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Why don't club manufacturers make iron heads that allow shafts to be easily interchanged.


Nickc
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Recently bought an ex demo Mizuno MP18 that had a screw in the hozel to allow shafts to be easily interchanged.

Wondering why this or say a threaded hozel and shaft end / adapter aren't made to allow people to easily interchanged shafts.

Could have advantage of say using different shafts for different conditions etc.

Would impact club fitters but would probably increase shaft sales.

Edited by Nickc
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  • Nickc changed the title to Why don't club manufacturers make iron heads that allow shafts to be easily interchanged.

Cost?  Cheaper to glue them in, 98% of golfers aren’t worried about swapping shafts in irons, the main reason they do it in woods is because of adjustment not shaft swapping.  

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I can't think of a reason why the manufacturers wouldn't have already aside from dly post above about cost.  There have been screw in heads for a long time for demo irons but not regular sets, I heard at one time it had something to do with how irons are meant to be hit down and into the ground and over time the hosel connection could weaken and snap, but I'm sure they have the tech nowadays to solve this.  Once the manufacturers figure out it's profitable it will happen, any new marketing angle they can use to take money out of your pocket and put it in their pocket they will do, doesn't matter if it's complete bs and won't help your game at all.

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It's pretty simple and foolproof system right now.  No need to "Rube Goldberg" a simple system.

 

Interchangeable shafts would add huge costs to a set of irons and again you would have the problem with them not being interchangeable with other OEM's just like woods are now.   

 

Ping has decent demo iron, but every one of them comes loose after a number of hits.  

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There is also the issue of weight. Every gram an OEM adds to the hosel is a gram less they can distribute elsewhere in the head.

 

I dont think it makes sense to do for all irons in the set. Along this line of thinking - Taylormade did introduce an 'adjustable iron' in the GAPR Lo, and Cobra makes adjustable hosel using adapters in their driving irons as well.

 

 

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As stated earlier, costs,

Swapping shafts are easy, your just working with epoxy, 

Besides, how does offering a changable shaft for irons benefit the golfer.

Get fit, get it right the first time.

Edited by puttingmatt


Play Golf.....Play Blades......Play Something Else.....Just Go Play.....

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I know some fitters use shafts to get certain spin and launch conditions, but that's not really the right way to fit people.

 

The head is used for spin and launch.  The shaft is really about a consistent strike pattern. 

 

Sure an x 100 will lower launch in spin, but you wouldn't hit it as consistently as the s400 you may be fitted for. 

 

Long story short, you would play worse golf if you start swapping shafts for conditions.  Its about maximizing your bad.

 

While it would be great for the second hand market, manufacturers don't make money off that, so not much incentive to change their process.     

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You have to realize that outside of WRX likely 2% of golfers will ever change a shaft. So as an OEM it would make zero sense to chase .5% of the market (the number of folks who would actually benefit from such a function).

Taylormade M3 driver Mitsubishi Kuro Kage TiNi 70G shaft (cut to 44.5")

Taylormade M1 5 wood

Taylormade GAPR Lo 19* Hybrid 

Taylormade GAPR Mid 21* Hybrid

KZG Forged Blade 4, 5, 7-PW

Mizuno MP-68 6 iron

Mitsubishi Kuro Kage 80g iron shafts

Lazrus 52/8 and 56/12 wedges

Nike Blue Chip 002 putter

Golf Pride Concept Helix grips

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18 hours ago, cardigan said:

As others have said, cost and you would still have the issue of lack of interchangeability between different OEM's.  All-Fit is an aftermarket option.  

Well perhaps about time golf governing bodies and manufacturers came up with better common standards. E.g They could make their first stab at agreeing on flex standards.

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2 hours ago, Nickc said:

Well perhaps about time golf governing bodies and manufacturers came up with better common standards. E.g They could make their first stab at agreeing on flex standards.

The governing bodies likely wouldn't get involved unless it somehow impacted competition.  They don't outlaw such setups so short of requiring that irons in competitions have a quick swap ability, they would stay out of it.  As for getting manufactures to not only change their processes but also collaborate with their competitors, someone would have to convince them that there was a lot of profit to be made.  Best you could probably hope for is for some OEM club makers to offer something like that as a custom option when ordering and bearing the cost and extra time waiting as an individual and it would still no guarantee that they would all use the same system.  Shaft makers would also likely stay out of it and leave all of that to whoever is doing the building.

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As a musician I've often wondered why it's so hard to audition replacement components like the magnetic pickups under the strings on an electric guitar.

 

It would be fairly easy to a big pickup manufacturer to design a way for shoppers to play and compare several models before settling on which one to buy for the sound they're after. I even brought this up with a friend who runs a music store.

 

He said "Don't you get it? They LOVE that consumers have to buy and try several sets before they find the right ones." 

 

Not sure if this logic applies to golf clubs...but it just might. 

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You could rig all your irons with a fitters adapter like the one from All-Fit, then set up all your shafts, etc. At the end of the day it's just going to be too expensive when you price it out.

 

Also how many people want to change shafts often? And the ones that do usually have a setup to pull and install shafts.

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Lefty

Driver: 9° Ping G410 Plus - HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue 6.0

3W: 13.5° Ping G410 LST - Aldila NV 2KXV Green 75X

3H: 19° Ping G410 - Tensei CK Pro Orange 90TX

Irons: 4i - 7i Srixon 585 / 8i - PW Srixon 785 - AMT Tour White S300

Wedges: 51° MD3 - 56° Glide 2 - 60° PM2

Putter(s): TP Mills Handmade - Kingdom Putter - NCW Boyd - and more. 

WITB Thread

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While I can swap out a set of iron shafts in an hour or less (total work time), other than changing my driver shaft a couple of times, I haven't touched the rest of the shafts in 6 years.  Current shaft/hosel technology is just fine.

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Ping G400 9º TFC 419 Stiff at 45"

Jazz 3 wd Powercoil Stiff
Ping i20 3 Hyb 707H Stiff
Rogue 3iron Recoil 660 F3 +1/2"
X2 Hot 4-PW Recoil 660 F3 +1/2"
Vokey SM2 52º cc, Ping ES 56º and ES 60º
Ping Sigma2 Valor at 34.75"
MCC Align Midsize

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8 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

Along with all that's mentioned, would this have an impact on being able to bend lies?  

 

Good question.  But it's going to depend on the details of the design.  It certainly would complicate the design and take more weight to allow it or make the attachment an adjustable one as an alternate..

 

I'd be more concerned about how big and bulky the hosel would look.

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I've found the ones that I've seen for irons with the nut used to connect the shaft to the hosel (as opposed to systems for woods where you screw it in from the bottom) to be unattractive to my eye.  I could probably get used to it but I definitely prefer a cleaner look.  There may be more attractive aftermarket options out there that I haven't seen.

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These same arguments against shaft connection systems were made when they first appeared in drivers and woods.  Now we all can't imagine going back to glued-in wood shafts (at least that's true for most of us).

 

A simple shaft to iron/wedge head connection system could easily be brought to market.  It doesn't need the complication of loft/lie adjustment like seen on woods/hybrids.  It could be a simple screw coming in through the bottom of the hosel that is screwed into an adapter glued into the tip of the shaft.  The clubs would barely look any different (they would be similar to the older style bottom bore heads), there wouldn't be much added weight (which could easily be handled in the design of the heads), custom ferrules could still be used, and loft/lie adjustments would still be handled on a loft/lie bending machine.  Any current shaft set could be easily fit with the adapters glued inside of the shaft tips. 

 

There is no technical reason why this couldn't be done well, but whether or not we'll ever see this depends on if any manufacturer determines there is a financial benefit, and if they did bring it to market, if it provided a sales advantage (consumer uptake level).

Edited by Noodler
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If irons were adjustable, I would be more interested in lie angle adjustments than shaft swapping, just like my woods now.  But as we all know iron bending is relatively easy process whereas adjusting lies on woods has always been more of a challenge.  

Ping G400
Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood

Ping G410 5 hybrid
Ping G irons
Vokey 50,54,58
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Hoofer, Ecco, Bushnell, Club Glove
ProV1x-mostly
 

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4 hours ago, Noodler said:

These same arguments against shaft connection systems were made when they first appeared in drivers and woods.  Now we all can't imagine going back to glued-in wood shafts (at least that's true for most of us).

 

A simple shaft to iron/wedge head connection system could easily be brought to market.  It doesn't need the complication of loft/lie adjustment like seen on woods/hybrids.  It could be a simple screw coming in through the bottom of the hosel that is screwed into an adapter glued into the tip of the shaft.  The clubs would barely look any different (they would be similar to the older style bottom bore heads), there wouldn't be much added weight (which could easily be handled in the design of the heads), custom ferrules could still be used, and loft/lie adjustments would still be handled on a loft/lie bending machine.  Any current shaft set could be easily fit with the adapters glued inside of the shaft tips. 

 

There is no technical reason why this couldn't be done well, but whether or not we'll ever see this depends on if any manufacturer determines there is a financial benefit, and if they did bring it to market, if it provided a sales advantage (consumer uptake level).

Technically, it could be done.  I don't think aesthetically it would be very pleasing.

 

There would be limitations to lie and bend angles just like there are with woods and that is where I think it would be too limiting to be viable. 

Ping G400 9º TFC 419 Stiff at 45"

Jazz 3 wd Powercoil Stiff
Ping i20 3 Hyb 707H Stiff
Rogue 3iron Recoil 660 F3 +1/2"
X2 Hot 4-PW Recoil 660 F3 +1/2"
Vokey SM2 52º cc, Ping ES 56º and ES 60º
Ping Sigma2 Valor at 34.75"
MCC Align Midsize

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7 hours ago, MattM97 said:

You could rig all your irons with a fitters adapter like the one from All-Fit, then set up all your shafts, etc. At the end of the day it's just going to be too expensive when you price it out.

 

Also how many people want to change shafts often? And the ones that do usually have a setup to pull and install shafts.

 

Exactly. The new All-Fit for irons requires you to reem out the head in order to fit the new system, thats how Top Golf manage the weight with their fitting system. For a professional fitter that makes sense. But for hobbist like myself, I ain't doing it as reeming the heads makes the heads un-sellable. Just better off testing with a single irons and then when you're done, just pull and install as you said 👍

Taylormade Sim Max, Fujikura Ventus Velocore Black 6-S, Top Golf All-Fit Universal adapter

Callaway Epic Max LS, Hzrdus Smoke Black RDX 60 stiff, Top Golf All-Fit Universal adapter
Fairways: Honma 737 13* 3 wood, Vizard A 50S shaft, Taylormade M4 HL 16.5* 4 wood, Vizard Z 60S shaft
Hybrid:   Cobra Speedzone 3 hybrid

Irons:      Taylormade P790 DGold 105 S300 4-PW

               Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal Pro 4-PW KBS TGI 95/100 shafts
Wedges: Cleveland CBX2 48*, Cleveland FullFace 56* both with Catalyst 100 shafts
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3 minutes ago, SwingBlues said:

 

Exactly. The new All-Fit for irons requires you to reem out the head in order to fit the new system, thats how Top Golf manage the weight with their fitting system. For a professional fitter that makes sense. But for hobbist like myself, I ain't doing it as reeming the heads makes the heads un-sellable. Just better off testing with a single irons and then when you're done, just pull and install as you said 👍

 

The other thing is those adapters are not light and they throw swing weight off, fitters can adjust for that but an average joe may be curious why the irons feel so weird. Also on top of the heads being un-sellable I believe the shafts are too with how much has to be cut for the adapter.

Lefty

Driver: 9° Ping G410 Plus - HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue 6.0

3W: 13.5° Ping G410 LST - Aldila NV 2KXV Green 75X

3H: 19° Ping G410 - Tensei CK Pro Orange 90TX

Irons: 4i - 7i Srixon 585 / 8i - PW Srixon 785 - AMT Tour White S300

Wedges: 51° MD3 - 56° Glide 2 - 60° PM2

Putter(s): TP Mills Handmade - Kingdom Putter - NCW Boyd - and more. 

WITB Thread

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1 minute ago, MattM97 said:

 

The other thing is those adapters are not light and they throw swing weight off, fitters can adjust for that but an average joe may be curious why the irons feel so weird. Also on top of the heads being un-sellable I believe the shafts are too with how much has to be cut for the adapter.

 

Yep...that use to be the case with the club conex fuse fit. However, the all-fit master is different because you bore out part of the metal, the sleeve that now goes into the head make up for it so it should weight the same - thats the gist of it. There are YouTubes by McGolf to describe the All-Fit irons that explains it...

Taylormade Sim Max, Fujikura Ventus Velocore Black 6-S, Top Golf All-Fit Universal adapter

Callaway Epic Max LS, Hzrdus Smoke Black RDX 60 stiff, Top Golf All-Fit Universal adapter
Fairways: Honma 737 13* 3 wood, Vizard A 50S shaft, Taylormade M4 HL 16.5* 4 wood, Vizard Z 60S shaft
Hybrid:   Cobra Speedzone 3 hybrid

Irons:      Taylormade P790 DGold 105 S300 4-PW

               Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal Pro 4-PW KBS TGI 95/100 shafts
Wedges: Cleveland CBX2 48*, Cleveland FullFace 56* both with Catalyst 100 shafts
Directed Force Reno "2.05 Presse IV tweaked" Putter with BGT Stability shaft
#1 Callaway Chromesoft X LS, #2 Srixon XV 5/6

Moe Norman/Todd Graves Single Plane swing

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8 hours ago, Socrates said:

Technically, it could be done.  I don't think aesthetically it would be very pleasing.

 

There would be limitations to lie and bend angles just like there are with woods and that is where I think it would be too limiting to be viable. 

 

Not sure what you're referring to.  The "system" I'm explaining would not use any kind of "adapter" or "collar".  The shaft insertion depth would be identical to gluing the head and shaft as it is typically.  What I'm suggesting is to have a screw hole through the bottom of the hosel bore that goes completely through the head (out the bottom).  The screw would thread through the bottom of the head up into the hosel and then screwed into an "insert" that is glued into the shaft tip.  It's fairly simple and easily standardized.  Loft/Lie bends would not change one bit.

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