2021 Golf Ball Test

[tsecor]

1 minute ago, arbeck said:

It's the same price as a dozen balls. Better than buying 4 sleeves of balls and trying to fit yourself.

so true

[cardigan]

1 hour ago, arbeck said:

This might deserve it's own thread, but Ping has just launched a ball fitting tool:

 

Ballnamic

 

It's not free. But I went ahead and paid the $39 for it. I just happened to have my trackman numbers from Saturday, so I input them. Versus my current ball (the Snell MTB-X) it recommended me the Chromesoft X. It would gain me about 4 yards with the driver, but lose some a little with irons. It's slightly better into the wind with a driver. The height difference and trajectory difference is within feet of each other.

 

I'd probably have to play 1000 rounds before I would hit enough shots to see a real difference.
 

 

After seeing the rotating images of some of the ball comparisons on the main page, I'd like to see them add some detail in their "Library" about what the parameters are for their "score" results.  Distances differences are straightforward but do things like +28 in flier prevention score, -30 in 7i workability score, and -52 in driver wind score equate to in real life?

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, arbeck said:

It's the same price as a dozen balls. Better than buying 4 sleeves of balls and trying to fit yourself.

 

That may be but "feel", however one defines it, can't be felt over the internet - and feel is a very big part of ball fitting.

[arbeck]

26 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

That may be but "feel", however one defines it, can't be felt over the internet - and feel is a very big part of ball fitting.

The selector does have an option for you to make feel more important.

Though I'd argue that feel is the least important part. You get used to the feel of a ball pretty quickly.

[cardigan]

51 minutes ago, arbeck said:

The selector does have an option for you to make feel more important.

Though I'd argue that feel is the least important part. You get used to the feel of a ball pretty quickly.

What would they even mean by "feel" in that kind of tool?  Strictly compression?

[arbeck]

7 minutes ago, cardigan said:

What would they even mean by "feel" in that kind of tool?  Strictly compression?

Well, they have a lot of data. And they probably had tons of players rate the feel of the ball. They do say specifically in the questions that a high compression ball can feel softer than a low compression ball. This is true. If you put a hard cover and/or hard mantle over a lower compression core, it will feel harder than a soft cover and softer mantle over a high compression core. Most of what we "feel" on shots is the cover or mantle and not the core. For premium "tour" balls, the feel for me is all pretty much the same on full shots with mid irons on down. The differences are with chips, pitches, putts, and wedge shots. A range ball and a Pro V1x have the same compression, but one "feels" much softer than the other. Most of what we think of as feel is actually sound, and it wouldn't shock me if Ping made sound measurements for the balls as well and is using them.

[The Pearl]

5 hours ago, arbeck said:

This might deserve it's own thread, but Ping has just launched a ball fitting tool:

 

Ballnamic

 

It's not free. But I went ahead and paid the $39 for it. I just happened to have my trackman numbers from Saturday, so I input them. Versus my current ball (the Snell MTB-X) it recommended me the Chromesoft X. It would gain me about 4 yards with the driver, but lose some a little with irons. It's slightly better into the wind with a driver. The height difference and trajectory difference is within feet of each other.

 

I'd probably have to play 1000 rounds before I would hit enough shots to see a real difference.
 

 

 

Is it one and done or can you play around with the inputs to see if results are different?

[cardigan]

4 hours ago, arbeck said:

Well, they have a lot of data. And they probably had tons of players rate the feel of the ball. They do say specifically in the questions that a high compression ball can feel softer than a low compression ball. This is true. If you put a hard cover and/or hard mantle over a lower compression core, it will feel harder than a soft cover and softer mantle over a high compression core. Most of what we "feel" on shots is the cover or mantle and not the core. For premium "tour" balls, the feel for me is all pretty much the same on full shots with mid irons on down. The differences are with chips, pitches, putts, and wedge shots. A range ball and a Pro V1x have the same compression, but one "feels" much softer than the other. Most of what we think of as feel is actually sound, and it wouldn't shock me if Ping made sound measurements for the balls as well and is using them.

Do they say what they mean by feel or is there some way you can figure it out?  If you select the option of making feel more important do they ask you questions about that?  Is it just soft versus firm or is there more to it?

 

Edit: Not expecting you to know all of the details of what went into their testing and what the tool does.  It just peaked my interest when you said there is an option to give more importance to feel.

Edited August 31, 2021 by cardigan

[Nessism]

Ball test, smhall test.

 

Played last Sunday with a Callaway Supersoft that one of my playing partners gave me because he knew I like colored balls.  Over the course of the round I hit some of the longest drives I've ever hit on that course and my approach shots were landing and sticking, and even backing up on some holes, amazingly well.  I'm not saying the Supersoft is the best ball ever, but I will say that it's damn good and (pat myself on the back) solid contact trumps minor differences in balls for most players.  

I don't expect you left dashers to relate but hopefully some of the mere mortals here might. 

[tsecor]

10 hours ago, Nessism said:

Ball test, smhall test.

 

Played last Sunday with a Callaway Supersoft that one of my playing partners gave me because he knew I like colored balls.  Over the course of the round I hit some of the longest drives I've ever hit on that course and my approach shots were landing and sticking, and even backing up on some holes, amazingly well.  I'm not saying the Supersoft is the best ball ever, but I will say that it's damn good and (pat myself on the back) solid contact trumps minor differences in balls for most players.  

I don't expect you left dashers to relate but hopefully some of the mere mortals here might. 

i am a mortal on all levels but the left dash is the longest ball ive ever hit....and i am not swinging it 120 mph!! ....for softer balls, the Chromesoft is really long for mee too...just behind the left dash..... you are right though....most balls are within a few feet of each other but there are a few outliers which help you hit a shorter club into the  green.

 

 

[arbeck]

13 hours ago, Nessism said:

Ball test, smhall test.

 

Played last Sunday with a Callaway Supersoft that one of my playing partners gave me because he knew I like colored balls.  Over the course of the round I hit some of the longest drives I've ever hit on that course and my approach shots were landing and sticking, and even backing up on some holes, amazingly well.  I'm not saying the Supersoft is the best ball ever, but I will say that it's damn good and (pat myself on the back) solid contact trumps minor differences in balls for most players.  

I don't expect you left dashers to relate but hopefully some of the mere mortals here might. 

This isn't false, but it doesn't tell the whole story. If I hit my driver a little bit high toe side with a closed face I'll get things that spin 1800. I hit a little below the center with the face slightly open, I'll get shots that spin around 3000. The difference in spin between balls with a driver is more like 400RPM. So my ability dwarfs the difference between the balls. That doesn't mean the difference isn't there. A low spin ball off that driver might dip below 1600 RPM and fall out of the sky, while a higher spin ball stays at 1900 and ends up with a playable ball flight.

 

If I'm playing really well and flushing everything, I could play with anything. The same could be said for almost everything in golf though. If I'm flushing things I could play with an MB. My strike overrides a lot of the help that the club can give me.

 

That doesn't mean the ball or the club can't help me sometimes. And I'll take any help I can get.

[gioreeko]

There's so many good balls that will work for a lot of players. I played the other day with my son and his friend, who is a teaching pro on Callaway's staff, scratch golfer. He seemed a little put off when I told him I would be testing the Vice Pro plus, and said that the Callaway Chromesoft X would be a better ball for me. I told him I might try some someday, maybe hook me up with a sleeve and we'll see what happens. Anyway, on a really long par 4 with a downhill slope that you need to drive about 280 to land on and get a great roll out, we both mashed our drives. When we got to the end of the flat part, we saw our two balls, and he said, "wow, you almost hit it as far as I did". When we got closer we saw the familiar triple track lines on the Callaway, sitting about 10 yards behind the Vice Pro Plus.  We then bet on closer to the pin on the next shot, and I won some lunch money, lol. So many good balls, seems you can't really go wrong with the top 5 or 10 

[ShowMe]

20 hours ago, Nessism said:

Ball test, smhall test.

 

Played last Sunday with a Callaway Supersoft that one of my playing partners gave me because he knew I like colored balls.  Over the course of the round I hit some of the longest drives I've ever hit on that course and my approach shots were landing and sticking, and even backing up on some holes, amazingly well.  I'm not saying the Supersoft is the best ball ever, but I will say that it's damn good and (pat myself on the back) solid contact trumps minor differences in balls for most players.  

I don't expect you left dashers to relate but hopefully some of the mere mortals here might. 

My buddy had the exact same results.  He ran out of his normal Pro Vs during a round a few months ago, so I gave him a sleeve of Supersofts to try.  Suddenly...literally, suddenly...he was hitting his drives 20 yards longer and his irons 10 yards longer.  No issues with spin control, either.  

[Rocky Ball-boa]

On 8/30/2021 at 6:38 PM, arbeck said:

It's the same price as a dozen balls. Better than buying 4 sleeves of balls and trying to fit yourself.

 

Quick question - where do you buy sleeves of balls? I can never find sleeves anywhere, unless they're one-off promotional ones. Like if a brand just launches a ball, the pro shop might have a sleeve for sale for a week or two, and then that's it.

 

I can never find anything but full dozens anywhere.

 

Trying to find sleeves or buying full dozens is painstaking. I don't mind buying a dozen of a ball for the final test, but the initial whittling down the candidates would be awesome if it could be made more cheaply and convenient.

[Rocky Ball-boa]

I somehow made a duplicate - sorry

Edited September 1, 2021 by Rocky Ball-boa

[tsecor]

25 minutes ago, Rocky Ball-boa said:

 

Quick question - where do you buy sleeves of balls? I can never find sleeves anywhere, unless they're one-off promotional ones. Like if a brand just launches a ball, the pro shop might have a sleeve for sale for a week or two, and then that's it.

 

I can never find anything but full dozens anywhere.

 

Trying to find sleeves or buying full dozens is painstaking. I don't mind buying a dozen of a ball for the final test, but the initial whittling down the candidates would be awesome if it could be made more cheaply and convenient.

PGA SS

[dcmidnight]

WTB section.

 

I always throw something in there if I cant find it in my pro shop. Put in the price I'll pay - have always found something within a couple hours.

[cardigan]

59 minutes ago, Rocky Ball-boa said:

 

Quick question - where do you buy sleeves of balls? I can never find sleeves anywhere, unless they're one-off promotional ones. Like if a brand just launches a ball, the pro shop might have a sleeve for sale for a week or two, and then that's it.

 

I can never find anything but full dozens anywhere.

 

Trying to find sleeves or buying full dozens is painstaking. I don't mind buying a dozen of a ball for the final test, but the initial whittling down the candidates would be awesome if it could be made more cheaply and convenient.

PGASS, Edwin Watts, pro shops. You can still occasionally find Srixon "performance packs" (6 balls) online.

[Rocky Ball-boa]

9 minutes ago, cardigan said:

PGASS, Edwin Watts, pro shops. You can still occasionally find Srixon "performance packs" (6 balls) online.

It must be some regional setting or the wrong time of year - I can't see a single sleeve for sale on either PGASS or Edwin Watts. The smallest pack size one can filter on on the latter is 6, and that's a 6 pack of "Chromax" balls.

 

Thanks for the responses though!

[cardigan]

3 minutes ago, Rocky Ball-boa said:

It must be some regional setting or the wrong time of year - I can't see a single sleeve for sale on either PGASS or Edwin Watts. The smallest pack size one can filter on on the latter is 6, and that's a 6 pack of "Chromax" balls.

 

Thanks for the responses though!

I meant in-store for PGASS and Edwin Watts.  Haven't seen them offer sleeves online.

[chippa13]

I see individual sleeves of balls available for purchase at pretty much every course pro shop.

[nsxguy]

55 minutes ago, Rocky Ball-boa said:

It must be some regional setting or the wrong time of year - I can't see a single sleeve for sale on either PGASS or Edwin Watts. The smallest pack size one can filter on on the latter is 6, and that's a 6 pack of "Chromax" balls.

 

Thanks for the responses though!

 

Did you ASK ?

 

PGATSS by me has some racks of single sleeves. Usually NOT in a place easy to see.

 

If the ball I want isn't in the rack they tell me to go get a dozen and bring them up (by the register). They take a sleeve out, sell it to me and put the other 3 sleeves in the rack.

 

Most(?) major golf stores will break up a dozen.

 

Usually for a small premium of course.

[bluedot]

23 hours ago, arbeck said:

This isn't false, but it doesn't tell the whole story. If I hit my driver a little bit high toe side with a closed face I'll get things that spin 1800. I hit a little below the center with the face slightly open, I'll get shots that spin around 3000. The difference in spin between balls with a driver is more like 400RPM. So my ability dwarfs the difference between the balls. That doesn't mean the difference isn't there. A low spin ball off that driver might dip below 1600 RPM and fall out of the sky, while a higher spin ball stays at 1900 and ends up with a playable ball flight.

 

If I'm playing really well and flushing everything, I could play with anything. The same could be said for almost everything in golf though. If I'm flushing things I could play with an MB. My strike overrides a lot of the help that the club can give me.

 

That doesn't mean the ball or the club can't help me sometimes. And I'll take any help I can get.

Excellent post, and this is exactly the point of robot testing on golf balls; the variables in a "human" swing are just impossible to account for, not only from day to day, but even from swing to swing.  And that doesn't touch on course conditions, temperature, wind, etc.

 

As to your point about driver spin: I've spent a LOT of time hitting various setups of a new Epic Max driver on a Flightscope Mevo+, trying to get it "just right".  At the fitting, we just found a combo in the neutral setting that gave me the best numbers, and I went from there with the Flightscope; there's really no other way in these days of two or three way adjustments unless the fitting session is going to last all day.  And even then, it would be one day...

 

So I'd hit a half dozen shots with a particular setup, and then change it and hit a half dozen more, etc.  Afterwards, I'd come home a look HARD at the averages, and over a period of three or four sessions like that, I figured out what setup was best for me.  But the range of individual shots was the kind of thing you are talking about; I had spin rates as low as 1600, and as high as 3900; I could tell that the the super low spin shots were poorly hit due to poor swings and/or contact, but the high spin shots often caught me by surprise, both at the spin rate AND the lack of overall distance.  They looked and felt great off the club; they weren't, and the same thing happens on the course.

 

Is that from an inch or so of ball position?  Tee height?  Slight change in grip strength?  More or less tension in my forearms?  Chin a bit up or down, leading to a different swing plane?  A slightly more open or closed stance?  A gust of wind down range?  Multiples of those things or others that I'm not even aware of?  Who the heck knows?

 

The point of a ball test is to show the RELATIVE differences between any two golf balls when struck exactly the same way.  It's a data set, and nothing more.  As you say, the quality of our strikes overwhelms the differences between the construction of the balls themselves, which is why the testing is so valuable. 

 

 

[bluedot]

9 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Did you ASK ?

 

PGATSS by me has some racks of single sleeves. Usually NOT in a place easy to see.

 

If the ball I want isn't in the rack they tell me to go get a dozen and bring them up (by the register). They take a sleeve out, sell it to me and put the other 3 sleeves in the rack.

 

Most(?) major golf stores will break up a dozen.

 

Usually for a small premium of course.

I think it's even more common in green grass pro shops; it's easy money for them to sell a customer who is about to go out and play a sleeve of golf balls while they are standing at the register.  And the premium on that purchase is typically pretty high.

[nsxguy]

4 minutes ago, bluedot said:

I think it's even more common in green grass pro shops; it's easy money for them to sell a customer who is about to go out and play a sleeve of golf balls while they are standing at the register.  And the premium on that purchase is typically pretty high.

 

You've probably been in more of them than I have. Most munis (where I play most often) seldom have much in the way of premium offerings in ANY equipment.

 

And I mostly buy my equipment in off course golf shops.

 

But strangely enough, in the beginning of this year when I was testing different balls and did play occasionally at a green grass course, they sold me a few sleeves at 25% of the price of a dozen. Color me surprised. 🙃

 

The off course stores always charge a premium for a sleeve; which is totally understandable.

[nsxguy]

12 minutes ago, bluedot said:

Excellent post, and this is exactly the point of robot testing on golf balls; the variables in a "human" swing are just impossible to account for, not only from day to day, but even from swing to swing.  And that doesn't touch on course conditions, temperature, wind, etc.

 

As to your point about driver spin: I've spent a LOT of time hitting various setups of a new Epic Max driver on a Flightscope Mevo+, trying to get it "just right".  At the fitting, we just found a combo in the neutral setting that gave me the best numbers, and I went from there with the Flightscope; there's really no other way in these days of two or three way adjustments unless the fitting session is going to last all day.  And even then, it would be one day...

 

So I'd hit a half dozen shots with a particular setup, and then change it and hit a half dozen more, etc.  Afterwards, I'd come home a look HARD at the averages, and over a period of three or four sessions like that, I figured out what setup was best for me.  But the range of individual shots was the kind of thing you are talking about; I had spin rates as low as 1600, and as high as 3900; I could tell that the the super low spin shots were poorly hit due to poor swings and/or contact, but the high spin shots often caught me by surprise, both at the spin rate AND the lack of overall distance.  They looked and felt great off the club; they weren't, and the same thing happens on the course.

 

Is that from an inch or so of ball position?  Tee height?  Slight change in grip strength?  More or less tension in my forearms?  Chin a bit up or down, leading to a different swing plane?  A slightly more open or closed stance?  A gust of wind down range?  Multiples of those things or others that I'm not even aware of?  Who the heck knows?

 

The point of a ball test is to show the RELATIVE differences between any two golf balls when struck exactly the same way.  It's a data set, and nothing more.  As you say, the quality of our strikes overwhelms the differences between the construction of the balls themselves, which is why the testing is so valuable. 

 

 

 

Excellent post as well. 👍

 

I would expect the really experienced (and very good ?) players test their equipment exactly as you do.

 

Personally I NEVER buy a club based on a single session. I'd guess minimum 3 different days, often 5 or more.

 

That's how I fit myself for my current (shafts I guess) G20s. 5 or 6 different sessions of a couple of weeks. I'd already decided I liked the shape, size and forgiveness of the head so it was a matter of picking the best shaft (for ME).

 

Tried mostly different weight and model shafts from 90s to 130s, C-Taper Lite, KBS Tour, DGS300 and so on.

 

For most of us, different day = different swing = different "feel" = different energy level,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and so on,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

But yes, I agree the ball test can at least help us select a handful of balls we'd like to try. By the time we tested all the balls thoroughly enough ourselves it'd be time for next year's golf balls.

[cristphoto]

On 8/21/2021 at 9:06 AM, dlygrisse said:

“Feel” is nothing more than sound. Which you hear after the ball has left the face. Most soft balls have great “feel” but little spin on pitch shots, which they clearly show in this test. Most balls with “feel” are low compression, which they clearly identify in the test. So I’m not sure what you are talking about, except it’s obvious you are more worried about marketing terms than real data. 

 

Wow!!

[trapsmv15]

On 8/30/2021 at 9:08 AM, tsecor said:

the V1x is not good for you if you are already creating more dynamic loft than you need...the V1x spins a lot and it is probably hurting your distance. I had the same issue with the BXS going way off target when a lot of spin was applied on a mishit....i wanted to like the BSX, but we just didnt get along. 

 

the Chromesoft may be the most forgiving ball i have ever played....it just goes straight and its pretty darn long for my swing speed....the CSX may be the better all around ball as it plays very well tee to green......if you have a high descent angle, dont worry about spin coming into the green. It sounds like your ball comes in high, so the AVX or any other low spin ball will hold for you. 

 

The one ball that is clearly longer than any other ball i have hit is the Left dash prov1......i played yesterday and used this ball onn a few holes and its a low spin monster off the tee....i played in a scramble and the team was making commenets on how i was bombing it....and i was consistently 10 yards further than the whole team....i used the CSX for most of the day and its a great ball....

I have a dozen left dash and do like it aside from the feel. V1X is as high of spin as I can get away with basically. I don’t lose any carry distance off driver against the AVX, just roll out. I do lose maybe 3 yards on iron carry, 5 on wedges. It’s definitely a spin/distance trade off scenario. XS just goes past that spin threshold for me apparently. CS is like the AVX to me, I just spin the AVX greenside a little better and irons hold a little better.
 

If I had to bet on myself, I’d probably bet on me sticking with V1X next year. But we’ll see. I have plenty of balls now for the rest of this season. 

[tsecor]

On 9/1/2021 at 7:50 PM, trapsmv15 said:

I have a dozen left dash and do like it aside from the feel. V1X is as high of spin as I can get away with basically. I don’t lose any carry distance off driver against the AVX, just roll out. I do lose maybe 3 yards on iron carry, 5 on wedges. It’s definitely a spin/distance trade off scenario. XS just goes past that spin threshold for me apparently. CS is like the AVX to me, I just spin the AVX greenside a little better and irons hold a little better.
 

If I had to bet on myself, I’d probably bet on me sticking with V1X next year. But we’ll see. I have plenty of balls now for the rest of this season. 

i just bought some BXS hoping its better for me thamn the last version....from what i understand they dropped the spin rates off the driver for the newer model.

 

we'll see.....im concluding my ball test for the summer....spent hundreds on balls this summer to do my own test and it really opened my eyes to how different each ball is...

Edited September 3, 2021 by tsecor

[storm319]

On 9/1/2021 at 8:50 AM, cardigan said:

I meant in-store for PGASS and Edwin Watts.  Haven't seen them offer sleeves online.

Every Golf Galaxy I have been to also has single sleeves from the major OEMs for sale.