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Opinions on Mitchell vs Auditor swingweight scale


ProRangeRat

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The manual Bitchell & digital Auditor swingweight scales are priced in the same ballpark.  Anyone with experience in either have a preference?

 

The digital Auditor looks like it does it all but I'm sure the electronics will only let me down.   The Mitchell doesn't strike me as all that accurate but has the reliability factor.   (I'm also looking into building a version of the Tutelman diy ).   

 

I know there are online calculators recommended here but whenever I go to one of these sites the disclaimers state that accuracy isn't that good. 

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The problem with the calculator approach is that it's easy to mess up on the balance point measurement and thus the calculation will be off.  I made a "calibration club" using the calculator and it took me a good long while before I was confident my measurements were correct.  And I've got a lot of experience measuring things after working for a couple of decades in the quality field.

 

Regarding the two scales, the Mitchell will last basically forever.  The Auditor looks super nifty but as you say, the electronics may glitch out at some point, but I suspect it should last a couple of decades if taken well cared for.  BTW, the Mitchell looks like a fancy Kenneth Smith.  Below is a photo of one that I restored.  They used to come up on ebay for relatively cheap but I haven't seen any cheap ones in quite some time.

 

  

image.png

 

And while on the subject, here is a photo of my grail scale that I stupidly didn't buy when it came up on ebay a few years ago.  I'd love to have this thing in the shop...

 

image.png.1684604914c450101d0c05afacd0bdf1.png

Edited by Nessism
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@ Nessism ,  

That's a great restoration on the Ken Smith.  Never seen the other scale before, I imagine it was intended for mfgs. of clubs and the precursor to what they use now.

 

fwiw - I just noticed that the Mitchell doesn't have anywhere to lay a grip independently of a shaft.  I'll call them and ask what their spin on this oversight is. 

 

Speaking of laying a new grip independently (vs pre installing an old split grip) I always see videos where the bare shaft butt and the end of a new grip are registered against the same stop.... wouldn't you want to pull the shaft forward the thickness of the rubber at the end of the grip the same as it would be installed.  Seems (to me) like this throws measurement way off if you don't.  What am I missing?  

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1 hour ago, ProRangeRat said:

@ Nessism ,  

That's a great restoration on the Ken Smith.  Never seen the other scale before, I imagine it was intended for mfgs. of clubs and the precursor to what they use now.

 

fwiw - I just noticed that the Mitchell doesn't have anywhere to lay a grip independently of a shaft.  I'll call them and ask what their spin on this oversight is. 

 

Speaking of laying a new grip independently (vs pre installing an old split grip) I always see videos where the bare shaft butt and the end of a new grip are registered against the same stop.... wouldn't you want to pull the shaft forward the thickness of the rubber at the end of the grip the same as it would be installed.  Seems (to me) like this throws measurement way off if you don't.  What am I missing?  

Assuming a std 52 gram grip, placing the shaft butt against the stop, it gives you a reading that is 9 pts high. 

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2 hours ago, Socrates said:

Assuming a std 52 gram grip, placing the shaft butt against the stop, it gives you a reading that is 9 pts high. 

 

Got it, thanks.  So everyone just does the math in their heads instead of using a gauged spacer to stand off the shaft (and, of course, removing spacer before balancing).

 

Now I'm wondering if because the Mitchell has adjustable calibration if I couldn't adhere a half pipe pvc cradle to the top before calibrating to hold any grips independently?  Or would that throw things off?

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2 hours ago, ProRangeRat said:

 

Got it, thanks.  So everyone just does the math in their heads instead of using a gauged spacer to stand off the shaft (and, of course, removing spacer before balancing).

 

Now I'm wondering if because the Mitchell has adjustable calibration if I couldn't adhere a half pipe pvc cradle to the top before calibrating to hold any grips independently?  Or would that throw things off?

The calibration is to take into account a non-level surface or error in assembly (QC).  Doubt if the calibration adjustment would be enough to compensate for an add-on item.

 

I usually just stick on a piece of 2-way tape to the shaft and stick the grip to that if I'm really desperate to measure SW with a grip and don't want to cut one up.

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Rogue 3iron Recoil 660 F3 +1/2"
X2 Hot 4-AW Recoil 660 F3 +1/2"
Vokey SM2 52º cc, SM4 56°, SM4 60°
Ping Sigma2 Valor at 34.75"
MCC Align Midsize

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On 7/31/2021 at 3:26 PM, Nessism said:

The problem with the calculator approach is that it's easy to mess up on the balance point measurement and thus the calculation will be off.  I made a "calibration club" using the calculator and it took me a good long while before I was confident my measurements were correct.  And I've got a lot of experience measuring things after working for a couple of decades in the quality field.

 

Regarding the two scales, the Mitchell will last basically forever.  The Auditor looks super nifty but as you say, the electronics may glitch out at some point, but I suspect it should last a couple of decades if taken well cared for.  BTW, the Mitchell looks like a fancy Kenneth Smith.  Below is a photo of one that I restored.  They used to come up on ebay for relatively cheap but I haven't seen any cheap ones in quite some time.

 

  

image.png

 

And while on the subject, here is a photo of my grail scale that I stupidly didn't buy when it came up on ebay a few years ago.  I'd love to have this thing in the shop...

 

image.png.1684604914c450101d0c05afacd0bdf1.png

The scale in 1st photo looks like the one you sold me....  🙂 

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39 minutes ago, Tzoid said:

The scale in 1st photo looks like the one you sold me....  🙂 

 

👍

 

How's it working out for you?

 

I love those KS scales.  The LoRYTHMic is unique and has a small footprint.  The Prorythmic is the version that looks like the Mitchell.  Both of these use a standard 14" fulcrum and read in conventional swingweight points.  The "Official" scale uses a 12" fulcrum and requires a conversion table to convert to modern swingweight points.  They are fine scales but personally, I stay clear of them.  All use bronze pivot blades and there isn't a spec of plastic on them. 

 

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16 hours ago, ProRangeRat said:

 

Got it, thanks.  So everyone just does the math in their heads instead of using a gauged spacer to stand off the shaft (and, of course, removing spacer before balancing).

 

Now I'm wondering if because the Mitchell has adjustable calibration if I couldn't adhere a half pipe pvc cradle to the top before calibrating to hold any grips independently?  Or would that throw things off?

 

The main point of adjusting head weight during the build without the grip on is to ignore the manufacturing variations that occure in the grips.   The grip (and the variations from the grip) have no real influence on the MOI of the club and the swing weight scale was never designed to manage those differences in the grip end of the club.

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5 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

The main point of adjusting head weight during the build without the grip on is to ignore the manufacturing variations that occure in the grips.   The grip (and the variations from the grip) have no real influence on the MOI of the club and the swing weight scale was never designed to manage those differences in the grip end of the club.

 

Thank you.  I'm beginning to better understand what I should expect out of a scale & how it's used in practice - (thank you everyone who replied ).   Just assumed if the mfg's use those huge reference machines that there was a tangible return on getting the best resolution I could rationalize.  

Also my ignorant a** didn't even take into account how changing my lie angles (I play flat) will alter / has altered swing weight.  Much to learn (and all I wanted to do was swap some shafts - down the hole I go). 

 

*(warning - Rant )

As an aside, I spoke with Mitchell and they said it would be rare that the movable weight would be that far towards the butt end and if someone wanted to lay a grip under the butt on the beam there's plenty of room (though it doesn't look like that in the videos I've seen, hmm).  I asked if they used any bearings at the fulcrum or if there was a hash mark where the balance pin is centered and both answers were "no".   Why go to the trouble of engraving 'Tour Gauge...' etc. on the machine if they don't take any pride in functional details that would set them apart from antiques you can buy on ebay?  And even though a grip cradle may be a rare use it would have been so cheap & simple to implement one.  

When I bought their SteelClub L&L machine years ago I was surprised at how sloppy it was and figured they would have evolved with machining techniques by now.   Think I will look around a bit for something used.  

Edited by ProRangeRat
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3 hours ago, ProRangeRat said:

At this swing weight calculator site they ask that you measure from the edge of the butt of the grip rather than the crown.  

Q: Is this measuring method unique to this site (because of how they've formulated) or is it the correct method when you own a physical swing weight scale ??

 

 

The most accurate "effective" swing weight is going to be based on the location where the player takes the grip.  But most scales don't allow anything but the very top of the grip dome so that is more common.  The difference is really typically not more than 1/8".   On a scale, that's really only about 0.75 sw pts.  But even that's not as big a deal since swing weight isn't really an absolute measurement of feel.  So consistency of the method is much more important than the fine details of the method.

Edited by Stuart_G
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