Anyone Have An Idea of What TM’s Driver Plans Are for 2022?

[ImplicitZen]

9 minutes ago, PowerPlayer said:

I tend to get a new head every year as they are released. To be fair, by this time of the year I'd have hit 15k to 20k balls with Driver at 120+. I practice every day and play 3 times/week on average. Not on TM at all. I'm just an outlier. 

I wish I had this much time to devote to golf. I Practice every other day and try to play every weekend.

[Chief Penguin]

Anybody gone back to the thread on what we later learned was the OG Sim in late 2019 and compared the claims on forgiveness and ball speed?

 

I’m sure it’ll be a great driver and I’ll probably upgrade from my M5 but if the increases were what the gossip says, you could hit 180 ball speed with a 115 swing speed by now.

[TiScape]

18 hours ago, Rippin6Gears said:

So exciting 

Uh, thanks I guess… Lol. What’s the point of posting this??? For all we know that’s a M2! 🤣 Reminds me of when I was a kid and discovered the scrambled cable porn channel! 😜

[Viper4225]

3 hours ago, ImplicitZen said:

I wish I had this much time to devote to golf. I Practice every other day and try to play every weekend.

 

LOL I wish I had THIS much time (and weather) to devote to golf. I practice twice a week, and play twice a month (weather permitting). 

 

 

[noodle3872]

1 hour ago, Viper4225 said:

 

LOL I wish I had THIS much time (and weather) to devote to golf. I practice twice a week, and play twice a month (weather permitting). 

 

 

Your golf priorities are backwards, practice twice a month, play twice a week. 

[scotty_2987]

[Gary Gutful]

20 hours ago, getitdaily said:

 

Here's your answer...

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/Wa2GBXoqdb5ADFhw7

Look if I can gain 5mph ball speed, I'm reluctant to rule it out.

[Gary Gutful]

On 11/30/2021 at 8:29 AM, TripleBogeyTrain said:

Club performs similar to the SIM2 except noticeably faster club head speeds and rpm’s.

So it performs differently?

[Gary Gutful]

On 12/1/2021 at 1:11 AM, Long Shot said:

Players who tested it (tour pros) are getting 4-8 mph more ball speed off the face. A regular non tour pro (but very good golfers) had said 4-6 mph for him. The tour pro stats is what TM is claiming, the 4-6 is what the player whom I know who hit are saying.

 

edited for context

Sounds like a long shot.

[Gary Gutful]

17 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

Man what else are you hitting with the face of that club, is that a demo driver? I've been hitting my OG SimMAX the same amount of time and it has virtually no permanent marks on it.

 

 

Looks like he's been using it to club seals.

[StillCantPutt]

Have heard from 3 people that have all hit the club, all 3 reside in different parts of the country. All 3 have said the same thing, ball speed increase with the new driver. Just sayin’. 

[Cousin]

Pardon if this was discussed already - long thread and I did not read every entry.

 

CT is limited by USGA and R&A, and current drivers are already at the limit (with tolerances) for center strikes.  Maybe a manufacturer could reduce tolerances to make all clubs within, say 2% of the limit instead of a 5% range (example numbers, I don't know their tolerances currently).  I thought I heard that Tour use club heads are tested individually to be as close to the limit as possible anyway, so those tolerances don't matter for Tour players.  Maybe I am wrong there.

 

Anyway, if last year's clubs are at the limit and the next club is at the limit, I don't see how you can get more ball speed.  When a strike is off center, the trampoline effect of the club face is reduced, therefore you get a reduced ball speed.  Maybe this tech is about making the CT of the face closer to limit for more of the face than just center strikes?  We are all human, so we all miss the center of the face, so I definitely see where that will help if that is in fact what is being done.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Cousin
Mis-spoke on optimizing shaft for ball speed - shaft will optimize flight

[noodle3872]

12 minutes ago, Cousin said:

Pardon if this was discussed already - long thread and I did not read every entry.

 

CT is limited by USGA and R&A, and current drivers are already at the limit (with tolerances) for center strikes.  Maybe a manufacturer could reduce tolerances to make all clubs within, say 2% of the limit instead of a 5% range (example numbers, I don't know their tolerances currently).  I thought I heard that Tour use club heads are tested individually to be as close to the limit as possible anyway, so those tolerances don't matter for Tour players.  Maybe I am wrong there.

 

Anyway, if last year's clubs are at the limit and the next club is at the limit, I don't see how you can get more ball speed.  When a strike is off center, the trampoline effect of the club face is reduced, therefore you get a reduced ball speed.  Maybe this tech is about making the CT of the face closer to limit for more of the face than just center strikes?  We are all human, so we all miss the center of the face, so I definitely see where that will help if that is in fact what is being done.

Your summary is exactly what people are thinking too. If the high toe area of the carbon face produces the same ball speed as a center strike, that should in theory yield more distance since high toe generally produce knuckle balls.
 

The big question is whether this face is producing 3-5 mph more ball speed. 

[btyh]

21 minutes ago, Cousin said:

Pardon if this was discussed already - long thread and I did not read every entry.

 

CT is limited by USGA and R&A, and current drivers are already at the limit (with tolerances) for center strikes.  Maybe a manufacturer could reduce tolerances to make all clubs within, say 2% of the limit instead of a 5% range (example numbers, I don't know their tolerances currently).  I thought I heard that Tour use club heads are tested individually to be as close to the limit as possible anyway, so those tolerances don't matter for Tour players.  Maybe I am wrong there.

 

Anyway, if last year's clubs are at the limit and the next club is at the limit, I don't see how you can get more ball speed.  When a strike is off center, the trampoline effect of the club face is reduced, therefore you get a reduced ball speed.  Maybe this tech is about making the CT of the face closer to limit for more of the face than just center strikes?  We are all human, so we all miss the center of the face, so I definitely see where that will help if that is in fact what is being done.

Exactly, but some people are saying pros are getting more ball speed on centered strikes. Only thing I can think of is lighter head, club head speed, result of faster ball speeds.

[BirdieBob]

Maybe Taylormade's standard length for their new driver is maxed out at 46"...up from 45.75".

That could result in a higher club speed/ball speed!

😁

Edited December 2, 2021 by BirdieBob

[Double Dodger]

On 11/30/2021 at 6:44 PM, geakins said:

Wonder how many we will see on BST saying "Trying to sell so I can buy a LTDX" 😁. Don't judge.... but I will have one of each! 

 

and I will try them when you sell….

[noodle3872]

1 hour ago, btyh said:

Exactly, but some people are saying pros are getting more ball speed on centered strikes. Only thing I can think of is lighter head, club head speed, result of faster ball speeds.

Except CT is still a measurement of energy return so wouldn’t more ball speed from a center strike mean the club is above the allowable CT limit? 

[mogc60]

12 minutes ago, noodle3872 said:

Except CT is still a measurement of energy return so wouldn’t more ball speed from a center strike mean the club is above the allowable CT limit? 

There is way more to ball speed than just CT. It’s a factor yes, and it’s been maxed out for a long time but manufacturers through weight distribution and controlling launch conditions can increase ball speed. They are way smarter than me obviously but I’ve seen SMALL increases every year for about 5 years and I’m 5 years older and not a gym rat. 

[taylorx300]

Here’s a thought regarding ball speed / CT. Think about a ball and it’s shore rating / compression. Assume you have three balls all rated at 90 but ball 1 is a solid core, ball 2 is a two piece core and ball 3 is a premium 3,4,5 piece core. Will the premium ball fly further? If you compress the layers of the core, they want to get back to round as fast a possible.

So you now have a solid thin titanium face that passes a 257 limit CT test. The collision with the ball will push the face in and it will want to get back to normal. As reported in this thread (rumor?) the new face is some sort of carbon material with more than one layer.  I’m sure TM would build it to pass the 257 limit CT test. But will more than one layer flex in more therefore create more trampoline effect / speed like the multiple core golf ball?

Just wondering a little.

[mogc60]

5 hours ago, StillCantPutt said:

Have heard from 3 people that have all hit the club, all 3 reside in different parts of the country. All 3 have said the same thing, ball speed increase with the new driver. Just sayin’. 

The guy at my local shop said yesterday he hit it and said the ball speed was up 3mph over his driver. He said the sound is very good and that it’s a very good looking head. 

[noodle3872]

3 minutes ago, mogc60 said:

There is way more to ball speed than just CT. It’s a factor yes, and it’s been maxed out for a long time but manufacturers through weight distribution and controlling launch conditions can increase ball speed. They are way smarter than me obviously but I’ve seen SMALL increases every year for about 5 years and I’m 5 years older and not a gym rat. 

CT is limited. Ball velocity is limited. This is where I’m struggling to understand; how can more ball speed be achieved with these limits in place. If TM is able to separate launch and spin further than they have previously, then I’m guessing any gain realized is from higher launch with lower spin which means every ball is a that much closer to a knuckle ball. 
 

I’m happy with my Callaway gear but as a golf nut that loves tech stories, this one has me intrigued. 

[radiman]

9 minutes ago, taylorx300 said:

Here’s a thought regarding ball speed / CT. Think about a ball and it’s shore rating / compression. Assume you have three balls all rated at 90 but ball 1 is a solid core, ball 2 is a two piece core and ball 3 is a premium 3,4,5 piece core. Will the premium ball fly further? If you compress the layers of the core, they want to get back to round as fast a possible.

So you now have a solid thin titanium face that passes a 257 limit CT test. The collision with the ball will push the face in and it will want to get back to normal. As reported in this thread (rumor?) the new face is some sort of carbon material with more than one layer.  I’m sure TM would build it to pass the 257 limit CT test. But will more than one layer flex in more therefore create more trampoline effect / speed like the multiple core golf ball?

Just wondering a little.

This is kind of what I have been trying to elude to, but not as well as this haha.  If, and a really big IF, they are somehow able to increase ball speed on center strikes, it would have to be in a way that "fools" the CT test.  Like you said, if only some of the layers flex during the test (which isn't done at high impact speeds), but more layers are reached during a real golf swing, it could theoretically happen. 

[TaylorMade Golf]

4 minutes ago, noodle3872 said:

CT is limited. Ball velocity is limited. This is where I’m struggling to understand; how can more ball speed be achieved with these limits in place. If TM is able to separate launch and spin further than they have previously, then I’m guessing any gain realized is from higher launch with lower spin which means every ball is a that much closer to a knuckle ball. 
 

I’m happy with my Callaway gear but as a golf nut that loves tech stories, this one has me intrigued. 

We have some clever, clever engineers at TaylorMade. When we push boundaries, new doors open.

 

30 ish more sleeps.

 

[BirdieBob]

6 minutes ago, TaylorMade Golf said:

We have some clever, clever engineers at TaylorMade. When we push boundaries, new doors open.

 

30 ish more sleeps.

 

 

Has the USGA given this head an Approval of conformance yet?

If they believe their CT test is being fooled then look out for more stricter testing requirements.

🤔

[mogc60]

17 minutes ago, radiman said:

This is kind of what I have been trying to elude to, but not as well as this haha.  If, and a really big IF, they are somehow able to increase ball speed on center strikes, it would have to be in a way that "fools" the CT test.  Like you said, if only some of the layers flex during the test (which isn't done at high impact speeds), but more layers are reached during a real golf swing, it could theoretically happen. 

This is what they’ve been working to do for years…fool the test. As Taylormade eludes to above they have really bright people working on ways to push every boundary. Every manufacturer is doing it. And every major manufacturer is pushing the limits. Annually these increments are small but I’m a believer that they have already fooled the test in several ways.  I’ve said this a million times…today’s drivers are like cheating! Anyone who played golf 30 years ago can remember how hard it was to hit a driver long and accurate. Modern ball plus driver technology, I can’t believe how easy it is to do both anymore. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by mogc60

[radiman]

Just now, mogc60 said:

This is what they’ve been working to do for years…fool the test. As Taylormade eludes to above they have really bright people working on ways to push every boundary. Annually these increments are small but I’m a believer that they have already fooled the test in several ways.  I’ve said this a million times…today’s drivers are like cheating! Anyone who played golf 30 years ago can remember how hard it was to hit a driver long and accurate. Modern ball plus driver technology, I can’t believe how easy it is to do both anymore. 

Haha, within the rules and equivalent to what everyone else is using.  Besides, if I struggle to hit fairways now, I would hate to have to play with lesser gear haha.   

[btyh]

45 minutes ago, noodle3872 said:

Except CT is still a measurement of energy return so wouldn’t more ball speed from a center strike mean the club is above the allowable CT limit? 

No clue lol. All these driver are plus 5 every year. It's that magical tech. 

[wcbjr]

26 minutes ago, BirdieBob said:

 

Has the USGA given this head an Approval of conformance yet?

If they believe their CT test is being fooled then look out for more stricter testing requirements.

🤔

 

Nope, not yet.

 

https://www.usga.org/equipment-standards/conforming-club-ball-lists.html

 

 

[mogc60]

10 minutes ago, wcbjr said:

 

Nope, not yet.

 

https://www.usga.org/equipment-standards/conforming-club-ball-lists.html

 

 

I’m sure it’s approved. I’m guessing Taylormade has a non disclosure with the USGA as well. When they release pics and info it will be on the list

[jll62]

48 minutes ago, wcbjr said:

 

Nope, not yet.

 

https://www.usga.org/equipment-standards/conforming-club-ball-lists.html

 

 

 

This only means it hasn't been published to the list yet, not that it hasn't been approved or that TaylorMade wasn't in communication with the USGA as development on the new driver occurred. New drivers go onto this list when OEMs are ready for them to be public knowledge.

 

Back in 2018 when I had a chance to speak with some of the TM folks about the M5 and the new speed injection process, they pointed out that they were talking to the USGA early in the development cycle to ensure the USGA was satisfied with the new construction and there wouldn't be any issues down the road. I'm 100% positive the same thing would have occurred with the upcoming driver.