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Anyone Have An Idea of What TM’s Driver Plans Are for 2022?


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49 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

 


Yeah the problem is that people have been saying this about approaching a wall for years. Every single release will have some version of this comment (especially TM threads) and yet with every single release we'll see some form of incremental improvement. Sometimes its a pretty lateral move that doesn't register much, other times its a noticeable jump. The SIM was one of those jumps, as was the M1/M2 when they debuted, but the G400 lineup for PING, TS lineup for Titleist etc etc, hence some people sticking with them through multiple cycles. Every year the manufacturers promise us all fillet mignon, and the fact that it usually isn't has people jump to the opposite extreme and say the ridiculous things like "its just a new paintjob" or "drivers have been maxed out since 2006" etc etc as though we are getting nothing. In reality it ranges from ground beef to a decent ribeye and the key is ignoring the marketing and the hype and letting time reveal where things shake out.   

And that is the very reason they should release non conforming clubs! 

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13 minutes ago, JasonDurham2020 said:

And that is the very reason they should release non conforming clubs! 

i see no reason why a 70 year old playing his last years on the course wouldn't benefit from a juiced up driver with a 0.890 corr or something like that. I dont think it hurts the game of golf. If anything it helps the amatures who have 0 ambition to strictly follow rules or are too old to play anything but a pitch and putt course. And a TM non conforming club wouldnt have the credability issues of a random walmart special 500cc jumbo driver nobody has ever heard of. 

 

Anyone playing tournaments or competitively with a handicap can simply choose not to use the non conforming clubs, just as they do right now.

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4 hours ago, Laznasty said:

For those of you lucky enough to test the new driver, did TM go into any detail about why they chose a carbon face or what it does better than previous models?

 

It hasn't been answered by TM yet for this club, but others have already made mention.  It's going to be mainly the same story as moving away from titanium on the crown and sole: lighter face so now they have more discretionary weight to put elsewhere in the head.

 

Perhaps we'll also hear about being able to produce more interesting geometry behind the face for better ball speed retention, but this sort of move seems primarily about further refining weight distribution in the head.

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41 minutes ago, JasonDurham2020 said:

And that is the very reason they should release non conforming clubs! 

I think if there was a market for them to sell non conforming clubs, they'd be selling non conforming clubs.  I know it's been a while, but Callaway tried that once and I don't think it sold very well.  At the end of the day, I have a feeling there aren't that many golfers out there that would play them honestly.  Just my opinion that it's not some large unlocked market segment. 

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The new line will be called the Taylormade Stealth, TM is moving away from the titanium face and replacing it with a multilayered carbon fiber face. Prices will go up roughly $100 from SIM2 to Stealth, all black top and a pretty sweet bottom. 
 

Club performs similar to the SIM2 except noticeably faster club head speeds and rpm’s. Very nice club. 

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2 hours ago, Valtiel said:

 


Yeah the problem is that people have been saying this about approaching a wall for years. Every single release will have some version of this comment (especially TM threads) and yet with every single release we'll see some form of incremental improvement. Sometimes its a pretty lateral move that doesn't register much, other times its a noticeable jump. The SIM was one of those jumps, as was the M1/M2 when they debuted, but the G400 lineup for PING, TS lineup for Titleist etc etc, hence some people sticking with them through multiple cycles. Every year the manufacturers promise us all fillet mignon, and the fact that it usually isn't has people jump to the opposite extreme and say the ridiculous things like "its just a new paintjob" or "drivers have been maxed out since 2006" etc etc as though we are getting nothing. In reality it ranges from ground beef to a decent ribeye and the key is ignoring the marketing and the hype and letting time reveal where things shake out.   

Great points and I very much agree. The past 7-8 years I’ve tried many drivers every spring and I pick up a yard here, and two there. Small improvement but improvement and I’m not getting younger but getting slowly longer. Biggest thing is my dispersion improves every year. I honestly cannot believe how straight the driver goes now. Growing up with persimmon and balata and how much curve those could produce to today it’s not even the same game. The drivers are improving even though the differences are incremental and small. 

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1 hour ago, radiman said:

I think if there was a market for them to sell non conforming clubs, they'd be selling non conforming clubs.  I know it's been a while, but Callaway tried that once and I don't think it sold very well.  At the end of the day, I have a feeling there aren't that many golfers out there that would play them honestly.  Just my opinion that it's not some large unlocked market segment. 

The callaway ERC line was junk, you still had to swing over 105 to benefit and even then the club was just over the limit and some were not as hot as a standard VFT. That is why the older Japan clubs were so much better years ago. They did not conform to the USGA rules and were hotter cor clubs. The market is prime for a club that would really work and not just make claims. This new face would allow them to tune that club up over .900 cor and really give amateur golfers a better experience on the course.

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World’s Hottest Drivers

 

They have been in business for many years now.  They provide a CNC machine service where they will make the driver as hot as possible (based on your swing speed) by machining the face.  I have owned a couple of their drivers.  They categorically do work!   Even for really slow swing players.  My dad used one, he was 88 and he was probably swinging at 65 mph.

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54 minutes ago, ctv1 said:

World’s Hottest Drivers

 

They have been in business for many years now.  They provide a CNC machine service where they will make the driver as hot as possible (based on your swing speed) by machining the face.  I have owned a couple of their drivers.  They categorically do work!   Even for really slow swing players.  My dad used one, he was 88 and he was probably swinging at 65 mph.

And crack a face

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3 hours ago, JasonDurham2020 said:

The callaway ERC line was junk, you still had to swing over 105 to benefit and even then the club was just over the limit and some were not as hot as a standard VFT. That is why the older Japan clubs were so much better years ago. They did not conform to the USGA rules and were hotter cor clubs. The market is prime for a club that would really work and not just make claims. This new face would allow them to tune that club up over .900 cor and really give amateur golfers a better experience on the course.

How about you just deal with the challenges of playing golf and stop trying to make the equipment solve your problems 

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12 hours ago, TripleBogeyTrain said:

The new line will be called the Taylormade Stealth, TM is moving away from the titanium face and replacing it with a multilayered carbon fiber face. Prices will go up roughly $100 from SIM2 to Stealth, all black top and a pretty sweet bottom. 
 

Club performs similar to the SIM2 except noticeably faster club head speeds and rpm’s. Very nice club. 

ahhh yes... love getting noticeably faster clubhead speed by simply switching driver heads.. lmao all the guys going to the gym for faster club head speeds are dumbasses

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41 minutes ago, Shaqlemore said:

ahhh yes... love getting noticeably faster clubhead speed by simply switching driver heads.. lmao all the guys going to the gym for faster club head speeds are dumbasses

They’re another Taylormade employee spamming the forum I reckon. Been a few of them last few days that are completely new members and only post once in this thread but don’t tell us anything new.

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3 hours ago, Shaqlemore said:

ahhh yes... love getting noticeably faster clubhead speed by simply switching driver heads.. lmao all the guys going to the gym for faster club head speeds are dumbasses

Always thought being a gym owner would be strange. Its like you're a business man but feel shady at the same time ? You mean people will pay me their hard-earned money to come in and lift heavy weights ? Hmmm....

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21 hours ago, Laznasty said:

For those of you lucky enough to test the new driver, did TM go into any detail about why they chose a carbon face or what it does better than previous models?

Players who tested it (tour pros) are getting 4-8 mph more ball speed off the face. A regular non tour pro (but very good golfers) had said 4-6 mph for him. The tour pro stats is what TM is claiming, the 4-6 is what the player whom I know who hit are saying.

 

edited for context

Edited by Long Shot
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35 minutes ago, Long Shot said:

Players who tested it (tour pros) are getting 4-8 mph more ball speed off the face. A regular non tour pro (but very good golfers) had said 4-6 mph for him. The tour pro stats is what TM is claiming, the 4-6 is what the player whom I know who hit are saying.

 

edited for context

The tour numbers were from a rep I assume?  Likely going to be their marketing numbers they use?

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11 minutes ago, radiman said:

The tour numbers were from a rep I assume?  Likely going to be their marketing numbers they use?

Exactly, not a chance everyone will get those kind of increases, no way! What did they compare it against?

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2 minutes ago, jaffabell88 said:

Exactly, not a chance everyone will get those kind of increases, no way! What did they compare it against?

Oh, I get that 100%.  I plan on playing this club.  I do not expect 4-6mph more ball speed.  But, with the radical change in face material, I think there is an opportunity for incremental improvements.  Especially if ball speed retention across the face is true.  That alone would be huge.  Slight miss hit that goes as far as a centered strike?  Yes please haha. 

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16 minutes ago, Long Shot said:

Players who tested it (tour pros) are getting 4-8 mph more ball speed off the face. A few regular (but very good golfers) had said 4-6 mph. 

Those numbers sound pretty inflated... I could easily see a 4-6mph increase for average golfers that have been using a poorly fit driver/shaft combo, but not for professionals that have maxed out everything they possibly can because this is their livelihood. I'd love to be wrong though because that's great for everyone, so I'm really excited for the deets, pics, and reviews in the coming weeks. How many more sleeps TM?

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6 minutes ago, Laznasty said:

Those numbers sound pretty inflated... I could easily see a 4-6mph increase for average golfers that have been using a poorly fit driver/shaft combo, but not for professionals that have maxed out everything they possibly can because this is their livelihood. I'd love to be wrong though because that's great for everyone, so I'm really excited for the deets, pics, and reviews in the coming weeks. How many more sleeps TM?

I am skeptical, but honestly you have to be when taking in a lot of OEM marketing.  But, I do still wonder about how carbon works vs titanium.  Since the COR test is basically dropping a metal ball from a short distance on the face, will a carbon face react differently on full swings than a titanium face?  Theoretically, they can possibly make a face that passes the COR test but still produces more ball speed.  Not saying it's the case.  But, who knows, it hasn't been done in modern drivers.  AI and deep learning computers have changed the game in engineering.  

 

 

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5 minutes ago, hoselshot82 said:

so how long before the other OEMs adopt this new tech? Perhaps why we haven’t heard of a g425 replacement. 

I think it depends on if they have to play catch up or not.  

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4 minutes ago, TheMoneyShot said:

I seen somewhere that TM has like a 3 year window on this tech before everyone else jumps on the train.  Who knows how accurate that is???

They could be that far ahead with technology but I doubt it.  If the company that makes the materials for them has something proprietary they may have them tied up for three years but as big as composites is right now it'll take someone a couple weeks to replicate it.

 

If this works it will be a game changer for the manufacturing process.  Titanium is a nightmare to work with and a headache to source so if TM can finally make a composite face work the other OEMs will be lining up to follow them.

 

The Callaway C4 had three problems: it was nearly impossible to reshaft, it delaminated easily in the elements, and it sounded bad.  The onset of adjustable heads cured the first one and twenty years of technology should solve the second so I'm interested to see how they get the sound/feel right.

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Went into a local shop this weekend and asked around to see if any of the staff had a chance to hit it yet. According the a few of the employees a TM rep had been in the week prior and gave the entire staff the chance to hit it. 2 employees mentioned that they took their gamer shafts out of their SIM2 and swapped them into the new head. One claimed 4 more MPH of ball speed and the other claimed 3mph. They claimed they used GCQuad to measure strike location and found that speed gain on like for like shots. 

 

Early days and hard to tell but we shall see. The one claiming 4mph said he gained on average 12 more yards of carry.

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