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First Time on the Range in Five-Plus Years.


zcampb1

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After some time away from the course, over five years at least, I was invited to play in a charity scramble. I had a blast golfing with my buddy and forgot how much joy this game brings me. Looking back, I can't think of why I stopped playing so suddenly. Maybe lack of time after transitioning from college. 

 

So I went out to my local driving range in Conroe, Texas, and took a small bucket of full 6-iron swings yesterday. The video posted is one of my solid shots, looped over four times at various speeds. Any insight is appreciated. I'm going to make a point to upload my swing progress as I get back into this. I read Ben Hogan's book back in the day, and that is how I have learned the swing. 

 

 

 

Yesterday, I found myself either fading or just a straight pull for the majority of the bucket. To aid in my alignment, I made a conscious effort to trace the golf ball over a spot about six inches in front of me; this spot I chose was on the target line. After finding that line between the two points, I set my club behind the ball and finally set up my body. I found that process to help quite a bit.

 

Thanks in advance for any input.

Edited by zcampb1
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Zac

View my swing progress here.

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All your fades and pulls come from the same over the top move you have at the start of your downswing.  Which is caused by your shallow backswing. 
 

When your shaft is parallel with the ground, the club head is too far behind you. At this point the shaft should be aligned with your target line. 
 

When your left arm is parallel with the ground try to get your shaft more vertical, with the but of the club pointing down closer to your toe line. 
 

This will help get you in a better position at the top and more likely to shallow the club coming down. 
 

Now you swing back shallow and your initial move down is steep. 
 

Heres a couple of vids to watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeTLmGefShU

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMZWFpMCAHw

Edited by BrianMcG
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1 hour ago, BrianMcG said:

All your fades and pulls come from the same over the top move you have at the start of your downswing.  Which is caused by your shallow backswing. 
 

When your shaft is parallel with the ground, the club head is too far behind you. At this point the shaft should be aligned with your target line. 
 

When your left arm is parallel with the ground try to get your shaft more vertical, with the but of the club pointing down closer to your toe line. 
 

This will help get you in a better position at the top and more likely to shallow the club coming down. 
 

Now you swing back shallow and your initial move down is steep. 
 

Heres a couple of vids to watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeTLmGefShU

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMZWFpMCAHw

 

This is exactly what I was seeing as well.

 

The moment I saw your initial move off the ball, I assumed I was in for a bit of goat-humping on the way down - but I was disappointed. Then you described your shot pattern and it all made sense.

 

With that over the top move, you are going to struggle with losing it to the right and pulls.

 

As people try to solve ball flight issues on their own, especially athletic and coordinated folks, they tend towards goat-humping/early extension as a compensation. That leads to lots and lots of hooking.

 

So, save yourself this journey by working on that backswing now. Read the "Arm-Swing Illusion" tread posted in the Instruction sub-forum. Interesting and illuminating reading.

 

Overall, you've got a great foundation to build from. Lots of good things going on. Arm yourself with knowledge and best of luck to you!

 

 

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1 hour ago, zcampb1 said:

I sincerely appreciate the feedback and resources you two have provided. I'll take this information and run with it in mind during my next session at the range. 

 

Updates to come. 

Here’s another good video of a lesson with the same issue. It has a really good drill you can do.

 

 

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Got out to the range last night before a storm came in. 
 

Ball striking was better. Certainly got more of that "pure" feeling off the face compared to the last session. My thought was to try to come back steep and back down to the ball shallow. 
 

My misses were fat and a push this time around. I still think I'm too steep coming into the ball, and maybe I'm standing too close?

Zac

View my swing progress here.

Geaux Tigers!

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Your swing looks A LOT like mine did till I started the overhaul of my takeaway to fix exactly what you're experiencing.

 

It finally clicked with Adam Porzak's setup help and getting to "checkpoint one" on the takeaway. Total gamechanger for me. 

 

Some good stuff here:

 

Edited by aenemated
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22 minutes ago, aenemated said:

Your swing looks A LOT like mine did till I started the overhaul of my takeaway to fix exactly what you're experiencing.

 

It finally clicked with Adam Porzak's setup help and getting to "checkpoint one" on the takeaway. Total gamechanger for me. 

 

Some good stuff here:

 


Very similar to mine as well. 

@zcampb1 This is an important feel vs. real moment. If "My thought was to try to come back steep and back down to the ball shallow" was your approach then it is important to check in with what is actually happening:

1020149758_ScreenShot2021-08-26at10_11_50AM.png.af940c48ef85ebcb0da22fcb65a3be90.png

You're still extremely flat going back, which means you're likely going to have to exaggerate your takeaway feeling a lot more to get away from this, especially if this felt steep at all to you. 

1168784866_ScreenShot2021-08-26at10_11_59AM.png.53798d059be0d3ab8b9757265cd4a945.png

This is your downswing vs. Rory's backswing, basically the same plane. Rory is steep going back, you're steep coming down, so the shallow to steep problem is still very much in play here and explains the fat/push misses. 

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Wow, talk about dedication!!

Swing looks like it's coming along nicely!

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Today I worked on my grip and attempted to keep my left arm close to my chest during the backswing. Working to create a steeper backswing is proving a challenge for me. What do you see?

 

Swing Recap
Shot 1 - Fat, Pull, 20 yards left
Shot 2 - Thin, Fade, 30 yards right
Shot 3 - Solid, Slight Pull,  5 yards left
Shot 4 - Fat, Pull, 30 yards left
Shot 5 - Slight Fat, Pull, 30 yards left
Shot 6 - Solid, Fade, 5 yards right
Shot 7 - Solid, Fade, 30 yards right
Shot 8 - Topped it.
Shot 9 - Solid, Fade, 15 yards right
Shot 10 - Solid, Slight Draw, On Target
Shot 11 - Solid, Fade, 20 yards right

Zac

View my swing progress here.

Geaux Tigers!

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Vascilating between thin/fat and left/right is the classic steep problem, which is still the same. You're going to have to find a way to force yourself out of the inside shallow takeaway as that hasn't changed. @BraxtonFullerton recommended the 45* alignment stick behind you to force your path out in another thread and I think that would be good here as well. 

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Thanks @Valtiel. That's what I'll work on tomorrow at the range. Appreciate you keeping up with my posts.

 

I guess me hitting fungo every week to my kids (I'm a baseball coach) doesn't help this attempt to get my golf swing back 😂

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Zac

View my swing progress here.

Geaux Tigers!

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5 hours ago, zcampb1 said:

Thanks @Valtiel. That's what I'll work on tomorrow at the range. Appreciate you keeping up with my posts.

 

I guess me hitting fungo every week to my kids (I'm a baseball coach) doesn't help this attempt to get my golf swing back 😂


Hah yeah, I can see that creating some confusing muscle memory. 

You have great rhythm/tempo and athletic sequencing, but your quick and deliberate transition move is one of those things that needs the right positions, because otherwise you won't have enough time to consistently deliver the club. Nothing wrong with your transition btw, you just move quickly and generate what looks like a good amount of speed in a small window, which is great for efficiency.

To work backwards from your unpredictable contact issues, you need to first establish a consistent low point (the bottom of your swing arc), which you're currently struggling with. For that to happen, the club has to be coming into the ball on a consistent path and from a consistent angle. A downswing club path that is too steep has these angles changing too rapidly for them to be consistent swing after swing, creating your fat/thin two way misses as you struggle to compensate. Shallowing/reducing the severity of these two angles then is required to solve this, so then we have to look at the downswing you have and the backswing position that sets it up. Your inside/flat backswing results in the club being in a position that conflicts with the goals above. You CAN come back down "shallow" from this position, but it works against the natural action/reaction way your body wants to move (flat and inside going back wants to swap to steep and outside coming down), and even if you did manage to stay shallow coming down, you'd be coming from the inside more than is likely ideal. Your low point control would improve, but the overly inside path means you'd still be timing/managing last minute face control since a square face would = a block to the right.

This is why the goal is to keep your hands and the club high enough going back to allow them to get the proper amount of "low" coming down. These are the basic principles of a "two plane" swing, which most people will favor. 

Apologies if you already understood this, I just find that the lack of ability to effect change when the problem has been identified can sometimes be because there is a lack of understanding as to the "why?" and how it all connects.

Here is that alignment stick drill btw, which also conveniently shows the problem you're seeking to fix on the left:

candace-schepperle-alignment-sticks_t640.jpg.a6bda20da371c14516700aa3148d436e.jpg

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Thanks. My idea with the alignment stick was to think of that yellow line "extending as a pane of glass" as Mr. Hogan said. I'm simply trying to get close it, rubbing it on the backswing and not "breaking the glass". I know I could be a lot closer to that imaginary pane of glass in this swing for sure. 

 

That may not be the technical cue some what, but for me, yesterday I actually started drawing the ball and the majority of my bucket were solidly struck. I'm carrying my 6 Iron 190 yards. I think that's only going to go up once this becomes more consistent. 

Edited by zcampb1

Zac

View my swing progress here.

Geaux Tigers!

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43 minutes ago, zcampb1 said:

Thanks. My idea with the alignment stick was to think of that yellow line "extending as a pane of glass" as Mr. Hogan said. I'm simply trying to get close it, rubbing it on the backswing and not "breaking the glass". I know I could be a lot closer to that imaginary pane of glass in this swing for sure. 

 

That may not be the technical cue some what, but for me, yesterday I actually started drawing the ball and the majority of my bucket were solidly struck. I'm carrying my 6 Iron 190 yards. I think that's only going to go up once this becomes more consistent. 

Nice. I don't carry my 6 iron anywhere near as far as you but I did share the same inside flat backswing tendency as you before fixing it. I did the same drill but I found that unless the club smacked the stick on the way back to let me know I was too inside it didn't help. 

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Except you're not, you're still sucked way inside on your takeaway:

image.png.7dab1a9b7341dea136e4db60534a0ee6.png

 

Please work on the drill, as intended, with the stick guiding your hands above it, at a 45* angle. This will help you stop the issue.

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

Spending more time in front of a mirror before I even think about going out to hit balls. My backswing feels steeper now but when I make my move the ball I feel like my chest goes first and I'm cutting across the ball on most shots. Am I delusional?

Zac

View my swing progress here.

Geaux Tigers!

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You're MUCH better on the way back:

image.png.175b94a824fcd7b04211036f4b7db2d5.png

 

Compared to where you were before:

image.png.7dab1a9b7341dea136e4db60534a0ee6.png

 

Now here's the last step you need to change...

Here you are at a full length swing:
image.png.185ea0cc687eeab4e32de6421d9e38d4.png

 

Except you keep going...

 

image.png.e17f0d32e0c8d328e6d9abf335c629f3.png

 

Now that you've gone too far, you begin your squat but you never shallow the club:

image.png.8375b28577e05b0309bc05510ad875cf.png

 

Compare that position to say, Jordan: (panels are in reverse order for some reason)

image.png.b8efada4016e43fcd9d6337c890a445d.png

You want that shaft to mimic the pathing of your trail arm.

 

Now here you are at impact:

image.png.8937c368f701a2b4e09b7282ced9a62d.png

 

Look at your first position vs impact position and you'll see you're losing hip depth (CC: @Valtiel). You're standing up because instead of shallowing the club and rotating through, you're steep and need to find another way to get the club head to impact. Take a look at all 3 of those panels of Jordan in comparison, his hips are wide open the whole way to allow that club to get low and give him plenty of time to square the face.

So two things to really take away here:

  1. Stop over-swinging, think 3/4 swing so you can properly initiate the downswing. Your first downswing move needs to be to get your hands to drop and your wrist to supinate to allow the shaft to shallow out. Again, here's Jordan to demonstrate:

    image.png.e204b02c4e43fefe29dfe7771bcc4d33.pngimage.png.df1bca07964f4ddfa525723dcaa2405c.png
     
  2. Work on getting your front hip to open and keep space, this will be easier to do once you have a better hang of the first part.

 

You're close to having the final pieces together for a very good swing.

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Agreed with Braxton that you're in a much better position going back now, definitely within the realm of something would be considered "fixed". You do appear to be standing pretty close to the ball though? You have the same thing I have going on right now in that you've fixed the first bit (inside takeaway) but still need to put together the second (properly slotting into a more correct downswing plane). You were "shallow to steep" and now you're "steep to steep", which is similar to me currently. I agree with Braxton's advice, and I would add giving yourself a little more room at address to the mix by nudging away from the ball slightly to see if that helps. 

Edited by Valtiel
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Thanks gents. I'll take this to the range tomorrow and report back.

 

I do find myself looking at the ball and wondering if I'm too close a lot. When I second guess myself I'll back away from the shot, walk around a bit and then try again. Would it be detrimental if I just started with the ball on the toe of the club, pre swing? Maybe that's too much as @Valtiel may indicate to try...? I do not have fitted clubs so when I nudge away, naturally the toe of the club flairs up a bit and I start thinking "Oh no, keep the club flat to the ground." Again, another moment I catch myself and walk away to regroup.

 

Also, @BraxtonFullerton are you referring to the lead wrist turning over in supination? Or do you mean Jordan is actually taking his trail hand into supination to allow the shaft to shallow out?

1 hour ago, BraxtonFullerton said:

 

  1. Stop over-swinging, think 3/4 swing so you can properly initiate the downswing. Your first downswing move needs to be to get your hands to drop and your wrist to supinate to allow the shaft to shallow out. Again, here's Jordan to demonstrate:

    image.png.e204b02c4e43fefe29dfe7771bcc4d33.pngimage.png.df1bca07964f4ddfa525723dcaa2405c.png

 

I ask because I see videos like this:

 

 

 

Again, I appreciate everyone's thoughts and time they take to discuss the swing with me.

Zac

View my swing progress here.

Geaux Tigers!

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Yes, you see a lot of pros pre-load their wrist supination so there's not much they actually need to do during the swing other than let it fly. It's why guys like Jordan, Rahm, DJ look the way they do at the top.

 

I feel that will take help you shallow out and give yourself a bigger "good contact" window.

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10-3-21.jpg.7fee60d5f4e6750c132ec653794411be.jpg

 

Did not make it to the range but made a little swing spot out on the back deck. 

 

I think hitting on the back deck may be beneficial because I'm subconsciously worried about hitting my celling (no chance I would anyway) so I'm finding that I'm not overswinging. Also, my window shows my reflection so that's a nice mirror behind me. 

 

This week I'll dive deeper into the first move to the ball from YouTube. I saw this post from georgegankasgolf on Instagram where he had a dude pull a band low on his back. Thoughts?

 

band_drill.jpg.a030d980e777a24512fb863ac35368d9.jpg

Zac

View my swing progress here.

Geaux Tigers!

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It's a means to the ends you're looking for.

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      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

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