Whats the hardest course you have ever played?

[ode]

And my home course is the hardest when the wind blows 40mph, with a hard rain, and it's  39* 🙄

[ode]

On 9/11/2021 at 11:47 PM, A.Princey said:

Greywalls at Marquette, 144 slope.

That would be #3 for me!

[Maroon_19]

Wolf Creek in Mesquite, NV.  Have played it four times now.  The last time was October, 2020.  Swore I'd never go back.  Seemed like we were out there for weeks.

Crazy beautiful golf course that everyone should play once, but it is just off the charts in difficulty.

 

The Dye Course at French Lick is the hardest "fair" golf course I've ever played.  Truly a mind-f for the eyes.  A great caddy would help get you through the 18.  If you are on your own, and don't know the aiming points... good luck 🙂

[jjthomp2]

I've enjoyed reading these posts so far.

 

My list is as follows (the first 3 you could swap out given the weather/conditions)

 

1. The Concession - I was in awe watching some of the tour guys eat that place up. If you don't have a stellar short game it'll be a looong day for you. No desire to play it again.

 

2. The Dye Course at French Lick - granted we did not have a caddy in our group but I found the course to be ridiculous at best. Will never venture up there to play that again.

 

3. Wolf Run (Sadly NLE) - this course was stellar unfortunately it didn't make it. It was so demanding on every aspect of your game. If i recall 13 was a roughly 200 yard par 3 with more bunkers than you could imagine and if you went long it had a massive run off to a collection area down the hill. I saw more over and backs on that green than i care to remember. Would definitely play again if it was still around.

 

4. Bethpage Black - We decided to play there from the tips. I can honestly say this is the first course I've ever played where it is a 1 shot penalty just for missing the fairway on your tee shot. It was impossible to advance the ball more than 100 yards from it. Hole #13 I hit a great drive center fairway, 3 wood and STILL had 180 yards in! Crazy stuff! Would definitely play again.

 

5. Prairie Dunes - Is it ever not windy there? Holy smokes. That is a taxing round. I think you need at least 36 holes out there to appreciate what you're taking in. Somehow it always felt like we were into the wind and never had any help? Don't know if anyone else experienced that but wow. Would like to play there again, maybe one of the most obscure locations to travel to though.

 

 

[CDM]

On 9/15/2021 at 11:38 AM, jjthomp2 said:

I've enjoyed reading these posts so far.

 

My list is as follows (the first 3 you could swap out given the weather/conditions)

 

1. The Concession - I was in awe watching some of the tour guys eat that place up. If you don't have a stellar short game it'll be a looong day for you. No desire to play it again.

 

2. The Dye Course at French Lick - granted we did not have a caddy in our group but I found the course to be ridiculous at best. Will never venture up there to play that again.

 

3. Wolf Run (Sadly NLE) - this course was stellar unfortunately it didn't make it. It was so demanding on every aspect of your game. If i recall 13 was a roughly 200 yard par 3 with more bunkers than you could imagine and if you went long it had a massive run off to a collection area down the hill. I saw more over and backs on that green than i care to remember. Would definitely play again if it was still around.

 

4. Bethpage Black - We decided to play there from the tips. I can honestly say this is the first course I've ever played where it is a 1 shot penalty just for missing the fairway on your tee shot. It was impossible to advance the ball more than 100 yards from it. Hole #13 I hit a great drive center fairway, 3 wood and STILL had 180 yards in! Crazy stuff! Would definitely play again.

 

5. Prairie Dunes - Is it ever not windy there? Holy smokes. That is a taxing round. I think you need at least 36 holes out there to appreciate what you're taking in. Somehow it always felt like we were into the wind and never had any help? Don't know if anyone else experienced that but wow. Would like to play there again, maybe one of the most obscure locations to travel to though.

 

 

 

Wind plays a huge part to PD, besides those fun greens.   

 

6 holes you can score on, 6 holes you are shooting for par,  6 holes your crossing you fingers based on wind.  

 

Spot on statement though you really have to play it a few times to really appreciate what your taking in.   Someone called it "Definitely Old School".... Its not a bombers course like modern designs but it is long enough even without wind. Greens that take thought. You have to think your way around it, backwards....Green to Tee each hole.... plus the "gunch" will eat you alive 😃

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by CDM

[Drwoods2017]

My answer is The straits at Whistling Straits for sure.  Super long and played it the end of September.  I remember hitting 3 woods and 3 iron into multiple par 4's and I'm not a short hitter.  Light mist and wind made it even worse.  Still a great course though and a ton of fun.  The ocean course I found to be fairly manageable but I could see when the wind gets up it being impossible (especially the final 5 holes).

[Primo1868]

Pete dye GC of WV. Couldn’t imagine playing it from the UWV tees…

[YMark]

On 9/15/2021 at 7:40 AM, Maroon_19 said:

Wolf Creek in Mesquite, NV.  Have played it four times now.  The last time was October, 2020.  Swore I'd never go back.  Seemed like we were out there for weeks.

 

I don't get the love for this course. I played it once and didn't find it all that hard, just gimmicky. And 5 hour rounds because there's so many blind shots that you're looking for balls. Don't know why I'd play it again, but I would play Conestoga again.

[Maroon_19]

18 hours ago, YMark said:

 

I don't get the love for this course. I played it once and didn't find it all that hard, just gimmicky. And 5 hour rounds because there's so many blind shots that you're looking for balls. Don't know why I'd play it again, but I would play Conestoga again.

Conestoga is one of my very favorite courses.  

[PixlPutterman]

On 9/22/2021 at 11:10 AM, Maroon_19 said:

Conestoga is one of my very favorite courses.  

That's in my short list to play

[Chanceman]

On 9/9/2021 at 3:24 PM, italianstallion said:

Nobody asked for a list but I’ll give it anyway: 
 

1. Bethpage Black - I’ve been lucky enough to have played quite a few US Open venues. They all brag about being impossible but truthfully most can be handled with proper course management. Bethpage cannot. It’s brutally long, the rough is brutally sticky, the bunkers give brutal lies, and it’s a brutal walk. I’ve played it the most of any course on this list and even with all the knowledge I have of the place in the end it means nothing out there. Add in any sort of wind and I wish you good day sir. 
 

2. The Ocean Course - Played it once in late December. High was 45* and the wind was blowing a steady 20 mph out of the northeast. Downwind holes weren’t so bad, but the holes into the wind felt impossible. Fantastic golf course. 
 

3. Oakmont - Whereas Bethpage beats you down with long tee shots and approach shots, Oakmont offers variety in its challenge. There are plenty of difficult tee shots out there for sure, but proper course management off the tee can save you strokes. Full attention must be paid anywhere near the greens, and you must avoid missing them at all costs. 
 

4. TPC Sawgrass - The greatest mental crucible of a course I have ever played. The first time I played I ripped driver everywhere en-route to a 92. The next time I hit driver on only a handful of holes and shot 78. Better to play to the larger portions of the fairways and leave longer approaches in than to try and overpower this course. 
 

5. Kapalua Plantation - Put this course anywhere else and you’d be dissatisfied with anything other than your career best. But the views are infinitely distracting and the wind is infinitely unrelenting, so it gets an honorable mention on this list. 

Never played BPB although I did get on the Red a while back which is a testing enough track. But re the Black if you were somehow able to hit straight balls all the time say 220 yard drives and 160 yard 5 irons would it be so hard? In other words if you avoid the rough and the bunkers are you home free? I get that most of the greens are elevated way up there and need solid wedges but really where is the drama? Certainly not trying to minimize the "danger" just interested in the actual design and how it affects a low/mid handicappper. 

[mci711]

2 hours ago, Chanceman said:

Never played BPB although I did get on the Red a while back which is a testing enough track. But re the Black if you were somehow able to hit straight balls all the time say 220 yard drives and 160 yard 5 irons would it be so hard? In other words if you avoid the rough and the bunkers are you home free? I get that most of the greens are elevated way up there and need solid wedges but really where is the drama? Certainly not trying to minimize the "danger" just interested in the actual design and how it affects a low/mid handicappper. 

 

I drove the ball great at BPB and didn't think the course played all that hard. But the greens are also pretty small it isn't just rough and distance. I had 2 doubles 2 bogies and a birdie for a 5 over. At the time I was about a 4, so that was a really good score at a course like that. 

[italianstallion]

4 hours ago, Chanceman said:

Never played BPB although I did get on the Red a while back which is a testing enough track. But re the Black if you were somehow able to hit straight balls all the time say 220 yard drives and 160 yard 5 irons would it be so hard? In other words if you avoid the rough and the bunkers are you home free? I get that most of the greens are elevated way up there and need solid wedges but really where is the drama? Certainly not trying to minimize the "danger" just interested in the actual design and how it affects a low/mid handicappper. 

 

 

I have and will always concede that the course design itself is not all the interesting: its all right in front of you. Because of that there are no favorable swales or bounces a slightly mishit ball can take. You either hit your spot or you don't, and when you don't the course has a tendency to bite hard.

 

Most people play the Black course from the blue tees (the daily play 'back tees') which set the course up at 6600-6700 yards. From those tees the course is manageable and your low/mid handicapper can get around fine with a straight tee ball (although 220 yard drives and 160 yard 5 irons still won't cut it). But when you venture back to where they don't put the tee markers and play it at anything over 7000 yards that's where the real challenge is. Just look at the winning scores over the years there: 2002 US open (-3 won with only 1 player under par), 2009 US Open (-4 won with only 5 players under par), 2012 Barclays (-10), 2016 Barclays (-9), 2019 PGA (-8 won with 16 players under par). Compare those Barclays and PGA scores to the scores at the other venues that host those events and you'll see just how difficult this course is even when its not set up like a circus. 

 

[Chanceman]

10 hours ago, italianstallion said:

 

 

I have and will always concede that the course design itself is not all the interesting: its all right in front of you. Because of that there are no favorable swales or bounces a slightly mishit ball can take. You either hit your spot or you don't, and when you don't the course has a tendency to bite hard.

 

Most people play the Black course from the blue tees (the daily play 'back tees') which set the course up at 6600-6700 yards. From those tees the course is manageable and your low/mid handicapper can get around fine with a straight tee ball (although 220 yard drives and 160 yard 5 irons still won't cut it). But when you venture back to where they don't put the tee markers and play it at anything over 7000 yards that's where the real challenge is. Just look at the winning scores over the years there: 2002 US open (-3 won with only 1 player under par), 2009 US Open (-4 won with only 5 players under par), 2012 Barclays (-10), 2016 Barclays (-9), 2019 PGA (-8 won with 16 players under par). Compare those Barclays and PGA scores to the scores at the other venues that host those events and you'll see just how difficult this course is even when its not set up like a circus. 

 

 Very interesting. The carries from the tee must be long which I always think it’s a foolish idea. What does it achieve? Proves to short hitters that they are short hitters? And slows down the field. Alister Mackenzie was always against it which is good enough for me. Look at Augusta where you mostly hit across perfect grass from the tee.

[pb_n_joe]

14 hours ago, italianstallion said:

 

 

I have and will always concede that the course design itself is not all the interesting: its all right in front of you. Because of that there are no favorable swales or bounces a slightly mishit ball can take. You either hit your spot or you don't, and when you don't the course has a tendency to bite hard.

 

Most people play the Black course from the blue tees (the daily play 'back tees') which set the course up at 6600-6700 yards. From those tees the course is manageable and your low/mid handicapper can get around fine with a straight tee ball (although 220 yard drives and 160 yard 5 irons still won't cut it). But when you venture back to where they don't put the tee markers and play it at anything over 7000 yards that's where the real challenge is. Just look at the winning scores over the years there: 2002 US open (-3 won with only 1 player under par), 2009 US Open (-4 won with only 5 players under par), 2012 Barclays (-10), 2016 Barclays (-9), 2019 PGA (-8 won with 16 players under par). Compare those Barclays and PGA scores to the scores at the other venues that host those events and you'll see just how difficult this course is even when its not set up like a circus. 

 

+1 for Bethpage Black. Played it for the first time this summer in an amateur tournament sanctioned by the Long Island Golf Association, and could not believe how difficult it was. Tees weren't set up all the way back on every hole, mix of white and blue, probably played ~7200 yards which is plenty long to get the full experience. Winning score for 36 holes was +4 and there was 1 round under par for the tournament.

 

Agree it's not the most dynamic from a design perspective - they just threw in every possible way to make a golf course difficult. Forced carries over doglegs and bunkers to narrow fairways sometimes angled at 45*, sticky juicy rough that basically serves as a 1 stroke penalty, small elevated greens surrounded by deep bunkers, massive elevation changes / hills (apparently a lot of people quit once they see the climb up to 15 green). I cannot even fathom the brutality of BPB in US Open conditions with long rough and fast hard greens. Fuggetaboutittttt

 

Would love to experience Oakmont at some point. Friend who played in the 2003 US Am at Oakmont said it was the hardest course he had ever played.

[italianstallion]

12 hours ago, Chanceman said:

 Very interesting. The carries from the tee must be long which I always think it’s a foolish idea. What does it achieve? Proves to short hitters that they are short hitters? And slows down the field. Alister Mackenzie was always against it which is good enough for me. Look at Augusta where you mostly hit across perfect grass from the tee.

 

It achieves the objective of being hard. Everyone sees that sign on the first tee and thinks "Oh what a cute little tongue in cheek novelty." But in reality the course was not and is not meant to be played by golfers of all abilities. Just because its a golf course doesn't mean golfers of all skill levels are entitled to enjoy it. I wouldn't call the Freerider route on El Capitan "foolish" because 99.9% of the world (including myself) can't do it. Its a challenge designed only for the right demographic of people.

[razor_1]

Course designed by Von Hagge/ Bruce Devlin in Panama City, FL was the single, hardest course I have ever played.  It has been plowed under and redesigned by Nicklaus.   It was hard because it was so tricked up and the wind off the gulf blows all the time.

 

Oakmont is probably the toughest test of real golf I've ever played.  Pinehurst #2 is not far behind it.  That course can subtly eat your lunch.

[razor_1]

5 minutes ago, razor_1 said:

Course designed by Von Hagge/ Bruce Devlin in Panama City, FL was the single, hardest course I have ever played.  It has been plowed under and redesigned by Nicklaus.   It was hard because it was so tricked up and the wind off the gulf blows all the time.

 

Oakmont is probably the toughest test of real golf I've ever played.  Pinehurst #2 is not far behind it.  That course can subtly eat your lunch.

Lagoon Legend...saw it in another post.  Crazy hard golf course.  Very penal.

[jibbs1082]

1.  Wannamoisett home of the NE Am...without a doubt. Insanely long par 4s and nasty rough. Par 68 is incredibly deceiving.

2. Bethpage Black... but probably because it was 105 degrees and insanely humid.

3. Merion... but is actually pretty playable in the middle of the course

4. Rolling Green GC.... just super hard to score unless you have a nasty short game

5. Galloway National

 

 

 

 

[Raz1374]

1. Bethpage Black- hard most days. Depends on how long since rough was clipped (cut is being generous).  There are a few scoring holes you HAVE to do well on because somewhere along the way, you’ll hit one offline (even a little) and will pay.
2. Ocean Course- with wind. You have to be on your game to score well there. 
3. Carnoustie- breezy or worse. Like the previous 2 above, you better strike it solid and know where you can miss.
4. TPC Sawgrass- 2 weeks before Tiger won US Am. Rough was beyond brutal. The Bermuda just dropped the ball down. 

[goduke7]

Years ago we played BPB from the "plaques". The first 6 aren't that bad. Then you're looking at alot of 250+ carries just to make the fairway or clear bunkers. I hit the drive of my life on 12, barely carried the bunker and still had 190 in. Have yet to play a course that penalizes just missing a drive as bad. The red is a walk in the park compared. 

 

Having just come back from the Ryder Cup- Straits is not a course I'd want to play with 20+ mph winds. Hole 7 on Thursday was 220 into a 30+mph wind with no bail out...what in gods green earth do us mere mortals hit there? 

[T-MAC]

Kiawah Ocean course.  I've been there 3 times and barely break 90.  I'm around a 7 HCP.
Doesn't help that it's been pretty breezy every time I've been there.  😞

[sheppy335]

Oakmont Country Club 

[Schley]

On 9/8/2021 at 8:15 PM, Obee said:

Two courses, one a legitimately difficult course, and the other super tough for one tournament a year.

• Bear Creek Golf Club in Murrieta, CA (7,190, 75.9/149)
  • Was my home course for nine years
  • From November to March, greens would run 13 to 14 and certain days would be rock hard. Couldn't find a pitch mark with a full wedge
  • Afternoon winds and dormant Bermuda fairways combined with spotty surrounds made for an adventure.
  • Played with Mickelson there when he was still top 20 in the world and he shot 70, 71.
  • Course plays so tough for a portion of the year that 8 - 10 handicappers can have trouble keeping their score in the 90's from the 6,450 yard tees! (71.8/138).
• Lakeside Golf Club in Burbank, CA for The Kelly Cup
  • Once a year, Lakeside becomes a mini U.S. Open
  • Par of 70 with only 2 par 5's, one of them unreachable at 575 except for the very longest of legit bombers
  • Rough grown thick and long -- heavy over-seeded rye that is sticky and nasty
  • Some of the smallest greens in the world (at least until they reclaimed lost green space a few years back)
  • 12.5 to 13 speed and firm
  • Pins tucked in the nastiest of places
  • Probably plays to a rating of 77ish for the tournament, par 70
  • 4 and 5 index golfers regularly shoot mid to high 80's to mid 90's.
  • Typically 40ish scratch/below golfers in the field. Usually 1 person will break par -- in one round -- for the entire tournament
• Honorable Mentions:
  • Any Bandon course when it is blowing 25 sustained, gusting to 50+
  • This course here when it's windy: https://www.amateurgolf.com/golf-tournament-news/27542/Gale-force-winds--WDs--and-a-12-putt--the-story-of-the-SCGA-TOC

Yes definitely agree with Bear Creek, it is full on Nicklaus when he was all about TOUGH! His use of bunkering just makes it a tough slog IMO. They could cut the rough there down and it would be more enjoyable IMO for mortals like me.

On 9/6/2021 at 4:46 AM, phizzy30 said:

Lost Canyons.  Now closed but when they were open to the public, it was the hardest course I've ever played.  If I remember correctly, the slope was high 130's.  It was target golf where you would have to carry the trouble off the tee, then again from the fairway/rough into small greens.  I lost almost a box of balls that day.  The rest of the day was a blur. 

I loved both Lost Canyons courses. The Sky and I forget the other. One was Dye the other was Couples. Very beautiful and peaceful out there as it was remote without housing on the course. Very tough as the wind usually blew all the time. Great range btw.

On 9/8/2021 at 9:29 PM, ThinkingPlus said:

 

Other course was Redhawk in Temecula, CA (Men's 73.3/139, Women's 79/140).  Can't remember what I shot, but don't think I broke 80.  Lots of elevated, fast greens with deep bunkers.

 

In both cases I had to calculate the women's ratings and slope using the USGA lookup table method to compensate for the additional length beyond the closest tees rated for women.  The slope at Redhawk didn't seem reasonable given only a 1 point difference vs. the men's slope, but that was how the calcs came out.

Redhawk is a tough course as it's tight through a neighborhood. Lived in the area for 10 years. It certainly was the toughest in the area next to Bear Creek.

[Schley]

My own list is short. Royal County Down

 

It is just too tough for the average golfer IMO. Gorse everywhere and with a caddie I lost probably 12 or more balls. The wind makes it multiples harder than the yardage, when you combine the accuracy needed. Who am I to say anything bad about RCD other than it is nuts hard. Honestly I didn't enjoy it and wanted to, was miserable after realizing the game is too tough for what I can do there.

[davep043]

Ko'olau on Oahu, Carnoustie, both head and shoulders harder than anything else I've played.

[texas_tom]

Black Wolf Run in Kohler. Forced carries were like 240 to get to the fairways. Absolute beast (BI$%^)

[DonatelloNobodie]

The Shattuck in Jaffrey, NH.  Beautiful setting. Impossible from the tips, although not long.  Target golf through swampland.

[YMark]

On 9/30/2021 at 8:11 PM, T-MAC said:

Kiawah Ocean course.  I've been there 3 times and barely break 90.  I'm around a 7 HCP.
Doesn't help that it's been pretty breezy every time I've been there.  😞

 

I'm currently a 7.3 and am playing there in a February tournament. Looks like I'll have my work cut out for me. 

[ColinKelvin]

Pinehurst #2.  I found it very very hard to keep approaches (and sometimes even chips) on the greens - the landing areas are so small and the greens when I played it were hard as a rock.  It's a great experience and I'd go back in a shot, but it was much harder than other major venues I have played, including Muirfield and Troon.