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Anyone Have An Idea of What TM’s Driver Plans Are for 2022?


BCC1898

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I'm a Manufacturing Engineer in the aerospace/defense industry.    Pricing has increased for pretty much all materials and lead times have gone up even for domestic materials.    

 

Also if/when the government mandates vaccinations it will probably get worse.    Not saying I'm for or against getting vaccinated in any way.    Just stating it will definitely have an effect.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Gorham1 said:

Very little titanium in the SIM2.  Does not justify the expected price increase.

 

You said "Anything in increase in excess of 10% is price gouging".

 

Do you have any expertise in retail or a university degree in a related field to support your statement ? If so, let's hear why it's price gouging.

 

Or are you just upset ? :classic_blink:

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TM's plan for 2022?  Sell as many drivers as possible.  I loved the TaylorMade episode on Undercover Boss when Mark King  said,  "It's a difficult challenge for us to get a shrinking number of golfers to spend more money on a toy they don't really need."  I know Mark isn't with TM anymore, but that is what faces every manufacturer every year.

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1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

You said "Anything in increase in excess of 10% is price gouging".

 

Do you have any expertise in retail or a university degree in a related field to support your statement ? If so, let's hear why it's price gouging.

 

Or are you just upset ? :classic_blink:

Is your goal to be the most annoying person in EVERY thread???

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2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

You said "Anything in increase in excess of 10% is price gouging".

 

Do you have any expertise in retail or a university degree in a related field to support your statement ? If so, let's hear why it's price gouging.

 

Or are you just upset ? :classic_blink:

Just basing my assumptions on the U.S. government general inflation rate for 2021 of approx. 6%.

 

And yes, I am a CPA with a Masters Degree in Finance.  I have over 30 years of experience in senior level financial positions with Fortune 100 companies.  I hope that answers your question.  And yes, if indeed the price increase is 

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12 minutes ago, Gorham1 said:

Just basing my assumptions on the U.S. government general inflation rate for 2021 of approx. 6%.

 

And yes, I am a CPA with a Masters Degree in Finance.  I have over 30 years of experience in senior level financial positions with Fortune 100 companies.  I hope that answers your question.  And yes, if indeed the price increase is 

 

2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

You said "Anything in increase in excess of 10% is price gouging".

 

Do you have any expertise in retail or a university degree in a related field to support your statement ? If so, let's hear why it's price gouging.

 

Or are you just upset ? :classic_blink:

I have given you my background, let's hear yours.  I suspect you are one of these sales clerks at a local golf shop who thinks he is an expert is Supply Chain economics.

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Man. Calm down everyone. Save your anger/excitement for when we actually find out how much these will be. TM already squashed the price mentioned earlier. Good on them for not letting it get too crazy in here. 

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6 hours ago, BCC1898 said:

Is your goal to be the most annoying person in EVERY thread???

 

Didn't your 4th grade teacher ever tell you not to answer a question with a question ? (Oops :classic_laugh:)

 

P.S. You can always use the "ignore option". It actually works very well. 👍

Edited by nsxguy

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14 minutes ago, radiman said:

Man. Calm down everyone. Save your anger/excitement for when we actually find out how much these will be. TM already squashed the price mentioned earlier. Good on them for not letting it get too crazy in here. 

This is supposed to be a place for discussions related to a given topic.  I am on here to gain information others may know.  I welcome a healthy debate.  That is how we learn.  There are too many people on this forum who just think they have to respond to anything, even if they don't have a damn thing to say that is constructive or informative.  I will gladly calm down when these morons quit attacking me.  I am only giving my opinions and the assumptions used.

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7 hours ago, Gorham1 said:

Just basing my assumptions on the U.S. government general inflation rate for 2021 of approx. 6%.

 

And yes, I am a CPA with a Masters Degree in Finance.  I have over 30 years of experience in senior level financial positions with Fortune 100 companies.  I hope that answers your question.  And yes, if indeed the price increase is 

 

7 hours ago, Gorham1 said:

 

I have given you my background, let's hear yours.  I suspect you are one of these sales clerks at a local golf shop who thinks he is an expert is Supply Chain economics.

 

Impressive bona fides. Glad you've done so well.

 

You welcome debate until you get uncomfortable. Then you attack. With the familiar ad hominem tactic.

 

I didn't attack you. I commented on your post, 1 disagree and 1 agree, and later asked you a question.

 

Anywho, no, you didn't (really) answer my question. While I did ask your background that wasn't the actual question.

 

You said "Anything that increases in excess of 10% is price gouging".

 

I ended my question with "If so, let's hear why it's (10% increase) price gouging."

 

Although it seems you started to answer "And yes, if indeed the price increase is" - and then your keyboard failed. :classic_laugh:

 

So I guess the question is still unanswered. hide.gif

 

Edited by nsxguy
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31 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

Impressive bona fides. Glad you've do so well.

 

You welcome debate until you get uncomfortable. Then you attack. With the familiar ad hominem tactic.

 

I didn't attack you. I commented on your post, 1 disagree and 1 agree, and later asked you a question.

 

Anywho, no, you didn't (really) answer my question. While I did ask your background that wasn't the actual question.

 

You said "Anything that increases in excess of 10% is price gouging".

 

I ended my question with "If so, let's hear why it's (10% increase) price gouging."

 

Although it seems you started to answer "And yes, if indeed the price increase is" - and then your keyboard failed. :classic_laugh:

 

So I guess the question is still unanswered. hide.gif

 

When my keyboard failed I was saying if the price increase is $170 or 32%, then yes I am pissed.

 

TM (and other golf OEMs) have had 10%+ price increases over the past several years.  I am working off of memory, so excuse any errors.

 

Orig. M2   $299

M2    $349

M4    $399

M6    $449

SIM   $499

SIM2  $529

 

These increases were much higher than the general rate of inflation for these years (range of 1.5% to 3.0%).  Said another way, TM has been building their profit margins over this period of time.

 

The U.S. government has stated that the general rate of inflation is expected to be a little under 6% for 2021.  This general rate of inflation includes all materials, fuel, labor, etc. I do not know TMs specific cost structure, so I am somewhat speculating.  Much of their labor costs are in China/Asia.  I suspect China is not experiencing the labor increases we are seeing.

 

I highly doubt that TMs cost increases are anywhere close to the 32% as stated in the expected price increase.  I would expect TM to eat some of the cost increases to protect their customers.

 

So yes, I stand by my comment of anything over a 10% price increase is price gouging.  Remember, the 10% is almost double the general rate of inflation.

 

I welco9me any constructive discussions we can have.

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1 hour ago, Gorham1 said:

Just basing my assumptions on the U.S. government general inflation rate for 2021 of approx. 6%.

 

And yes, I am a CPA with a Masters Degree in Finance.  I have over 30 years of experience in senior level financial positions with Fortune 100 companies.  I hope that answers your question.  And yes, if indeed the price increase is 

 

PROVE IT!!!!! (just kidding)

 

1 hour ago, radiman said:

Man. Calm down everyone. Save your anger/excitement for when we actually find out how much these will be. TM already squashed the price mentioned earlier. Good on them for not letting it get too crazy in here. 

 

You dont know me. Dont tell me to calm down! (also, just kidding)

 

11 minutes ago, wcbjr said:

So how about that composite face?...Think it'll make it into production?

 

That is an excellent question. I really wonder how you make a composite face strong enough so that it the TM staffers dont cave it in every round. (OR so that all the 325 yard drivers here on GolfWRX dont cave it.) I assume they are going for something lighter than titanium to shift weight. I'm no materials specialist. What is lighter than titanium, strong enough to not shatter, AND resilient enough to not create a trampoline effect that would blow out COR max?

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2 minutes ago, blink3665 said:

That is an excellent question. I really wonder how you make a composite face strong enough so that it the TM staffers dont cave it in every round. (OR so that all the 325 yard drivers here on GolfWRX dont cave it.) I assume they are going for something lighter than titanium to shift weight. I'm no materials specialist. What is lighter than titanium, strong enough to not shatter, AND resilient enough to not create a trampoline effect that would blow out COR max?

I was looking at the patent yesterday.  It said something about the face being thicker.  Maybe the weight savings allows them to actually make it more durable than the thin metal faces they've been using.  

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6 minutes ago, Gorham1 said:

When my keyboard failed I was saying if the price increase is $170 or 32%, then yes I am pissed.

 

TM (and other golf OEMs) have had 10%+ price increases over the past several years.  I am working off of memory, so excuse any errors.

 

Orig. M2   $299

M2    $349

M4    $399

M6    $449

SIM   $499

SIM2  $529

 

These increases were much higher than the general rate of inflation for these years (range of 1.5% to 3.0%).  Said another way, TM has been building their profit margins over this period of time.

 

The U.S. government has stated that the general rate of inflation is expected to be a little under 6% for 2021.  This general rate of inflation includes all materials, fuel, labor, etc. I do not know TMs specific cost structure, so I am somewhat speculating.  Much of their labor costs are in China/Asia.  I suspect China is not experiencing the labor increases we are seeing.

 

I highly doubt that TMs cost increases are anywhere close to the 32% as stated in the expected price increase.  I would expect TM to eat some of the cost increases to protect their customers.

 

So yes, I stand by my comment of anything over a 10% price increase is price gouging.  Remember, the 10% is almost double the general rate of inflation.

 

I welco9me any constructive discussions we can have.

 

I have no dog in this fight, erm... discussion. However, I think people may be put off by your use of the term 'price gouging'. We are all now familiar with the term due to the run on supplies when COVID first hit. So, maybe use a different term? This is not price gouging.

 

I dunno. I certainly understand the frustration of a potential 30% increase in price. However, you keep beating a dead horse since TM themselves came in and said that there was misinformation floating around in the thread.

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11 minutes ago, blink3665 said:

 

I have no dog in this fight, erm... discussion. However, I think people may be put off by your use of the term 'price gouging'. We are all now familiar with the term due to the run on supplies when COVID first hit. So, maybe use a different term? This is not price gouging.

 

I dunno. I certainly understand the frustration of a potential 30% increase in price. However, you keep beating a dead horse since TM themselves came in and said that there was misinformation floating around in the thread.

Understood.  When people quit responding to this, I will drop it.  No problem.

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2 hours ago, radiman said:

Man. Calm down everyone. Save your anger/excitement for when we actually find out how much these will be. TM already squashed the price mentioned earlier. Good on them for not letting it get too crazy in here. 

That's because the price isn't going to be $800, it's going to be $799.99 HAHAHAAH🤣😎

I'm think actually it's probably going to be $599 or $649

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Just now, Str8Putt said:

That's because the price isn't going to be $800, it's going to be $799.99 HAHAHAAH🤣😎

I'm think actually it's probably going to be $599 or $649

That's kind of what I am mentally preparing myself for.  

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4 minutes ago, radiman said:

That's kind of what I am mentally preparing myself for.  

Much more than that it's really going to be a I think I'll wait moment

Titleist TSi3 is $549 and it sells so a jump to TM to $599 would suck but still think people would buy it.

$649 would probably be the casual golfers cut off point but the country club do well guys probably won't care.

I was looking to buy a TSi3, that kind of my breaking point, I would look at what TM has to offer. but $599 would be the most I'd ever pay for a driver. Won't lie with as many post as I've seen about broken TM drivers I probably would be a wait and see buyer for sure. 

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1 minute ago, Str8Putt said:

Much more than that it's really going to be a I think I'll wait moment

Titleist TSi3 is $549 and it sells so a jump to TM to $599 would suck but still think people would buy it.

$649 would probably be the casual golfers cut off point but the country club do well guys probably won't care.

I was looking to buy a TSi3, that kind of my breaking point, I would look at what TM has to offer. but $599 would be the most I'd ever pay for a driver. Won't lie with as many post as I've seen about broken TM drivers I probably would be a wait and see buyer for sure. 

If they land at $600, I do not think they will be alone at that price point.  I am assuming Callaway will be very similarly priced.  They may even be the ones to jump up to $650.  They haven't been too shy about getting aggressive with their prices. 

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Just now, radiman said:

If they land at $600, I do not think they will be alone at that price point.  I am assuming Callaway will be very similarly priced.  They may even be the ones to jump up to $650.  They haven't been too shy about getting aggressive with their prices. 

Agreed. I think most will jump to that price that are coming out, if Titleist brings one out, no doubt in my mind they're charging $650 if everyone charges $599.

 

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1 hour ago, blink3665 said:

That is an excellent question. I really wonder how you make a composite face strong enough so that it the TM staffers dont cave it in every round. (OR so that all the 325 yard drivers here on GolfWRX dont cave it.) I assume they are going for something lighter than titanium to shift weight. I'm no materials specialist. What is lighter than titanium, strong enough to not shatter, AND resilient enough to not create a trampoline effect that would blow out COR max?

 

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21 minutes ago, wcbjr said:

 

 

THAT looks like a massive COR issue. Graphite wouldnt be a tensile strength issue, I guess, but it could sure cause quite a trampoline effect. As stated previously, I have no idea what I'm talking about. Mostly just talking out of my butt. They can obviously do amazing things with carbon fiber and graphite.

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TXG recently stated that Titliest is going to have a 10% price increase. Glad I just bought my driver this fall. 

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