Why are some people so bitter about letting a faster player play through?

[flip flappy]

To answer the question in the title of this thread, Why are people so bitter about letting a faster player through, because people are weird. I play a decent amount with a guy that is a type A personality. He always wants to play through slower groups but is hesitant to let others play through. I can't stand to have someone breathing down my neck so I have to get on him to let them through. He always has to drive the cart also. People are weird. 

[klebs01]

1 hour ago, 2bGood said:

I think you inferring that not allowing singles is somehow breaking the rules of golf? If so then what you are implying is completely untrue. There is no rule stating that a single needs to be allowed on the course and of course the handicap rules do not recognise rounds played as a single. 

 

Single are really not an issue for us, if there was single on the tee sheet, other members jump in with them or the pro-shop would ask the foursome before or after them to have a player join the single or they would move the single into a threesome.

 

It is up to the club if you allow single booking and of course you can not normally play as a single in competitive play. If for some reason you do have to play as single a marker would be sent out with you. 

 

Or maybe I misunderstand your post and what you are referring to. 

 

45 minutes ago, MPAndreassi said:

I’m curious as to which “rule of golf” you’re referring to? 

i am referring to the section of the rules that specify what a group is and state that a single constitutes a group and has standing on the course. I’ve posted the actual rules and history and it changed in the 2004-2008 time frame if I remember correctly. 

[MPAndreassi]

10 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

 

i am referring to the section of the rules that specify what a group is and state that a single constitutes a group and has standing on the course. I’ve posted the actual rules and history and it changed in the 2004-2008 time frame if I remember correctly. 

I’d like to see that, not being confrontational just genuinely curious. You’re not allowed to post solo rounds for handicap purposes, and there’s no rules about letting groups, single or otherwise, play through. It turns into an etiquette question more so than a rule. 

[2bGood]

52 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

 

i am referring to the section of the rules that specify what a group is and state that a single constitutes a group and has standing on the course. I’ve posted the actual rules and history and it changed in the 2004-2008 time frame if I remember correctly. 

What rule number is this in? Section 5 is the rule that deals with groups. Rule 5.4b states the committee sets the groups and you must remain in that group (unless the committee approves otherwise). Of course in Match play you have to be in same group. Let me know what I missing???

 

As I say the club (their committee) can set the rules for group size. I can find any rule that says a club has to allow singles. 

ups

5.4a Match Play

During a round, the player and opponent must play each hole in the same group. 

 

5.4b Stroke Play

During a round, the player must remain in the group set by the Committee, unless the Committee approves a change either before or after it happens.

Penalty for Breach of Rule 5.4: Disqualification.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by 2bGood

[4x4GGG]

This post is such an inspiration for the ways that I would never ever choose to be. 

 

2 facts about me: 

1. I actually feel the energy or people around me. A lot. Anxiety of others amazes me. Why are you pressing me on a packed course? Why are you close stepping me in the grocery store? Riding my bumper in rush hour traffic? And because of this super power I'm also one of the most laid back people you can meet. 

2. I am also the fastest pace of play golfer on these forums*. 18 hole par three I play regularly I've done 36 holes in 2.5 hours, walking, clubs on my back. My usual group says they aren't talking in my back swing, but that I'm swinging during their conversation. From "It's safe to hit" time and me putting my head cover back on is usually less than 10 seconds. And being a laid back guy, I don't start my swing process until the group in front is A) on the green when I'm on the Tee, and B) hit my approach until the group has driven away from the green. I play golf like a skilled driver working a manual transmission. Never force it, coast when you can. Never stand on the throttle just so that you have to stand on the brake. 

I recently posted about a vacation I took in Williamsburg VA where I was a single and had a 3 and 4 some in front of me and the most high strung 3 some behind me. If their best hitter could drive 250, they'd wait until I was 251 out to tee off. I was walking to my cart when I'd hear balls land around the green, only to pull up as #2 of 4 in front of me is teeing off. On 4 I told them the go in front of me, but they didn't because there was no where to go. Instead they just rode me like a circus mule until 9. Some where around 8 they called the Pro shop to complain about pace of play. And for the record, I finished that Wednesday afternoon round in about 4:15. I'm pretty certain it was #9, a par 5 on the Green course, where they lost their minds with me. Hit a bad tee shot left and hit a great provisional. Found my first in a bunker left side about 220 yards out. Based on the other group and making smart decisions I played a 6i out and drove to my provisional, about 260 from the tee. And I sat there. No where for me to go, so I just sat at my PVB until the green was clear. When the green cleared I drove to my first ball second shot,  hit a wedge to the green and putted out while they rushed to get to their drives. At the turn I intentionally sat back and let them pass me while I sat in my cart chomping on a hot dog. 

 

Stopping the spiral of this post, the pro drove up to me on 9 and apologized for the slow round. I told him I'm on vacation, I have no where I have to be, and aside from the group behind me that called you, I'm relaxed AF. I offered the group behind to go and the declined, so I'm just out here to chill. And contrary to what they say on this forum, #asinglehasnorights on the golf course and just relax and check out between shots. 

 

 

[2bGood]

1 hour ago, flip flappy said:

To answer the question in the title of this thread, Why are people so bitter about letting a faster player through, because people are weird. I play a decent amount with a guy that is a type A personality. He always wants to play through slower groups but is hesitant to let others play through. I can't stand to have someone breathing down my neck so I have to get on him to let them through. He always has to drive the cart also. People are weird. 

Yes that a good an answer as any. To add to the people are weird -  a few times we have slowed down and waited at tee to let someone play through and then they say no they prefer not to. So it not a given people want to play through. Truth is many golfers who like to play solo find it intimidated to have to play through and play in-front of strangers. 

 

I am not sure if ever got answered, but what do people say to the OP when he asked "do you mind if I play through?" This might shed some light on the reasons.

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by 2bGood

[2bGood]

13 minutes ago, 4x4GGG said:

This post is such an inspiration for the ways that I would never ever choose to be. 

 

2 facts about me: 

1. I actually feel the energy or people around me. A lot. Anxiety of others amazes me. Why are you pressing me on a packed course? Why are you close stepping me in the grocery store? Riding my bumper in rush hour traffic? And because of this super power I'm also one of the most laid back people you can meet. 

2. I am also the fastest pace of play golfer on these forums*. 18 hole par three I play regularly I've done 36 holes in 2.5 hours, walking, clubs on my back. My usual group says they aren't talking in my back swing, but that I'm swinging during their conversation. From "It's safe to hit" time and me putting my head cover back on is usually less than 10 seconds. And being a laid back guy, I don't start my swing process until the group in front is A) on the green when I'm on the Tee, and B) hit my approach until the group has driven away from the green. I play golf like a skilled driver working a manual transmission. Never force it, coast when you can. Never stand on the throttle just so that you have to stand on the brake. 

I recently posted about a vacation I took in Williamsburg VA where I was a single and had a 3 and 4 some in front of me and the most high strung 3 some behind me. If their best hitter could drive 250, they'd wait until I was 251 out to tee off. I was walking to my cart when I'd hear balls land around the green, only to pull up as #2 of 4 in front of me is teeing off. On 4 I told them the go in front of me, but they didn't because there was no where to go. Instead they just rode me like a circus mule until 9. Some where around 8 they called the Pro shop to complain about pace of play. And for the record, I finished that Wednesday afternoon round in about 4:15. I'm pretty certain it was #9, a par 5 on the Green course, where they lost their minds with me. Hit a bad tee shot left and hit a great provisional. Found my first in a bunker left side about 220 yards out. Based on the other group and making smart decisions I played a 6i out and drove to my provisional, about 260 from the tee. And I sat there. No where for me to go, so I just sat at my PVB until the green was clear. When the green cleared I drove to my first ball second shot,  hit a wedge to the green and putted out while they rushed to get to their drives. At the turn I intentionally sat back and let them pass me while I sat in my cart chomping on a hot dog. 

 

Stopping the spiral of this post, the pro drove up to me on 9 and apologized for the slow round. I told him I'm on vacation, I have no where I have to be, and aside from the group behind me that called you, I'm relaxed AF. I offered the group behind to go and the declined, so I'm just out here to chill. And contrary to what they say on this forum, #asinglehasnorights on the golf course and just relax and check out between shots. 

 

 

Great post and good story.

 

For the record, my post was that a single has no standing at my club - not at all clubs or all courses. We have a busy tee sheet and we have always believed members should be playing with other members - not alone. Not because people hate singles but because

a. we don't have empty tee times typically 

b. people take the idea that we are a 'club' seriously and just like a golfer would be invited to play with others, if someone came for a beer on their own you get invited to join a group.

c. a very high number of rounds are competitive and you can't play as a single in them

Edited August 31, 2021 by 2bGood

[tatertot]

2 hours ago, 2bGood said:

Each club is different, we happen to have a club that has many competitive events in a week, along with active match play leagues and playing as single would maybe happen to one person per week in peak times. It happens to be extraordinarily rare.

So ... you're saying ... out of 500 tee times a week ... you might have 1 single go out? That is, might I say, unbelievable.

 

But you do have the proper avatar.

[david.c.w]

1 hour ago, klebs01 said:

 

i am referring to the section of the rules that specify what a group is and state that a single constitutes a group and has standing on the course. I’ve posted the actual rules and history and it changed in the 2004-2008 time frame if I remember correctly. 

 

I will rephrase.   Singles have standing.  Singles do not have priority.

Edited August 31, 2021 by david.c.w

[Argonne69]

8 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

You need a new Rule book. That one went out several revisions ago. 😉

 

2004 to be exact. A revision in 2008 cemented it. Singles have the same standing as any other group. 

 

Per the USGA and Rules and Decisions:

"Priority on the Course
Unless otherwise determined by the Committee, priority on the course is determined by a group's pace of play. The term "group" includes a single player."

 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Argonne69

[sui generis]

14 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

2004 to be exact. A revision in 2008 cemented it. Singles have the same standing as any other group. 

 

Per the USGA and Rules and Decisions:

"Priority on the Course
Unless otherwise determined by the Committee, priority on the course is determined by a group's pace of play. The term "group" includes a single player."

 

 

 

Thanks for doing the legwork. 🙂

[Argonne69]

4 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

Thanks for doing the legwork. 🙂

 

I have it handy. I had an argument with a ranger a couple of weeks ago when he told me singles have no standing on the course. If you're going to hire someone to enforce the rules, maybe they should catch up on the changes over the past 2 decades. 

 

Of course, at a private club I guess the committee can do what it pleases. Still, I've never understood why any group would want a faster group on their tails when there are open holes ahead. Heck, I played a solo round today on an empty course and let a faster single play through. 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Argonne69

[david.c.w]

11 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

I have it handy. I had an argument with a ranger a couple of weeks ago when he told me singles have no standing on the course. If you're going to hire someone to enforce the rules, maybe they should catch up on the changes over the past 2 decades. 

 

Of course, at a private club I guess the committee can do what it pleases. Still, I've never understood why any group would want a faster group on their tails when there are open holes ahead. Heck, I played a solo round today on an empty course and let a faster single play through. 

 

 

Sure would be nice if the folks on here would read the posts and generate context before posting rules like they are black and white.  

 

@sui generisand @Argonne69, how would you proceed in this scenario?

 

Pace of play is currently at 4:30.

Your foursome is behind a par 3 tee box watching the foursome in front of you tee off.  As they head to the green, a single catches you while you wait.  The group on front if you had to wait 6 min for the green to clear.  

 

What happens with the single?  What does he do?

[ArtMBgolf]

10 hours ago, Kmagnuss said:

This happened to me yesterday (again), and isn't uncommon.  I play a private course and typically I'm by myself.  I always walk. 7.2 hcp.  If the course is wide open I typically finish in 2:15-2:30.  I walk fast, putt fast, walk up to my ball and hit it.  I almost always play significantly faster than twosomes on carts, but not always.  Why do some people not let me play through when I'm literally standing next to the tee box watching them tee off with nobody in front of them?  Three and foursomes never do this... it's always twosomes.  What makes it painfully worse is when the course is cart path only... people can't wrap their heads around how much time it takes them to walk from a left hand cart path to their slice on the right side, then back to their cart.

If they don't let me pass after two holes of this I usually just walk past them to the next hole and give myself a bogey on the one I skipped.

 

-Mag

Besides not knowing the let faster players through concept, a twosome may 
be fast players, but still can't stay ahead of a fast single or they are jealous of
how fast you play.   
 
If wide open, it's more comfortable to let others through.  
 
A private course should normally be a more let people through course, especially
during non busy times.     

[2bGood]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

 

2004 to be exact. A revision in 2008 cemented it. Singles have the same standing as any other group. 

 

Per the USGA and Rules and Decisions:

"Priority on the Course
Unless otherwise determined by the Committee, priority on the course is determined by a group's pace of play. The term "group" includes a single player."

 

 

Back to where this branch of this conversation started  per this- the committee (club) can determine priority and the status of a single. The 'rules' you are quoting seems to be pre 2019 given you reference 'decisions'

 

Do you know where this is in the modern rules (post 2019). I did not think this was included in the actual rules anymore and now is just in part of the guidance the USGA and R & A offer. 

[puttingmatt]

 

Barring a physical handicap , most slow players, whether on  private or public courses suffer from  LOFT issues.

Faster players are well aware of this,

and need to be considerate , and  make adjustments as needed,  not limited to replaying a previous hole,  skipping a hole,

doing whatever to relieve the bottleneck on the course.  Our club had a players board and rangers that were  members to assist in keeping the play flowing at a very good pace, especially at peak times.

 

[Kmagnuss]

6 hours ago, 2bGood said:

I am not sure if ever got answered, but what do people say to the OP when he asked "do you mind if I play through?" This might shed some light on the reasons.

 

Sorry, I didn't see this question earlier.  I don't usually ask to play through... usually.  Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like it's a little rude to ask to play through.

[Argonne69]

7 hours ago, david.c.w said:

 

Sure would be nice if the folks on here would read the posts and generate context before posting rules like they are black and white.  

 

@sui generisand @Argonne69, how would you proceed in this scenario?

 

Pace of play is currently at 4:30.

Your foursome is behind a par 3 tee box watching the foursome in front of you tee off.  As they head to the green, a single catches you while you wait.  The group on front if you had to wait 6 min for the green to clear.  

 

What happens with the single?  What does he do?

 

The single waits if there is nowhere to go. The OP clearly stated that there were open holes ahead. On a fully booked course it's an entirely different matter.

 

Personally, if I were in the threesome I'd ask the single if they would like to join us. 

 

[Argonne69]

8 hours ago, 2bGood said:

What rule number is this in? Section 5 is the rule that deals with groups. Rule 5.4b states the committee sets the groups and you must remain in that group (unless the committee approves otherwise). Of course in Match play you have to be in same group. Let me know what I missing???

 

As I say the club (their committee) can set the rules for group size. I can find any rule that says a club has to allow singles. 

ups

5.4a Match Play

During a round, the player and opponent must play each hole in the same group. 

 

5.4b Stroke Play

During a round, the player must remain in the group set by the Committee, unless the Committee approves a change either before or after it happens.

Penalty for Breach of Rule 5.4: Disqualification.

 

 

 

5.6b:

 

A round of golf is meant to be played at a prompt pace.

 

Each player should recognize that his or her pace of play is likely to affect how long it will take other players to play their rounds, including both those in the player’s own group and those in following groups.

 

Players are encouraged to allow faster groups to play through.

 

In 2008 they clarified that single players are considered groups. I have to dig up the current definitions.

 

[denkea]

18 hours ago, david.c.w said:

GENERALLY speaking golf is supposed to be played by foursomes

That is an amazingly arrogant statement.  IMHO of course.  

[sui generis]

41 minutes ago, denkea said:

That is an amazingly arrogant statement.  IMHO of course.  

 

Yes, but we think he's English and for many there, that's the game. 🙂

[2bGood]

5 hours ago, Kmagnuss said:

Sorry, I didn't see this question earlier.  I don't usually ask to play through... usually.  Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like it's a little rude to ask to play through.

I think sometimes people don't know people want to play through. It is always better if it is offered, but I don't think it is rude to ask (very nicely). 

[david.c.w]

59 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

Yes, but we think he's English and for many there, that's the game. 🙂

 

Nope, not English.  Live in the southern US.

 

What @2bGoodand I are saying (if anyone actually read our posts), is that we agree that if there is a faster group behind us and there is an open hole in front of us, we will let them through.  What we take issue with is the player who plays so fast that everyone else is too slow, and they should be able to barrel though everyone regardless of how the course is stacked up.

1 hour ago, denkea said:

That is an amazingly arrogant statement.  IMHO of course.  

 

Notice I said "generally".  At pretty much every golf course i have ever played, there are spots for 4 players at certain tee time.  95% of the time the course will do their best to fill all 4, especially during the current golf surge.  This goes for muni's and privates.   

[2bGood]

4 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

5.6b:

 

A round of golf is meant to be played at a prompt pace.

 

Each player should recognize that his or her pace of play is likely to affect how long it will take other players to play their rounds, including both those in the player’s own group and those in following groups.

 

Players are encouraged to allow faster groups to play through.

 

In 2008 they clarified that single players are considered groups. I have to dig up the current definitions.

 

I do not believe it is included in the current definitions, but it does not really matter, I think it clear they encourage allowing playing through. (why wouldn't they?)

 

Then RB's give guidance that the committee is to define groups as they see fit otherwise it is any size 1-infinity is consider a group.

 

The  authorised model local rules don't actually refer to playing through as an acceptable way for slow group to manage pace (section K). Not sure why?

 

It will be interesting to see if the RB's revise the view on singles given the single round handicap status. 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by 2bGood

[2bGood]

1 hour ago, sui generis said:

 

Yes, but we think he's English and for many there, that's the game. 🙂

Being in clubs in the UK, US, Canada and played at clubs around the world. I would say the thought that golf is played with others is pretty common outside the US and in regions of the US. I would not call myself any kind of authority as I only have my own personal sample size. My sample sample size is also heavily skewed towards club golf.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by 2bGood

[MountainKing]

4 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

5.6b:

 

A round of golf is meant to be played at a prompt pace.

 

Each player should recognize that his or her pace of play is likely to affect how long it will take other players to play their rounds, including both those in the player’s own group and those in following groups.

 

Players are encouraged to allow faster groups to play through.

 

In 2008 they clarified that single players are considered groups. I have to dig up the current definitions.

 

 

Starting to feel like players need some form of a license to golf.  99% of the guys out there have no clue, and it's ridiculous.

[zachillusions]

Some of these responses make me grateful I'm not a member at some of these clubs.

[2bGood]

35 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

 

Starting to feel like players need some form of a license to golf.  99% of the guys out there have no clue, and it's ridiculous.

Some countries/ ruling bodies do have this in place. 

[MountainKing]

1 minute ago, 2bGood said:

Some countries/ ruling bodies do have this in place. 

 

No kidding?  Where? 

[2bGood]

 

 

14 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

 

No kidding?  Where? 

 Netherlands for sure. They call it the GVB - Golfvaardigheidsbewijs (Golf Ability License) 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by 2bGood