Is bagging rampant?

[Rocky Ball-boa]

How much money is at stake at your clubs??

 

I think the biggest prize pool I've ever experienced here tops out at what you'd get a burger and a pint for in the club restaurant. So hardly worth not being able to look yourself in the mirror or  risking dragging your name through the mud to win.

 

My club is a run of the mill muni, and I'm guessing the sums are a bit different at the more up-market private clubs.. but the members' purses should follow suit, so the "risk/reward" calculation would still work out the same way. So I just don't get it?

[jdl]

IMO it's now viewed as part of the game by many. Like cheating on your taxes, if you don't do it you're some kind of rube or sucker.

 

In my 9 hole league, "handicap management" is a common source of post round discussions.

[nsxguy]

9 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I agree with this , but I do find stableford with a running week to week points book to be the absolutely best way.  Or most fair way for a group to play.  Throw in a Blind draw partner of A players and B players and you have a really fair chance of winning. You can’t fake it really.  If you’re willing to loose on purpose 5-6 weeks in a row just to get points down enough to then win the next week , welll that’s stupid strategy because it’s loosing money overall.  So it tends to kill all sandbagging.  

 

The most fair way is NOT Stableford. Nor is it the typical(?) quota or points games. It (sometimes depends on how the quota moves up/down.

 

I played with an old group of guys I used to play with regularly. They played points on Weds. I started around 29 (36- my cap of 7). I played 3 or 4 times. Made 1 point 1 round. Won $5. LOL

 

They had a formula where your quota would go UP half the points you were + but down only 1 at a time.

 

So round 5 I had a great round and shot even par. Made 7 points and won about $49. They raised my quota 4 (3.5 rounded) for the next round so then I needed 33. Are you kidding me? I only made more than 30 the one time so now I have to lose 3 straight times to get back down to 30 ? That was the last round I played with them.

 

Those games move one's "handicap" up and down much faster than WHS. So basically either you think the WHS is correct OR a made up methodology of ("radically") raising and lowering one's cap every round is correct.

 

They CAN'T both be right.

 

The most fair way is to make FLIGHTS where similar handicappers are playing against one another.

 

That way the scratch player who shoots a great round of, say -3, won't be beaten by a 16 handicapper shooting 83. 👍

 

He MAY get beaten by a "4" shooting even par but,,,,,,,,,,,, 

 

 

[bladehunter]

44 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

The most fair way is NOT Stableford. Nor is it the typical(?) quota or points games. It (sometimes depends on how the quota moves up/down.

 

I played with an old group of guys I used to play with regularly. They played points on Weds. I started around 29 (36- my cap of 7). I played 3 or 4 times. Made 1 point 1 round. Won $5. LOL

 

They had a formula where your quota would go UP half the points you were + but down only 1 at a time.

 

So round 5 I had a great round and shot even par. Made 7 points and won about $49. They raised my quota 4 (3.5 rounded) for the next round so then I needed 33. Are you kidding me? I only made more than 30 the one time so now I have to lose 3 straight times to get back down to 30 ? That was the last round I played with them.

 

Those games move one's "handicap" up and down much faster than WHS. So basically either you think the WHS is correct OR a made up methodology of ("radically") raising and lowering one's cap every round is correct.

 

They CAN'T both be right.

 

The most fair way is to make FLIGHTS where similar handicappers are playing against one another.

 

That way the scratch player who shoots a great round of, say -3, won't be beaten by a 16 handicapper shooting 83. 👍

 

He MAY get beaten by a "4" shooting even par but,,,,,,,,,,,, 

 

 

We play it as 4 up or down break out.  So if you’re more than 4 points under quota.  You’d move down 4 that day.  If you’re more than 4 over. You’d move up.  If you’re inside the 8 up or down ( total ) you’d move up or down 1 depending on which side of the quota.  So most people most weeks move 1 point.  So not much.  If you’re dead on slick you don’t move.  
 

the reason I say it works is that you can’t cheat it.  Can’t be done.  The blind draw partners makes sure of it.  Even if you sandbag and drop  4 points two weeks in a row , you need a partner to play well to win.  And even then you won’t beat two partners who play well most times.  Usually takes + 8-+14 to win as a team. 
 

most times you’ll have at least one B player who is +4 or more on his own.  If his A player is also + they usually win.  It’s not dictated  often by the A player. Usually it’s the B player that matters more.  
 

but most importantly it gets A players to participate.  If you do it net with just handicaps. You loose more than half of the A players.  I’m tracking the participation.  It’s crazy how many won’t play in  the club events.  But will play in every single Saturday points game.  And the club events supersede the points game on those designated Saturday’s. So it’s the same exact time and place. They just don’t play in them.   And if they do it’s because  there’s a group or two of them and they are gambling.  So they aren’t really participating with holes of wining , just taking advantage of the preferred member   tee times. 
 

in short.  In these points games.  An A player and a B player wins every single Saturday.  Even split of money , and it’s very rarely the same guy either time two weeks in a row. You don’t get that net.  You get the same Guys winning regularly.  We have a season long points total for these events that shows this.  
 

the reason  it reflects actual current play is that it moves up or down so fast. The changes to the handicap system helped this by changing daily. But. They still have to post every round.  It’s impossible to make sure they all do.  But with the points book.  It’s very easy.  

Edited August 17, 2021 by bladehunter

[bladehunter]

@nsxguy   Thinking about your points game.  You made $49.  What is the buy in ?  $5-6 ?    At $6 you can loose 8 straight times and still be in the black.  Come on.  You can’t win every week !     Sounds like you showed up , won early , and would have to pay some back or play well again .  What about that isn’t fair and correct ?  
 

 

meanwhile. I haven’t placed in the money once in net competition, except in the match play event , and yet I’ve played and donated $20 each in them.  And I’m telling you I don’t have real sandbaggers anymore.  The fact is that it’s exceedingly rare for a low handicap guy to Win a net event.  I made peace with it. I play to support the event , and for practice.   But the fact that I had to do that , means it’s skewed statistically one way.  Right ?  The points game I’m taking about seems to balance that.  

Edited August 17, 2021 by bladehunter

[nsxguy]

11 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

@nsxguy   Thinking about your points game.  You made $49.  What is the buy in ?  $5-6 ?    At $6 you can loose 8 straight times and still be in the black.  Come on.  You can’t win every week !     Sounds like you showed up , won early , and would have to pay some back or play well again .  What about that isn’t fair and correct ?  

 

No, I LOST 4 or 5 times before I won the $49 and got bunped up 4 points - meaning i would've likely had to lose 3 or 4 times again before having a reasonable chance to make + points.

 

And this group had more + points guys per day than any other group I've ever seen. Maybe 6 or 7 guys out of 16-20. So the points were often worth between $5-8.

 

The "buy in" is $20. It covers points, skins and closest on par 3s.

 

Not sure of the exact split.

 

As a contrast a group I play with now, out of about 20 guys has maybe 4 guys who're plus points and points are typically worth about $15. Same game except no closest to pins.

[nsxguy]

30 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

We play it as 4 up or down break out.  So if you’re more than 4 points under quota.  You’d move down 4 that day.  If you’re more than 4 over. You’d move up.  If you’re inside the 8 up or down ( total ) you’d move up or down 1 depending on which side of the quota.  So most people most weeks move 1 point.  So not much.  If you’re dead on slick you don’t move.  
 

the reason I say it works is that you can’t cheat it.  Can’t be done.  The blind draw partners makes sure of it.  Even if you sandbag and drop  4 points two weeks in a row , you need a partner to play well to win.  And even then you won’t beat two partners who play well most times.  Usually takes + 8-+14 to win as a team. 
 

most times you’ll have at least one B player who is +4 or more on his own.  If his A player is also + they usually win.  It’s not dictated  often by the A player. Usually it’s the B player that matters more.  
 

but most importantly it gets A players to participate.  If you do it net with just handicaps. You loose more than half of the A players.  I’m tracking the participation.  It’s crazy how many won’t play in  the club events.  But will play in every single Saturday points game.  And the club events supersede the points game on those designated Saturday’s. So it’s the same exact time and place. They just don’t play in them.   And if they do it’s because  there’s a group or two of them and they are gambling.  So they aren’t really participating with holes of wining , just taking advantage of the preferred member   tee times. 
 

in short.  In these points games.  An A player and a B player wins every single Saturday.  Even split of money , and it’s very rarely the same guy either time two weeks in a row. You don’t get that net.  You get the same Guys winning regularly.  We have a season long points total for these events that shows this.  
 

the reason  it reflects actual current play is that it moves up or down so fast. The changes to the handicap system helped this by changing daily. But. They still have to post every round.  It’s impossible to make sure they all do.  But with the points book.  It’s very easy.  

 

Frankly, I think I've caught your A.D.D.

 

3) Not talking about any partner games - different animal.

 

and

 

b) I really have no idea what you're talking about slick.

 

But do you realize how well you'd have to play to have your 'cap go down ONE full stroke based on ONE round ? (Usually) a differential of EIGHT better than your index. Doesn't happen all that often now, does it ?

 

But if youse guys are happy that's all that counts. 👍

 

 

 

[bladehunter]

7 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Frankly, I think I've caught your A.D.D.

 

3) Not talking about any partner games - different animal.

 

and

 

b) I really have no idea what you're talking about slick.

 

But do you realize how well you'd have to play to have your 'cap go down ONE full stroke based on ONE round ? (Usually) a differential of EIGHT better than your index. Doesn't happen all that often now, does it ?

 

But if youse guys are happy that's all that counts. 👍

 

 

 

Hold on.  Re-read my original post and see the partners mentioned.  I think it’s you ADD showing.  😉.   
 

I don’t think we’re playing same points  games at all. No wonder we can undertake each other.   We’re not playing $ per points. We’re playing a gross total points over or under a quota. Winners take the pot.    Teams players combine. So one guy is plus 4 and the other is -4 you’re even together.     Slick is just slang for even.  So if I’m even quota I’m slick for the day.  My bad.  

[oikos1]

 

I love these threads...handicappers complaining about baggers.  Been around pretty much since, well, handicapping...

[BeerPerHole]

On 8/16/2021 at 8:23 PM, nsxguy said:

 

You and your son are both 11s.

 

That's essentially the same as a single 11 handicap getting 2 chances to hit a drive. After the drive you're only 1 guy.

 

You 2 shot net of -10. How often do either of you post a net of -10 on your own ball ?

 

Now, you say you and that 25 guy are about the same. Is that really true ?

 

If it is, have you looked up his GHIN handicap or checked with the committee ? Seen any anomalies there, especially between tournament and casual rounds ?

 

The A problem is many very experienced players don't really understand the odds. The minute anybody shoots a low net the cries of "sandbagger" ring out.

 

In the USA, on average, there are about 1,000,000 rounds per day.

 

The odds of an 11 shooting a net of -10 is a bit over 84,000 to 1 yet you and your son did it (and yes, I know that the 2nd drive makes a difference - can't be sure how much).

 

So let's say the 2nd drive saved you guys about 4 strokes for the round. Sounds about right ? That lowers your net to about -6. That is a mere 1200 to 1. Still sounds pretty farfetched, no ? Yet you guys did it.

 

I'm guessing neither you nor your son are sandbaggers yet you guys shot a net of -10. The fact that you lost is,,,,,,,, well,,,,,,, interesting (I guess). 

 

 

I appreciate the analysis. FWIW...At the beginning of the season in the same format we shot even par. I'm really an 11 index, yep. But, I never broke 80 on our course playing my own ball. Also, this tournament was 9-hole. Not sure I mentioned that. I hit a lot of fairways with driver, usually 250-270 out...which is unusual for an 11 from what I understand. While my son hits a lot of fairways 280-300 out...which is stupid long for a goofy kid. We tend to scramble well as a team, I noticed. Feels like we're grinding all the time... I have two jobs, two kids, a wife, dog...etc. I don't have time to do the research on other players' handicaps, really. I bet that gets interesting, though. Yeah, it's interesting that we lost...What caught my attention is that we didn't place in the top three playing out of our heads. Go figure. The other father (25 index) has talked sh*t at my son in the past (not a classy move) and when I told my son they are paired with us my boy said, "I'm thrilled!" He wanted to beat them like a drum and he dished it out very well. The other dad even complemented his swing, which was nice. 

 

Love this game...entertaining as hell, isn't it? I always say it brings out the worst in a lot of people - making it a great way to get to know somebody. I once was paired with a couple on their first date. Told them, "genius"....

[nsxguy]

9 hours ago, BeerPerHole said:

I appreciate the analysis. FWIW...At the beginning of the season in the same format we shot even par. I'm really an 11 index, yep. But, I never broke 80 on our course playing my own ball. Also, this tournament was 9-hole. Not sure I mentioned that. I hit a lot of fairways with driver, usually 250-270 out...which is unusual for an 11 from what I understand. While my son hits a lot of fairways 280-300 out...which is stupid long for a goofy kid. We tend to scramble well as a team, I noticed. Feels like we're grinding all the time... I have two jobs, two kids, a wife, dog...etc. I don't have time to do the research on other players' handicaps, really. I bet that gets interesting, though. Yeah, it's interesting that we lost...What caught my attention is that we didn't place in the top three playing out of our heads. Go figure. The other father (25 index) has talked sh*t at my son in the past (not a classy move) and when I told my son they are paired with us my boy said, "I'm thrilled!" He wanted to beat them like a drum and he dished it out very well. The other dad even complemented his swing, which was nice. 

 

Love this game...entertaining as hell, isn't it? I always say it brings out the worst in a lot of people - making it a great way to get to know somebody. I once was paired with a couple on their first date. Told them, "genius"....

 

No, you didn't mention 9 holes - and that can make a big difference. It seems "anybody" can get hot for 9. 18 ? Different story.

 

I know I'm not the only one but I routinely have 2 9s with scores 3 or more strokes apart. This year it's been mostly 36/42 or 42/36. And I'm far from the only one.

 

Not sure it brings out the worst in most people. For the most part I think it's the opposite, if only for the fact that they know other people are watching. After all, they're (mostly) on they're honor, and relying on their opponents to be the same.

 

And even the cheaters in the bunch, and of course there are some, are usually on their best behavior so as not to draw attention.

 

You said you were new to the game. Perhaps you haven't seen this.

 

[jimbo123]

5 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

No, you didn't mention 9 holes - and that can make a big difference. It seems "anybody" can get hot for 9. 18 ? Different story.

 

I know I'm not the only one but I routinely have 2 9s with scores 3 or more strokes apart. This year it's been mostly 36/42 or 42/36. And I'm far from the only one.

This 100%.  I’m a worse handicap than the OP and have shot 1 over on my own ball on 9 holes, but 1 over for 18, not in my wildest dreams.  
 

I’m not sure that 1 over gross for 9 holes for two 11’s playing best drive should expect to win or place unless the field is really small. 

[Pete O'Tube]

On 8/16/2021 at 10:10 AM, MattyO1984 said:

It’s something which seems to have become much more common here in Scotland since the new WHS came into being. Single figure players and low single figure players in particular actively not playing in competitions that they once would because there is literally no point in teeing up if you want to go out there and win. I know myself that unless it has as a scratch section I don’t bother any more.

I know what you mean mate. I haven't won in years, finding that 42 points in a stableford isn't good enough - that's level par gross for me. I still play handicap competitions, but not to win, just to maintain my own handicap. Scratch events are a waste of space as we have 5 or 6 guys playing off plus handicaps.

[GLF4EVR]

Almost all of our local tournaments are scrambles.  Kind of like the was they are ran.  It is an 18 hole course & one nine will be how the teams handicap is derived.  You never, ever know which 9 the handicap is derived from.  It does seem to help level the playing field.

[BeerPerHole]

I have to laugh...Yeah, only 9 holes. I've had a handful of times where I've caught fire for a front or back...

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, Pete O'Tube said:

I know what you mean mate. I haven't won in years, finding that 42 points in a stableford isn't good enough - that's level par gross for me. I still play handicap competitions, but not to win, just to maintain my own handicap. Scratch events are a waste of space as we have 5 or 6 guys playing off plus handicaps.

 

Perhaps 42 points occasionally isn't good enough but if you're making 42 points that's roughly the equivalent of shooting 6 strokes better than your handicap, a relatively rare event.

 

If you lose with 42 points more than a time or 3, something may be going on at your place.

 

Either that or there are an awful lot of high handicappers in your comps. If that's the case, see some posts above. Low cappers are at a big disadvantage in a net game against a large number of high handicappers. The more of them in the comp the worse your chances.

 

The chart I posted above tells the story.

[Halebopp]

15 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

Perhaps 42 points occasionally isn't good enough but if you're making 42 points that's roughly the equivalent of shooting 6 strokes better than your handicap, a relatively rare event.

 

If you lose with 42 points more than a time or 3, something may be going on at your place.

 

Either that or there are an awful lot of high handicappers in your comps. If that's the case, see some posts above. Low cappers are at a big disadvantage in a net game against a large number of high handicappers. The more of them in the comp the worse your chances.

 

The chart I posted above tells the story.

 

 

I just looked through some of the open competitions at our club this year and 42 Stableford points or a -6 in handicapped stroke play would've won the flight 8 times, landed second 4 times and placed third once.

[Purple Toupee]

2 hours ago, Halebopp said:

 

 

I just looked through some of the open competitions at our club this year and 42 Stableford points or a -6 in handicapped stroke play would've won the flight 8 times, landed second 4 times and placed third once.

About how many players in your competitions?

[Halebopp]

11 minutes ago, Purple Toupee said:

About how many players in your competitions?

 

Around 30-50 per flight.

[Purple Toupee]

I was just curious if your numbers were close to the table above.  But I would need to know the total number of players and the handicaps each time someone beat -6.  It’s probably too much work.  I’ve just always felt that the table wasn’t really very accurate, and in my experience, people shoot lower scores more often.  But I don’t have any real numbers to back that up.

[Pete O'Tube]

On 8/19/2021 at 12:19 AM, nsxguy said:

 

Perhaps 42 points occasionally isn't good enough but if you're making 42 points that's roughly the equivalent of shooting 6 strokes better than your handicap, a relatively rare event.

 

If you lose with 42 points more than a time or 3, something may be going on at your place.

 

Either that or there are an awful lot of high handicappers in your comps. If that's the case, see some posts above. Low cappers are at a big disadvantage in a net game against a large number of high handicappers. The more of them in the comp the worse your chances.

 

The chart I posted above tells the story.

 

Looking at my current clubs last 5 men's competitions, the winning scores were 41, 45, 42, 41 and 46 points. I can occasionally shoot a gross 75 (41 points), but a 1 under 71 (45 points) or a 2 under 70 (46 points) is impossible. Nobody is cheating, they're all high handicappers having a very good day. It happens.

[StudentGolfer4]

It happens yes. Is it all that common? I think that 100% depends on the club you are at. I also know a lot of guys with vanity handicaps. The 4 who can never break 80. This happens when guys play a lot of fourball matches. O my partner is in with par? I’ll just pick up my 12 footer and mark me down for 4. Would have made it if I needed it.  
 

I don’t think it’s intentional but most people don’t post scores correctly using ESC either. That can give them a slightly inflated index too. 
 

Most clubs I am familiar with will have a net and gross division for the same tournament and you can only win 1 prizes for your performance in one category. If you’re low net and gross then you get whatever amount of cash/credit is the most. 
 

If you know someone and can verify their index is not accurate then refuse to play them at that number. Part of me also thinks that if you are so upset about getting beat that you let it ruin your day then you are betting too much money. We have all been there. It stinks playing well and getting beat by someone with an inflated index but that doesn’t take away from the good round you had. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by StudentGolfer4
The chart I posted had already been shared

[StudentGolfer4]

On 8/18/2021 at 4:07 PM, jimbo123 said:

This 100%.  I’m a worse handicap than the OP and have shot 1 over on my own ball on 9 holes, but 1 over for 18, not in my wildest dreams.  
 

I’m not sure that 1 over gross for 9 holes for two 11’s playing best drive should expect to win or place unless the field is really small. 

I agree with this. I’m not sure where the strokes fall at your course but both 11 so let’s say you’re getting 5.5 for the event. Could very well be 1 or 2 less if you’re getting 80 or 90% if your caps. 
 

1 over gross gets you to -4.5 net. That would put you in the have a chance range if it was a best ball event. Being able to take the best drive and go from there is worth an extra couple strokes. 
 

For what it’s worth, the 2 clubs I am most familiar with usually requires a winning score around -7 to -10 to have a legit shot to win. That’s 2 man best ball. 
 

Should have mentioned the -7 to 10 being for 18 holes. Not 9 

Edited August 23, 2021 by StudentGolfer4

[RmoorePE]

We just had our club championship this last weekend. We had two players score 69s, one was a 9 handicap and the other a 10. 

 

They are both blatant baggers. Their GHIN cards show scores between 78 and 88, then whenever you see a "C" (for competition) next to their score, somehow the scores are in the 70-74 ish range. Both of these guys have done this in CCs in the past, and pretty much every other tournament they play in.

 

I happened to be in our club president's group both days, and I argued that neither should be able to claim any net winnings (our events pay net and gross skins both days, as well as placing at the end), they were both going to be high in gross winnings anyway. He was like "Do you know who the head of the handicap committee is?" and it is the 9 handicap. "I would be glad to nominate you, guarantee you will win" and I realized I would much rather just b**** about sandbagging than do anything about it.

 

For the record, I shot one under my course handicap (11) each day, to take 3rd in the 1st flight (net) via tie breaker. 

 

 

[nsxguy]

On 8/30/2021 at 10:46 AM, RmoorePE said:

We just had our club championship this last weekend. We had two players score 69s, one was a 9 handicap and the other a 10. 

 

They are both blatant baggers. Their GHIN cards show scores between 78 and 88, then whenever you see a "C" (for competition) next to their score, somehow the scores are in the 70-74 ish range. Both of these guys have done this in CCs in the past, and pretty much every other tournament they play in.

 

I happened to be in our club president's group both days, and I argued that neither should be able to claim any net winnings (our events pay net and gross skins both days, as well as placing at the end), they were both going to be high in gross winnings anyway. He was like "Do you know who the head of the handicap committee is?" and it is the 9 handicap. "I would be glad to nominate you, guarantee you will win" and I realized I would much rather just b**** about sandbagging than do anything about it.

 

For the record, I shot one under my course handicap (11) each day, to take 3rd in the 1st flight (net) via tie breaker. 

 

 

 

Guess that about covers it.

 

Guilty as charged.

 

[clinkinfo]

On 8/15/2021 at 11:40 PM, BeerPerHole said:

I'm starting to wonder about this. I'm fairly new to competitions, just the last few years. I have noticed in previous club competitions guys shooting well under their handicaps (10 strokes or more)...and, often it's the same few guys. So, I thought, "OK, maybe a few baggers" and just moved on. Today my son and I played in a jr/sr. I'm an 11 index, he's right around me but I think a little lower. It was a modified scotch (pick one drive, then alternate shot). We played very well for us and came in 1 over. But, we didn't even place. 1st, 2nd and 3rd place all shot higher gross than us. The Sr of the other team paired with us is a guy I know very well. We beat them by 4 strokes but half way through the round I asked his index. "25"...I just stared at him...He's very close to me in skill. They took 2nd. I'm not ticked, but you know that feeling when who wonder if you were just duped? That's what it feels like. I'd like to play these other teams straight up for lunch or $. Those would be very good matches. I'm curious if others here with indexes like mine, almost singles, find that this is a range where you're in a pickle in competitions. Or, is the world just rife with baggers? I can't help but chuckle about this...

 

huge issue.  My home club literally sends multiple scolding/warning emails each season because of accused bagging, most accusations surrounding the events where lots of $ is changing hands. No one really cares if you’re lying to yourself, they care when you take their money!

 

 

[Mustard_Tiger]

My distrust of the handicap system is why I don't play handicapped tournaments. I refuse to give my money to cheaters.

[mark m]

On 8/16/2021 at 4:10 AM, MattyO1984 said:

It’s something which seems to have become much more common here in Scotland since the new WHS came into being. Single figure players and low single figure players in particular actively not playing in competitions that they once would because there is literally no point in teeing up if you want to go out there and win. I know myself that unless it has as a scratch section I don’t bother any more.

Hi Matty,

 

I noticed this post back in August. Frankly, I found it disheartening, but I wasn’t surprised either. I was wondering if you could tell us more? I believe it’s now been 1 year since the WHS implementation in the UK?

 

Any good to it? (The iGolf app, or whatever). And of course the bad and the ugly as well.

 

Really curious about larger field events at the club level, and open tournaments. I realize from old threads here that the Fourball comps had problems prior to WHS.

 

Thanks 

 

Edit: others from outside North America are encouraged to respond as well.

Edited November 4, 2021 by mark m

[dbleag]

On 8/30/2021 at 10:46 AM, RmoorePE said:

We just had our club championship this last weekend. We had two players score 69s, one was a 9 handicap and the other a 10. 

 

They are both blatant baggers. Their GHIN cards show scores between 78 and 88, then whenever you see a "C" (for competition) next to their score, somehow the scores are in the 70-74 ish range. Both of these guys have done this in CCs in the past, and pretty much every other tournament they play in.

Baggers are cheaters. 

 

Stop making it sound cute or flattering by calling them baggers.

 

That's an insult to Bagger Vance 😄

 

[Halebopp]

14 hours ago, mark m said:

Hi Matty,

 

I noticed this post back in August. Frankly, I found it disheartening, but I wasn’t surprised either. I was wondering if you could tell us more? I believe it’s now been 1 year since the WHS implementation in the UK?

 

Any good to it? (The iGolf app, or whatever). And of course the bad and the ugly as well.

 

Really curious about larger field events at the club level, and open tournaments. I realize from old threads here that the Fourball comps had problems prior to WHS.

 

Thanks 

 

Edit: others from outside North America are encouraged to respond as well.

 

As in did the switch to the WHS affect participation in competitions? No, not one bit and I can't see why it would have.