Call it how I see it: CHILDISH!

[Socrates]

7 hours ago, Dpavs said:

 

Then how do you know they are being fined at all? Just curious 🙂

Any bad behavior, if caught on camera, is fined.  They don't release the fine amounts, but it is pocket lint for the big boys.  For those guys struggling, it means more to them.

[deadsolid...shank]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:11 PM, Shilgy said:

And I’ve had it up to here young man with your misplaced outrage! 🤣

I’d like to be outraged too…..but I’m too tired to put in the effort. 
 

Personally, I don’t care (as long as the club throw isn’t in my direction). Some of the meltdowns I’ve seen have been far more entertaining than the golf. 

[sailfishchris]

[Dpavs]

12 hours ago, Socrates said:

Any bad behavior, if caught on camera, is fined.  They don't release the fine amounts, but it is pocket lint for the big boys.  For those guys struggling, it means more to them.

 

I completely agree, the fines alone are not significant enough for the top tier players.

[Hawkeye77]

29 minutes ago, Dpavs said:

 

I completely agree, the fines alone are not significant enough for the top tier players.

 

Yet, we don't see a lot of this behavior - speaks well in general to their professionalism and suggests that big $ fines probably aren't all that necessary unless the incident is bad enough to warrant or it is a repeat offense.  

 

 

[Dpavs]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Yet, we don't see a lot of this behavior - speaks well in general to their professionalism and suggests that big $ fines probably aren't all that necessary unless the incident is bad enough to warrant or it is a repeat offense.  

 

 

 

Agreed it is not running rampant on the tour at this point. Despite this IMO,  there should be a zero tolerance policy regarding it. I don't think even larger fines are going to get the job done for some players in all honesty, and they would be tougher on some players than others. Suspensions or the like might be more meaningful or impactful across the board.

[caniac6]

Bryson got roasted for saying his driver sucked. He didn't break any clubs, he didn't throw any clubs. Cobra responded to Bryson, strongly. I didn't hear anything from TM when Rory launched his three wood into the woods at Liberty National. The other club companies don't seem to make statements about players abusing their product on tv. Guys breaking clubs on tv sure isn't something the club makers want to see, and if I were a CEO of a company, paying a guy to play a product, that player would get a call monday morning explaining why his deal has just been reduced.

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, Dpavs said:

 

Agreed it is not running rampant on the tour at this point. Despite this IMO,  there should be a zero tolerance policy regarding it. I don't think even larger fines are going to get the job done for some players in all honesty, and they would be tougher on some players than others. Suspensions or the like might be more meaningful or impactful across the board.

Since there isn’t a real problem and nobody really knows the facts about fines or suspensions, there really isn’t any way to reach that conclusion. 

[Dpavs]

9 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Since there isn’t a real problem and nobody really knows the facts about fines or suspensions, there really isn’t any way to reach that conclusion. 

 

But then that is my point... waiting until there is a problem to curtail the undesirable conduct is not the right way to go, imo.

Granted however that without sufficient information, it is difficult to draw any substantial conclusions. That said, is there mere fact that occurrences continue to happen year after year and sometimes with the very same actors a good indicator that whatever they are doing... may be insufficient?

Edited September 1, 2021 by Dpavs

[Hawkeye77]

13 minutes ago, Dpavs said:

 

But then that is my point... waiting until there is a problem to curtail the undesirable conduct is not the right way to go, imo.

Granted however that without sufficient information, it is difficult to draw any substantial conclusions. That said, is there mere fact that occurrences continue to happen year after year and sometimes with the very same actors a good indicator that whatever they are doing... may be insufficient?

What's happened year after year with the same "actors" the past two or three years?

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, caniac6 said:

Bryson got roasted for saying his driver sucked. He didn't break any clubs, he didn't throw any clubs. Cobra responded to Bryson, strongly. I didn't hear anything from TM when Rory launched his three wood into the woods at Liberty National. The other club companies don't seem to make statements about players abusing their product on tv. Guys breaking clubs on tv sure isn't something the club makers want to see, and if I were a CEO of a company, paying a guy to play a product, that player would get a call monday morning explaining why his deal has just been reduced.

And a Rory could just say breach of contract and go somewhere he would get paid more.  
  Or, if he just won the USOpen the same week he broke a club over his knee what then for Mr CEO?

[Dpavs]

31 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

What's happened year after year with the same "actors" the past two or three years?

Let's go back to the original post...and I am going to disregard trying to place limitations on things to the past two or three years because I do not feel that is a reasonable thing to do in looking at something that has much longer history on the tour.

 

Quoting the OP -

"Rory did it a few months back, Si Woo did it at the Masters, Van Rooyen at the PGA, Cameron Smith, Hovland, and now Kizzire’s.."

 

In fact Kizzire has had at least two instances we know of this year with breaking clubs. Rory has thrown his fair share in the past... we can go back further to all the Sergio antics... and there is of course more but I don't think this is unknown stuff is it?

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

17 minutes ago, Dpavs said:

Let's go back to the original post...and I am going to disregard trying to place limitations on things to the past two or three years because I do not feel that is a reasonable thing to do in looking at something that has much longer history on the tour.

 

Quoting the OP -

"Rory did it a few months back, Si Woo did it at the Masters, Van Rooyen at the PGA, Cameron Smith, Hovland, and now Kizzire’s.."

 

In fact Kizzire has had at least two instances we know of this year with breaking clubs. Rory has thrown his fair share in the past... we can go back further to all the Sergio antics... and there is of course more but I don't think this is unknown stuff is it?

 

 

It's a history of very rare and isolated incidents.

[Pepperturbo]

On 8/30/2021 at 9:01 PM, puttingmatt said:

I view it as releasing frustration. Nothing more. , Same as when the players toss a club into the pond.  Makes a headline, not that big of a deal.

That may be the case for you...  But I assure you, when people publically lose control, especially "athletes", it's an indication of their lack of "not a big deal" concern, and may be what's happening, or about to happen, elsewhere.  I've encountered abusive people.  Ángel Cabrera is an example. 

[Pepperturbo]

On 8/31/2021 at 6:58 AM, Shilgy said:

Athletes have not changed at bit.  But media coverage of their antics has changed, insufferably imo.

I beg to differ on the first part, but agree regarding the media.  I played football so acquainted with a number of pro football players, golfers, and a few baseball players, retired.

[ChipStrokes]

On 8/30/2021 at 6:22 PM, Pepperturbo said:

Back in my youth, football players and pro athletes had class and self-control, they were proud to be college athletes and professionals.

i’d argue (successfully) that athletes today, on the whole, are more well behaved than the athletes of my father’s and grandfather’s (your) generation 

 

there are fewer bad actors nowadays, but they grab a disproportionate share of headlines and media coverage. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by ChipStrokes

[Pepperturbo]

1 minute ago, ChipStrokes said:

i’d argue (successfully) that athletes today, on the whole, are more well behaved than the athletes of my father’s and grandfather’s (your) generation 

 

there are fewer bad actors nowadays, but they grab a disproportionate share of headlines and media coverage. 

Boy, are you out of touch with pro athletes...  Sounds like a bias to me. 

[ChipStrokes]

3 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Boy, are you out of touch with pro athletes...  Sounds like a bias to me. 

old man i WAS a pro athlete. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by ChipStrokes

[Pepperturbo]

3 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

old man i WAS a pro athlete. 

So what, youngster... Do your damn homework... pro Football has more abusers, drug dealers & users, x-cons even murders than back in my day.  Basketball is the same, and Baseball is just as bad.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[ChipStrokes]

2 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

So what, youngster... Do your damn homework... pro Football has more abusers, drug dealers & users, x-cons even murders than back in my day.  Basketball is the same, and Baseball is just as bad.

athletes today have WAY more to lose than guys 20, 30, 50 years ago. they have agents, PR reps, social media managers, and a whole team of handlers making sure they toe the line. 

 

not to mention an omnipresent media waiting to catch them out. 

 

MOST of them keep their noses clean but we hear way more about the ones who aren’t able to. 

 

sports in the 50s 60s and 70s were just as full to the brim with cheats, dirtbags, womanizers, drunks, and users as they are today, if not more. 

 

there was just mutual respect between the players and the media back then that isn’t there today 

[Dpavs]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

It's a history of very rare and isolated incidents.

 

So how many and how often do they need to be before you feel the PGA should take a firmer stance?

I know we may disagree but I feel a zero tolerance policy with firmer repercussions is the prudent path to follow.

[jimbo123]

I was standing near Justin Rose a few years back and he hit the tee marker hard with his driver after a bad shot.  On TV I usually think this stuff is funny/entertaining.  In person it was just violent, and I really thought he was lucky the driver head didn’t fly off and injure a kid or something.  Breaking a club on their leg I still think is funny, anything dangerous I think should be a DQ. 

[caniac6]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

And a Rory could just say breach of contract and go somewhere he would get paid more.  
  Or, if he just won the USOpen the same week he broke a club over his knee what then for Mr CEO?

I don't care who they are, or what they have won, they represent my company, and are probably the highest paid employee. It's going to cost them, and if they don't like it, they can break another company's clubs next year. As far as I'm concerned, a golfer representing my company, breaking and abusing equipment they are getting paid a lot to play, are breaching their contract.

Edited September 1, 2021 by caniac6

[MountainKing]

5 hours ago, caniac6 said:

Bryson got roasted for saying his driver sucked. He didn't break any clubs, he didn't throw any clubs. Cobra responded to Bryson, strongly. I didn't hear anything from TM when Rory launched his three wood into the woods at Liberty National. The other club companies don't seem to make statements about players abusing their product on tv. Guys breaking clubs on tv sure isn't something the club makers want to see, and if I were a CEO of a company, paying a guy to play a product, that player would get a call monday morning explaining why his deal has just been reduced.

 

That line is exactly why you aren't CEO.  These guys don't care what the players do their clubs when playing, they only care that the player is a marketing tool for their revenue. Any player that had their deal "reduced" would just take their name and marketing power to another company that didn't reduce their deal.   Do the companies ya'll work for fine you if you swear at all during the work day?

 

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, Dpavs said:

 

So how many and how often do they need to be before you feel the PGA should take a firmer stance?

I know we may disagree but I feel a zero tolerance policy with firmer repercussions is the prudent path to follow.

 

We do seem to disagree - if I read you correctly you think the problem is a lot worse than it really is.  That's kind of a loaded question you asked because it implies there is a big problem, which IMO there really isn't at all. 

 

How many incidents vs. how many shots played by every player on Tour the past few years?  We're talking .00001% territory I would guess.

 

Probably going round in circles I guess, which is fine, but these things almost never happen and almost always get blown up by media (or threads on wrx).

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[caniac6]

42 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

 

That line is exactly why you aren't CEO.  These guys don't care what the players do their clubs when playing, they only care that the player is a marketing tool for their revenue. Any player that had their deal "reduced" would just take their name and marketing power to another company that didn't reduce their deal.   Do the companies ya'll work for fine you if you swear at all during the work day?

 

How much goodwill would it bring if players, instead of breaking clubs, or throwing clubs away, gave the club to a kid? That is the kind of player I would want representing my company. I heard, from an eyewitness, about a former major champion throwing over two dozen Circle Ts in a dumpster. Imagine the good publicity if he had donated them to the First Tee, or just handed them to kids at a local course.

[MountainKing]

12 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

How much goodwill would it bring if players, instead of breaking clubs, or throwing clubs away, gave the club to a kid? That is the kind of player I would want representing my company. I heard, from an eyewitness, about a former major champion throwing over two dozen Circle Ts in a dumpster. Imagine the good publicity if he had donated them to the First Tee, or just handed them to kids at a local course.

 

Most of these equipment manufactures put up millions a year for charity (on top of equipment donations to underprivileged areas ect), and many of the players have given 5 to 6 figure amounts.   I'm not sure how much more good publicity is needed than that.  

 

Since Rory has been called out in this thread, he's donated his time over the years to run clinics for the first tee and donated plenty of earnings.  Taylormade, his sponsor, has a partnership with them to provide equipment and money.  Perhaps if ya'll stopped focusing so much on the negative stuff, you'd see how much great work a lot of these players and companies do.  

Edited September 1, 2021 by MountainKing

[teehilden]

1 hour ago, caniac6 said:

How much goodwill would it bring if players, instead of breaking clubs, or throwing clubs away, gave the club to a kid? That is the kind of player I would want representing my company. I heard, from an eyewitness, about a former major champion throwing over two dozen Circle Ts in a dumpster. Imagine the good publicity if he had donated them to the First Tee, or just handed them to kids at a local course.

If only I knew which dumpster! Lol

[teehilden]

2 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

We do seem to disagree - if I read you correctly you think the problem is a lot worse than it really is.  That's kind of a loaded question you asked because it implies there is a big problem, which IMO there really isn't at all. 

 

How many incidents vs. how many shots played by every player on Tour the past few years?  We're talking .00001% territory I would guess.

 

Probably going round in circles I guess, which is fine, but these things almost never happen and almost always get blown up by media (or threads on wrx).

 

 

 

 

I just think it is a weak display of discipline and lacks respect for the fans, players, sponsors, etc. You can be passionate about something and not break/throw things. Stay on the range or putting green until after the sun goes down. Grind the next week for 18 hours a day or something. Be a man about it.

[Dpavs]

4 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

We do seem to disagree - if I read you correctly you think the problem is a lot worse than it really is.  That's kind of a loaded question you asked because it implies there is a big problem, which IMO there really isn't at all. 

 

How many incidents vs. how many shots played by every player on Tour the past few years?  We're talking .00001% territory I would guess.

 

Probably going round in circles I guess, which is fine, but these things almost never happen and almost always get blown up by media (or threads on wrx).

 

 

 

 

 

I think you are reading what I am saying a bit incorrectly. I am not saying it happens to any percentage because honestly I think neither you nor I could come up with a justifiable number as we have no real data to work with. What I am saying though is when it comes to this sort of behavior I am in favor of a zero tolerance policy with firm penalties. Again, IMO it is the best way to deal with it. I think I understand that you on the other hand feel that because it happens with some degree of infrequency that a more lax approach is appropriate. So I think this is where we digress on this particular subject. In the end it's just a difference of opinion and view point and it's all good for us to have different opinions. 👍🙂

Edited September 2, 2021 by Dpavs