, so the shiny Lime version of the Vice Pro Plus is the only option.  The bulk price is pretty attractive and the ball decision could be over for a few seasons. 

 

Anecdotally, one of my golfing partners, a ProV1X loyalist, found and played the Vice Pro Plus last week and was impressed.  He is a legit scratch and said he literally could not tell the difference and he all of his usual shots into the same areas. No difference. 

 

 

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In relation to the previous test, we see several differences-

 

The distance values are greater.

The lower compression balls are closer in overall performance.

The Kirkland ball appears to be a more significant outlier in terms of spin.

 

The reason is this -

 

 

 

They’re using a (very) negative attack angle in the iron test. It produces a lower/longer/higher spin ball flight, particularly with scoring clubs.

 

While this is a “better” swing that mimics a professional mechanic, it absolutely is not what the vast majority of amateur players, particularly older ones, are producing. This population needs more spin, not less.

 

It’s no secret that Kirkland is hated, and now feared within the industry. That a ball test results in a very negative portrayal of their performance should be viewed with caution IMO. The effect, I believe, is that the players who are most likely to spend more on equipment will be most influenced. We can see that in the Kirkland thread on this site, which has gone from staunch support to pretty much writing off the current model entirely.

 

Edited by Jeff58
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My swing is way more variable than the variability between golf balls.  So for me it would be like saying that a quarter pound more air in the right front tire is all that's keeping me from winning the Indy 500.  I tend to use Callaway Supersofts in various colors, Wilson Staff DUOs in various colors, and Snell MTB-Xs from time to time.  My best score this year was with a yellow Supersoft (actually 2 of them since one went into the water).  Sometimes I can use the same individual ball for 2 rounds in a row, but I usually lose one or two per round, mainly because I only spend about one minute looking for a lost ball.  

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3 minutes ago, tsecor said:

i find it hilarious how Golf WRX'ers call into question all the data....totally exxpected on this site.....

 

somebody did something great BUT its not good enough and its flawed because of  x y and z.....and it always turns into something about each individual person and their swing and moves away from what the test was truly about....

 

gimme a break people....

 

They do an amazing job with their tests ... but tests can always be improved.

 

Personally, I would love to see their robot set up to with a "normal" attack angle with driver and then a more extreme "downward" attack (-3 or -4?) because that's the way I play golf. We know that attack angle matters, I would just like to see how the balls perform with a more downward blow with driver.

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1 minute ago, Obee said:

 

They do an amazing job with their tests ... but tests can always be improved.

 

Personally, I would love to see their robot set up to with a "normal" attack angle with driver and then a more extreme "downward" attack (-3 or -4?) because that's the way I play golf. We know that attack angle matters, I would just like to see how the balls perform with a more downward blow with driver.

i have a feeling this type of ball test will not be a constant....they have provem with the 2019 test that balls can overwhelmingly affect your game....ball fitting is more important than club fitting in many cases.... the fact many balls are so close in performance just shows a robist test like this is no longer needed....

 

i am very interested to see thier cut it program with the balls that flew wildly off course.....i want to see the quality aspect vs performance aspect

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14 minutes ago, Obee said:

 

They do an amazing job with their tests ... but tests can always be improved.

 

Personally, I would love to see their robot set up to with a "normal" attack angle with driver and then a more extreme "downward" attack (-3 or -4?) because that's the way I play golf. We know that attack angle matters, I would just like to see how the balls perform with a more downward blow with driver.

wondering why you would do that? You're losing a lot of distance by adding too much spin. The data is all relative, regardless of the angle of attack. A ball that spins more than another ball is going to spin more than that ball with a negative AOA. 

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If they have robot testing - half of WRX will whine that they need human testing because we arent robots.

 

If they have human testing - half of WRX will whine that they need robot testing because humans arent consistent enough to properly "test".

 

Welcome to WRX.


Really I'm just here for people to explain AoA to Obee though...

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      Gary Woodland's new Cameron putter - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
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      • 6 replies
    • 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open WITB Photos- Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here...
       
      Links:
       
      Harry Higgs - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Ian Poulter - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Harry Higgs - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Matt NeSmith - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Doug Ghim - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      New Cameron Las Vegas covers - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      New Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX shafts - 2021 Shriners Hospitals doe Children Open
       
       

       
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      • 15 replies

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