Jump to content

Clubs Going Same Distance


DHoch
 Share

Recommended Posts

One important caveat to start: I'm not sure this discussion belongs in the equipment forum, but it doesn't feel exactly like an instruction question at this point, but it may actually be one.

 

So today I decided to conduct an experiment: what is the actual distance gap between my 4i (21.5 degrees), hybrid (19 degrees) and 4w (16 degrees)? 10 balls with each club from the same spot in the fairway 220ish yards away from the green. Result? One large cluster of balls with no discernable difference between them. The reason I think this may be an equipment issue is that even if I was swinging the club poorly, there should still be some sort of gap between each of the three clubs, just shorter of where I'd expect them or in a wider dispersion. Given the lofts and lengths of the clubs, I was expecting 10 yards between the 4i and hybrid, and 20 yards between the hybrid and 4w. The reason I conducted the experiment was because I had been noticing a pattern with where shots ended up in the last couple of months, so I don't think this is just a case of small sample size.

 

Now the important question: what do I do about it? My immediate suspicion is that I need to go to regular flex shafts instead of stiff. My 7i swing speed is in the low 80s, and my driver swing speed only touches the low/mid 90s. I don't think I'm generating enough speed with the longer clubs. Could that be the culprit? Any other ideas? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, DHoch said:

One important caveat to start: I'm not sure this discussion belongs in the equipment forum, but it doesn't feel exactly like an instruction question at this point, but it may actually be one.

 

So today I decided to conduct an experiment: what is the actual distance gap between my 4i (21.5 degrees), hybrid (19 degrees) and 4w (16 degrees)? 10 balls with each club from the same spot in the fairway 220ish yards away from the green. Result? One large cluster of balls with no discernable difference between them. The reason I think this may be an equipment issue is that even if I was swinging the club poorly, there should still be some sort of gap between each of the three clubs, just shorter of where I'd expect them or in a wider dispersion. Given the lofts and lengths of the clubs, I was expecting 10 yards between the 4i and hybrid, and 20 yards between the hybrid and 4w. The reason I conducted the experiment was because I had been noticing a pattern with where shots ended up in the last couple of months, so I don't think this is just a case of small sample size.

 

Now the important question: what do I do about it? My immediate suspicion is that I need to go to regular flex shafts instead of stiff. My 7i swing speed is in the low 80s, and my driver swing speed only touches the low/mid 90s. I don't think I'm generating enough speed with the longer clubs. Could that be the culprit? Any other ideas? 

 

Different playing lengths, shaft weights, and swing weights can effect the delivery of different individuals in different ways.   Just because the static lofts are different doesn't mean that the difference in dynamic lofts will match the differences in the static lofts.   Also longer doesn't always mean you'll get a faster swing speed or even if it does increase, can negatively effect the face impact in a way that might negate the increase.

 

So without seeing the LM numbers for those clubs (club head speed, ball speed, dynamic loft, AoA, launch angle, and spin are the important ones) it's impossible to say what you should expect and what you might need.

 

Going to a softer flex is generally not going to gain you any club head speed nor does a stiffer flex typically cause one to loose club head speed.   It can happen but usually only if there is a problem in the way the shaft feels to the user.   If they feel too stiff and like you may not be loading them enough, that can cause swing changes that might be detrimental to the speed.   But that's just a feel or perception, in reality there is no benefit or need to load shafts any particular amount.    So only by comparing LM numbers (side-by-side) with different flexes or stiffness will really show how that might be influencing the result or if changing stiffness might help.

 

So the bottom line is - there is no simple answer here without a lot more data and testing.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I swing a driver at 90mph absolute max, more like mid-upper 80's normally. My driver carry distance is 190-ish yards on average.

 

If I did the same experiment I have no doubt I'd get the same results. I definitely know that a 15-degree 3w and an 18-degree 5w end up exactly the same distance for me and a 20-degree hybrid is either the same or just a very few yards shorter than the fairway woods.

 

The longest iron in my set is a 21-degree 5-iron (very strong lofted Rogue X irons) and I suspect in that experiment it would go about the same total distance as the 20-degree hybrid. 

 

There are some differences in carry vs. roll. The 21-degree iron fly very low and is going to roll a long way to get the same distance as the hybrid or woods. For me probably the 18-degree 5w would have the longest carry distance, slightly. 

 

That's just the nature of a slow swings unless you are able to make extremely efficient contact (like some of women on the LPGA Tour for instance). There's a certain loft necessary to get optimum carry distance hitting off the deck and for our swings it's probably down around 20 degrees somewhere. The only way to get more distance is to use a club that rolls out more or put a tee under the ball.

 

Just pick whichever of those four clubs you're more comfortable hitting in terms of percentage of good vs. bad shots or how often you hit disaster shots. For myself, I chose the 20-degree hybrid as the one that is "safest" in terms of bad results while going about my max off-the-turf distance of 180-something yards (roughly 170 carry plus 10-15 yards of roll). 

  • Like 1

From August 18, 2021 I will be away from GolfWRX for a while.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, DHoch said:

One important caveat to start: I'm not sure this discussion belongs in the equipment forum, but it doesn't feel exactly like an instruction question at this point, but it may actually be one.

 

So today I decided to conduct an experiment: what is the actual distance gap between my 4i (21.5 degrees), hybrid (19 degrees) and 4w (16 degrees)? 10 balls with each club from the same spot in the fairway 220ish yards away from the green. Result? One large cluster of balls with no discernable difference between them. The reason I think this may be an equipment issue is that even if I was swinging the club poorly, there should still be some sort of gap between each of the three clubs, just shorter of where I'd expect them or in a wider dispersion. Given the lofts and lengths of the clubs, I was expecting 10 yards between the 4i and hybrid, and 20 yards between the hybrid and 4w. The reason I conducted the experiment was because I had been noticing a pattern with where shots ended up in the last couple of months, so I don't think this is just a case of small sample size.

 

Now the important question: what do I do about it? My immediate suspicion is that I need to go to regular flex shafts instead of stiff. My 7i swing speed is in the low 80s, and my driver swing speed only touches the low/mid 90s. I don't think I'm generating enough speed with the longer clubs. Could that be the culprit? Any other ideas? 

 

My first guess would be at that swing speed, the lofts are too closely spaced to get the correct gapping. Going off the lofts, I would expect both gaps to be less than 10 yards. 

 

I believe at that swing speed, depending on your delivery most fitters would put your highest lofted wood in the 18 degree-ish range. Less loft doesn't equate to more distance because most likely the ball won't stay in the air long enough.

TM M1 440 2017 - Tensei White 60s - 44.5"

TM M5 15* - Rogue 110 70s - 43"

TEE CBX119 18* - EvenFlow Blue 85s - 41"

MP-32 3-PW (23*-48*) - Nippon SP Blue

SM8 54F - Nippon Modus3 125 Wedge

SM8 60T - Nippon Modus3 125 Wedge

Nike Method 003

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a scientist who has studied this issue I have to conclude that carrying a full set of clubs is just wishful thinking.  My swing speed is just too slow.

It may be more useful for me to think of club selection in terms of lie and landing rather than carry distance. 

Choosing my 2nd shot in terms of landing on the fairway, rough, or deep rough.   Either a 7W, 6H, or 7I.

Choosing my approach shot based on whether I can roll the ball onto the green or whether it needs lots of backspin to stay on the green.

No sense in hitting the green if it is just going to end up in a bunker.  Better to take two shots and get on the green.

Edited by ShortGolfer
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you can hit the ball 220 yards off the ground with multiple clubs, then your golfing ability is just fine for reasonable length courses.  I play in a work league and probably 10% of the people can hit the ball 220 yards off the ground.  90s swing speed is not fast by WRX standards, but is just fine for the average guy.  You can play very good golf with that distance.

 

The thread replies are doom & gloom to me and I'm a lot slower than the OP!  Swinging mid-high 80s like I do does suck somewhat, but if I'm shooting around 45/9 holes anyway it is in no way my real limitation. 

 

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a very good experiment as feedback is the source for improvement. Now take those clubs to a Trackman, get some numbers and strike location and see where you go from there. Finding clubs that fit and hit gaps is where the fun is at.

PXG PROTO 0811X 9*
CALLAWAY X2 HOT 3 DEEP 14.5*
PXG PROTO 0317X  HYBRIDS 19*, 22*

SRIXON ZX5 4-P
CLEVELAND ZIPCORE RAW 52*, 58*FF

ODYSSEY WHITE HOT TOUR 2 / TRIFORCE 2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would suspect it is a matter of flight and the quality of strike. The 4I would have a lower trajectory with more rollout. The Hybrid would carry a bit further/higher and settle quickly. The fact that they are in "generally" the same area (especially with the 4W) would indicate a various degrees of quality contact among the different clubs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is absolutely caused by a lack of speed combined with low lofts. Speed creates height and spin and without enough of either the ball won't stay in the air.

 

Your best bet is to play a 19 or 21 degree fairway wood as your lowest lofted club after the driver followed by a 23 degree hybrid or 24 degree iron. An exception could be made for a 15 degree 3w if you use it exclusively off the tee.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was it damp or wet when you did this test? Look I'm probably real close swingspeed wise... though if I'm 220yds out it's my sft 3wd set @17* and no other club is getting me there......my 7wd travels 190yds in the air & my sft 17* 3wd travels 198yds in the air - my 7wd stops at 190yds - my 3wd will run out to 212yds

 

I have a 23.5* 9wd as well that can travel a long ways in the air....but generally 175yds comfortable- though I've hit the green from 205yds multiple times

Ping Sunday Bag
9 Clubs of Freedom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, jimb said:

What I believe is slower our clubhead speed gets the smaller the distance gaps as the clubs get longer.  I am 72 and I have lost distance gradually over the past several years.  I noticed that in my own distances.

 

 

I'm 69 and have noticed the same situation myself. I've actually started playing with a short set of clubs (7 or 8) to get a reasonable gapping for the clubs. Added a 7 wood and 5 hybrid, these have helped me get my game back into a more reasonable shape - along with moving up to the senior tees. Having more fun playing than in past 5 years!

  • Like 2

Just an older guy with 7 or 8 clubs and a MacKenzie Sunday Walker bag

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had the same thing happen to me with my 4-5-6 irons, they all went about the same distance - almost all the time.

Was a set of irons I fit myself for.  Thought I would benefit from 'high launch' shafts.  When I got fitted...fitter was like - uhh, just because it claims to be High Launch does not mean your swing with them will be high launch!

 

I got fit for new irons/shafts and viola! proper gapping by using shafts that were a better fit for my swing.  A traditional set of shafts and proper gapping and higher launch.

Driver (9.0) - Cobra F9 Aldila Rogue Silver 70 S, 44.5"
Wood (14.5) - Ping G425 MAX Alta CB 65 Slate S

Wood (17.5) - Ping G425 MAX Alta CB 65 Slate S
Driving Iron (20) - Srixon U65 Project X 5.5
Irons (5-6) - Srixon Z565 Project X 5.5
Irons (7-P) - Srixon Z765 Project X 5.5
Wedges - Vokey SM-7 Jet Black / 50.08 F / 54.08 M / 58.08 M DG S300
Putter - Edel E-1
Ball - Titleist Prov1x
ZGrip Midsized Grips

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it really a swing speed issue if he's hitting the 4 iron 220 or  a 19* hybrid?  I think more data is needed to figure this one out.  The only way a slow swing speed is hitting a 220 4 iron is if the ground is rock solid, and the shot is a low line drive with a lot of momentum.  I would assume based on these two clubs, at that yardage, driver speed is at least 105. 

Taylormade Sim 2 8* Fujikura Pro Tour Spec 73x

Taylormade M3 3 Wood Accra FX 300

Callaway Epic Super Hybrid 18* Steelfiber FC 

Taylormade P770  4-PW Rifle 6.0

MG2 50/54/60 S400

TM Itsy Bitsy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

Is it really a swing speed issue if he's hitting the 4 iron 220 or  a 19* hybrid?  I think more data is needed to figure this one out.  The only way a slow swing speed is hitting a 220 4 iron is if the ground is rock solid, and the shot is a low line drive with a lot of momentum.  I would assume based on these two clubs, at that yardage, driver speed is at least 105. 

The Op said he swing his 7 iron low 80 and driver in the mid 90.

 

I hit my 7 iron upper 80 and driver 103 and my lower iron I only play up to 6 iron for last several years.  Hybrids and fws are your friend, higher launching, spin more and better decent angle.

TM Sim2 10.5, Autoflex 505

TM Sim2 Ti 3 wood, turn down to 13, GD AD TP 6S.
Titleist 16.5 TS2, GD AD TP 6S

Ping G425 3 Hybrid, turn up to 20, Alta CB S.
Callaway Mavrik 5 Hybrid Project X Cataylst 70 6.0
PXG Gen4 0311P, 6 to PW. KBS TGI 80.

PXG Forge Gap Wedge, KBS TGI 80.
TM MG2 54, 58. KBS TGI 95.
Odyssey 2 Balls Armlock.

Snell MTB X.  Vessel Player 3 Stand Bag.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, shaolingolfer said:

Hybrids and fws are your friend, higher launching, spin more and better decent angle.

 

Which is why if it were simply a swing speed issue, one would normally expect to see at least slightly better distance with the hybrid and fairway, not the same distance.   More details are needed before shrugging it off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a bit of the same problem as the OP with similar swing speeds. The top end of the bag is always troublesome. I think less choice is better. Pick one of the three clubs you hit best and take the others out of the bag for a few rounds. See if you miss them. My bet is you won't. I've played most of my rounds this year with driver and 20 degree hybrid as the two highest lofted clubs followed by 6i. Played some of my best golf ever. That second club really only gets used to make up ground after a mishit off the tee or on Par 5's, and realistically I'm not trying to hold a green in either situation. I'm only ever trying to hold a green from 165-170 which is 6i or 5h depending on the lie and green. For me, a fairway wood is useless except off the tee unless you consider trying to figure out which one of 2-3 clubs to use an advantage. Hybrids are easier to hit for me and more versatile in real playing situations, so I stick with them. YMMV of course.

 

I would agree with ShortGolfer. For the average golfer, 14 clubs is excessive. I play good golf with these clubs in my bag. Each individual would have a different setup of course. I came to this after examining my stats and club usage.

Driver - G400 Max 10.5

Hybrid - Callaway BB19 20 degree (sometimes set at 19 depending on the course and my swing that day)

Hybrid - Cobra F9 OL 25 degree

7i - PW - F9 OL

GW - Maltby TSW 52 degree

SW - Mack Daddy PM Grind 56 (rarely used, but the only single purpose club other than the putter you have to keep in the bag)

Putter - Odyssey WH #7

* note there is a significant gap between the PW and 52 degree wedge, but I just haven't found anything the F9 GW adds to my game that I can't do with either the PW or 52.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Our picks

    • 2021 Fortinet Championship - Discussion and Links
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #1
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #2
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #3
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #4
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #5
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #6
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #7
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #8
       
       
      New Ping putter - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      New Bettinardi putters & Cover - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Ping Putters - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Odyssey putters - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Cameron putter and new ball marker - 2021 Fortinet Championship
       
       
      Sneds - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Peter Uihlein - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Charles Howell, III - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Scott Piercy - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Brandan Steele - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Mito Pereira - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Kevin Tway - WITB -2021 Fortinet Championship
      Joseph Bramlett - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
       
       
       
      • 19 replies
    • 2021 Tour Championship - Discussion and Comments
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      Odyssey putters - 2021 Tour Championship
      LA Golf putter shafts - 2021 Tour Championship
       
       
       
      • 25 replies
    • 2021 BMW Championship - Discussion and Links
      Put any questions of comments here
       
       
      2021 BMW Championship - Tuesday #1
      2021 BMW Championship - Tuesday #2
      2021 BMW Championship - Tuesday #3
      2021 BMW Championship - Tuesday #4
      2021 BMW Championship - Tuesday #5
      2021 BMW Championship - Tuesday #6
      2021 BMW Championship - Tuesday #7
       
       
      Cameron T-11 & T-11.5 putters at 2021 BMW Championship
      Mizuno Pro FliHi and 225 irons - 2021 BMW CHampionship
       
       
       
      • 18 replies
    • 2021 Ping i59 irons & Glide Forged wedges in hand comparison pics!!!
      In hand pics of the new 2021 Ping i59 irons and Glide Forged wedges...
       

       
      Ping i59 7 iron
       

       
       
      Ping i59 PW
       

       
      Ping i59 Comparison Photos

       

       

       

       
       
       
       
      PING Glide Forged Wedges

       
      Ping Glide Eye Toe Wedge
       
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 100 replies
    • 2021 The Northern Trust - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      2021 The Northern Trust - Tuesday #1
      2021 The Northern Trust - Tuesday #2
      2021 The Northern Trust - Tuesday #3
      2021 The Northern Trust - Tuesday #4
      2021 The Northern Trust - Tuesday #5
      2021 The Northern Trust - Tuesday #6
      2021 The Northern Trust - Tuesday #7
       
       
      New Cameron for JT - 2021 The Northern Trust
      New Cameron putters for Garrick Higgo - 2021 The Northern Trust
      New Odyssey putter covers - 2021 The Northern Trust
       
       
      • 6 replies

×
×
  • Create New...