Why are some people so bitter about letting a faster player play through?

[jdl]

7 hours ago, Kmagnuss said:

Sorry, I didn't see this question earlier.  I don't usually ask to play through... usually.  Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like it's a little rude to ask to play through.

I think you have your answer then. Many people these days are simply oblivious and if you asked you'd probably be able to play through most of the time.

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, david.c.w said:

 

 

 

Notice I said "generally".  At pretty much every golf course i have ever played, there are spots for 4 players at certain tee time.  95% of the time the course will do their best to fill all 4, especially during the current golf surge.  This goes for muni's and privates.   

This is not always the case for private clubs, especially the more exclusive ones. In fact some have pretty strict policies about NOT joining groups as a stranger

 

As for the OP, he should talk to the head pro or just learn to skip holes instead of griping about it on the internet. A fast single walker can at times get held up my two walkers in a cart, but can also impede them if they get in a bit of trouble on longer holes. We have an unwritten rule allows people out before our first official tee time, it's mostly singles and twosomes and the fast singles have no issue talking to the slower twosomes and working it out. It's typically the same handful of people, so really not that hard to establish a pecking order by pace of play

[sui generis]

10 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

 

 

 Netherlands for sure. They call it the GVB - Golfvaardigheidsbewijs

 

 

And, it once was so in Germany. Not sure about these days.

[Argonne69]

2 hours ago, 2bGood said:

I do not believe it is included in the current definitions, but it does not really matter, I think it clear they encourage allowing playing through. (why wouldn't they?)

 

Then RB's give guidance that the committee is to define groups as they see fit otherwise it is any size 1-infinity is consider a group.

 

The  authorised model local rules don't actually refer to playing through as an acceptable way for slow group to manage pace (section K). Not sure why?

 

It will be interesting to see if the RB's revise the view on singles given the single round handicap status. 

 

 

Not sure why not being able to post solo rounds would have impact on pace of play guidelines. If I'm out there by myself playing a paid round by the rules, I'm certainly not practicing. 

[Halebopp]

2 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

And, it once was so in Germany. Not sure about these days.

 

I feel rather safe in saying all of continental, western European countries require a golf license. 

[Ri_Redneck]

I typically ask to be paired with any threesome or less instead of playing alone. It keeps these types of situations from happening. If I DO have to play alone, it's because there's no one else to play with, and I can usually cruise along at my own pace. However, as soon as I see players ahead of me that I'm catching, I slow down. The truth is the single playing fast is the odd man on the course. Not the pace-setter.

 

BT

[MountainKing]

4 hours ago, 2bGood said:

 

 

 Netherlands for sure. They call it the GVB - Golfvaardigheidsbewijs (Golf Ability License) 

 

 

It would make sense, you need a license for other outdoor activities like hunting/fishing. 

 

Just came across this, personally I think it's brilliant and should be used here:

 

How do you play golf in Germany?

 

You have to pass driving, chipping and putting tests, and play 18 holes with no more than 108 strokes -- a stretch for a beginner. The whole process, including lessons, can cost around 2,000 marks ($870). Then there is a quiz on the rules and etiquette of golf.

[2bGood]

3 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Not sure why not being able to post solo rounds would have impact on pace of play guidelines. If I'm out there by myself playing a plaid round by the rules, I'm certainly not practicing. 

Not arguing, just looking for some interesting discussion....

 

The problem with your post is the ruling bodies have stated:

"For holes played alone (not accompanied), the player would treat these as not played under the Rules of Golf"

 

So given you plaid a round not under the rules of golf, why would you not consider it practice?

 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by 2bGood

[MtlJeff]

It seems like basic common sense to let someone play through if there is room ahead of you and they are noticeably faster. I don't care whether singles have "standing" or not---Are we all humans here just trying to get through the day and have a good time here or not? Just let them through

 

The only thing that grinds my gears a bit --Is when you play a scheduled 3PM round as a 4some, and then like 7 singles jump on the 10th hole after work just after you crossed over, and all want to play through. At that point it's like "Hey guys, join up--I'm not letting 6 straight singles through OK"

[Argonne69]

57 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

Not arguing, just looking for some interesting discussion....

 

The problem with your post is the ruling bodies have stated:

"For holes played alone (not accompanied), the player would treat these as not played under the Rules of Golf"

 

So given you plaid a round not under the rules of golf, why would you not consider it practice?

 

 

 

Umm, because I'm not practicing? 

 

Seriously, I'm trying to shoot my lowest score. I'm not playing two balls, taking mulligans, or giving myself three foot putts. 

 

To me the real question is why the ruling bodies think what I'm doing isn't real golf? I can't post it for handicap purposes, since I'm not "competing" with anyone, but a game of golf consists of getting the little white ball in the hole while playing by the rules. 

 

If I'm paired with a random stranger who's giving himself foot wedges and a dozen mulligans, we're not competing, but the RBs think that's real golf? 

 

Seems a bit odd that the ruling bodies would specifically state in 2008 that a single is considered a group, but then turn around and say that the single is not actually playing golf by the rules. 

 

Maybe I should take up fishing. Seems the ruling bodies of golf don't give two hoots about the thousands of single players out there that drop boatloads of money on rounds each year. Funny thing is, though, over 50% of the 200+ public courses in Chicagoland will give a single a tee time in an open four-slot. It sure seems the course owners/operators sure like us spending our money playing with a little white ball that isn't really golf. 

 

I teed off early yesterday morning as a single. There was a twosome on the teebox when I arrived. I asked them if I could join them, and they said that I should go ahead of them. No big deal. The course was wide open. I eventually saw a twosome ahead of me, but I never caught them. So what was I supposed to do? Stand around for an hour hoping someone would show up to play with? I've probably played 40 solo rounds this year in the early weekday mornings, so it's not like it's a rare occurrence. 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Argonne69

[sui generis]

24 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

For holes played alone (not accompanied), the player would treat these as not played under the Rules of Golf"

 

Not sure where 2b has fished that one up from. It's not in the Rules of Golf 2019. Might be buried in the Handicapping Manual somewhere. 😉

[Argonne69]

12 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

Not sure where 2b has fished that one up from. It's not in the Rules of Golf 2019. Might be buried in the Handicapping Manual somewhere. 😉

 

I'm guessing that the vast majority of players don't keep an official handicap, and rarely play in tournaments. At least in the U.S. Not sure why the Handicap Manual would have any significance for us mere hacks. 

 

[2bGood]

34 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Umm, because I'm not practicing? 

 

Seriously, I'm trying to shoot my lowest score. I'm not playing two balls, taking mulligans, or giving myself three foot putts. 

 

To me the real question is why the ruling bodies think what I'm doing isn't real golf? I can't post it for handicap purposes, since I'm not "competing" with anyone, but a game of golf consists of getting the little white ball in the hole while playing by the rules. 

 

If I'm paired with a random stranger who's giving himself foot wedges and a dozen mulligans, we're not competing, but the RBs think that's real golf? 

 

Seems a bit odd that the ruling bodies would specifically state in 2008 that a single is considered a group, but then turn around and say that the single is not actually playing golf by the rules. 

 

Maybe I should take up fishing. Seems the ruling bodies of golf don't give two hoots about the thousands of single players out there that drop boatloads of money on rounds each year. Funny thing is, though, over 50% of the 200+ public courses in Chicagoland will give a single a tee time in an open four-slot. It sure seems the course owners/operators sure like us spending our money playing with a little white ball that isn't really golf. 

 

I teed off early yesterday morning as a single. There was a twosome on the teebox when I arrived. I asked them if I could join them, and they said that I should go ahead of them. No big deal. The course was wide open. I eventually saw a twosome ahead of me, but I never caught them. So what was I supposed to do? Stand around for an hour hoping someone would show up to play with? I've probably played 40 solo rounds this year in the early weekday mornings, so it's not like it's a rare occurrence. 

 

I think you get the point I was making in 2008 they recognised singles and gave them standing in 2016 they made the illegitimate under the rules. So my question is will the pace policy be revisited? I know the history and politics of both these changes and allot of it has to do with competing interests and culture of the RB's. 

 

I think this line of discussion started with me pointing out that our committee does not give singles standing at our course. This is as much about that our clubs view is that playing with other members is the culture we encourage, but also that all member are expected to play each round under the ROG and post each acceptable round. Given solo rounds are not considered as being played under the ROG, we view this as using the course for practice. If all the range stall are in use we ask people practicing to move aside for those warming up, singles on the course are seen in the same light. 

 

As for the is it really golf or not debate. It does not really matter. The vast majority of golf is played is for fun and the rules are not observed. I just happen to golf in a bubble where the ROG are somewhat sacred. 

[Argonne69]

Pace of play guidelines have nothing to do with handicapping. Singles might be "illegitimate" for handicap purposes, but that doesn't change the way they're treated under the rules of golf. 

 

I don't disagree that there appears to be two waring camps in the ruling bodies. One half wants to grow the game, which includes encouraging singles, while the other half wants singles to simply go away. 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Argonne69

[2bGood]

4 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

I'm guessing that the vast majority of players don't keep an official handicap, and rarely play in tournaments. At least in the U.S. Not sure why the Handicap Manual would have any significance for us mere hacks. 

 

Yes you are correct. But hey were are in the rules forum - this is place for us those of us that have read it all and can even remember some of it.

 

FYI I am certainly not projecting it in this thread, but I am actually a go golf and be happy guy and play by the rules you want as long as you respect the course and your fellow golfers. I only care about the letter of the rules when it comes to those who want to compete in organised events. 

[MountainKing]

25 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

Pace of play guidelines have nothing to do with handicapping. Singles might be "illegitimate" for handicap purposes, but that doesn't change the way they're treated under the rules of golf. 

 

I don't disagree that there appears to be two waring camps in the ruling bodies. One half wants to grow the game, which includes encouraging singles, while the other half wants singles to simply go away. 

 

 

Stop responding,  you're not playing real golf and have no standing in this thread. 

[bekgolf]

3 hours ago, MountainKing said:

 

It would make sense, you need a license for other outdoor activities like hunting/fishing. 

 

Just came across this, personally I think it's brilliant and should be used here:

 

How do you play golf in Germany?

 

The whole process, including lessons, can cost around 2,000 marks ($870). Then there is a quiz on the rules and etiquette of golf.

 

 

This must be a little old as Germany went to the Euro quite some time ago.

 

FWIW we were in Switzerland a few years ago and they mentioned the golf classes needed before being allowed to golf.  This was just mentioned in passing as we drove by a beautiful course in the Alps, we weren't there to golf.

[GaHack1]

Singles aren't supposed to post scores because there is no one to attest to the score.  Letting singles and twosomes through is fine but at our course sometimes it's one twosome or single behind another. Our foursome tees off at 8:00 am on Saturday if there are three of four twosomes and singles behind us letting them all through will slow us down considerably. My opinion is that the course shouldn't let singles out when the course is busy, they should pair them up with others.

[JJFWebster]

I let singles play up on a hole and play through. Only time I see them on my course is late afternoon/evening and they are usually trying to rip 18 in less than 2 hours. 

[bobfoster]

If someone wants to play through - I'm totally fine. In fact, if there's no one in front of me and there's a single consistently waiting behind me that is too polite to ask, I'll invite him. 

 

There's a small number of things that bother me on golf courses. That definitely isn't one of them. 

Edited September 4, 2021 by bobfoster

[naval2006]

On 8/30/2021 at 2:02 PM, 2bGood said:

I agree I think it would be arrgogant for a player practicing to get in the way of a match.

 

At our course if you are practicing on the course you are expected to keep out of the way. 

On tournament days competitors always have priority.  On any normal weekday, if there's a golfer on their own most people will let them through, save a bunch  of cranky old guys who will only do it over their graves.  

[dubbelbogey]

On 8/31/2021 at 8:56 PM, GaHack1 said:

Singles aren't supposed to post scores because there is no one to attest to the score.  Letting singles and twosomes through is fine but at our course sometimes it's one twosome or single behind another. Our foursome tees off at 8:00 am on Saturday if there are three of four twosomes and singles behind us letting them all through will slow us down considerably. My opinion is that the course shouldn't let singles out when the course is busy, they should pair them up with others.

There is no USGA requirement (club rules may differ, I guess) that rounds posted must have the score attested. The only requirement is that somebody accompany you during your round. It can be a stranger, your non-playing spouse or your child. How this makes it any more "legitimate" than a solo round is beyond me. But I didn't make the rule.

 

The so-called logic behind this is that someone, if they wanted, could contact said accompanying parties to verify the round. Yeah - that sounds entirely realistic (heavy sarcasm). Especially for those of us who play in public golf as a single paired with strangers. So here's the scenario: some person questioning your scores somehow manages to get the club pro to call whatever course you played on such-and-such date to ask who you were paired with. And then either give you their contact information (likely against the law) or have them call those parties and ask them if they think your score is legitimate? I'd imagine most courses receiving this request would likely laugh and hang up the phone. But taking this to the logical conclusion, your former playing partners are likely to not even remember your name, and there's a 99.99% certainty they don't know your score within 10 strokes. 

[Naptime]

If the course is wide open and u are "practicing" why not skip a hole without disturbing them?  You won't be posting a solo score anyway.

[GaHack1]

On 9/7/2021 at 1:10 PM, dubbelbogey said:

There is no USGA requirement (club rules may differ, I guess) that rounds posted must have the score attested. The only requirement is that somebody accompany you during your round. It can be a stranger, your non-playing spouse or your child. How this makes it any more "legitimate" than a solo round is beyond me. But I didn't make the rule.

 

The so-called logic behind this is that someone, if they wanted, could contact said accompanying parties to verify the round. Yeah - that sounds entirely realistic (heavy sarcasm). Especially for those of us who play in public golf as a single paired with strangers. So here's the scenario: some person questioning your scores somehow manages to get the club pro to call whatever course you played on such-and-such date to ask who you were paired with. And then either give you their contact information (likely against the law) or have them call those parties and ask them if they think your score is legitimate? I'd imagine most courses receiving this request would likely laugh and hang up the phone. But taking this to the logical conclusion, your former playing partners are likely to not even remember your name, and there's a 99.99% certainty they don't know your score within 10 strokes. 

The verification of a player’s score. This can be evidenced in two ways:

By a marker’s physical signature or electronic certification, and/or

Through peer review.

 

Peer review is normally conducted by someone:

• Playing in the same group or who was present during the round, and/or
• Who is a member of the same golf club as the player.

In all cases, it must be someone who:

• Has formed a reasonable basis from which to provide support for a score that has been posted or challenge the player on any anomalies in the posted score, or
• Has knowledge of the player’s demonstrated ability and can reasonably verify or challenge the Handicap Index issued to the player.

Challenges or disputes should be raised with the player and/or reported to the Handicap Committee for consideration.

[596]

On 8/30/2021 at 2:04 PM, MPAndreassi said:

Mine is the same way. Singles have no rights, basically. Whether right or wrong, that’s just the way it is. You shouldn’t be posting scores for solo rounds and that’s where it stems from.   

Let me understand...

 

I'm a single , can't post a score apparently, I walk up behind your group with open holes ahead, you ask me if I'm gonna post my score, I say no, so you don't let me through, since I'm "only" practicing?  

 

[Argonne69]

8 hours ago, 596 said:

Let me understand...

 

I'm a single , can't post a score apparently, I walk up behind your group with open holes ahead, you ask me if I'm gonna post my score, I say no, so you don't let me through, since I'm "only" practicing?  

 

 

And then you stand there with your hands on your hips in the fairway and teebox waiting on every shot? Who the heck wants a single on their tail for an entire round? 

 

'Just let the single play through. The single will be out of your hair in a couple of minutes.

 

The whole "singles have no priority" was a thing for years before it was changed in the early 2000's, whereas the change to forbid a single from posting scores was introduced only a few years ago. So, no, that's not where it stems from.

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Argonne69

[JimmyC59]

• ules of Golf and Etiquette

Why are some people so bitter about letting a faster player play through?

Same reason they won't pull over and let you pass on the highway.

Insults their manhood.

[DLiver]

I haven't read the entire thread, but one thing no one seems to mention is that allowing players to play through slows YOU down. Having said that, if there are holes open, you need to let faster players through. Mostly. Let me explain.

 

I often play with a foursome of 2-4 HCs--good sticks. We have great matches, with the best ball usually being under par. We would tee off around 1pm when the course was somewhat empty, and we would invariably be caught by a succession of twosomes in carts running up our butts. We learned quickly that if we let every one of these folks through immediately, it would make our round 20-45 minutes longer (we are four walkers, usually playing in 3:40-3:50. It was quite a conundrum for us. Eventually we decided to let people through, but not immediately. We discussed it at length, and concluded that letting everyone play through right away wasn't fair to us, and letting no one play through wasn't right either. Tough call for sure.

[dvq9654]

Personally, I can't stand it when someone is behind me and clearly playing faster than me. It stresses me out and makes me feel like I need to play faster, even if I'm playing plenty fast. As a result, if there is space in front of me, I will let anyone play through. 

 

As for why people don't let others play through, there are many reason:

 

1) Lack of awareness of what proper pace of play is

2) Ego 

3) Perception that playing through somehow disadvantages them personally

4) An understanding that the person playing through would have nowhere to go 

 

Unfortunately, I think it's more likely to be 1-3 vs. 4. 

[Mcgeeno]

Its mostly male ego with a little bit of cluelessness sprinkled in. 

 

I've noticed over the years that nobody who is really slow ever really wants to admit they are slow. 

 

Our foursome was waiting on every single shot a couple weeks back at our home course and these four dudes in front kept repeating how they were sorry and there is nowhere to go and its the group in front...Who were 2 holes ahead by the 8th tee box. Sorry fellas...Its you guys. You guys are slow. One guy was taking FIVE practice swings before duffing it each shot.