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Counterbalanced shafts vs. swingweight


Stoox
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I have a Callaway Rogue with a UST Helium (58 gr) at 45.75" that swing weights at C8 with the standard 5 gr weight.

When I measured it, I thought it was too light, and put in a 9 gr weight (+ 4 gr) - the club now swingweights D1.5.

 

But this got me thinking - are counterbalanced driver/fairway shafts supposed to swingweight lighter regardless? Are they intended to create a feel at C8 that is supposed to similar to one at D1 with a non-counterblanaced shaft?

 

I understand that among all of the variables associated with golf clubs, swingweight is among the least important - as long as you don't have wide variances across a set, especially a set of irons, you're probably OK. All of my woods/hybrids/irons are now around D1, which is fine...

 

But the reason I ask is that I am considering taking 1/2" off the driver for consistency's sake - this would bring the swingweight back to C8.5 - essentially negating the extra weight I dropped into the port.

 

Are counterbalanced shafts supposed to swingweight 3 points lower according to the swing weight scale, but have the same 'feel'?

Edited by Stoox
C8.5 vs D8.5

Callaway Rogue 10.5/UST Helium
Callaway Rogue 5w/PX Even Flow 75
Nike VR Pro 21/PX
Ping i210 4-PW/AWT2.0 
Ping Glide 2.0 54, 58
Odyssey #9 White Ice
Wilson Duo Professional (yellow)

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1 hour ago, Stoox said:

I have a Callaway Rogue with a UST Helium (58 gr) at 45.75" that swing weights at C8 with the standard 5 gr weight.

When I measured it, I thought it was too light, and put in a 9 gr weight (+ 4 gr) - the club now swingweights D1.5.

 

But this got me thinking - are counterbalanced driver/fairway shafts supposed to swingweight lighter regardless? Are they intended to create a feel at C8 that is supposed to similar to one at D1 with a non-counterblanaced shaft?

 

I understand that among all of the variables associated with golf clubs, swingweight is among the least important - as long as you don't have wide variances across a set, especially a set of irons, you're probably OK. All of my woods/hybrids/irons are now around D1, which is fine...

 

But the reason I ask is that I am considering taking 1/2" off the driver for consistency's sake - this would bring the swingweight back to D8.5 - essentially negating the extra weight I dropped into the port.

 

Are counterbalanced shafts supposed to swingweight 3 points lower according to the swing weight scale, but have the same 'feel'?

 

I think you mislabeled when you wrote D8.5 and meant C8.5 since you would be going back close to wear you started from

 
I have a counterbalance shaft that I cut 1 inch and added a bunch of weight to the head…….. I know why use a counterbalanced shaft..,,… we’ll because the profile fits my swing, and I don’t care where it’s balance point started, so I just went with a shaft that I knew I liked, then went through Howard’s DIY tune up
 

I don’t know where the swing weight was before, nor do I know where it is now,  but I know that it works great. 
 

I think you should try it.

 

You could always go through Howard’s DIY driver tune up which will cover everything you are thinking of doing in great detail. 
 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Stoox said:

I have a Callaway Rogue with a UST Helium (58 gr) at 45.75" that swing weights at C8 with the standard 5 gr weight.

When I measured it, I thought it was too light, and put in a 9 gr weight (+ 4 gr) - the club now swingweights D1.5.

 

But this got me thinking - are counterbalanced driver/fairway shafts supposed to swingweight lighter regardless? Are they intended to create a feel at C8 that is supposed to similar to one at D1 with a non-counterblanaced shaft?

 

No.  They are supposed to allow heavier head weights at the longer lengths w/o letting the swing weight get out of hand.

 

"Counterbalanced" shafts is usually a misnomer.  True counterbalancing is adding weight to the very butt of the club.  When that happens, the changes on a swing weight scale are meaningless since the scale was never designed to manage butt weight changes.   But with the shafts, it's really a change in the mass distribution throughout the whole shaft, not just an added concentration in the butt.  So swing weight scale changes are more representative of the head weight feel and MOI changes to the club then with true counterbalancing.

 

Quote

I understand that among all of the variables associated with golf clubs, swingweight is among the least important - as long as you don't have wide variances across a set, especially a set of irons, you're probably OK.

 

Everyone is different in their sensitivities, but whoever told you swing weight was the least important doesn't know what they're talking about.  For most head weight is the second or third most important fitting spec depending on who you ask.  Now the swing weight value itself is unimportant since it's not an absolute representation of the head weight feel.   So don't get overly fixated on the value, but a good fit for head weight can be very important for many.   The value is only useful in matching clubs that are basically the same (like a set of irons all with the same exact shaft and very small length increments).   Which means that whatever value worked best in one club isn't necessarily going to be the best fit in a different club - especially when there are significant changes to shaft weight or playing length.   The confusion and misunderstandings about that is what leads many to think it's unimportant.

 

 

Quote

But the reason I ask is that I am considering taking 1/2" off the driver for consistency's sake - this would bring the swingweight back to D8.5 - essentially negating the extra weight I dropped into the port.

 

That's what lead tape or aftermarket replacement weights are for.   But again, don't get overly fixated on the swing weight value.   Just go to the range, add the lead tape incrementally (1-2 gm at a time) until you find the best feel and performance from the club.  Then if you want you can find an aftermarket weight to replace the lead tape.

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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@Stuart_G - thanks a lot for the detailed reply, and the driver tuneup share.

 

My takeaway is that I shouldn't really worry about D1.5 vs a C8.5 for this driver...I will likely take the 0.5" off.

 

Still seems weird to have a swingweight in the Cs...

Callaway Rogue 10.5/UST Helium
Callaway Rogue 5w/PX Even Flow 75
Nike VR Pro 21/PX
Ping i210 4-PW/AWT2.0 
Ping Glide 2.0 54, 58
Odyssey #9 White Ice
Wilson Duo Professional (yellow)

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45 minutes ago, Stoox said:

@Stuart_G - thanks a lot for the detailed reply, and the driver tuneup share.

 

My takeaway is that I shouldn't really worry about D1.5 vs a C8.5 for this driver...I will likely take the 0.5" off.

 

Still seems weird to have a swingweight in the Cs...

 

The short version of the take away is:

Head weight adjustment may or may not be needed.  Don't use the swing weight value to determine that adjustment.  Instead, go to the range with some lead tape to dial it in by feel.

 

That will tell you both 1) what might be needed and 2) how much of a difference it makes for you or how important it is.

Edited by Stuart_G
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