Jump to content

Shaft plane / Shoulder Turn


Recommended Posts

Very simple question I’ve wondered about for years and hoping to get clarity on. 
 

Should the angle of the shoulder turn in the takeaway, match the shaft plane established at address?

 

I know that you’re supposed to turn 90* to the spine, I get that, but it’s difficult for me to feel it when in my posture. My own guess is that the answer to the above question is no, because if you stood completely upright with a very long handled implement (think club a couple feet longer than a driver) resting on the ground and simply turned horizontally to the ground (90* to spine since you’re upright), the club would not move on the shaft plane without help from The hands and arms. In fact, the end of the “club” would never get off the ground until you did something with your hands/arms. And despite my best efforts, I can’t convince myself that a weird awkward side bend type turn is a normal athletic movement in this scenario. Who would actually do that in an athletic motion when standing upright and very long handed implement?  I think I’ve been wasting time on a poor concept I came up with in my mind about turning on the shaft plane and hands/arms doing nothing
 

Feedback would be much appreciated bc I need to commit to a concept in the worst way. 
 

 

Edited by FormerBigDaddy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 11
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

The shaft plane established at address is below the inclined plane you want to swing on. As the left arm approaches parallel to the ground in the backswing the left arm, shoulder, shaft and club face start coming onto the inclined plane. 

 

There are multiple actions that get you there. Shifting, extending, flexing, turning and winding. At the top everything should be perfectly on plane so you can sling the clubhead hard.

 

If you aren't on plane you won't be able to maximize your distance potential and you won't hit the ball where you want it to go.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Zitlow said:

The shaft plane established at address is below the inclined plane you want to swing on. As the left arm approaches parallel to the ground in the backswing the left arm, shoulder, shaft and club face start coming onto the inclined plane. 

 

There are multiple actions that get you there. Shifting, extending, flexing, turning and winding. At the top everything should be perfectly on plane so you can sling the clubhead hard.

 

If you aren't on plane you won't be able to maximize your distance potential and you won't hit the ball where you want it to go.  

I understand all that… my concern is the takeaway before the the shaft/club get above the shaft plane and on a more inclined plane. From what I’ve always understood, in a good takeaway the clubhead should travel up the shaft plane and through the hands. 
 

So back to my original question, should my shoulder turn be able to solely get the club moving up that shaft plane in the takeaway? And I’m taking with hands and arms doing absolutely nothing.
 

I think I answered it myself but again I just want clarity. 

Edited by FormerBigDaddy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

I understand all that… my concern is the takeaway before the the shaft/club get above the shaft plane and on a more inclined plane. From what I’ve always understood, in a good takeaway the clubhead should travel up the shaft plane and through the hands. 
 

So back to my original question, should my shoulder turn be able to solely get the club moving up that shaft plane in the takeaway? And I’m taking with hands and arms doing absolutely nothing.
 

I think I answered it myself but again I just want clarity. 

 

The answers you seek are in "Decoding the Golf Swing Plane"

https://www.amazon.com/Decoding-Golf-Swing-Plane-Striking-ebook/dp/B00M8CCN1C/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Imo the effortless fast swing comes from shoulder turn, if u watch people closely, most ppl don't do a full shoulder turn.

 

I believe the club and shoulder turn are close to the same plane.

 

I think driver the club plane is slightly shallower than shoulders, and irons I believe the club plane is slightly more upright than shoulder turn.

 

You have to really point your left shoulder at the ball.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually think I’m 

15 minutes ago, N0rs3man said:

Imo the effortless fast swing comes from shoulder turn, if u watch people closely, most ppl don't do a full shoulder turn.

 

I believe the club and shoulder turn are close to the same plane.

 

I think driver the club plane is slightly shallower than shoulders, and irons I believe the club plane is slightly more upright than shoulder turn.

 

You have to really point your left shoulder at the ball.

I actually think you’re right and I’m completely wrong. I’ve experimented for a long time and have been going back and forth lately. Just took an old broomstick outside to test my hypothesis. Just started swinging it in different ways to see how I could create the most speed with it (loudest swoosh) and I most definitely ended up turning steeper with some side bend. I could feel my body really torque and wind up… very spring like. Arms doing nothing at all and the swoosh was much louder this way than trying to turn on a flatter plane with more arm lift/swing. Wasn’t close and much less moving parts. Could really feel my torso and lower half working. 
 

Ive played some good rounds this way but I seem to lack commitment. A few bad shots and I go to something else. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

I actually think I’m 

I actually think you’re right and I’m completely wrong. I’ve experimented for a long time and have been going back and forth lately. Just took an old broomstick outside to test my hypothesis. Just started swinging it in different ways to see how I could create the most speed with it (loudest swoosh) and I most definitely ended up turning steeper with some side bend. I could feel my body really torque and wind up… very spring like. Arms doing nothing at all and the swoosh was much louder this way than trying to turn on a flatter plane with more arm lift/swing. Wasn’t close and much less moving parts. Could really feel my torso and lower half working. 
 

Ive played some good rounds this way but I seem to lack commitment. A few bad shots and I go to something else. 

Once I embraced it, I added 40 yards off the driver

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, N0rs3man said:

Once I embraced it, I added 40 yards off the driver

Do you have any videos or resources that helped you embrace it? I’ve had my moments, definitely longer. But I did hit some smothered low hooks and big pull draws. I suspect it was from not transitioning properly but I didn’t stay with it long enough to find out. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

Do you have any videos or resources that helped you embrace it? I’ve had my moments, definitely longer. But I did hit some smothered low hooks and big pull draws. I suspect it was from not transitioning properly but I didn’t stay with it long enough to find out. 

No not really I just went with what hurt the next and and or what felt like a good swing in the moment. 

 

Hooks and pulls might be getting club too inside, try take a weaker grip or take club straight back

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

Take it straight back with shoulders /torso?

Well I mean on your backswing, start with the clubhead going straight down the target line the first couple inches, the hands and arms will start but the shoulders will be pretty much at the same time. 

 

I guess what I'm trying to do is just not get too steep or too shallow with the club, if you are hooking and pull draw you are probably getting too shallow. Causing your hands to compensate by rolling the face square at impact. 

 

If you have a driver in your hands you may want to keep a shallow plane, for an upward aoa. In that case a weaker grip would allow the shallow plane and straight ball flight. If you have an iron in your hands you want a steeper plane so you can have negative aoa. Which requires a little different arm path.

 

I'd assume if you wanted the exact same take away and swing on every swing you would have to adopt ben hogan's model for ball and foot position.

 

I don't do that bc open stance on short irons hurts my lower back, and I have single length clubs so my stance is the same every time.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Our picks

    • 2021 RSM Classic - Discussion and Links
      2021 RSM Classic - Monday
      2021 RSM Classic - Tuesday #1
      2021 RSM Classic - Tuesday #2
       
       
      Trey Mullinax - WITB - 2021 RSM Classic
      Brett Drewitt - WITB - 2021 RSM Classic
      Matt Wallace - WITB - 2021 RSM Classic
      Josh Creel - WITB - 2021 RSM Classic
      Ben Crane - WITB - 2021 RSM Classic
      Justin Lower - WITB - 2021 RSM Classic
      Adam Svensson - WITB - 2021 RSM Classic
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2021 RSM Classic
      Webb Simpson - WITB - 2021 RSM Classic
      Chesson Hadley - WITB - 2021 RSM Classic
      Kiradech Aphibarnrat - WITB - 2021 RSM Classic
      Bill Haas - WITB - 2021 RSM Classic
      Max Homa - WITB - 2021 RSM Classic
      Nick Watney - WITB - 2021 RSM Classic
       
       
      New Odyssey Tri Hot putters - 2021 RSM Classic
       
       
       
       
      • 2 replies
    • 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open - Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
      Pat Perez - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Tony Finau - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Kramer Hickok - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Paul Barjon - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Nate Lashley - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Seamus Powers - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Dylan Frittelli - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      C.T. Pan - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Chase Koepka - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Branden Grace - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Marc Leishman - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Martin Laird - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Shane Lowery - WITB - @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
       
      Cameron CT T-11 putter - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      New Graphite Design shafts - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Cameron cover from 2021 ZOZO Championship - @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Bettinardi covers - @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Cameron CT putters - @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
       
       
      2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open - Tuesday #1
      2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open - Tuesday #2
      2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open - Tuesday #3
      2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open - Tuesday #4
      2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open - Wednesday #1
      2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open - Wednesday #2
      2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open - Wednesday #3
       
       
       
       
      • 1 reply
    • APPLY NOW: L.A.B. Golf MEZZ.1 Putter (Early Access) Member Testing! 10 Testers Needed!
      L.A.B. Golf is choosing ten GolfWRX members to receive their MEZZ.1 putter early and put their brand new product to the test before reporting back to the community about what they see. The selected testers will be one of the first to experience the MEZZ.1 from L.A.B. GOLF, their newest Lie Angle Balanced design, ahead of it's January 2022 launch!
       
      About The L.A.B. Golf Mezz.1 Putter
      MEZZ.1 is our new mid-mallet putter that’s fully CNC machined from a billet of 6061 aircraft aluminum (body) and 303 stainless steel (midsection) to create our best-feeling — and we think best looking — putter to date. It includes 10 weights (eight on the bottom, two on the sides) that allow us to individually build each putter to a golfer’s exact specifications.
       
      How To Apply
      In a post below, answer the following questions.
       
      1. City, State?
      2. Handicap?
      3. What is your current putter?
      4. Have you ever used a L.A.B. Golf putter?
      5. Why do you want to review the MEAZZ.1 putter?
      6. Do you agree to participate in an ongoing testing thread, posting reviews and photos?
       
      That's it! @labgolf and GolfWRX will choose the testers in about 2 weeks! This testing event is for good-standing members in the USA only!
       
      • 435 replies
    • 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
      2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Tuesday #1
      2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Tuesday #2
       
       
      Adam Scott - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Justin Rose - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Collin Morikawa - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Jason Day - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Justin Thomas - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Erik Van Rooyen - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Matt Jones - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Cam Smith - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Byeong Hun An - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Min Kyu - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Joohyung Kim - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Jordan Spieth - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Lucas Glover - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Keegan Bradley - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
       
       
       
      Gary Woodland's new Cameron putter - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Kevin Na's new Odyssey/Toulon putter - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Jucie wedges & Proto irons - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
       
       
       
       
      • 6 replies
    • 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open WITB Photos- Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here...
       
      Links:
       
      Harry Higgs - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Ian Poulter - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Harry Higgs - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Matt NeSmith - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Doug Ghim - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      New Cameron Las Vegas covers - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      New Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX shafts - 2021 Shriners Hospitals doe Children Open
       
       

       
      • 15 replies

×
×
  • Create New...