iso advice for skilled 9-yr-old player who struggles in tournaments

[OnTheDanceFloor]

My 9-year-old daughter is a good golfer, who went she is relaxed, shoots somewhere between par and bogey golf. She competes in junior tournaments and does well most of the time, but she is overly focused on her score -- and on the scores of other players -- and this contributes to anxiety, and reduces her level of focus. Her scores sometimes suffer. I've tried to find ways to relax her; I've encouraged her to focus on each swing, and to "stay in the moment", and to care less about winning and to simply try to execute each stroke as well as possible. But my words have had no impact. 

 

Any advice about how to help my daughter remain calm and relaxed during tournaments? Is this aspect of the game coachable?

[ChipNRun]

For one thing, keep your mouth shut.

 

As she plays more, she will get accustomed to ebb and flow of tournaments.

 

[Mr. Grumpy]

2 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

For one thing, keep your mouth shut.

 

As she plays more, she will get accustomed to ebb and flow of tournaments.

 

Exactly - there is no easy solution to your question, often it solves itself via experience/growth. The worst thing you can do is fill her head with multitudes of what you think she should do. 

[OnTheDanceFloor]

4 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

For one thing, keep your mouth shut.

 

As she plays more, she will get accustomed to ebb and flow of tournaments.

 

What about off the course, as opposed to during a tournament? In addition to practicing her swing, is there a way for a young child to practice their mental game? Or is 9 years old too young to work on the mental aspect of the game?

[goaliedad30]

23 minutes ago, OnTheDanceFloor said:

What about off the course, as opposed to during a tournament? In addition to practicing her swing, is there a way for a young child to practice their mental game? Or is 9 years old too young to work on the mental aspect of the game?

One thing you can do is create practice "games" that are scored. Have a 9-hole putting round on the practice green. At the short game area, put 9 balls in different lies, chip/pitch them, putt them out, and score it. In a bunker, play "target" ... 1 point for out and on the green, 2 points inside 15 feet, 4 points inside 5 feet. Lots of ways to be creative with this.

 

You can create little scorecards for this, and even track "personal bests". It gets her used to keeping score for an "event", and over time, will likely take some of the pressure off of the score on the golf course.

[ChipNRun]

27 minutes ago, OnTheDanceFloor said:

young child to practice their mental game?

 

One deficit a 9-year-old has is attention-span. Attention span increases as children grow older. Also, some interests increase while other fade.

 

Let's cut to the chase: If your child got a college soccer scholarship rather than a golf scholarship, would you be upset?

 

I have experience the other way. I quit baseball after my sixth-grade summer. My dad had been my coach for five years. I opted to switch to caddying and golf, as I wasn't much good at baseball. The ended up a sore spot between my dad and me until he died some 40 years later.

 

Just trying to save you potential pain!!!

 

 

[John Wenger]

I follow this guy on Instagram and love his teaching methods. He specializes in youth golf. There’s definitely ways to train the mental game at a young age. Wish I would have worked on it more.

 

https://linktr.ee/iainhighfield

[Gohigh]

Every child is different. There are no universal answer as to how to be the best father and coach at the same time. Everyone seems to know or understand the needs of every child on this earth, but the bottom line is you wont find any valuable advice here, including mine.

 

I can only share my experience and find comfort in knowing that just about every golfer, regardless of age/gender/experience/skill, experiences what your daughter is going through.

 

And its not just GOLF problem... its a life problem.

 

Whether its trying to bring home As instead of Cs in school...

 

Or validating our career through job titles and how much money you make...

 

Its an ongoing cycle of life that I find myself trapped in, along with just about everyone else in this world, albeit some more than others.

 

As long as golf has a scorecard, and as long as holes has a PAR, why is it unnatural for any golfer to be concerned, once again some more than others, about his/her score and how they measure up against others in the field?

 

If you are concerned that its having a negative impact on her life... Then maybe stepping away from competitions to play more "free" golf, where she wont feel so overwhelmed, might be the best solution, at least until she can handle the emotions that come with both successes and failures in this crazy game--where rule books are longer than her 9 year old level school books.

 

Also, being a coach and dad at the same time is no easy task... Being just DAD is an impossible task to be good at, let alone both. My advice as a parent/coach of two kids, is that unless ONE of those is helping you to become better at the OTHER, dont try to juggle both. Seems like you've done a good job at being both so far, but simply asking her how you can be the best help to her needs will go a long ways, much more than any two line advice anyone can give you here.

[tiger1873]

My advice is to not worry that much about it. It's something they get better with playing more tournaments and with age.   You can try to get them to focus more but you are better off making sure golf is fun at that age.

 

 

The best thing you can do is not focus on score right now. Do not add up her score until she is done. This means you also should have no clue what here actual score is until the end of the round..  Your far better off just counting the hole you're on and move on.  If you counting and adding up the score during a round kids pick up on that. 

 

The best part is you can go back and focus on holes they got par or birdie on and build there game from there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by tiger1873

[OnTheDanceFloor]

I agree with everything you wrote above, but the problem is that my daughter is the one that is counting the score on every hole, as opposed to me. In fact, if she is playing against a top player, she will also track her opponent's strokes. If she falls behind, this leads to a negative feedback look in which causes her emotional state to gradually deteriorate.  I wish there were some magic words I could whisper to her on the course (I'm her caddy) to get her mind back on the game, and to get her to ignore the score, but I've found nothing that works. I've repeatedly tried to get her to focus not on winning tournaments, but simply on relaxing and enjoying herself. So far, I haven't succeeded. Should I simply say nothing and watch her self-destruct on the course? Unsure what the best course of action is. I realize every player is different and every human is different, so there is no one-size-fits-all solution.

[tiger1873]

2 hours ago, OnTheDanceFloor said:

I agree with everything you wrote above, but the problem is that my daughter is the one that is counting the score on every hole, as opposed to me. In fact, if she is playing against a top player, she will also track her opponent's strokes. If she falls behind, this leads to a negative feedback look in which causes her emotional state to gradually deteriorate.  I wish there were some magic words I could whisper to her on the course (I'm her caddy) to get her mind back on the game, and to get her to ignore the score, but I've found nothing that works. I've repeatedly tried to get her to focus not on winning tournaments, but simply on relaxing and enjoying herself. So far, I haven't succeeded. Should I simply say nothing and watch her self-destruct on the course? Unsure what the best course of action is. I realize every player is different and every human is different, so there is no one-size-fits-all solution.

 

You have to tell her to only worry about par or better on each hole start. Focus on her good holes and bad holes only.  You may want to set goals for her as well before every tournament and go over them after you are done.  It can really be anything but it helps to focus on say no triples a round or par half the holes and so on.  

 

It might take a few tournaments but focusing on the positive holes and talking about what went wrong and having say ice cream or a dinner at their favorite restaurant after the round is perfect way to have both good memories and focusing them on improving their golf. 

 

 

Also unless you get a medal at the end do not wait around there is no reason to hang around if you didn't win.  You need to make sure she is playing for her own reasons the medal is a result of hard work not because someone beat you.

 

We all been there so don't think you are alone on this.

Edited August 23, 2021 by tiger1873

[Abh159]

13 hours ago, OnTheDanceFloor said:

What about off the course, as opposed to during a tournament? In addition to practicing her swing, is there a way for a young child to practice their mental game? Or is 9 years old too young to work on the mental aspect of the game?

 

Not too much you can do at 9 years old besides letting her figure things out on her own. I'm also not sure that trying to do any sort of mental training / strengthening exercises are a good idea. I mean she is only 9 YEARS OLD after all. For all you know she may decide tomorrow that she no longer likes golf and wants to start playing tennis instead...

 

FWIW your daughter's attitude isn't unique. Most young kids too get caught up with how their playing partners are doing instead of focusing on their own game and what they can control. It's something that should improve over time especially as she plays more tournaments. 

[kekoa]

I'd be interested to hear if your daughter's issue persists in 2 years when she is 11.   I think its a maturity thing, but some kids just can't get past a bad hole, bad shot, or how they are stacking up against others.   It's tough.

 

My son at 11 still does this.  Sometimes he will do everything he can to beat an older/better kid.  Other times, he will throw in the towel and flop.   We are not yet at the point of seeking a mental coach, but will definitely look into it in a few years.

 

On a side note, I was watching this Thai kid play who won IMG in the 11-12's.  His demeanor was amazing.   Par-Bogey-Birdie, whatever he made there was basically no emotion.  Not sure that is good either, but kid was super composed throughout the entire round.   Played like he didn't have a care in the world and his scores showed it.

 

 

[MB19]

38 minutes ago, kekoa said:

I'd be interested to hear if your daughter's issue persists in 2 years when she is 11.   I think its a maturity thing, but some kids just can't get past a bad hole, bad shot, or how they are stacking up against others.   It's tough.

 

My son at 11 still does this.  Sometimes he will do everything he can to beat an older/better kid.  Other times, he will throw in the towel and flop.   We are not yet at the point of seeking a mental coach, but will definitely look into it in a few years.

 

On a side note, I was watching this Thai kid play who won IMG in the 11-12's.  His demeanor was amazing.   Par-Bogey-Birdie, whatever he made there was basically no emotion.  Not sure that is good either, but kid was super composed throughout the entire round.   Played like he didn't have a care in the world and his scores showed it.

 

 

We play against a just-turned-eight-year-old who is exactly like this.  Cold Blooded like Rick James!

 

Kid knocks down a chip from 30'--no reaction.  Kid lips his 3rd 10' putt of the day--no reaction.  

[tiger1873]

1 hour ago, kekoa said:

 

 

On a side note, I was watching this Thai kid play who won IMG in the 11-12's.  His demeanor was amazing.   Par-Bogey-Birdie, whatever he made there was basically no emotion.  Not sure that is good either, but kid was super composed throughout the entire round.   Played like he didn't have a care in the world and his scores showed it.

 

 

 

 

What are the chances the parents are the type that yell and scream at the kid in parking lot or behind closed doors.   It's not natural for a kid to be stone cold with no emotion.

 

When my kids started playing golf I seen this all too frequently it's not what I call a good upbringing for a kid.

 

Some kids may be better at controlling emotions but the kids that usually win big events at young ages almost in my opinion look like they been abused.  If you want your kid to perform do not abuse them let them be kids and grow out of it.

Edited August 23, 2021 by tiger1873

[Medson]

5 hours ago, OnTheDanceFloor said:

I agree with everything you wrote above, but the problem is that my daughter is the one that is counting the score on every hole, as opposed to me. In fact, if she is playing against a top player, she will also track her opponent's strokes. If she falls behind, this leads to a negative feedback look in which causes her emotional state to gradually deteriorate.  I wish there were some magic words I could whisper to her on the course (I'm her caddy) to get her mind back on the game, and to get her to ignore the score, but I've found nothing that works. I've repeatedly tried to get her to focus not on winning tournaments, but simply on relaxing and enjoying herself. So far, I haven't succeeded. Should I simply say nothing and watch her self-destruct on the course? Unsure what the best course of action is. I realize every player is different and every human is different, so there is no one-size-fits-all solution.

 

I have a daughter who is about the same age. I have seen everything you described in my daughter and most of players in her age group.

 

I do think there are things you and she can do. The end goal isn't to play better golf at 9 yo, and it should be helping her develop and expand her tools in her toolbox so that she (hopefully) will know what to do when she plays in bigger and more elite junior tournaments down the road. 

 

A few things we are doing (with mixed success):

 

- focus on process, not scores. (at least, we try to) We create process goals before each tournament, e.g. "do pre-shot routine before tee shot". If she does the pre-shot routine, she gets a point. It is irrelevant if the tee shot ends up in the fairway or 15 yards to the left. If she stays focused, she should score nearly 100% in her process goal. And that is the criteria for success. Whether she shoots -2 or +2 is irrelevant. 

 

- create "distraction". For 9-hole golf, it usually takes 2 hours. If you average 40 strokes, it should take less than 30 minutes of play time. I used to tell my daughter that she needs to be focused for the entire tournament. Now, I purposely try to create distraction especially after a bad shot or hole, e.g. we will talk about where she wants to get ice cream. Just take her mind off golf for a bit. 

 

 

[kekoa]

2 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

What are the chances the parents are the type that yell and scream at the kid in parking lot or behind closed doors.   It's not natural for a kid to be stone cold with no emotion.

 

When my kids started playing golf I seen this all too frequently it's not what I call a good upbringing for a kid.

 

Some kids may be better at controlling emotions but the kids that usually win big events at young ages almost in my opinion look like they been abused.  If you want your kid to perform do not abuse them let them be kids and grow out of it.

Maybe they do yell and scream at the kid behind closed doors.  I have no idea and at that point its none of my business.   In this case, the kid is bigger than both his parents.  lol!!

[OnTheDanceFloor]

Thanks for all of the feedback. Some good advice and suggestions. I think for this upcoming fall season, we will enter in only a couple tournaments. This summer was too intense, with tournaments almost every weekend, which created an intense desire in my daughter to accumulate the most season points and finish in first. If we only play 2 tournaments out of the fall season (I think 6 or 7 tournaments in total), winning season points will be impossible, and that will eliminate one source of pressure. And we will play more rounds for fun this fall, just her and me, like we did a year ago. 

[tiger1873]

1 hour ago, kekoa said:

Maybe they do yell and scream at the kid behind closed doors.  I have no idea and at that point its none of my business.   In this case, the kid is bigger than both his parents.  lol!!

I heard at IMG some kids use a different calendar then our kids and have longer years then we do. LoL

[RobS]

I watched a lot of the US Girls Junior Am this year.  I was surprised at how composed the top players were, even the younger 14 and 15 year olds.  If you have an opportunity to have your daughter watch someone like Rose Zhang in person or youtube, it may make an impression.  It's one thing to hear it from Dad and another thing to see it in action from the top am's in the world.  It's like when I tell my son he needs to be more consistent with his pre-shot routine vs my son watching Tiger Woods make the same pre-shot routine on every shot.

 

More importantly, the successful kids will figure a lot of it out on their own as they grow.  Kids need to make mistakes, learn and take ownership of their successes and failures.  It's hard to watch as a parent but when kids learn to problem solve, largely on their own, it's a significant long lasting benefit.

[Bizzle80]

It is really amazing how different a player reacts in tournament golf and playing around golf. My daughter gets down on herself if she has a bad hole and she's only 8. Not any pressure from me as I am all 100% good vibes and positivity out there. I know how hard this game is and already super impressed my 8yo is this good! 

 

Love the advice to have them watch some players like Rose Zhang that are stone cold.

[MattM97]

I'm not a parent but I was a kid who played high level sports and one thing that was always on my mind is what if I disappoint my parents or coaches, it would sometimes eat me up and I was much worse. I think what you should do is tell your daughter that no matter how she performs at tournaments that you're still proud of her, whether she wins or comes in last as long as she had fun and is showing improvement that's all you can ask for.

 

I'm also sure in time as she matures her mentality can change but it sounds like she's worried too much about performances. But we know how hard golf is and just a small bounce we can't control can change everything.

[DevilDog]

On 8/22/2021 at 7:52 PM, OnTheDanceFloor said:

My 9-year-old daughter is a good golfer, who went she is relaxed, shoots somewhere between par and bogey golf. She competes in junior tournaments and does well most of the time, but she is overly focused on her score -- and on the scores of other players -- and this contributes to anxiety, and reduces her level of focus. Her scores sometimes suffer. I've tried to find ways to relax her; I've encouraged her to focus on each swing, and to "stay in the moment", and to care less about winning and to simply try to execute each stroke as well as possible. But my words have had no impact. 

 

Any advice about how to help my daughter remain calm and relaxed during tournaments? Is this aspect of the game coachable?

 

My son went through this.  What helped was his instructor taking him out on the course for playing lessons.  Got him to be less outcome oriented, which is score focus, etc, to process oriented.  Parents have a hard time doing this for their child but a third party can change the child's thinking much easier.  

[Jwb68]

I have an 11 yo son that is probably similar to your daughter.  At this point he has played more years of golf than he hasn't.  Here are my observations.

 

1.  I am type A, extremely competitive and a bit of a large personality.   When he gets wrapped around the axel it is usually my fault.  Since I have stopped commenting on his shots or trying to "help" him his attitude is better and he has played better.  On the course I am his caddy.  I treat him like my boss.  If I told my boss what to do all the time and what to do to correct her perceived flaws  my boss would kick me to the curb.  I remind him to check his grip, watch his alignment and turn through the shot.  We discuss his reads on the green and if there is a disagreement about the line I always defer to him.  If we disagree on clubs and I am right I don't say see, I told you it was a 6 iron.  I will suggest it again for the same distance and remind him that last time the shot didn't reach the green.  If he says he knows its the right club because he hit it thin or fat I let him do his thing.  Does it cost him strokes?  Yes.  His strokes.  Not mine.  He will eventually pull a 6.

2.  He is constantly looking at me for approval.  All kids do this and if you want to see it in action, watch the Short Game shows and see those kids miss a shot and look at a parent for a reaction.  Be a stone.  Compliment them for a good routine, effort, attitude, decision, whatever, but I try to stay away from complimenting a shot or telling him he had a bad shot and how to fix it.  Unless he asks.  Its tough but the attitude improves dramatically.

3.  The older he gets the better he controls his emotions.

4.  Stone cold is nice but not realistic for a kid without a level of outside influence I am just not willing to exert.  

5. Watch you expressions and body language.  My guy can read me like a book.

6.  Get her another caddy!  lol  I laugh about this but when my wife caddies for him he is much looser.  He doesn't like her though because she  short clubs him and isn't as good on the greens.

7. Pull closer to her on bad holes or when she starts to have a bad attitude.  I literally find some way to get a hand on him usually a hand on his shoulder or an arm around him. Your still the parent and you never want them to think you are pulling away from them in a time of perceived need.   It sounds all psychology but I have found it to work. (I actually stole that from a child psych friend of mine)

7.  Distract her from the green to the tee.  Tell a joke, look at flowers, the turtles in the water hazard anything to get their mind off the hole just played.   I reset him on the next tee usually by saying some thing like "alright, its almost time for you to tee off what are you going to do (shot, where will you hit it etc.) on this hole?

8.  We take a day a week and ignore golf.  Started this a month ago and seems to work.  We don't discuss it.  We don't play it.  We don't watch it on you tube or TV.  We got together and picked a day. Gives him a break.

.

 

Not only has his attitude improved but our already great relationship has improved as well.

 

I am inconsistent with all the above but try my best.  Your mileage may vary and I am probably the worst golf parent ever but just sharing what I have seen and done.  Good luck!

[phillyspecial]

On 9/3/2021 at 9:20 AM, Jwb68 said:

I have an 11 yo son that is probably similar to your daughter.  At this point he has played more years of golf than he hasn't.  Here are my observations.

 

1.  I am type A, extremely competitive and a bit of a large personality.   When he gets wrapped around the axel it is usually my fault.  Since I have stopped commenting on his shots or trying to "help" him his attitude is better and he has played better.  On the course I am his caddy.  I treat him like my boss.  If I told my boss what to do all the time and what to do to correct her perceived flaws  my boss would kick me to the curb.  I remind him to check his grip, watch his alignment and turn through the shot.  We discuss his reads on the green and if there is a disagreement about the line I always defer to him.  If we disagree on clubs and I am right I don't say see, I told you it was a 6 iron.  I will suggest it again for the same distance and remind him that last time the shot didn't reach the green.  If he says he knows its the right club because he hit it thin or fat I let him do his thing.  Does it cost him strokes?  Yes.  His strokes.  Not mine.  He will eventually pull a 6.

2.  He is constantly looking at me for approval.  All kids do this and if you want to see it in action, watch the Short Game shows and see those kids miss a shot and look at a parent for a reaction.  Be a stone.  Compliment them for a good routine, effort, attitude, decision, whatever, but I try to stay away from complimenting a shot or telling him he had a bad shot and how to fix it.  Unless he asks.  Its tough but the attitude improves dramatically.

3.  The older he gets the better he controls his emotions.

4.  Stone cold is nice but not realistic for a kid without a level of outside influence I am just not willing to exert.  

5. Watch you expressions and body language.  My guy can read me like a book.

6.  Get her another caddy!  lol  I laugh about this but when my wife caddies for him he is much looser.  He doesn't like her though because she  short clubs him and isn't as good on the greens.

7. Pull closer to her on bad holes or when she starts to have a bad attitude.  I literally find some way to get a hand on him usually a hand on his shoulder or an arm around him. Your still the parent and you never want them to think you are pulling away from them in a time of perceived need.   It sounds all psychology but I have found it to work. (I actually stole that from a child psych friend of mine)

7.  Distract her from the green to the tee.  Tell a joke, look at flowers, the turtles in the water hazard anything to get their mind off the hole just played.   I reset him on the next tee usually by saying some thing like "alright, its almost time for you to tee off what are you going to do (shot, where will you hit it etc.) on this hole?

8.  We take a day a week and ignore golf.  Started this a month ago and seems to work.  We don't discuss it.  We don't play it.  We don't watch it on you tube or TV.  We got together and picked a day. Gives him a break.

.

 

Not only has his attitude improved but our already great relationship has improved as well.

 

I am inconsistent with all the above but try my best.  Your mileage may vary and I am probably the worst golf parent ever but just sharing what I have seen and done.  Good luck!

This is great advice, with the key part being admitting to inconsistency but we are all trying our best out there.  Its a growth process as a parent as well as for the player.  Unlike most other sports, there is no coach out there, its just you (early ages) and its HARD given the nature of golf.  As much as we tell our kids to get 1% better every day, commit to a process etc, we need to be doing the same in our roles.  Reps and experience are the key to getting better.  

 

 

 

 

[Bizzle80]

Some good advice above. Realizing we need to get better as parents and caddies is a big one.

 

One thing that we started a few weeks ago and has really helped us as a team...My daughter (8) and I started to recap after every round - tournament and practice. Always start off with what SHE thinks she did well first...then what she needs to work on. I will typically just support and maybe gently add some things. I always follow that up with what I can work on and what she thinks worked for her in my role as caddy/coach. It is pretty eye opening when you ask them for feedback on your performance and what you can improve on as a parent/caddy. You can't allow yourself to get defensive...but just absorb what they have to say and take it and adjust moving forward.

 

Allowing them to feel comfortable telling you what works for them really helps (this is where you have to resist the urge to get defensive or explain your methods) They need to be able to be open in trusting they won't get in trouble for verbalizing their issues.

 

This recap of each of our performances has been tremendously helpful for both of us. I will give a concrete example that I am sure we are all guilty of:

 

Before shots I would kind of offer multiple things to think about "check your line, setup your feet, make a good turn, follow thru...." In a recap she told me it was too much to think about and threw her off. More than anything it was annoying to her. Now I offer one thing only depending on what's happening and she can process that one thought easily. A lot of times I don't even give her info...just 'rip it'.  The big thing is SHE told me to say 1 thing...so I am following her direction and she never gets upset anymore at my support or assistance.

 

I try and let her take lead and now she's asking me for advice rather than me talking too much at her. But all of these things came from us recapping each others performance. It has really helped in attitude in tournaments for us both. Attitude has been great the last few tournaments and scores are matching good vibes as they tend to do.

 

[rlee323]

A few suggestions from a parent with older juniors - transition away from caddying for your kids as soon as possible [do less for them while caddying, let them be in charge/be a true caddy] but emphasize practice rounds with you under tournament conditions [treat like a tournament, have to hole out, do their routines, etc. (unfortunately, this may mean you're picking up your ball a lot to keep pace of play - don't get me started on slow play at jr tournaments)] where you can interject more.  De-emphasize tournament finishes/collecting trophies/points, etc., emphasize really doing your best on every shot - it's them against the course/old man par.  When your junior is showing the right mentality in the practice rounds, then tournament golf is appropriate - really no good reason to over-index on tournament golf at younger ages.  Strongly feel that the right mentality is so important for golf (very different from other sports where what you do directly affects your opponent).  They'll outgrow the focus on their score and other competitor's score if you and their coach are consistent in focusing their attention on doing their best on each shot.

[DevilDog]

Good stuff rlee323.  Get kids off score focus.  Son's coach told him your job on the golf course is executing the shot you have not to worry what someone else may be shooting or what you're even shooting.  Job 1 is execution of the shot at hand.  Just like football for example if one executes every play, or shot in golf, then one will have a good chance of doing really well.  Also, learn to play stock shot 99% of the time like pros do.  Makes a player more consistent as well.  

 

My son stole a Lee Westwood trick.  Got a paint pen and wrote his launch monitor stock carry distances on the back of his irons.  Just a gentle reminder when he is facing a certain distance.  Helps him be his own caddie since most tournaments won't allow a caddie as you get older.