Anyone Have An Idea of What TM’s Driver Plans Are for 2022?

[johnnylongballz72]

I just spent the last 30 minutes reading through the previous pages in this thread..... Wow, what a roller coaster that was. lol 

 

I'm looking forward to the driver! Hope its good 

[nsxguy]

6 hours ago, Gorham1 said:

When my keyboard failed I was saying if the price increase is $170 or 32%, then yes I am pissed.

 

TM (and other golf OEMs) have had 10%+ price increases over the past several years.  I am working off of memory, so excuse any errors.

 

Orig. M2   $299

M2    $349

M4    $399

M6    $449

SIM   $499

SIM2  $529

 

These increases were much higher than the general rate of inflation for these years (range of 1.5% to 3.0%).  Said another way, TM has been building their profit margins over this period of time.

 

The U.S. government has stated that the general rate of inflation is expected to be a little under 6% for 2021.  This general rate of inflation includes all materials, fuel, labor, etc. I do not know TMs specific cost structure, so I am somewhat speculating.  Much of their labor costs are in China/Asia.  I suspect China is not experiencing the labor increases we are seeing.

 

I highly doubt that TMs cost increases are anywhere close to the 32% as stated in the expected price increase.  I would expect TM to eat some of the cost increases to protect their customers.

 

So yes, I stand by my comment of anything over a 10% price increase is price gouging.  Remember, the 10% is almost double the general rate of inflation.

 

I welcome any constructive discussions we can have.

 

OK, great. Let's have some constructive discussion without any name calling.

 

I would love to hear comments from someone who is clearly expert in these topics; keeping in mind that the author of this post has only a rudimentary knowledge of the financial world and nowhere near the experience you have in the field.

 

Firstly, this 32% number. Now I haven't re-read the first 10 pages all over again but I believe the the $800 figure was Canadian dollars. So the $170 difference you mention in this post would take the SIM2 from 529 to 699 (not 799). So that confuses me a bit. I'm guessing 32% is off the table at this point.

 

So now, this 10% inflation number. That would take the current 529 to 581. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised at 579-619, possibly even more.

 

But that aside, TM is a publicly held corporation, no ? The CEO and other officers are beholden ONLY to their stockholders, no ? So if sales are roughly the same and costs are roughly the same (unlikely as we know), then profits would be the same. Not so ?

 

And what corporate officers are going to please their stockholders with the same return year after year ? Not many, right ?

 

So if inflation goes up 6% they HAVE to increase their prices MORE than 6% to make more money and show larger returns to please their stockholders. And keep their jobs.

 

As you yourself pointed out earlier they raised prices every year even though inflation was little more than less flat. That was price gouging too ? Or was that just good business ?

 

Of course they have to please their customers as well, never mind their employees, who ALL want raises. Kind of a delicate balancing act, no ?

 

As for "price gouging",,,,,,, as mentioned by someone else I think that's not a great evaluation of the situation. As for a real life example I'll give you part of the Flori-duh's State's Attorney General's page on the subject.

 

Now of course they don't attach any hard numbers to it. "A price is presumed to be unconscionable if: (1) there is a gross disparity between the price charged during the state of emergency and the average price during the 30 days before the state of emergency or (2) the price grossly exceeds the average price the same or similar commodity was available in the trade area during the 30 days before the declaration of the state of emergency, unless the seller can justify the price by showing increases in its costs or market trends. Examples of necessary commodities for storm events are food, water, ice, gas, lodging and lumber"

 

Seems to me golf clubs wouldn't be included. And there's no "state of emergency" being discussed here either.

 

Now we could argue discuss it until the cows come home but I don't think 10%, "only" 4% higher than the 6% inflation rate would be considered "grossly exceeding the average/previous price".

 

Your thoughts ?

 

 

 

[cliffhanger]

Guess #1... Moveable weights make a comeback.

Guess #2... the SIM branding is going away.

Guess #3... higher retail price as we are hearing rumours from most OEM's. 

 

 

[Lemonde]

A lot of discussion on the potential for price gouging over what is ultimately a true discretionary purchase.  

[jwb10]

not a clue, you ?

[radiman]

Is there a way to disable notifications on a thread? I don’t want to think there’s new info on the subject but walk into another economics lesson. 

[Hatcher_J]

Same! It’s rough when you see this many pages. You get excited, thinking someone has some information or leaked a pic, but then you just see people trying to win a fight no one cares about. Smh

 

With that said, anyone have some solid info other than a speculated price or a pic of the clubs they want to leak? 😆

[taylorx300]

The last two years, ALL the big driver companies have talked about one thing - aerodynamics. Why? Because with the COR and CT rule in place since 2009, they have been battling the launch and spin numbers while chasing the unicorn 5900 MOI number. We have seen a lot of stuff change since ‘09, shapes, moving weights, materials, etc. Study most of the drivers built in the last 4 years and you will notice some kind of mass (weight) place all the way back from the face and in the lowest point on the driver. They know that works. Get the club to go through the are faster and you might change ball speed by club speed x smash.

My prediction is what I’ve heard previously is new materials. Graphene. Lighter and stronger than both titanium and carbon fiber by a lot. But cost will be an issue. 
Let’s all wait and see who brings it out first

[iNeedMoreGolf]

1 hour ago, johnnylongballz72 said:

I just spent the last 30 minutes reading through the previous pages in this thread..... Wow, what a roller coaster that was. lol 

 

I'm looking forward to the driver! Hope its good 

30 mins!! That would take me 30 days!

[grm24]

2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

But that aside, TM is a publicly held corporation, no ?

Pretty sure they aren't. Earlier this year TM was sold to another P/E fund in Korea. Same as they were in 2017 when Adidas initially sold TM.

[Anser3]

I remember thinking $400 for a driver was ridiculous for the TM R580 in 2003.  I was less than a year removed from college and was working.  I knew for sure I was buying custom fit Ping i3+ irons but i looked to save money elsewhere.  Retail on the Ping si3 driver was over $400 and the TM R580 stuff was $400.  So I bought a Tommy Armour 410 CC maximum COR driver at Dunhams's on sale for $100.  It was a piece of junk.  I somehow got $125 for it as a trade-in at the Golf Etc that was near me and put that towards a $300 Cobra ss427 (great club).  Now, fairway woods are $300.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Anser3

[grm24]

1 hour ago, Anser3 said:

I remember thinking $400 for a driver was ridiculous for the TM R580 in 2003.  I was less than a year removed from college and was working.  I knew for sure I was buying custom fit Ping i3+ irons but i looked to save money elsewhere.  Retail on the Ping si3 driver was over $400 and the TM R580 stuff was $400.  So I bought a Tommy Armour 410 CC maximum COR driver at Dunhams's on sale for $100.  It was a piece of junk.  I somehow got $125 for it as a trade-in at the Golf Etc that was near me and put that towards a $300 Cobra ss427 (great club).  Now, fairway woods are $300.

When the TM R510TP was released it sold for $600.00 or higher in 2003. With inflation factored in that's nearly equivalent to $900.00 today. As for some fairway wood prices today the Tour Edge Exotics CB1 and CB2 fairway woods retailed for $349.99 in 2004/2005. Everything old is new again. 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by grm24

[benclab]

1 hour ago, grm24 said:

When the TM R510TP was released it sold for $600.00 or higher in 2003. With inflation factored in that's nearly equivalent to $900.00 today. Are for fairway woods the Tour Edge Exotics CB1 and CB2 fairway woods retail for $349.99 in 2005.

 

 

 

I remember the Great Big Bertha and 975D in 1998 being 500 bucks. Tisi and Ti bubble 2 were 400 dollars. 600 dollars with 23 years of advancements in the head and shaft doesn't sound as bad when considering all that. 

[Golfingfanatic]

The Mizuno driver Vijay won the Masters with (I forget the name) was close to a 1000 dollars when it came out in 01.

[grm24]

19 minutes ago, Golfingfanatic said:

The Mizuno driver Vijay won the Masters with (I forget the name) was close to a 1000 dollars when it came out in 01.

Great recall. From a 2017 article. It was a Mizuno Pro 300S.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/vijay-singhs-driver-from-the-2000-masters-is-a-must-see

 

According to the PGA Value Guide, the club debuted at retail in 2001 and carried an initial MSRP of $900. The head was forged from four pieces of beta titanium—something that would not difficult to achieve today, but was considered cutting edge at the time. Unfortunately, all that technology means little today. The club’s trade-in value is pegged at a mere $14.

 

 

[grm24]

2 hours ago, benclab said:

I remember the Great Big Bertha and 975D in 1998 being 500 bucks. Tisi and Ti bubble 2 were 400 dollars. 600 dollars with 23 years of advancements in the head and shaft doesn't sound as bad when considering all that. 

 

Here is a great article from 1996 from the si.com vault on new fangled titanium drivers. Most people won't actually bother to read any of it since most people adults included today have the attention span of an eye blink. Even that might be overstating it. This article really should be read by many here. I won't hold my breath that anybody here actually takes the time to read it. Lots of good information in it. Shame the TL;DR crowd will ignore it. 🤣🤣🤣

 

https://vault.si.com/vault/1996/02/12/titanium-drivers-made-of-this-space-age-metal-may-be-more-accurate-and-longer-theyre-surely-costlier

 

A RAM driver available for $1,000.00 dollars. Wait what????? RAM at one time was a very respected OEM.

 

This barrier (sound) however, was broken quietly, indoors and without warning, when Ram Golf president Jim Hansberger--wearing a coat and tie instead of the traditional fireproof jumpsuit--introduced the Ram FX Ti-Forged oversize titanium driver. Suggested retail price: $1,000. Doh!

 

Think 46" driver lengths are a recent thing? Nope.

 

Over at Mizuno, on the other hand, engineers have joined an oversize titanium head to a daunting, 46-inch shaft and are pushing the proposition that titanium adds yards. "We're in the distance business," explains Mizuno club designer and PGA Tour player Harry Taylor. "If you want accuracy, take a short shaft and pop it down the fairway."

 

Here are some iron and driver prices from 1996. Enjoy.

 

DRIVERS*

Maruman Titus Titan $1,200
PRGR SD 1,050
Ram FX Ti-Forged 1,000
Mizuno T-Zoid 650
Echelon B2B 599
Callaway Great Big Bertha 500
Cleveland VAS 500
Confidence Golf 260 Ti 500
Dynacraft Super Ti 500
Nicklaus Air Bear 500
Gary Player Black Knight 499
Founders Club Judge 475
HOGAN Edge GCD 460
Rainbow Sealed Power 450
Rawlings FT-190 450
Yonex Super ADX 450
Lynx Black Cat 435
Adams Air Assault 420
Daiwa Exceler 415
Taylor Made Titanium Bubble 400
Kunnan EXT 395
Titleist SS Howitzer 375
Tommy Armour 855 Tommy Gun 375
Cobra King Cobra Ti 367
Pro Group PHD 360
Magique Gold Cactus 350
ryobi-Toski Czar 350
Cubic Balance Mega-Size Grooveless 330
Bridgestone Precept 299
Wilson Invex 299
MacGregor VIP 285
Spalding TF Intimidator 285
Mitsushiba MTS 259
Golfsmith Ti-250 250
Tiger Shark Ti Shark 250
Bullet Invincible Jumbo 225
Pro Select Prism 199
Powerbilt T-Minus 125

 

IRONS (Set of 8)*

Daiwa G-3 Titan $3,200
Maruman Titus WA-2 3,000
Ray Cook Titanic 1,672
Mizuno TI 22 1,665
Yonex Super ADX 1,600
ryobi-Toski Czar 1,500
Maruman M301 T 1,350
Rainbow Sealed Power Ti 1,200
Estusa Maverick 1,040
Rainbow Boomer Ti 960
Golfsmith Extreme Impact 840

 

The most prescient point from the end of the article is from Pings John Solheim. It so holds true today but it's lost on most golfers here and elsewhere. Let's leave him with the last word.

 

As Ping's John Solheim says, "The biggest technical innovation is to get a better golf swing."

 

Preach it.

Edited November 4, 2021 by grm24

[hammergolf]

1 hour ago, Golfingfanatic said:

The Mizuno driver Vijay won the Masters with (I forget the name) was close to a 1000 dollars when it came out in 01.

300s

[Gorham1]

8 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

OK, great. Let's have some constructive discussion without any name calling.

 

I would love to hear comments from someone who is clearly expert in these topics; keeping in mind that the author of this post has only a rudimentary knowledge of the financial world and nowhere near the experience you have in the field.

 

Firstly, this 32% number. Now I haven't re-read the first 10 pages all over again but I believe the the $800 figure was Canadian dollars. So the $170 difference you mention in this post would take the SIM2 from 529 to 699 (not 799). So that confuses me a bit. I'm guessing 32% is off the table at this point.

 

So now, this 10% inflation number. That would take the current 529 to 581. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised at 579-619, possibly even more.

 

But that aside, TM is a publicly held corporation, no ? The CEO and other officers are beholden ONLY to their stockholders, no ? So if sales are roughly the same and costs are roughly the same (unlikely as we know), then profits would be the same. Not so ?

 

And what corporate officers are going to please their stockholders with the same return year after year ? Not many, right ?

 

So if inflation goes up 6% they HAVE to increase their prices MORE than 6% to make more money and show larger returns to please their stockholders. And keep their jobs.

 

As you yourself pointed out earlier they raised prices every year even though inflation was little more than less flat. That was price gouging too ? Or was that just good business ?

 

Of course they have to please their customers as well, never mind their employees, who ALL want raises. Kind of a delicate balancing act, no ?

 

As for "price gouging",,,,,,, as mentioned by someone else I think that's not a great evaluation of the situation. As for a real life example I'll give you part of the Flori-duh's State's Attorney General's page on the subject.

 

Now of course they don't attach any hard numbers to it. "A price is presumed to be unconscionable if: (1) there is a gross disparity between the price charged during the state of emergency and the average price during the 30 days before the state of emergency or (2) the price grossly exceeds the average price the same or similar commodity was available in the trade area during the 30 days before the declaration of the state of emergency, unless the seller can justify the price by showing increases in its costs or market trends. Examples of necessary commodities for storm events are food, water, ice, gas, lodging and lumber"

 

Seems to me golf clubs wouldn't be included. And there's no "state of emergency" being discussed here either.

 

Now we could argue discuss it until the cows come home but I don't think 10%, "only" 4% higher than the 6% inflation rate would be considered "grossly exceeding the average/previous price".

 

Your thoughts ?

 

 

 

I Have been told I am beating a dead horse on this.  You are the one not letting this drop.  I don't have the time or energy to teach you rudimentary economics on this site.  Let's just agree to disagree on this subject.  Just quit quoting me!!!

[Red4282]

17 hours ago, Gorham1 said:

When my keyboard failed I was saying if the price increase is $170 or 32%, then yes I am pissed.

 

TM (and other golf OEMs) have had 10%+ price increases over the past several years.  I am working off of memory, so excuse any errors.

 

Orig. M2   $299

M2    $349

M4    $399

M6    $449

SIM   $499

SIM2  $529

 

These increases were much higher than the general rate of inflation for these years (range of 1.5% to 3.0%).  Said another way, TM has been building their profit margins over this period of time.

 

The U.S. government has stated that the general rate of inflation is expected to be a little under 6% for 2021.  This general rate of inflation includes all materials, fuel, labor, etc. I do not know TMs specific cost structure, so I am somewhat speculating.  Much of their labor costs are in China/Asia.  I suspect China is not experiencing the labor increases we are seeing.

 

I highly doubt that TMs cost increases are anywhere close to the 32% as stated in the expected price increase.  I would expect TM to eat some of the cost increases to protect their customers.

 

So yes, I stand by my comment of anything over a 10% price increase is price gouging.  Remember, the 10% is almost double the general rate of inflation.

 

I welco9me any constructive discussions we can have.

Sorry, for a finance guy, that is completely silly to say. You dont know WHY there would be a price increase over 10%. Now if it was a huge price hike on it  like 4 weeks after release and is selling like hotcakes, maybe u could say that….. but Like mentioned before their could be a new material or process that is very expensive. Id say that would justify the hike.  Also in the golf industry, “gouging” doesnt really exist. I mean look at what pxg did when they first came out. Or take the autoflex shaft. Make some arbitrary claim about a material and slap a huge price tag on it and people will fight over it.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Red4282

[Red4282]

3 hours ago, grm24 said:

 

Here is a great article from 1996 from the si.com vault on new fangled titanium drivers. Most people won't actually bother to read any of it since most people adults included today have the attention span of an eye blink. Even that might be overstating it. This article really should be read by many here. I won't hold my breath that anybody here actually takes the time to read it. Lots of good information in it. Shame the TL;DR crowd will ignore it. 🤣🤣🤣

 

https://vault.si.com/vault/1996/02/12/titanium-drivers-made-of-this-space-age-metal-may-be-more-accurate-and-longer-theyre-surely-costlier

 

A RAM driver available for $1,000.00 dollars. Wait what????? RAM at one time was a very respected OEM.

 

This barrier (sound) however, was broken quietly, indoors and without warning, when Ram Golf president Jim Hansberger--wearing a coat and tie instead of the traditional fireproof jumpsuit--introduced the Ram FX Ti-Forged oversize titanium driver. Suggested retail price: $1,000. Doh!

 

Think 46" driver lengths are a recent thing? Nope.

 

Over at Mizuno, on the other hand, engineers have joined an oversize titanium head to a daunting, 46-inch shaft and are pushing the proposition that titanium adds yards. "We're in the distance business," explains Mizuno club designer and PGA Tour player Harry Taylor. "If you want accuracy, take a short shaft and pop it down the fairway."

 

Here are some iron and driver prices from 1996. Enjoy.

 

DRIVERS*

Maruman Titus Titan $1,200
PRGR SD 1,050
Ram FX Ti-Forged 1,000
Mizuno T-Zoid 650
Echelon B2B 599
Callaway Great Big Bertha 500
Cleveland VAS 500
Confidence Golf 260 Ti 500
Dynacraft Super Ti 500
Nicklaus Air Bear 500
Gary Player Black Knight 499
Founders Club Judge 475
HOGAN Edge GCD 460
Rainbow Sealed Power 450
Rawlings FT-190 450
Yonex Super ADX 450
Lynx Black Cat 435
Adams Air Assault 420
Daiwa Exceler 415
Taylor Made Titanium Bubble 400
Kunnan EXT 395
Titleist SS Howitzer 375
Tommy Armour 855 Tommy Gun 375
Cobra King Cobra Ti 367
Pro Group PHD 360
Magique Gold Cactus 350
ryobi-Toski Czar 350
Cubic Balance Mega-Size Grooveless 330
Bridgestone Precept 299
Wilson Invex 299
MacGregor VIP 285
Spalding TF Intimidator 285
Mitsushiba MTS 259
Golfsmith Ti-250 250
Tiger Shark Ti Shark 250
Bullet Invincible Jumbo 225
Pro Select Prism 199
Powerbilt T-Minus 125

 

IRONS (Set of 8)*

Daiwa G-3 Titan $3,200
Maruman Titus WA-2 3,000
Ray Cook Titanic 1,672
Mizuno TI 22 1,665
Yonex Super ADX 1,600
ryobi-Toski Czar 1,500
Maruman M301 T 1,350
Rainbow Sealed Power Ti 1,200
Estusa Maverick 1,040
Rainbow Boomer Ti 960
Golfsmith Extreme Impact 840

 

The most prescient point from the end of the article is from Pings John Solheim. It so holds true today but it's lost on most golfers here and elsewhere. Let's leave him with the last word.

 

As Ping's John Solheim says, "The biggest technical innovation is to get a better golf swing."

 

Preach it.

Excellent work. Kinda rings true with what i remember over the years. Fact is the big golf recession of 2010-2019 kept prices very low. Its exploding now and so are prices

[Gorham1]

1 hour ago, Red4282 said:

Sorry, for a finance guy, that is completely silly to say. You dont know WHY there would be a price increase over 10%. Now if it was a huge price hike on it  like 4 weeks after release and is selling like hotcakes, maybe u could say that….. but Like mentioned before their could be a new material or process that is very expensive. Id say that would justify the hike.  Also in the golf industry, “gouging” doesnt really exist. I mean look at what pxg did when they first came out. Or take the autoflex shaft. Make some arbitrary claim about a material and slap a huge price tag on it and people will fight over it.

This year by itself does not bother me.  It is the cumulative effect of what TM has done over the past 5 or 6 years from a pricing standpoint.  The cumulative effect constitutes price gouging.  There may be reasons for a single year as you said (i.e. new expensive materials, etc).

 

PXG is a boutique company with a small market share.  If TM wants to go down that road they certainly can.  I believe they would be smarter starting a second high end brand and keeping the mainstream brand where it is.  Kind of like Toyota and Lexus.

 

I have been told on this forum that I am beating a dead horse.  People don't want to hear this anymore.  I am not continuing this conversation on this forum.  If anyone wants to discuss this, send me your personal email and I will be happy to discuss outside of this forum.

 

I stand by my comments and if 2022 driver models sell for $599 or less I will buy one.  That is my choice.  I can certainly afford a more expensive driver, but choose not to.  It is out of principle.  It is your choice to purchase the 2022 driver at $700, $800 or $1,000.  It is your choice to do what you want to with your money.

[JohnKHawk]

I buy a handful of "new to me" drivers every year. I will not pay sticker price for a new driver unless it's under $400. I generally find them used for considerably less & in mint condition too. $600 for a driver just seems a little on the high side. Will be interesting to see how well the market tolerates it. PXG already went there a few years back & right now their newest driver which came out 7 or 8 months ago is $299.00

[CKalma]

Good Lawd! People getting tired of each and there ain't snow on the ground yet! 

[Bdck]

13 hours ago, grm24 said:

Great recall. From a 2017 article. It was a Mizuno Pro 300S.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/vijay-singhs-driver-from-the-2000-masters-is-a-must-see

 

According to the PGA Value Guide, the club debuted at retail in 2001 and carried an initial MSRP of $900. The head was forged from four pieces of beta titanium—something that would not difficult to achieve today, but was considered cutting edge at the time. Unfortunately, all that technology means little today. The club’s trade-in value is pegged at a mere $14.

 

 

Oh nooooo the Mizuno pro script again.  Nobody panic 😭

[nsxguy]

On 11/3/2021 at 2:41 PM, Gorham1 said:

I welco9me any constructive discussions we can have.

 

14 hours ago, Gorham1 said:

I Have been told I am beating a dead horse on this.  You are the one not letting this drop.  I don't have the time or energy to teach you rudimentary economics on this site.  Let's just agree to disagree on this subject.  Just quit quoting me!!!

 

Once more and I'm done. Here. In THIS thread YOU get the last word.

 

You've got 20 posts on the site and all but FOUR are on this ONE thread.

 

You spout some silliness about price gouging, mix up other numbers right and left and when called on it and/or simply asked to explain, you can't back it and go to the insults again and say "leave me alone".

 

So you say you "welco9me any constructive discussions we can have". So I make a general post recapping issues and asking for your opinion(s) and/or clarification.

 

And instead of discussing anything you insult me again(?) with a condescending remark about teaching rudimentary economics and not having time,,,,,,,,,,,,,, all evidence in this thread to the contrary. LOL

 

Got it.

 

Out !!!

 

 

[kekoa]

So I ask my 11 yr old son if he knows anything about the 2022 TM driver.  He's like yah dad is going to be called the Burnr 🤐.  No idea where he finds this info.  

[HISPL]

10 minutes ago, kekoa said:

So I ask my 11 yr old son if he knows anything about the 2022 TM driver.  He's like yah dad is going to be called the Burnr 🤐.  No idea where he finds this info.  

 This thread if you look closely 😉

[Gorham1]

9 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

Once more and I'm done. Here. In THIS thread YOU get the last word.

 

You've got 20 posts on the site and all but FOUR are on this ONE thread.

 

You spout some silliness about price gouging, mix up other numbers right and left and when called on it and/or simply asked to explain, you can't back it and go to the insults again and say "leave me alone".

 

So you say you "welco9me any constructive discussions we can have". So I make a general post recapping issues and asking for your opinion(s) and/or clarification.

 

And instead of discussing anything you insult me again(?) with a condescending remark about teaching rudimentary economics and not having time,,,,,,,,,,,,,, all evidence in this thread to the contrary. LOL

 

Got it.

 

Out !!!

 

 

Give me your email address and I will gladly address your statements.  I have never attacked you.  You questioned my qualifications yet have never given us yours.  I am now retired so I can take on this project.  I am sure you will get the last word in.

[getair23]

On 11/4/2021 at 12:54 AM, grm24 said:

When the TM R510TP was released it sold for $600.00 or higher in 2003. With inflation factored in that's nearly equivalent to $900.00 today. As for some fairway wood prices today the Tour Edge Exotics CB1 and CB2 fairway woods retailed for $349.99 in 2004/2005. Everything old is new again. 

 

 

 

That OG TP logo was worth every penny.

[BCC1898]

On 11/3/2021 at 9:37 PM, nsxguy said:

 

OK, great. Let's have some constructive discussion without any name calling.

 

I would love to hear comments from someone who is clearly expert in these topics; keeping in mind that the author of this post has only a rudimentary knowledge of the financial world and nowhere near the experience you have in the field.

 

Firstly, this 32% number. Now I haven't re-read the first 10 pages all over again but I believe the the $800 figure was Canadian dollars. So the $170 difference you mention in this post would take the SIM2 from 529 to 699 (not 799). So that confuses me a bit. I'm guessing 32% is off the table at this point.

 

So now, this 10% inflation number. That would take the current 529 to 581. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised at 579-619, possibly even more.

 

But that aside, TM is a publicly held corporation, no ? The CEO and other officers are beholden ONLY to their stockholders, no ? So if sales are roughly the same and costs are roughly the same (unlikely as we know), then profits would be the same. Not so ?

 

And what corporate officers are going to please their stockholders with the same return year after year ? Not many, right ?

 

So if inflation goes up 6% they HAVE to increase their prices MORE than 6% to make more money and show larger returns to please their stockholders. And keep their jobs.

 

As you yourself pointed out earlier they raised prices every year even though inflation was little more than less flat. That was price gouging too ? Or was that just good business ?

 

Of course they have to please their customers as well, never mind their employees, who ALL want raises. Kind of a delicate balancing act, no ?

 

As for "price gouging",,,,,,, as mentioned by someone else I think that's not a great evaluation of the situation. As for a real life example I'll give you part of the Flori-duh's State's Attorney General's page on the subject.

 

Now of course they don't attach any hard numbers to it. "A price is presumed to be unconscionable if: (1) there is a gross disparity between the price charged during the state of emergency and the average price during the 30 days before the state of emergency or (2) the price grossly exceeds the average price the same or similar commodity was available in the trade area during the 30 days before the declaration of the state of emergency, unless the seller can justify the price by showing increases in its costs or market trends. Examples of necessary commodities for storm events are food, water, ice, gas, lodging and lumber"

 

Seems to me golf clubs wouldn't be included. And there's no "state of emergency" being discussed here either.

 

Now we could argue discuss it until the cows come home but I don't think 10%, "only" 4% higher than the 6% inflation rate would be considered "grossly exceeding the average/previous price".

 

Your thoughts ?

 

 

 

Please go away or start your own thread about the subject you’re discussing. I’m sure participation will be through the roof. 🙄👋