I want to learn more about Scotty Cameron Circle T

[hypergolf]

Hi,

 

I would like to buy my first Scotty Cameron Circle T putter so would like to educate myself before pulling the trigger.

I would appreciate any information on especially the following:

 

1. What is the exact difference between SSS and GSS?

2. What is the equivalent of Newport and Newport 2? I heard of 009, Timeless, Tour Rat 1 and 2 etc.

3. How many different logos are there? Eg: I saw dog logo, jester logo etc.

4. How do you tell real from fake?

5. Any other interesting information about Circle T would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks.

[cforselius]

1. SSS and GSS is the same thing, don't give in to the GSS hype

2. Newport = 009, Tour rat 1. Newport 2=Timeless tour rat 2.

3. Not sure what to answer, but I assume Circle T will be the logo on your putter. It can be whatever.

4. Buy from a reputable seller or have it come with a authentication papers. 

5. Interesting facts about question 1, GSS is a trademark and not an actual thing. SSS, GSS etc is just Scottys way of making more money.

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by cforselius

[Abh159]

 

1. SSS = Surgical Stainless Steel; GSS = German Stainless Steel
2. The numbers should line up - i.e. Rat = Newport and Rat 2 = Newport 2
3. I'm not sure what you mean by logos, but there are about 1,000 different stamps available out there that could be used. FYI just because something has a dog stamp or a jester stamp doesn't mean it's a circle T. You can send any putter to SC and they'll put those stamps on it. 
4. Buy it from an authorized or highly reputable retailer, and avoid deals that are "too good to be true". Make sure it has the authentication papers.
5. I love SC and I've been putting with one exclusively for close to 20 years now, but I'd never buy a circle T. Essentially you're paying 10x the price for not much more than a stamp on the putter, but hey if that's your thing then by all means go for it. Plus if you don't like it you can easily sell it to someone else and not lose any money.

[MattM97]

1. Nothing just paying more for a different letter stamped on the putter. 

2. There are many iterations of different models. Like a 009 for example, there is 009, 009 Masterful with a bit more rounded shape, 009RT where the topline has a rolled top. Tour Rat is solid milled, Super Rat has a GSS insert, more recent ones are Tour Type.

3. Nothing they're just stamps only logo that would be different is the Rat logo as that's a model on its own. 

4. There are many telltale signs just look at many "Is this Scotty real?" posts on WRX. 

 

[Fairway14]

4 hours ago, hypergolf said:

Hi,

 

I would like to buy my first Scotty Cameron Circle T putter so would like to educate myself before pulling the trigger.

I would appreciate any information on especially the following:

 

1. What is the exact difference between SSS and GSS?

2. What is the equivalent of Newport and Newport 2? I heard of 009, Timeless, Tour Rat 1 and 2 etc.

3. How many different logos are there? Eg: I saw dog logo, jester logo etc.

4. How do you tell real from fake?

5. Any other interesting information about Circle T would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks.

1) German Stainless Steel (GSS) is produced in Germany. SSS is American Stainless Steel.

2) 009= Newport shape. Timeless =Newport 2 shape.

3) Scotty reserves certain stamps only for Tour putters

4) Post photos of the putter head here at Golfwrx

5) 30 years ago Scotty used a very small T stamp to designate the putter (s) he made for Tour players. More recently , for head covers and to make the Tour designation more easily recognized, he  has used the Circle T stamp. Some Tour putters do not have a T or Circle T stamp.

* 30 years ago Scotty sold his Tour putters through four authorized distributors. Those distributors sold inventory Scotty sent them and, or, placed custom Tour putter  orders for consumers.  Approximately 5 years ago Scotty began selling Tour putters through the Cameron Gallery store (s) and discontinued his previous arrangement with the four independent distributors.

[drscott266]

There is a difference between retail and Circle T, certainly in the feel department. I have never messed with GSS but friends of mine who have say it’s not worth the premium. Prices on CT’s are super high right now, so I would choose carefully before buying. If you know a certain style works for you the matching CT model will just feel different than the retail version. Mallets are identical to retail unless they have a different welded neck or something. 
 

if you just want to collect and not play it, than by all means buy whatever suits your eye.  I have cycled through about a dozen CT’s and understand both sides of the argument for and against. If you have the income and want one enjoy it!  Cameron collector is a great resource for these sticks or feel free to PM me with any more questions. This site is very polarized on the subject. 

[cforselius]

15 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

1) German Stainless Steel (GSS) is produced in Germany. SSS is American Stainless Steel.

2) 009= Newport shape. Timeless =Newport 2 shape.

3) Scotty reserves certain stamps only for Tour putters

4) Post photos of the putter head here at Golfwrx

5) 30 years ago Scotty used a very small T stamp to designate the putter (s) he made for Tour players. More recently , for head covers and to make the Tour designation more easily recognized, he  has used the Circle T stamp. Some Tour putters do not have a T or Circle T stamp.

* 30 years ago Scotty sold his Tour putters through four authorized distributors. Those distributors sold inventory Scotty sent them and, or, placed custom Tour putter  orders for consumers.  Approximately 5 years ago Scotty began selling Tour putters through the Cameron Gallery store (s) and discontinued his previous arrangement with the four independent distributors.

GSS is a trademark, not actual german stainless steel.

[Fairway14]

7 hours ago, cforselius said:

GSS is a trademark, not actual german stainless steel.

 

Scotty has said he bought a block of steel from Germany , which was more expensive than USA produced steel, so to signify that a a putter head was made from the German stuff he decided to stamp the putter head GSS. So, I believe that for 30 years now any putters produced by Cameron with the stamping GSS are of Germany-made steel.

[Matt70]

Rumor has it that SC was originally sourcing steel from Sheffield in Britain but changed to Germany when he realised that people would call it BS

Edited August 31, 2021 by Matt70

[mdmack]

Just went through the same research. My conclusion was basically that there is nothing really that special about the circle T except for the exclusivity. If thats what your after than by all means go for it, but if your in it because you think it will make you a better putter........ it wont. Thats only my opinion of course, others may say it gives them more confidence or something, but i could not feel any discernable difference in the circle T's i was able to try out and my OTR scottys.  

[MattM97]

2 hours ago, Matt70 said:

Rumor has it that SC was originally sourcing steel from Sheffield in Britain but changed to Germany when he realised that people would call it BS

 

What about that American Stainless Steel? 

[Abh159]

4 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

 

What about that American Stainless Steel? 

 

Firmest steel on earth. So firm you could bounce a quarter off of it. 

[mhdena]

Save your $$$$, but an off the rack new Newport or Newport 2 from a Pro Shop or Golf Store. 

 

I have Newport 2 in Studio Stainless, Studio Style, Studio Select all bought new from Roger Dunn. 

 

No interest in any collectable or tour edition.

Edited September 1, 2021 by mhdena

[DrJACOB]

At this point 10 of thousands of CT and or 009 are out in the wild.  Most never seen a tour event or were even made by Scotty Cameron himself.  The one's he worked on are labeled "Garage" or marked "S. Cameron".  The complete record of how many have been made seems to be hidden. 

 

I am not trying to be negative however I just believe they are not as rare as you would think for the price they sell for.  Most logic goes out the window with anything Scotty Cameron's and they hold value without a doubt.   Plus the Scotty Cameron make a great quality putters even OTR and he does set the bar high with putters.  

 

Most move away from Cameron's after realizing the many other guy do the same quality of work and you have options to get what you really want (accessibility).  Some even taught Scotty Cameron back in the day.

KJ

 

 

[ccantine8]

Go for a timeless sss. I have one, it is handstamped and small titleist stamp on the sole nothing else. It feels great and is not one of those tour type production circle t putters. Go for a ct made in the 2000’s

[bladehunter]

On 8/31/2021 at 12:53 AM, cforselius said:

GSS is a trademark, not actual german stainless steel.

This will cause great wailing and gnashing of teeth.  But here goes. 
 

If you’ve ever worked with or welded stainless steel.  You’ll know that the carbon and chromium content etc isn’t all the exact same on all 303 or 304 stainless.  And blanks aren’t all same. here’s a nice back and forth in a cutlery forum.  Same debate.  Nobody claiming same. Nobody claiming special either.  
 

i personally believe that the German that Byron Morgan and Cameron use is a true forged block.  Not just a rolled block that is hit a few times with a hammer and called forged.  
 

if you look at Cameron putters in hand of the same shapes.  One sss and one GSS. Many show different shades of color. The GSS is Almost always a hair darker.  And they’ll take a weld cleaner in general.  There is a difference.  Does it matter ?  Not  to the degree that is stated by price. But it’s not just a name.  
 

 

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/what-is-german-steel-composed-of.359983/

 

[T-MAC]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

This will cause great wailing and gnashing of teeth.  But here goes. 
 

If you’ve ever worked with or welded stainless steel.  You’ll know that the carbon and chromium content etc isn’t all the exact same on all 303 or 304 stainless.  And blanks aren’t all same. here’s a nice back and forth in a cutlery forum.  Same debate.  Nobody claiming same. Nobody claiming special either.  
 

i personally believe that the German that Byron Morgan and Cameron use is a true forged block.  Not just a rolled block that is hit a few times with a hammer and called forged.  
 

if you look at Cameron putters in hand of the same shapes.  One sss and one GSS. Many show different shades of color. The GSS is Almost always a hair darker.  And they’ll take a weld cleaner in general.  There is a difference.  Does it matter ?  Not  to the degree that is stated by price. But it’s not just a name.  
 

 

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/what-is-german-steel-composed-of.359983/

 

You are correct.
There IS a difference between SS and GSS, so it isn't exactly "hype" and it isn't Scotty (or Byron, or any other putter maker) trying to rip people off by pawning regular Stainless Steel off as something different.  The steel from Germany IS different.  It looks different, feels different, sounds different, and it's more expensive.
Where the "rip off" comes from is the additional costs that some of the putter makers are charging for a GSS putter.  Why, in my opinion, is it a rip off?  Because it's not THAT different, and it's not THAT much more expensive to get it.  Scotty started the hype and additional mark up and it seemed to stick and bleed over into several other putter makers (although their markups aren't nearly as bad).  The rest is history.
I remember, not long ago, a person who purchased a GSS directly from Scotty (or Authorized dealer back in the day) would actually LOSE money on them because people didn't want to pay the mark up over SS.  Today, SSS putters are selling for what GSS putters sold for a few years ago and GSS putters are selling for absolutely stupid markups.  It's crazy, but there IS a correction coming and it has started already (although the flippers don't seem to realize it yet).
As for the "SSS" stamping on the putters.............that was actually done because of fraud.  Scotty used to stamp all of his stainless steel putters with a simple "SS".  But people started stamping a "G" in front of them and trying to sell them as "GSS" putters so Scotty added an additional "S" to keep that from happening.

[bladehunter]

30 minutes ago, T-MAC said:

You are correct.
There IS a difference between SS and GSS, so it isn't exactly "hype" and it isn't Scotty (or Byron, or any other putter maker) trying to rip people off by pawning regular Stainless Steel off as something different.  The steel from Germany IS different.  It looks different, feels different, sounds different, and it's more expensive.
Where the "rip off" comes from is the additional costs that some of the putter makers are charging for a GSS putter.  Why, in my opinion, is it a rip off?  Because it's not THAT different, and it's not THAT much more expensive to get it.  Scotty started the hype and additional mark up and it seemed to stick and bleed over into several other putter makers (although their markups aren't nearly as bad).  The rest is history.
I remember, not long ago, a person who purchased a GSS directly from Scotty (or Authorized dealer back in the day) would actually LOSE money on them because people didn't want to pay the mark up over SS.  Today, SSS putters are selling for what GSS putters sold for a few years ago and GSS putters are selling for absolutely stupid markups.  It's crazy, but there IS a correction coming and it has started already (although the flippers don't seem to realize it yet).
As for the "SSS" stamping on the putters.............that was actually done because of fraud.  Scotty used to stamp all of his stainless steel putters with a simple "SS".  But people started stamping a "G" in front of them and trying to sell them as "GSS" putters so Scotty added an additional "S" to keep that from happening.

Totally agree. 

[WJack13]

On 11/28/2022 at 5:16 PM, T-MAC said:

You are correct.
There IS a difference between SS and GSS, so it isn't exactly "hype" and it isn't Scotty (or Byron, or any other putter maker) trying to rip people off by pawning regular Stainless Steel off as something different.  The steel from Germany IS different.  It looks different, feels different, sounds different, and it's more expensive.
Where the "rip off" comes from is the additional costs that some of the putter makers are charging for a GSS putter.  Why, in my opinion, is it a rip off?  Because it's not THAT different, and it's not THAT much more expensive to get it.  Scotty started the hype and additional mark up and it seemed to stick and bleed over into several other putter makers (although their markups aren't nearly as bad).  The rest is history.
I remember, not long ago, a person who purchased a GSS directly from Scotty (or Authorized dealer back in the day) would actually LOSE money on them because people didn't want to pay the mark up over SS.  Today, SSS putters are selling for what GSS putters sold for a few years ago and GSS putters are selling for absolutely stupid markups.  It's crazy, but there IS a correction coming and it has started already (although the flippers don't seem to realize it yet).
As for the "SSS" stamping on the putters.............that was actually done because of fraud.  Scotty used to stamp all of his stainless steel putters with a simple "SS".  But people started stamping a "G" in front of them and trying to sell them as "GSS" putters so Scotty added an additional "S" to keep that from happening.

 Agreed & Interesting last sentence i was not aware...

 

[Scotty used to stamp all of his stainless steel putters with a simple "SS".  But people started stamping a "G" in front of them and trying to sell them as "GSS" putters so Scotty added an additional "S" to keep that from happening.]

 

Now, we know there's a difference between Scotty Cameron's GSS and SSS though 99% including me agree it's hardly noticeable & certainly not 3x-4x the price difference.

 

Question: Back when Cameron stamped his ( Non GSS) Circle T's just "SS" not "SSS" Why didn't He just stamp them as "303" or "303 SS" instead of just "SS" in the first place?

Is there a difference between Cameron's 303 on all his OTR's & the "SS/SSS" on Circle T's? 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by WJack13

[Kamen]

On 11/28/2022 at 3:16 PM, T-MAC said:

You are correct.
There IS a difference between SS and GSS, so it isn't exactly "hype" and it isn't Scotty (or Byron, or any other putter maker) trying to rip people off by pawning regular Stainless Steel off as something different.  The steel from Germany IS different.  It looks different, feels different, sounds different, and it's more expensive.
Where the "rip off" comes from is the additional costs that some of the putter makers are charging for a GSS putter.  Why, in my opinion, is it a rip off?  Because it's not THAT different, and it's not THAT much more expensive to get it.  Scotty started the hype and additional mark up and it seemed to stick and bleed over into several other putter makers (although their markups aren't nearly as bad).  The rest is history.
I remember, not long ago, a person who purchased a GSS directly from Scotty (or Authorized dealer back in the day) would actually LOSE money on them because people didn't want to pay the mark up over SS.  Today, SSS putters are selling for what GSS putters sold for a few years ago and GSS putters are selling for absolutely stupid markups.  It's crazy, but there IS a correction coming and it has started already (although the flippers don't seem to realize it yet).
As for the "SSS" stamping on the putters.............that was actually done because of fraud.  Scotty used to stamp all of his stainless steel putters with a simple "SS".  But people started stamping a "G" in front of them and trying to sell them as "GSS" putters so Scotty added an additional "S" to keep that from happening.

I’m gonna disagree about the markup adjustment because where I’m from they are the Rolex of putters and so many people have them. Buying one for MSRP is considered a deal now! 
 

I’ve always wanted one to game but I’d have a hard time paying market price and putting one in the bag. I’ll keep browsing the gallery site on Wednesday’s, maybe one day I’ll get the draw. 
 

They are just commodities now and amongst the hardcore there is a community.