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Should your hips rotate at the start of the swing along with arms\shoulders?


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At the completion of the backswing, since the shoulders have turned more than the hips, it makes sense, from a timing perspective,  that the hips follow after the shoulders.  Also, if the hips and shoulders begin turning at the same time, it makes it all to easy to get the club to far inside to early in the backswing.  An all to common fault.  In general, I think most swing sequence instruction would be that the backswing is from the top down and the downswing is from the ground up.

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Everything is moving back toward the target in about .04 sec

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtwTn1oleaA/

 

hogan pmoved everything laterally back to the target not just his hips and so do pretty much all good golf swings - not just hogan, this is a signature move - amg coined the term recentering for it.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_SXD4MFBJ7/

 

hip speed has no correlation to club head speed.  If it did then the lpga players would be the longest, hitting off the knees would significant.y reduce distance (it does t)

 

https://rebelliongolf.com/hip-speed-does-not-equal-club-head-speed/l

 

and sequence graphs show that everything starts back pretty much at the same time too.

 

 

 

Edited by glk
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It's not so much about if they turn as it is about the speed at what they turn.  Basically the best ballstrikers on Tour get their pelvis turn, shoulder turn, chest turn and arm swing to stop at the top of the swing at the same time according to AMG collected from GEARS.

 

But let's say you have a fairly standard 90* shoulder turn and 45* pelvis turn in your backswing.  The shoulders have to 'travel' much further than your pelvis.  So you could start turning your pelvis immediately in the takeaway, but that pelvis will need to slow down later in the backswing in order to allow for the shoulder turn and arm swing to 'catch up' and arrive at the final destination at the same time.

 

Personally I try to not turn my pelvis as best as I can into p2.  From there I allow my right oblique to turn and that forces my pelvis to turn into p4.  

 

 

 

RH

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5 hours ago, glk said:

Everything is moving back toward the target in about .04 sec

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtwTn1oleaA/

 

hogan pmoved everything laterally back to the target not just his hips and so do pretty much all good golf swings - not just hogan, this is a signature move - amg coined the term recentering for it.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_SXD4MFBJ7/

 

hip speed has no correlation to club head speed.  If it did then the lpga players would be the longest, hitting off the knees would significant.y reduce distance (it does t)

 

https://rebelliongolf.com/hip-speed-does-not-equal-club-head-speed/l

 

and sequence graphs show that everything starts back pretty much at the same time too.

 

 

 

The term recentering  of the both the upper body  and lower body is a misnomer . In a Youtube video  about 3 months ago , AMG analyzed  the hip movement towards the target in the backswing of Jon Rahm with an iron and Xander  Schauffele  with a driver They did not even try to analyze any upper body movement because neither of these golfers  show any discernible upper body movement toward the target in their downswings, even as they highlighted movement by the hip/ pelvis  towards the target . 

I am not sure why you posted about Monte on hip movement.

No one is arguing that rib cage rotation along with the associated arm speed is not a vital factor in club head speed . 

Many top players  and long driver  competitors have such superior flexibility / range of motion in their thoracic spine that they naturally can restrict their pelvic movement going back.Some  like Kyle Berkshire rotate their pelvis only a relatively small amount , while rotating their thoracic spine / shoulders an incredible amount. 
Women naturally have greater range of motion in their hips/ pelvis. Top women players generally rotate their hips/ pelvis to a much greater degree than top men golfers. 
Thus women have a longer period of time to accelerate their hips/ pelvis and build up speed in their hips/ pelvis , but that does not necessarily relate to superior rib cage speed. 
 

The photos / videos of Mr Hogan on the grid are superior  because the grid clearly  shows a reference point . 
That video clearly shows lateral movement by the hips/ pelvis in transition . It also shows rotation and some lateral movement of the head going back and some lateral movement  by the head towards the target going down, but only slightly in front of his head position at setup and nothing that would qualify as the teeter- totter drill  suggested by AMG. 

 

Edited by golfarb1
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21 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

The term recentering  of the both the upper body  and lower body is a misnomer . In a Youtube video  about 3 months ago , AMG analyzed  the hip movement towards the target in the backswing of Jon Rahm with an iron and Xander  Schauffele  with a driver They did not even try to analyze any upper body movement because neither of these golfers  show any discernible upper body movement toward the target in their downswings, even as they highlighted movement by the hip/ pelvis  towards the target . 

I am not sure why you posted about Monte on hip movement.

No one is arguing that rib cage rotation along with the associated arm speed is not a vital factor in club head speed . 

Many top players  and long driver  competitors have such superior flexibility / range of motion in their thoracic spine that they naturally can restrict their pelvic movement going back.Some  like Kyle Berkshire rotate their pelvis only a relatively small amount , while rotating their thoracic spine / shoulders an incredible amount. 
Women naturally have greater range of motion in their hips/ pelvis. Top women players generally rotate their hips/ pelvis to a much greater degree than top men golfers. 
Thus women have a longer period of time to accelerate their hips/ pelvis and build up speed in their hips/ pelvis , but that does not necessarily relate to superior rib cage speed. 
 

The photos / videos of Mr Hogan on the grid are superior  because the grid clearly  shows a reference point . 
That video clearly shows lateral movement by the hips/ pelvis in transition . It also shows rotation and some lateral movement of the head going back and some lateral movement  by the head towards the target going down, but only slightly in front of his head position at setup and nothing that would qualify as the teeter- totter drill  suggested by AMG. 

 

No upper body movement?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CIYJGbZjtrx/

 

rahm doesn’t recenter?    https://www.instagram.com/p/CC3rE-VlbWD/
 

 

sorry , you misunderstand.

 

 

 

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Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.

Laugh-a while you can, monkey boy.
Enjoy every sandwich

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Simplistically the backswing is hands and feet together and the downswing is from the ground up feet first. The slack is taken out and from there it's a chain reaction.

 

Energy flows from the ground up to your shoulders, down your arms, the shaft and into the club head. The arms and hands are reactionary conduits. The energy flows like water flowing through a garden hose, WOOSH. Tension kinks up the hose. 

 

 

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OP, why not ask Mr. Hogan how to swing the club?  On page 69 and following (Five Lessons...) he tells us 'the shoulders pull the hips around'.  Never, ever, do the hips turn the shoulders.

 

Hogan's book will cost you $5 or less in a used book shop.  Or FREE at the library.  Learn from the master, not the various voices found here.

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4 minutes ago, jobin said:

OP, why not ask Mr. Hogan how to swing the club?  On page 69 and following (Five Lessons...) he tells us 'the shoulders pull the hips around'.  Never, ever, do the hips turn the shoulders.

 

Hogan's book will cost you $5 or less in a used book shop.  Or FREE at the library.  Learn from the master, not the various voices found here.

I hope you are referring to the shoulders pulling the hips in the backswing and opposite at transition!  I tossed the book out since his vids are much better.

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